Who Has Been To The Rio Grande Valley

[Rio Grande Valley]

I just want to know who has been to deep south Texas, where did you go, what do you see, and your opinions of RGV.

[editor]

I was there a few years ago, though probably not the part you're thinking of. I was in Pecos, Del Rio, and the surrounding area.

Nice area. Very quiet. But a lot more interesting than I thought it would be. I spent a couple of hours sitting on a boulder at the bottom of a gorge in the Amistad National Recreation Area watching wild goats climb up and down the cliffs. It was very cool.

Also, there was a McDonald's in one of the towns nearby that was built like an old western farmhouse.

[Rio Grande Valley]

Hey, I used to live in Del Rio several years ago. I have family there and Eagle Pass also.

[Scotch]

I've been there.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

I've been to the Valley for a funeral. Edinburgh to be exact. We didn't know the deceased, but we drove a friend down to the Valley for the funeral. Had a good time at the wake, that's for sure. We crossed into Reynosa for a few hours.

Although these aren't considered the Valley, I've also spent a couple days in Nuevo Laredo. I've also been through Del Rio many times, but never to Acuna. I've walked back and forth across the Rio Grande numerous times into Boquillas del Carmen, and I've been rowed across just as many times. Also been rowed across into Paso Lajitas. Also been to Ojinaga a couple of times. Spent time in hot springs on both banks of the Rio Grande. Camped in a cave a few hundred yards from the Rio Grande near Ruidosa, with DEA patrolling back and forth all night long.

You'd think I would be smart enough to learn Spanish by now...

[TheNiche]

I just want to know who has been to deep south Texas, where did you go, what do you see, and your opinions of RGV.

I've been there...was there for 10 long hard soul-crushing years...just visiting though. Never really 'lived' there...only died a little every day. I consider myself lucky to have made it out of the black hole. Many of my friends made the attempt to escape, but were quickly relegated back to the pit because of their petty familial attatchments.

[lwood]

I've been there...was there for 10 long hard soul-crushing years...just visiting though. Never really 'lived' there...only died a little every day. I consider myself lucky to have made it out of the black hole. Many of my friends made the attempt to escape, but were quickly relegated back to the pit because of their petty familial attatchments.

Thank you. This made my day.

[Modernceo]

I have an employee who is originally from the valley, more specifically Pharr. Hes a great person, but unfortunately, due to the valley being non racially integrated, he had a very narrow minded view on races, other cultures, etc.

Overall though, Ive been to the valley, and it seemed like for the most part, a very quiet, nice place.

Theniche, why did you dislike the valley so much ?

[TheNiche]

I have an employee who is originally from the valley, more specifically Pharr. Hes a great person, but unfortunately, due to the valley being non racially integrated, he had a very narrow minded view on races, other cultures, etc.

Overall though, Ive been to the valley, and it seemed like for the most part, a very quiet, nice place.

Theniche, why did you dislike the valley so much ?

Three reasons, and you've already hit on the first two of them.

1) Although NAFTA has created a growing community of people who have lived north of Falfurrias at some point in their lifetimes, it is still essentially a monocultural place. You only have one employee...I was mired in the midst of hundreds of thousands of like-minded people. When I first got there, there was a large chunk of people that had never even left the RGV...not just kids, but their parents and grandparents. School-sponsored field trips largely took care of that problem among the kids, but repeated journies to Corpus Christi (and the Selena statue) leave a lot to be desired.

2) It is a nice quiet place...to a fault. Nothing happens. Again, that's gotten better with time, but its still a dull place. It's not so bad if you grow up in the RGV because you don't really know what you're missing, but I'd previously lived in Driftwood, Hays County, southwest of Austin. I knew what wasn't available to me. In high school, I discovered that several of my friends' parents had lives that could easily have been transplanted to a Telemundo soap opera. We're talking about some weird stuff, here...think about the possible intermingling of parent/teacher sexual relationships in the classroom afterhours, the use of upstanding people as mules to unknowingly get cocaine across the checkpoint, intermittent suicides, 'specialty' massage parlors , etc. The list goes on.

3) Racism. I've been bumped to the back of lines at grocery stores, pharmacies, and movie theaters, as have my parents and pale-faced friends. I also came to despise the name "White Boy".

There are a lot of other little things too, like the prolonged droughts, the lack of a freeway system (by the way, McAllen is a good example of how suburbs get built with or without freeways to support them), the traffic, the uppity Mexican nationals at La Plaza Mall, and that you almost can't function without the knowledge of at least rudimentary Spanglish...we're not talking about Castillian Spanish, either.

[Modernceo]

I've been there...was there for 10 long hard soul-crushing years...just visiting though. Never really 'lived' there...only died a little every day. I consider myself lucky to have made it out of the black hole. Many of my friends made the attempt to escape, but were quickly relegated back to the pit because of their petty familial attatchments.

Three reasons, and you've already hit on the first two of them.

1) Although NAFTA has created a growing community of people who have lived north of Falfurrias at some point in their lifetimes, it is still essentially a monocultural place. You only have one employee...I was mired in the midst of hundreds of thousands of like-minded people. When I first got there, there was a large chunk of people that had never even left the RGV...not just kids, but their parents and grandparents. School-sponsored field trips largely took care of that problem among the kids, but repeated journies to Corpus Christi (and the Selena statue) leave a lot to be desired.

2) It is a nice quiet place...to a fault. Nothing happens. Again, that's gotten better with time, but its still a dull place. It's not so bad if you grow up in the RGV because you don't really know what you're missing, but I'd previously lived in Driftwood, Hays County, southwest of Austin. I knew what wasn't available to me. In high school, I discovered that several of my friends' parents had lives that could easily have been transplanted to a Telemundo soap opera. We're talking about some weird stuff, here...think about the possible intermingling of parent/teacher sexual relationships in the classroom afterhours, the use of upstanding people as mules to unknowingly get cocaine across the checkpoint, intermittent suicides, 'specialty' massage parlors , etc. The list goes on.

3) Racism. I've been bumped to the back of lines at grocery stores, pharmacies, and movie theaters, as have my parents and pale-faced friends. I also came to despise the name "White Boy".

There are a lot of other little things too, like the prolonged droughts, the lack of a freeway system (by the way, McAllen is a good example of how suburbs get built with or without freeways to support them), the traffic, the uppity Mexican nationals at La Plaza Mall, and that you almost can't function without the knowledge of at least rudimentary Spanglish...we're not talking about Castillian Spanish, either.

Ohhh.

I thought, at first, that you may have been Hispanic (partially because of my stereotype of the area being like 99.9% Hispanic)

I can totally understand your perspective then, with you being white.

What took you/your family to that area ? Business ?

[TheNiche]

Ohhh.

I thought, at first, that you may have been Hispanic (partially because of my stereotype of the area being like 99.9% Hispanic)

I can totally understand your perspective then, with you being white.

What took you/your family to that area ? Business ?

Began my visit in 1992 and 'came home' to Houston in 2002. My dad had a thing for Mexico rooting back to his childhood experiences when it was the true 'land of the free'. He disliked his job in San Marcos and decided, pretty much on a whim, that he was going to move to the border. That was pretty much that. I didn't have any say-so, of course, and didn't really grasp the consequences until after the move.

When he made the move, he was the type of person that thought that he could get along with just about anybody (excluding lawyers)...had an open mind and didn't mind making a few changes to fit in with his new neighbors. It was a 'melting pot' kind of attitude, where he understood that he'd be the minority learning to fit in, and that it could take a while to get settled. He learned a lot of Spanish, even the technical healthcare verbage. My mom, also in healthcare but working for the school district, made a strong effort to find herself a really good close friend. Slowly, over the past 14-15 years, they've come to the realization that they've just been shut out. Whenever my dad is in town and he gets moderately buzzed, he starts off on this subject...how he's known folks down there for years, hung out with them and their families, had people over several times a year for BBQ/Pool/Beer, etc., but never once been invited to a wedding or quintscenera even when all of his Hispanic coworkers are.

So basically, he went there with a very liberal ex-hippie baby-boomer attitude...and now he listens to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, hanging on their every word when it comes to immigration and cultural issues. Kind of sad, really.

[Modernceo]

Began my visit in 1992 and 'came home' to Houston in 2002. My dad had a thing for Mexico rooting back to his childhood experiences when it was the true 'land of the free'. He disliked his job in San Marcos and decided, pretty much on a whim, that he was going to move to the border. That was pretty much that. I didn't have any say-so, of course, and didn't really grasp the consequences until after the move.

When he made the move, he was the type of person that thought that he could get along with just about anybody (excluding lawyers)...had an open mind and didn't mind making a few changes to fit in with his new neighbors. It was a 'melting pot' kind of attitude, where he understood that he'd be the minority learning to fit in, and that it could take a while to get settled. He learned a lot of Spanish, even the technical healthcare verbage. My mom, also in healthcare but working for the school district, made a strong effort to find herself a really good close friend. Slowly, over the past 14-15 years, they've come to the realization that they've just been shut out. Whenever my dad is in town and he gets moderately buzzed, he starts off on this subject...how he's known folks down there for years, hung out with them and their families, had people over several times a year for BBQ/Pool/Beer, etc., but never once been invited to a wedding or quintscenera even when all of his Hispanic coworkers are.

So basically, he went there with a very liberal ex-hippie baby-boomer attitude...and now he listens to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, hanging on their every word when it comes to immigration and cultural issues. Kind of sad, really.

Wow. Amazing story. Thanks for sharing that.

I figured that he had probably moved there for business but boy, I was wrong !

Im glad your in Houston now, where its much more diverse, where there are many more opportunities.

[TheNiche]

Im glad your in Houston now, where its much more diverse, where there are many more opportunities.

As am I. I can't even begin to express how grateful I am to this city.

[Boris]

You should visit the following forum for more information on the RGV. It's actually more diverse than you think when compared to other areas of the same population. But, it's unfair to compare it to cities such as Houston, Dallas, or San Antonio.

http://rgv.7.forumer.com/

[2112]

Niche,

I dont think it is fair to generalize with a broad stroke the entire Valley. Some of what you say is true...There is a lack of many industries, and you pretty much have to leave if you want to do things like engineering, energy, or large scale architecture, etc. etc. And there is a strong Hispanic-based loyalty to the family, and for that reason, many people do not leave. And many of the ones that do, come back. I was one of those that left and did not come back. I was raised in Hidalgo and McAllen until I was 20, and then spent the next 20 years in Houston. Maybe you had a negative experience, and if so that is bad. But I have had my bad experiences in Houston to be sure, but I will not generalize on the entire Houston population because of some bad apples. There are many people in the Valley who are far from what you describe. Several years ago, two of my friends, who are white, went with me to McAllen. They met my hispanic friends and family. They were treated with curtesy and love, almost like family. My friends have nothing but good things to say about McAllen, based on just that one visit. The Mcallen MSA has over 300,000 people at current count, and the Brownsville-Harlingen MSA another. Just by sheer statistics, you dont have to try very hard to find some decent people there.

[TheNiche]

Niche,

I dont think it is fair to generalize with a broad stroke the entire Valley. Some of what you say is true...There is a lack of many industries, and you pretty much have to leave if you want to do things like engineering, energy, or large scale architecture, etc. etc. And there is a strong Hispanic-based loyalty to the family, and for that reason, many people do not leave. And many of the ones that do, come back. I was one of those that left and did not come back. I was raised in Hidalgo and McAllen until I was 20, and then spent the next 20 years in Houston. Maybe you had a negative experience, and if so that is bad. But I have had my bad experiences in Houston to be sure, but I will not generalize on the entire Houston population because of some bad apples. There are many people in the Valley who are far from what you describe. Several years ago, two of my friends, who are white, went with me to McAllen. They met my hispanic friends and family. They were treated with curtesy and love, almost like family. My friends have nothing but good things to say about McAllen, based on just that one visit. The Mcallen MSA has over 300,000 people at current count, and the Brownsville-Harlingen MSA another. Just by sheer statistics, you dont have to try very hard to find some decent people there.

I congradulate you on your successful escape.

Like I'd said though, if you're born and raised in the RGV, it's not nearly so bad as if you move there once you already know what you'd be missing elsewhere. For folks that are already there, there's no perceived downside. But from my perspective, it was hell on earth.

The RGV is the kind of place that is good for the occaisional three-day-or-less visit, but you wouldn't want to go any further than that. Many of my relatives would visit on occaision, and that was pretty much their limit. Any further, and a trip to South Padre would become all but necessary...and even then, you can only tack on another day.

And I don't mean to say that every single person that wasn't me in the RGV was some combination of obnoxious, racist, boring, uneducated, or a criminal. There are a fair number of genuinely kind people out there, and you're right that it isn't too hard to find someone of like mind...but I've always found that its easier in the north. Moreover, the NAFTA jobs started drawing people into town from up north during the late 90's.

Perhaps one day my line of work will force me to go down there, and I can see what has become of what I've come to know as the armpit of Texas...but that terrible day, Baffin Bay is my southern limit.

[deepsouthtexas]

I escaped from a racially-divided, have and have-not demarcated, traffic congested, and criminal infested city called Houston. I am now living comfortably in McAllen, a city with much to offer including professional jobs. These are my opinions. Take some advice. Stop saying things as matter-of-fact, and perhaps people will take a liking to you and your pop. For those who come down to the valley to conduct summer bible study or other charity endeavor, please be advised that we do not need to be saved from ourselves. We live comfortably. We work during the week and relax on the weekend. Such is life everywhere. If you go looking for bad people, you can find them. If you go looking for good people, you can also find them. This is not an exclusive phenomenon to the valley. Actually, in my opinion, I think a few other Texas cities have us beat.

[mrfootball]

I escaped from a racially-divided, have and have-not demarcated, traffic congested, and criminal infested city called Houston.

Cry me a river.

Good lord. The whine is ripe and ready to be picked.

Houston is one of the most racially mixed cities in North America. I challenge you to find a more racially mixed modern city anywhere in Mexico or Latin America. We have people from every nation on this earth living in Houston. As for demarcated...this city isn't demarcated like other Texas Cities (Dallas, Austin, etc) which clearly isolate minorities (are there really any 'minorities' any more) in their own sections of the city (ie. East Austin, South Dallas). Due to the lack of zoning laws, this city is a uniquely disorganized racial fustercluck.

As for criminally infested and traffic...well you can't win them all, now can you?

[deepsouthtexas]

Obviously you don't get far from Cypress much.

[Boris]

"a uniquely disorganized racial fustercluck"

Now that's poetry. I couldn't have said it better myself. I like Houston, as long as the crime is not in my area. I've lived here six years now and it's been the best thing for me and the family.

But as for the Valley, the comments made previously above are just wrong. Though the Valley is not as diverse as Houston, that can be said of every city or area of similar population. The Midland/Odessa area is not as diverse as Houston and does not have as many attractions and things to do. You can easily get bored there. The same is true for Tyler/Longview, Waco, Wichita Falls, Amarillo, Beaumont, etc.

But, the Valley is exploding right now, as is all the border. It's comming along. The people are very friendly and I do not see any more racism there than in any other region of Texas. In fact, it's less if you ask me. I'm from the Valley and I am hispanic, so maybe I'm a little biased. But I do try to be objective in these things. If the Valley folks were truely racist (and it is over 90% hispanic) I don't think a white guy could last two seconds there. But this is not the case.

Rather, tourists and businessmen from the north are flocking to south texas border and shore. Why are they doing this if its so boring and closed minded?

[TheNiche]

I escaped from a racially-divided, have and have-not demarcated, traffic congested, and criminal infested city called Houston. I am now living comfortably in McAllen, a city with much to offer including professional jobs. These are my opinions. Take some advice. Stop saying things as matter-of-fact, and perhaps people will take a liking to you and your pop. For those who come down to the valley to conduct summer bible study or other charity endeavor, please be advised that we do not need to be saved from ourselves. We live comfortably. We work during the week and relax on the weekend. Such is life everywhere. If you go looking for bad people, you can find them. If you go looking for good people, you can also find them. This is not an exclusive phenomenon to the valley. Actually, in my opinion, I think a few other Texas cities have us beat.

Funny, from my own experiences, I'd characterize McAllen as far more deeply "racially-divided, have/have-not demarcated, traffic congested, and criminal infested". I remember having taken a two-week trip up to Houston, then to Austin, then back to McAllen, and coming back into town, I got off of 281, going west on Nolana...I hadn't experienced so little movement in so much time in about two weeks and had gotten used to ease of movement across vast distances. And criminal-infestation...you must not know the half of it. I'm guessing that you probably live in one of the new have/have-not demarcated subdivisions to be so far out-of-the-loop.

My 'pop' is a former hippie...he went there with as open mind as ever existed on this earth. He made an effort to acculturate, but it was never good enough, even for those who professed to call themselves his friends. I witnessed this, not only as it occurred to him, but as it occurred to myself. I became jaded a whole lot faster than he did...but not without good reason. Why live in a fantasy world, thinking of yourself as well-adjusted when you most clearly are not accepted into the general population for reasons that are seemingly beyond your control?

I do not claim that people living in the RGV need to be 'saved'. As I've said in prior posts, the hellishness is relative to the individual's past experiences; many people don't agree with my point of view, and they don't have to. But there it is...take it or leave it. These are simply the accounts of what happened to me and my subsequent reaction.

But, the Valley is exploding right now, as is all the border. It's comming along. The people are very friendly and I do not see any more racism there than in any other region of Texas. In fact, it's less if you ask me. I'm from the Valley and I am hispanic, so maybe I'm a little biased. But I do try to be objective in these things. If the Valley folks were truely racist (and it is over 90% hispanic) I don't think a white guy could last two seconds there. But this is not the case.

Rather, tourists and businessmen from the north are flocking to south texas border and shore. Why are they doing this if its so boring and closed minded?

To be clear, not all Valley folks are "truely racist"...the trouble is that there are enough of them who are to have given me, a few of my friends, and my family occaisional problems. Its not an everyday thing, and is very subtle, but it is clearly there. If "true racism" entails dragging a person tied to a pickup truck down a road, then no, the RGV doesn't have a lot of racism. But I'd argue that the little things can have a big impact too.

Tourists go to south Texas for four reasons: warmth, birds, beaches, and cheap perscription drugs within a few miles' drive. The businesspeople go there because they can make money. Trust me, it doesn't have to do with the demography of the area.

[Boris]

It has everthing to do with demographics. Who are they doing business with if it's not with the locals and business interest in Northern Mexico?

[Boris]

I wonder how a hispanic family (lets say at least 50% mestizo blood) is treated in a predominantly white area of Tyler, Midland, Wichita Falls, Amarillo, or Texarkana?

I don't think it would be quite as friendly as the treatment of a white family in McAllen, Harlingen or Brownsville whether it be business or at one of the malls or anywhere else.

[deepsouthtexas]

You're more likely to get dragged behind a pickup in east Texas by white folk, than even be called "whitey" in the RGV. Usually people go on about these things because they hide some true racism. Unfortunately for the sons of the old south, Texas is now a minority majority state. So whether it be in the RGV or in Pasedena, learning to adapt means not being so sensitive when you get ignored. Maybe people just don't like you and your pop and it has nothing to do with your race. You should at least find some comfort in the fact that nobody is forcing you to visit, move, or even think about the RGV.

I'm guessing that you probably live in one of the new have/have-not demarcated subdivisions to be so far out-of-the-loop.

You don't know anything about me. It's obvious that the neighborhoods I grew up in would make you cry.

[mrfootball]

You're more likely to get dragged behind a pickup in east Texas by white folk, than even be called "whitey" in the RGV.

Yes, because that happens all of the time in East Texas...

Racism runs both ways pal, it's not just whites vs. the world. Sounds like you don't like white people. Perhaps you ought to move further South...then again...Mexico's a fairly racist place too.

[RedScare]

Yes, because that happens all of the time in East Texas...

Racism runs both ways pal, it's not just whites vs. the world. Sounds like you don't like white people. Perhaps you ought to move further South...then again...Mexico's a fairly racist place too.

THAT ought to calm this thread down. Well done, Ambassador.

[Boris]

Your Ambassador is making it quite clear how he and other members of this forum feel about the people of the Valley and Mexico. This is not surprising. I see it all the time up here.

[deepsouthtexas]

Yes, because that happens all of the time in East Texas...

Racism runs both ways pal, it's not just whites vs. the world. Sounds like you don't like white people. Perhaps you ought to move further South...then again...Mexico's a fairly racist place too.

The term tongue-in-cheek escapes you. Sounds like you don't like me.

[TheNiche]

It has everthing to do with demographics. Who are they doing business with if it's not with the locals and business interest in Northern Mexico?

It has to do with low wages in Mexico...NOT pseudo-diversity or monoculturalism

I wonder how a hispanic family (lets say at least 50% mestizo blood) is treated in a predominantly white area of Tyler, Midland, Wichita Falls, Amarillo, or Texarkana?

I don't think it would be quite as friendly as the treatment of a white family in McAllen, Harlingen or Brownsville whether it be business or at one of the malls or anywhere else.

I can't speak for Hispanic families in those areas. Perhaps they are bad off as well...can't say. But I can speak from the perspective of a white family living in McAllen, and my conclusions are very negative.

[TheNiche]

You're more likely to get dragged behind a pickup in east Texas by white folk, than even be called "whitey" in the RGV. Usually people go on about these things because they hide some true racism.

Unfortunately for the sons of the old south, Texas is now a minority majority state. So whether it be in the RGV or in Pasedena, learning to adapt means not being so sensitive when you get ignored. Maybe people just don't like you and your pop and it has nothing to do with your race. You should at least find some comfort in the fact that nobody is forcing you to visit, move, or even think about the RGV.

You don't know anything about me. It's obvious that the neighborhoods I grew up in would make you cry.

Please do bear in mind that most of my RGV experiences were while I was in public schools. Kids tend to defeat all forms of subtlety, including that regarding racism. I would not expect for a mature adult to use the word "whitey" under nearly any circumstances, but you can bet that I've encountered it many many times in my own experiences...more times at least than can be counted on both hands. Adults do a somewhat better job at hiding xenophobic feelings...that's probably why it took my dad so long to notice.

And please don't think that this is confined to my 'pop' and I. I had two other white friends with similar encounters and another two friends (a brother and sister) that looked white but were actually hispanic...they'd had problems as well.

It seems that you're taking this personally. I do not mean to insult you; you aptly pointed out that I don't know anything about you. You could be the kindest person on Earth...this is not a matter that necessarily pertains to you...but it does pertain to enough people to be considered a 'matter'. You've got to recognize that racism does exist in the valley...perhaps not among the majority of residents, but a few is all it takes to make things seem pretty ugly.

By the way, for the record, crime really IS bad there. I could write a veritible soap opera based upon my experiences there.

Yes, because that happens all of the time in East Texas...

Racism runs both ways pal, it's not just whites vs. the world. Sounds like you don't like white people. Perhaps you ought to move further South...then again...Mexico's a fairly racist place too.

You know, from my experiences, once you get out of the border towns, only the wealthy Mexicans have a propensity to be at all obnoxious; I once found myself walking through the middle of an impromptu soccer game in the lobby of an upscale hotel in Veracruz. The middle class and lower class have always treated my family and I exceptionally well in the interior.