TheNiche Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 With the sub prime and 2nd lien market in chaos, the market is poised for a very tough year. In the past 2 months, 41 lenders have either filed for bankruptcy or closed their doors. The most recent lender is Loan City which closed yesterday. Large scale projects like 2727 are going to find it tough to find prospective buyers to purchase units. Even borrowers with decent credit (660+) are finding money hard to find. The easy money days of lending are over.My thinking was that projects such as this one are targeted at a demographic group that typically has more resources, better credit scores, and better financial management skills. I'm sure that there will always be folks stretching their budget to get in on a high-end place, but I'd expect the proportion of such buyers to be lower than with more affordable housing alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banking214 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 My thinking was that projects such as this one are targeted at a demographic group that typically has more resources, better credit scores, and better financial management skills. I'm sure that there will always be folks stretching their budget to get in on a high-end place, but I'd expect the proportion of such buyers to be lower than with more affordable housing alternatives.Credit does not discriminate. You would think that borrowers that can afford such lavish homes would have great credit and reserves. However, I see all too many times borrowers wanting $1 million plus homes that have no money and horrible credit. They want 100%, 6% seller concessions, interest only loans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevelopmentX Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I've been a loyal reader of your website for the last twelve months, however I am only now taking the "plunge" into joining the dialogue. I have much to add, however as it is getting late I thought I would initiate my username "Development X" by passing along the following updates to the group:1) I just drove by the 2727 Kirby construction site tonight at 10:15pm and can report that the entire worksite was lit up with HMI's like a film set- with workmen and tractors in use. It appears that they have turned quite a bit of dirt since yesterday. I'm hoping that the developers are reacting to Houston Development's cryptic yet ominous update and want to reassure those buyers who have put down deposits that things are still a "go". Worst scenario would be that the developers hoped to extinguish the negative chatter by "dressing up the set" the evening that the "legendary" Armando's restaurant returned to River Oaks in the former site of River Oaks Grill. All of the movers and shakers were attending so this would be a prime night to catch the attention of people such as myself.2) Uber-popular West U trattoria Antica Osteria is not moving ahead with plans to open a second location in the Houston Pavilions development. Although the developers continue to use their name in press releases, the owners made the decision at least six weeks ago. Don't panic- the reason is evidently that the owners evidently don't want to spread themselves too thin. Verdict- I believe it- remember- the owners are not open for lunch and they serve dinner only 6 nights a week- a reason why all their employees love working there so much!That's all for tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt16 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 There were workers on site this morning as well. There was a cement truck there pouring also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 (edited) Credit does not discriminate. You would think that borrowers that can afford such lavish homes would have great credit and reserves. However, I see all too many times borrowers wanting $1 million plus homes that have no money and horrible credit. They want 100%, 6% seller concessions, interest only loans.Yeah, I'd like that myself, but even though I have a little money and great credit, any attempt of mine to apply for a loan like that would be laughed at. Have any lenders actually been receptive to this crowd? Edited March 23, 2007 by TheNiche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I've been a loyal reader of your website for the last twelve months, however I am only now taking the "plunge" into joining the dialogue. I have much to add, however as it is getting late I thought I would initiate my username "Development X" by passing along the following updates to the group:1) I just drove by the 2727 Kirby construction site tonight at 10:15pm and can report that the entire worksite was lit up with HMI's like a film set- with workmen and tractors in use. It appears that they have turned quite a bit of dirt since yesterday. I'm hoping that the developers are reacting to Houston Development's cryptic yet ominous update and want to reassure those buyers who have put down deposits that things are still a "go". Worst scenario would be that the developers hoped to extinguish the negative chatter by "dressing up the set" the evening that the "legendary" Armando's restaurant returned to River Oaks in the former site of River Oaks Grill. All of the movers and shakers were attending so this would be a prime night to catch the attention of people such as myself.2) Uber-popular West U trattoria Antica Osteria is not moving ahead with plans to open a second location in the Houston Pavilions development. Although the developers continue to use their name in press releases, the owners made the decision at least six weeks ago. Don't panic- the reason is evidently that the owners evidently don't want to spread themselves too thin. Verdict- I believe it- remember- the owners are not open for lunch and they serve dinner only 6 nights a week- a reason why all their employees love working there so much!That's all for tonight!welcome to the forum, developmentx. the more of us reporting on the happenings around town, the more fun this site gets. keep it coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Yeah, I'd like that myself, but even though I have a little money and great credit, any attempt of mine to apply for a loan like that would be laughed at. why be laughed at by strangers, when it's constantly being done here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcutech Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Stick a fork in this one..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevelopmentX Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 2:30 pmJust drove by the 2727 site again and they were finishing pouring the foundation for the lower level of the underground parking garage.I wonder if some of us might have been "trigger happy" in ringing the death knell.I certainly hope so.I spent 18 months working in Vancouver from '05-'06 and kept a corporate condo in Yaletown downtown. I can attest to the quality of the projects designed by the same architect responsible for 2727 Kirby renderings.Does anyone have any updated information on the Kirby & Westheimer project? Well placed sources tell me that Tootsies will be an anchor (leaving behind their prime Highland Village location). I've heard their former digs might be either sub-divided or home to a Ralph Lauren flagship (similar to stores in New York , Beverly Hills and Dallas).All for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonfella Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 2:30 pmJust drove by the 2727 site again and they were finishing pouring the foundation for the lower level of the underground parking garage. I wonder if some of us might have been "trigger happy" in ringing the death knell. I certainly hope so. I spent 18 months working in Vancouver f rom '05-'06 and kept a corporate condo in Yaletown downtown. I can attest to the quality of the projects designed by the same architect responsible for 2727 Kirby renderings. Does anyone have any updated information on the Kirby & Westheimer project? Well placed sources tell me that Tootsies will be an anchor (leaving behind their prime Highland Village location). I've heard their former digs might be either sub-divided or home to a Ralph Lauren flagship (similar to stores in New York , Beverly Hills and Dallas). All for now. DX: you are so right..... the rest of 'em ... well I'll just say let's wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkjones98 Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 (edited) Credit does not discriminate. You would think that borrowers that can afford such lavish homes would have great credit and reserves. However, I see all too many times borrowers wanting $1 million plus homes that have no money and horrible credit. They want 100%, 6% seller concessions, interest only loans.Credit doesn't discriminate? I would have to disagree with you. A "credit score", by definition, discriminates between people with different scores. But you're point is well taken. Spreading yourself too thin and spending beyond you're means is the American way! Edited March 25, 2007 by bkjones98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Credit doesn't discriminate? I would have to disagree with you. A "credit score", by definition, discriminates between people with different scores. But you're point is well taken. Spreading yourself too thin and spending beyond you're means is the American way!I never quite understood how people can extend themselves so far. listening to a news report a couple of days ago that even people earning 6 figures are living from week to week made me wonder about a friend of mine in that exact situation. It just amazes me on how common it is for people to lease their way into a higher life but have almost no equity in their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 It just amazes me on how common it is for people to lease their way into a higher life but have almost no equity in their lives.This is why i lease nothing and i dont subscibe to any creative financing!!I would like to see this tower rise and shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkjones98 Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 I never quite understood how people can extend themselves so far. listening to a news report a couple of days ago that even people earning 6 figures are living from week to week made me wonder about a friend of mine in that exact situation. It just amazes me on how common it is for people to lease their way into a higher life but have almost no equity in their lives."The things you own end up owning you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banking214 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 This is why i lease nothing and i dont subscibe to any creative financing!!I would like to see this tower rise and shine.I like the term "exotic financing". I was reading the Chronicle business section this morning and noticed that most foreclosures are between 75k and 125k (or around) loan amounts. So many borrowers with no money and an insane amount of collections with never one bill paid on time. Sure, give them a home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethanra Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 A crew was working away at the site today, even the crane was being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feufoma Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 A crew was working away at the site today, even the crane was being used.Yes, I even noticed some concrete that had been poured!!! Egads, this thing is sloooooow. You know, this project exemplifies 'urban' development in Houston as of late. Shaky at best. It's happening. Oh wait, it's not. I wouldn't be as concerned as I am but for the fact that (finally) we have a somewhat decent design shaping up the (rather dour) skyline in this town. Is anyone in the 'know' for this project??? I still think it's strange that it's taking this long for discernible development to be occurring. New funding?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildingunbuildingrebuilding Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Yes, I even noticed some concrete that had been poured!!! Egads, this thing is sloooooow. You know, this project exemplifies 'urban' development in Houston as of late. Shaky at best. It's happening. Oh wait, it's not. I wouldn't be as concerned as I am but for the fact that (finally) we have a somewhat decent design shaping up the (rather dour) skyline in this town. Is anyone in the 'know' for this project??? I still think it's strange that it's taking this long for discernible development to be occurring. New funding??Don't know what happened, but spoke with someone this week who was considering funding the deal. Wish I could shed more light, but that's all I know. Looks like this one is still teetering. If I had to bet, though, I would bet it gets done. But I wouldn't bet very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodfella Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Don't know what happened, but spoke with someone this week who was considering funding the deal. Wish I could shed more light, but that's all I know. Looks like this one is still teetering. If I had to bet, though, I would bet it gets done. But I wouldn't bet very much.Guys (and gals),It is possible (and I heard true) that the work they are doing on the north retaining wall has to do with the fact that they screwed up the foundation of north trust back when they were excavating. Whether they build or not, they still have to shore up the bank's foundation.I still think this is dead in the water. Credit, lenders aside - either a product is the product for the market, positioned correctly and at the right price or it will tank. I think this just tanked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 I still think this is dead in the water. Credit, lenders aside - either a product is the product for the market, positioned correctly and at the right price or it will tank. I think this just tanked.What makes you think that?There are only 13 of 93 units still for sale. This project sounds like a success. Even if the lender goes belly-up (unlikely), this is the type of loan that would be picked up by another party.If the construction crew screwed up the foundation of another building, there might be delays while that is fixed, but the project is not dead. The pessimism here is astounding. 2727 Kirby will be completed and will be a beautiful building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txtrader Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 What makes you think that?There are only 13 of 93 units still for sale. This project sounds like a success. Even if the lender goes belly-up (unlikely), this is the type of loan that would be picked up by another party.If the construction crew screwed up the foundation of another building, there might be delays while that is fixed, but the project is not dead. The pessimism here is astounding. 2727 Kirby will be completed and will be a beautiful building.I believe there are more than 13 units available. They only post a few of the listings on HAR representing different floor plans.There is a lot of rumor and speculation involving this property, I don't know what to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Went by the site today during lunch and they're busting tail right now. Construction crews were on site, the back hoe was in operation again and it does indeed look as if they're building a new foundation (lots of dirt excavated since the last time I made it by).Across the street, work on the Kirby @ Westheimer development seems a lot less secretive now, as they've removed a lot of the coverings from the construction fences and you can see inside without any problems at all. There's a massive hole in place now and it looks as if they're abou ready to start pouring foundation and the like.It's almost as if work on the two projects is linked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiRiseObserver Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 (edited) Long time lurker, first time poster.This project is on its way up. Those who dispute it, either have not seen it lately, or have an agenda. Edited April 4, 2007 by HiRiseObserver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Long time lurker, first time poster.This project is on its way up. Those who dispute it, either have not seen it lately, or have an agenda. LOL LOL ... sorry, I just LOVE the word "agenda"... It cracks me up when I hear all of the time about us gays and our evil AGENDA!! > But anyways... I am really hoping this project goes up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Long time lurker, first time poster.This project is on its way up. Those who dispute it, either have not seen it lately, or have an agenda. I tend to think that you're right and that it will probably end up getting built, but your post begs the question: How do we know that you don't have an agenda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 I tend to think that you're right and that it will probably end up getting built, but your post begs the question:How do we know that you don't have an agenda? sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyc_tex Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 sorry I love it when some claim others are perceptually skewed, while the same social forces apparently don't apply to them. Hyper reflexivity is great....everyone is at the center and periphery of the panopticon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Hizzy! Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Hyper reflexivity is great....everyone is at the center and periphery of the panopticon.... Whoa... deep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyc_tex Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Whoa... deep! Sure, as much as the shallow end is deep..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 This thread is starting to take an unfortunate postmodern turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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