Aaron Upset At Astros' Lack Of African Americans

[H-Town Man]

Midtown, there are not baseball fields everywhere, far from it. I'll bet there are 100 basketball courts in Houston to every baseball field.

There is also a second part to the equation, and that's advertising. The NBA does a stellar job of advertising itself at the community level. Every year they sponsor numerous 3 on 3 tournaments in almost every midsize and large city. They showcase their stars and build up rivalries (can you say Shaq-Kobe). Shoe companies jump on that bandwagon, playing nonstop commercials with the biggest stars. Kids respond to that stuff. Kids want to grow up to be T-Mac, not A-Rod.

Another important part of the equation is equipment. One of the reasons baseball has turned into a suburban sport is the cost just to play the game. To play basketball, all you need is a pair of shoes, shirt and shorts that you wear all the time anyway, and a basketball. With all the courts out there, there is little need to organize so you don't have to pay to play in leagues, and since there are no leagues, kids can show up at any time and just play.

To play baseball you have to buy cleats, glove, bat, and since baseball fields are scarce they are all taken up by leagues, kids that want to play also have to buy a uniform and pay fees. Houston does have free youth sports programs, but there are eligebility requirements. Also, since you can't just walk up and play, you have to join teams with schedules to adhere to; you have to go to set practices just to play in games.

All of this adds up to roadblocks, none of which are racial in nature, more socio-economic, which is why you don't see Aaron saying the Man is keeping black kids away on purpose. All he is saying is that he sees a problem with the number of blacks in the sport of baseball that the MLB should be working to help fix.

Have you ever heard those old Bill Cosby routines about when he was a kid in Philadelphia playing baseball on the street with his friends? First base would be the gutter, third base would be the Ford that happened to drive off while the kid was running towards it... Back then, inner city children were determined to play baseball, and didn't need for there to be a playing field close by. You don't see that kind of determination now for baseball. I think you're right in saying that lack of fields has something to do with the lower interest, but clearly there is something else involved.

[Jeebus]

Have you ever heard those old Bill Cosby routines about when he was a kid in Philadelphia playing baseball on the street with his friends? First base would be the gutter, third base would be the Ford that happened to drive off while the kid was running towards it... Back then, inner city children were determined to play baseball, and didn't need for there to be a playing field close by. You don't see that kind of determination now for baseball. I think you're right in saying that lack of fields has something to do with the lower interest, but clearly there is something else involved.

Yeah.. not enough "bling-bling" to catch the eyes of inner-city youth who have been taught by rap music that the only way to success is to lazily play b-ball or rap.

[J.A.S.O.N.]

Have you ever heard those old Bill Cosby routines about when he was a kid in Philadelphia playing baseball on the street with his friends? First base would be the gutter, third base would be the Ford that happened to drive off while the kid was running towards it... Back then, inner city children were determined to play baseball, and didn't need for there to be a playing field close by. You don't see that kind of determination now for baseball. I think you're right in saying that lack of fields has something to do with the lower interest, but clearly there is something else involved.

I also think baseball lost a lot of its popularity with black kids indirectly through players like Micheal Jordan. His Spike Lee commercials, and tennis shoes popularity helped a lot. Seeing him take off from the free throw line was... WOW! There is a continuous amount of action throughout basketball games, while baseball takes a certain amount of patience. I'm a huge baseball fan, but a mid July, Sunday afternoon game can lull even me to sleep.

You have to remember Jeebus, that the hip-hop generation that is in the NBA today didn't have the so called "thug" basketball players to look up to, there were none. Therefore, "bling" couldn't be a logical explanation for the popularity of basketball with young African Americans. Allen Iverson's heroes had to be the Hakeem Olajuwons, Michael Jordans, Spud Webbs, and Reggie Millers of the NBA in the 80's. "Bling" came into the picture WAY after these guys.

[Jeebus]

You have to remember Jeebus, that the hip-hop generation that is in the NBA today didn't have the so called "thug" basketball players to look up to, there were none. Therefore, "bling" couldn't be a logical explanation for the popularity of basketball with young African Americans. Allen Iverson's heroes had to be the Hakeem Olajuwons, Michael Jordans, Spud Webbs, and Reggie Millers of the NBA in the 80's. "Bling" came into the picture WAY after these guys.

My point about rap music is that ten years ago Michael Jordan would not have been caught dead with a gangster rapper. Today however, its not unsual to see basketball stars in the music videos of "bling-bling" rappers. This ultimately, is what millions of black youth watch every afternoon when they get home from school on BET.

I blame rap music, which today only sells the story of "bling-bling".

[Guest danax]

No where in the article did I hear Aaron or anyone else call the Astros a racist team.

He said we need to "address" our lack of black players.

IMO, the only thing we need to "address" is winning baseball games.

I don't think any of us particularly care what color they are.

Black, red, yellow, white...[i do draw the line at chartreuse-it clashes with absolutly EVERYTHING!!!]

People need to get a life and stop trying to turn nothing into someting.

No, he didn't say "The Astros are a racist team" and maybe I'm missing something but here's how his statement hit me;

"It is very disturbing to see something like this,"

Disturbing could mean either he's disturbed by baseball in general having too few A/A players or, he could be saying that the Astros didn't have enough A/A players on the team, which would mean he was singling out the Astros, which would imply racism via the selectivity of white players over A/A players by the Astros. His next statement, to me anyway, clarified which of the above two possiblities he meant.

Then, "And you would think that this ballclub could find at least one or two African Americans, especially in this city. It's very disturbing. I think they need to look at that very carefully. They need to talk to people in the scouting department and everybody else because this needs to be addressed."

OK, here he is clearly implicating "this ballclub". Yes, I know we were the team in the spotlight but so were the White Sox and, if he meant baseball, why didn't he say that? Then, he goes even further to say "especially in this city" which I take to mean that, in a city with a lot of A/A citizens, we should go out and FIND A/A players. How else should we interpret that? He's saying that the organization needs to balance the racial profile to fit the population; i.e., implement 1970s affirmative action.

I just don't see where his words were taken out of context. He was quite clear. The Astros are an all white team who need a few African Americans. If he's not saying we're racist then he's at least insinuating that we are.

He probably feels the same about MLB too, but with 9% A/A players and a US population of something like 17%, it's not exactly something horribly out of proportion.

As I've said , Aaron has been permanently messed up by racial attacks on him. He was an innocent ballplayer hitting balls over the fence, just like he was supposed to do, and suddenly got an inhuman amount of persistant hated poured over him and the poor guy was forever changed. When he sees a team of white players (and Tavares, but being black/Hispanic, he doesn't count), I think he starts to boil inside. Again, I'm very sympathetic to his history but I don't think 90% of Amercians of any "race" care one bit what the racial composition is of teams in any sport, only those who are "racist" really care.

Now Bud Selig's getting involved in this? Brother. He's feeling the pressures of the era we live in where, if he doesn't "address" this, then he'll be branded as racist by default.

First, he dictates how our roof will be used. What's next, a secret call to McLane saying "uh, look Drayton, do me a big favor and see if you can get a couple of African Amercians in the off season. I'm catchin a lot of heat since the Series and we really need to put this issue to bed. I'll owe you one. Next time, the roof stays open".

It will be interesting to see who we trade away and pick up in the next few months.

[nmainguy]

"We know that we have to work to do,'' Commissioner Bud Selig said Tuesday. "We'll continue to intensify our efforts. I'm very aware, I'm extremely sensitive about it, and I feel badly about it. But we need to get to work to change things.''

I don't think the Astros have anything to explain or apologize for.

Hey Selig! Go recruit them if you "feel badly about it". And get off my ROOF!!! I mean it!!!

[TJones]

JASON, you are right, Iverson had to look up to Jordan and Ewing, and Spud Webb, Iverson isn't that tall, In the basketball sense. Where exactly DID he get his "thug" mentality, I think maybe listening to one too many 2Pac albums might have done that to him. Just my opinion. I personally think MLB does about 10 times as much promoting of the history of black baseball players, than the NBA promotes the history of former white players. NBA acts like black folks invented the game, where as what they've done is possibly perfected it. I find an NBA game highly enjoyable to watch. I wish I could dunk a basketball, I have a killer 3, but I can't jump high enough to get my wrist over the rim for the jam ! There just aren't 100 Barry Bonds running around looking to get on a team. Promotion of baseball is not the responsibilty of MLB, the responsiblity begins at home. Have a game of catch with your son or daughter, that is where it all begins. Take your son or daughter to a game. What's the cost for two nosebleed tickets at a Rockets game, $50 ? It cost $10 for the two of you to go see the 'Stros, during regular season. That............is where it all begins.

[RedScare]

Lowest priced Rockets ticket is $10 for upper deck behind the baskets, $9 if you purchase season tickets.

Lowest Astros price is $5 for the top outfield seats. Next cheapest is $10.

[Jeebus]

JASON, you are right, Iverson had to look up to Jordan and Ewing, and Spud Webb, Iverson isn't that tall, In the basketball sense. Where exactly DID he get his "thug" mentality, I think maybe listening to one too many 2Pac albums might have done that to him. Just my opinion. I personally think MLB does about 10 times as much promoting of the history of black baseball players, than the NBA promotes the history of former white players. NBA acts like black folks invented the game, where as what they've done is possibly perfected it. I find an NBA game highly enjoyable to watch. I wish I could dunk a basketball, I have a killer 3, but I can't jump high enough to get my wrist over the rim for the jam ! There just aren't 100 Barry Bonds running around looking to get on a team. Promotion of baseball is not the responsibilty of MLB, the responsiblity begins at home. Have a game of catch with your son or daughter, that is where it all begins. Take your son or daughter to a game. What's the cost for two nosebleed tickets at a Rockets game, $50 ? It cost $10 for the two of you to go see the 'Stros, during regular season. That............is where it all begins.

You're exactly right about Iverson & 2pac cd's. He might not have listened to 2pac per say - but I doubt it was Will Smith and Skee-lo that gave him that persona.

To me the NBA lost its class about 5 years ago. Like a thief in the night, class was stolen from basketball all while we never turned our heads. You talk about black guys perfecting basketball? I hope you're talking about the guys from the 70's to the early 90's. Those guys still knew how to pass the ball instead of always driving, dunking, or lobbing missed 3's against the boards.

As for MLB promoting the history of baseball, well - it's America's past time. The only sport that comes close to epic history is football - and these days it seems to be going the way of the NBA.

Oh yeah, FYI.. The greatest basketball player of all time for both class and skill is a two way tie between Pistol Pete Maravich and Michael Air Jordan. You can print that.

[J.A.S.O.N.]

The greatest basketball player of all time for both class and skill is a two way tie between Pistol Pete Maravich and Michael Air Jordan. You can print that.

With all due respect to the late Pete Maravich, you don't even believe that!!

[TJones]

I think you were speed reading again Jeebus. I typed, history of BLACK players in MLB, as opposed to WHITE players in the NBA. I agree about MJ and Pistol Pete, but who does the NBA always talk about ? If you ask 100, 7th graders "who are MJ and Pistol Pete ?", I guarantee the answers will be a great basketball player whom none of them have ever seen play, and they'd be guessing that Pistol Pete was a cowboy back in the old west. Believe that ! I think Jeebus was referring to the greatest white player, JASON.

[J.A.S.O.N.]

^^No doubt he (Pistol Pete) was great, possibly the greatest ball handler the game has ever seen, but I think Mike has him on a better overall game.

[Jeebus]

I think you were speed reading again Jeebus.

No, no.. I read your entire post, and agree with you. I just wanted to add my opinion - if that's okay?

As for Pistol Pete, I wasn't judging him as the best white ball player - but just simply the best, which is why he's tied with MJ. But hey - that's just my opinion.

[TJones]

Thanks Red. I learn something new everyday.

Jeebus, you are more than welcome to give opinion on any of my posts, I find you very insightful as well as most people in this forum. I happen to think this is one of the more intelligent forums on the web. I think both sides of the coin are always represented well. Especially on a subject like this.

[ProHouston]

Maybe Preston's signing will shut Aaron up...

Astros ink Wilson to one-year contract

I just hope he has enough offense for us.

[LTAWACS]

I dont know who he is but this Aaron seems to be quite the anus.

[TJones]

^^^^WWWWWHHHHHHAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT !! ! ! ! !! ^^^^ Don't know who he is ?

[DJ V Lawrence]

^^^^WWWWWHHHHHHAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT !! ! ! ! !! ^^^^ Don't know who he is ?

I heard he hit a couple home runs in the past...

[TJones]

I heard he hit a couple home runs in the past...

one or two............

[VelvetJ]

Well I'm late here but the word ignorance cannot escape my opinion of this thread. I am in utter amazement that only a couple of people here actually understood what Hank Aaron was saying. So many of us are so quick to point the finger at "THOSE" people, they haven't even stopped to try to understand "THOSE" people. They are soley going on what they THINK they see. Rap music and gangsta rappers?

I have been of the opinion for quite some time now that we do not know each other. White don't know black, black don't know white, Hispanic don't know Asian, etc., and some of the opinions I've read here is proof of that. Some people here don't seem to know black Americans or what that all means in this country at all. They are letting television influence them more than getting to know people and finding out who they really are and what they really are about.

There are those that only see things in black or white but life is not as simple as that. For example, people are much more complex than the physical bodies you see on the outside. The same holds true for pretty much everything else, even this situation. IMO that lack of an ability to understand that things are complex led to some to take Aarons comments out of context and say he was saying the Astro's are racist. That is not what he was saying.

By they way, I am happy about the signing of Preston.

*note* Someone asked who Aaron was? Incredible.

[TJones]

Velvet, since you seem to have the insight, what was Aaron saying ? Please elaborate ?

[Jeebus]

I have been of the opinion for quite some time now that we do not know each other. White don't know black, black don't know white, Hispanic don't know Asian, etc., and some of the opinions I've read here is proof of that. Some people here don't seem to know black Americans or what that all means in this country at all. They are letting television influence them more than getting to know people and finding out who they really are and what they really are about.

Maybe if there was more affirmative action, I could get to know more non-white people...?

[RedScare]

Maybe if there was more affirmative action, I could get to know more non-white people...?

I have found that talking and listening to them works well.

But hey, that's me. Mr. Personality.

[nmainguy]

Maybe if there was more affirmative action, I could get to know more non-white people...?

Or maybe you could just go out there and do it on your own.

[west20th]

Maybe if there was more affirmative action, I could get to know more non-white people...?

What do you do for a living? Just wondering because living in Houston getting to know non-white people never has been difficult for me. In fact I'll often find my self in situations were I am the only white person. After growing up in a very segregated Cleveland, Oh. this is somewhat refreshing. Aaaaaaah I feel a flashback coming on. I've always found this amusing so I'll get off topic a bit and share.

In grade school we often took field trips to Cedar Point, an amusement park west of Cleveland. Then the only people I was exposed to were white Catholics, A non-Catholic white seemed exotic to me then. Anyway, we were waiting in the line for the roller coaster (Blue Streak) along with some kids from a "black" school. We were looking at each other like we were aliens from another planet. Looking back that seems so odd to me now.

[Jeebus]

You three exemplified my point. It doesn't take affirmative action to diversify your life.

How sweet that all three replies proving this point were from liberals too.

[west20th]

You three exemplified my point. It doesn't take affirmative action to diversify your life.

How sweet that all three replies proving this point were from liberals too.

Don't assume because one is liberal that one is automatically for affirmative action. Actually I'm against any sort of categorization according to race. We need to get past this. That being said there still are people who judge others according to race. For the life of me I can't understand this. If I'm in a position to hire someone I'll hire the best qualified, regardless of race, because they will in turn make me look better. It is just common sense. If removing barriers is affirmative action than I am for it. If hard quotas are involved then I would be against affirmative action. The definition of "affirmative action" is very grey.

[largeTEXAS]

You three exemplified my point. It doesn't take affirmative action to diversify your life.

How sweet that all three replies proving this point were from liberals too.

Yeah, Liberals need to check themselves! They don't know what the hell's going on!!!

Conservatives know where it's at (just ask Delay, Abramoff, Hastert, Bush, Cheney, Frist, Kidan, etc.)!!

[west20th]

Yeah, Liberals need to check themselves! They don't know what the hell's going on!!!

Conservatives know where it's at (just ask Delay, Abramoff, Hastert, Bush, Cheney, Frist, Kidan, etc.)!!

Don't forget Cunningham and Bob Ney. Oh and ex-Christian coalition leader Ralph Reed. Screwing Indian tribes out of millions is such a Christian thing to do.

[VelvetJ]

Don't assume because one is liberal that one is automatically for affirmative action. Actually I'm against any sort of categorization according to race. We need to get past this. That being said there still are people who judge others according to race. For the life of me I can't understand this. If I'm in a position to hire someone I'll hire the best qualified, regardless of race, because they will in turn make me look better. It is just common sense. If removing barriers is affirmative action than I am for it. If hard quotas are involved then I would be against affirmative action. The definition of "affirmative action" is very grey.

Interesting post west20th. "If removing barriers is affirmative action than I am for it". I love how you phrased that. That is exactly what it was and is for. I have found you and I actually agree on many things but I can't say I completely agree with you on this. I just don't believe we are at a point in this country where it is no longer needed despite the progress that has been made.

On a somewhat similar note but not related to you west20th, I love how you mentioned judging. Prejudging is a interesting thing and I always get a kick out of when people hear the words Affirmative Actions they AUTOMATICALLY assume the person isn't qualitfied. I love how people hear the word Christian and AUTOMATICALLY assume we are all Republican. I love how we conviently forget who has benefited the most from Affirmative Actions (white women). I loved how Bill O'Reilly made it seem like ONLY Conservative Christian Republicans supported the phrase "Merry Christmas" and anyone outside of that particular group didn't .

Anyway, just to stay on subject, I'm glad they signed Preston.