Mexicans Taking Over Houston

[Lowbrow]

OMG that is funny.

[2112]

This thread brings out the true colors in some of our members. First, there are those who will simply group ALL Hispanics, including assimilated Americans, into one nice section proclaimed to be the root of all of our problems. No one bothers to consider that one is insulting a proud heritage, a heritage that has every right to practice it, especially since it is just as much part of

[2112]

27,

You are good people, I can tell by what is in between the lines in your posts. So no, you didnt.

Cheers.

[713 To 214]

I have a question for those who are so bent on forcing immigrants to learn English.

When is a person who comes here to work 12-16 hour days supposed to find the time to learn a new language? Where and who are they going to learn it from? And the $25,000 question, who is going to pay?

I'll venture a guess that the same people arguing that people have no right to be here unless they speak English are the same people who will argue taxpayer money shouldn't be "wasted" teaching ESL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your argument is misplaced (no doubt because this is an emotional topic for you). I think the complaint is that Mexicans (as opposed to Hondurans or Jamaicans, or Germans, etc.) are living in the U.S. ILLEGALLY in significantly disproportionate numbers. Whether ANY immigrant learns English is a sub-issue, because if you enter the country LEGALLY and decide to stay legally, your proficiency in English will be tested, to a certain degree, when you seek U.S. Citizenship.

Now we can debate the costs and benefits of illegal immigration all day, I'm sure. (i.e. Costs: health care, education, public safety, repatriation of income; Benefits: cheap labor, hard working labor force, stimulation of economy). However, we need to decide whether or not the "illegal" in "illegal alien" means what we've been taught that the word means. . .and start the discussion from there.

************Advance notice to anyone who wishes to respond to this post. I will not reply to any emotionally-charged, tangential arguments on race, Mexico vs. Texas, etc. I tried to post my comments in a respectful manner. So, I would appreciate the same courtesy.************

[tamtagon]

I have no pity on someone who chooses to come to the United States - legally or illegally, and doesn't learn english. Last time I checked, no one has been forced across our borders - they all volunteer to come here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That seems a little harsh to me. How long did it take you to learn english, three, four years? Then after you learned to speak, how long did it take you to learn the rules of grammar?

You should check again, most immigrants are forced to come here.

[N Judah]

This country had open borders up until the beginning of the 20th century. Then the first great wave of xenophobia hit and suddenly we had immigration restrictions. A lot of it ties in with the eugenics movement which was hitting pretty hard right about then, as Italians, Irish, and Jews were the ones coming over in droves.

In the future, as Latin American countries stabilize and free-trade zones come to encompass the entire westen hemisphere (i.e. FTAA and its ilk) we'll once again return to having an open border with Mexico, and we'll be able to go all the way down to Patagonia with no hassle.

[bruce_oneal]

In the future, as Latin American countries stabilize and free-trade zones come to encompass the entire westen hemisphere (i.e. FTAA and its ilk) we'll once again return to having an open border with Mexico, and we'll be able to go all the way down to Patagonia with no hassle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

patagonia, eh? well there's a place i'm just dying to visit.

[713 To 214]

I still think living here is a privilage that is trivialized by so many that don't care. It disgusts me that there are people so selfish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^Agreed. There are many citizens of countries around the world (that don't share a border with the U.S.) that would love to immigrate to this country LEGALLY. They stand in line, as you mentioned, and wait for their visas to be approved. They make a valiant effort to meet all of the requirements, and then they wait. . .Many are still waiting. Many more will continue waiting, and still won't get the chance, despite their efforts.

What disgusts me is the Mexican President, Vicente Fox, and his arrogant disregard for our immigration laws. He speaks as though our immigration laws mean nothing with respect to Mexico, and he suggests, IMO, that the U.S almost owes it to Mexican Citizens to turn a blind eye to their illegal crossings. Fox's arrogance is evident in his government's recently distributed "how to guide" for those Mexican Citizens who seek to cross our shared border illegally. This, I feel, is a slap in the face.

[bruce_oneal]

^Agreed.  There are many citizens of countries around the world (that don't share a border with the U.S.) that would love to immigrate to this country LEGALLY.  They stand in line, as you mentioned, and wait for their visas to be approved.  They make a valiant effort to meet all of the requirements, and then they wait. . .Many are still waiting.  Many more will continue waiting, and still won't get the chance, despite their efforts.

What disgusts me is the Mexican President, Vicente Fox, and his arrogant disregard for our immigration laws.  He speaks as though our immigration laws mean nothing with respect to Mexico, and he suggests, IMO, that the U.S almost owes it to Mexican Citizens to turn a blind eye to their illegal crossings.  Fox's arrogance is evident in his government's recently distributed "how to guide" for those Mexican Citizens who seek to cross our shared border illegally.  This, I feel, is a slap in the face.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

guess i need to read up on VF's presidency. i do not really know a lot about the politics of our neighbor to the south.

[Guest danax]

^Agreed.

[N Judah]

patagonia, eh?  well there's a place i'm just dying to visit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Way to miss the point.

[tamtagon]

money sent home by Mexicans living in the US (I remember hearing it's the #2 component, can that be right?).

Ya that's right, somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 Billion a year - these weekly transactions keep Mexican banks in business.

The encouragement of illegal entry into the US is purposefully ignored the American Government. The overall drain on the American economy is small change when compared to the savings businesses realize from the dramatically lower cost to employee illegal workers.

[kzseattle]

Ya that's right, somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 Billion a year - these weekly transactions keep Mexican banks in business. 

The encouragement of illegal entry into the US is purposefully ignored the American Government.  The overall drain on the American economy is small change when compared to the savings businesses realize from the dramatically lower cost to employee illegal workers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not sure if the economic benefits of permitting illegal entry into the US outweigh the losses incurred through an increase in crime rate, increased burden on welfare system and tax losses.

The US immigration system is seriously flawed. Thousands of students wishing to achieve higher education in the US fail to enter the country each year because the visa processing is taking so long that they miss the intended semester and their admissions to colleges and universities are no longer valid. Moreover, thousands of highly skilled and highly educated individuals (those with H1 work visas granted to individuals with specialty skills) have been forced to leave the US (and take the jobs with them). Those who don

[N Judah]

I am not sure if the economic benefits of permitting illegal entry into the US outweigh the losses incurred through an increase in crime rate, increased burden on welfare system and tax losses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's economic benefits > crime losses + welfare losses + tax losses + losses in the form of the cost of securing the border

And apparently the left side of the equation is higher than the right, otherwise I think we'd have completely shut down the border already.

Ironic how Hillary Clinton is the only one serious about shutting down the border these days. I think she's priming for some kind of nationalized health care.

[Realeza]

Furthermore, I asbolutely hate going somewhere to purchase something, only to have someone who does not speak english wait on me. Why, as a tax paying, law abiding, citizen, veteran, and a civil servant am I along with everyone else being forced to be inconvienenced by someone who doesn't want to learn english? Am I in their country? No - they are in my country. I follow the rules - so should they.

I have no pity on someone who chooses to come to the United States - legally or illegally, and doesn't learn english. Last time I checked, no one has been forced across our borders - they all volunteer to come here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No me digas beener mr. pu%etero te sacare un susto por RACISTA!! y %ulero, no me llames frijolero p`che G`INGO pu%%etero!!

ABAJO el RACISMO.....solo una pregunta.....

[bruce_oneal]

No me digas beener mr. pu%etero te sacare un susto por RACISTA!! y %ulero, no me llames frijolero p`che G`INGO pu%%etero!!

ABAJO el RACISMO.....solo una pregunta.....

[713 To 214]

[turns sarcasm on] ^Muchos Gracias. That helps a lot. [turns sarcasm off]

[citykid09]

roughly translates to:

You do not say to me to beener pu%etero mr. will remove a scare to you

by RACIST! and %ulero, you do not call pu%%etero frijolero to me p`che

G`INGO!

DOWN the RACISMO.....solo a question..... whichever g`ingos speaks

Spanish when they go to mexico?????? and as it is taken care of to

them? it is spoken to them in ingles no? porfa.....ustedes is not

God..... and despues of this I occur to account why many people in the

world this in discord with the Americans and their form of life....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

English is spoken to Americans when they come to Mexico because they know where their biggest source of tourism income.

[kzseattle]

Jesus H. Christ.. Someone get this man a translator - STAT!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe he wrote in Spanish on purpose to show he didnt care for English. Basically, he complained that American are enforcing their way of life onto others and since Americans who visit Mexico dont speak Spanish, why should they speak English when they are in America. And, oh, he called you are racist!

[Hunter]

I believe he wrote in Spanish on purpose to show he didnt care for English.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay so I do not need to say anything if he does not care for English then it is no problem. he is welcome to go where ever he wants and speaks what he wants just do not force me to change just to accomodate him.

Basically, he complained that American are enforcing their way of life onto others and since Americans who visit Mexico dont speak Spanish, why should they speak English when they are in America.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they are just visiting the US then I have no problem with anyone speaking any language that they want or feel like speaking. I will be more than happy to help anyone one who wants to visit this wonderful country in any way I can no matter how difficult.

Now on the other hand if they wish to come live here then they should make every attempt to learn the local language and I expect someone moving to their country to do the same thing.

When I lived in France I did my best to learn the local language and the locals were very patient with me as well. Not once did I complain or try to force them to understand English. That is the way it should be. It is only the polite and curtous thing to do.

[kzseattle]

Okay so I do not need to say anything if he doe snto care for English then it is no problem. he is welcoem to go where ever he wants and speaks what he wants just do not force me to change just to accomodate him.

If they are just visiting the US then I have no problem with anyone speaking any language that they want or feel like speaking. I will be more than happy to help anyone one who wants to visit this wonderful country in any way I can no matter hop difficult. Now on the other hand if they wish to come live here then they should make every attempt to learn the local language and I expect someone moving to their country to do the same thing.

When I lived in France I did my best to learn the local language and the locals were very patient with me as well. Not once did I complain or try to force them to understand English. That is the way it should be. it is only the polite and curtous thing to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup, you said the right things. I actually find it amusing how freely the accusation of racism is thrown around. I mean, it's a long way for someone to simply suggest that one should learn English when living in an English speaking country for one's own benefit and convenience, to being a racist!

[westender]

I don't post here often though I am on this site all the time, and I have been for a few years now. However, when I do post, my reasons are due to an injustice. The greatest irony I see here, is the destruciton of the English language by those whom make themeselves its proponent. Did anyone here take grammar in High School?

[713 To 214]

I don't post here often though I am on this site all the time, and I have been for a few years now.  However,  when I do post, my reasons are due to an injustice.  The greatest irony I see here, is the destruciton of the English language by those whom make themeselves its proponent. Did anyone here take grammar in High School?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That problem is not specific to this forum. The mastery of English grammar has been on the decline in this country for some time. I only expect the problem to become worse with the advent of the internet/email, wherein many tend to use shorthand when communicating. Mastery of the English vocabulary is also a big problem. (There are over 100,000 words in the English vocabulary. The average person uses the same 1500 over and over again) When English-speaking people broaden their vocabularies, they will find it easier to express themselves.

[kzseattle]

The greatest irony I see here, is the destruciton of the English language by those whom make themeselves its proponent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean as in the sentence above? Just kidding! I assume those are typos!

[westender]

You mean as in the sentence above?

[bruce_oneal]

Jesus H. Christ.. Someone get this man a translator - STAT!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hey tw2ntyse7en,

... granted my translation was done by computer. someone else may have a little bit better translation? that's what i got using sherlock (mac translation application)?

[bruce_oneal]

hehe - please, call me Glen. I wasn't referring to you. I should have quoted our Hispanic friend. It was he who I was talking to. Did you by chance use the Altavista translator? I go there when I need a quick translation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok glen.

no ... i realized you were not referring to mein your post ... but i just wondered if my translator did his spanish-->english translation proper justice? i did not want to misquote him or his intended points.

[jmancuso]

there's that 'racist' word being tossed around again. if you can't beat 'em, accuse them of being a bigot...

[Hunter]

Okay I know my spelling and grammer is bad. I cannot hide that. But I have never been very good at putting down to writting what I want to say. LOL.

We can only do our best with what we have.

Besides the general living conditions that the majority of the hispancis seem to enjoy around this city the only real problem that I have with the new wave of immigrants is the language problem.

Personnaly I love the food, art, and many other things as well. I can live with out the music but that ismy personnal choice. I just do not like loud squeaky music (I must be getting old).

I still stand by my last post on this thread.

[Parrothead]

I read the title of this thread and had to laugh.

Picture this: It's 1830, in a little town somewhere west of Houston. There's a man sitting on his porch in a chair, drinking some water and relaxing after a hard days' work of tilling and farming his land. His daughters are sitting in front of him braiding each other's hair and his wife is inside preparing dinner.

Suddenly he sees a group of men on horseback coming through town, wearing the strangest outfits with silly hats. They're quiet and curious. He's seen these men before. Not these exact ones, but similar. They all come through, eventually and they all end up staying. They are dangerous men with strange ways. He is very cautious of them.

He mutters to himself, "Gringos malditos, ellos asumen!"

translation: "Damn yankees, they're taking over!"