Rebuild New Orleans Or Not?

[editor]

Im trying to remember what exactly happend ot Seattle and when? 

I don't exactly remember the catastrophe, either. I think it was a mudslide or something. I remember taking an hour tour through the underground city, though. It was very cool and very creepy. Blocks and blocks and blocks of the fronts of buildings covered in dust and streets that are now basements.

[arche_757]

NO that is a 4 lane causeway - not even sure if it is considered part of the interstate system. Im not sure if that was damaged?

Yes the sunken freeways in Houston are designed to act as floodways (atleast thats the intent now) better to have water in in those for a few days than to flood someones homes.

New Orleans will have to do the exact opposite - since it is below sea level in parts - there freeways will all have to be raised so they dont flood. Im trying to remember I think I-10 is for the most part elevated.

Of course their is the human tragedy -- the humanitarian crisis that has arisen wasnt taken into consideration because with any disaster there are two kinds of devestation Human, and Material - I was simply refering to the material.

[Heights2Bastrop]

Don't forget about Indianola, Texas. It was once a thriving seaport and the seat of Calhoun County. It was hit hard by a hurricane in 1875, but was rebuilt. The town was hit by a second hurricane in 1886. They had the good sense afterwards to abandon the city and move the seat to Port Lavaca.

[arche_757]

Indianola was also a much smaller town than New Orleans - abandoning it was much easier.

I assume we should just abandon Galveston and all of Galveston county when we are hit by the next storm - since rebuilding it would be to hard and costly, not to mention that all those people living there should have been smarter when they picked where they lived. Like you!

[Heights2Bastrop]

I assume we should just abandon Galveston and all of Galveston county when we are hit by the next storm - since rebuilding it would be to hard and costly, not to mention that all those people living there should have been smarter when they picked where they lived. Like you!

Your point is not valid, and your sarcasm is not warranted, nor is it appreciated. If you want to argue the point, fine. But no need to get personal.

Indianola was a very promising town and seaport. It was so highly thought of that the residents decided to rebuild it. After the second storm, they realized the vulnerability of the location, and thus moved the seat to Port Lavaca.

Galveston was intended as a center of commerce because of its natural features as a port. I can only assume that feature overcame the concerns for its safety from storms. When the 1900 storm hit, they raised the island and all its buildings by as much as 11 feet, and built a seawall in the process. They took measures to alleviate the problem, and so far they have been successful.

The only reason New Orleans came into existence in the first place is that it was the highest point of land that was the closest to the mouth of the Mississippi. The spot chosen for the site is, of course, what is now the French Quarter. But the intent of the site was for defensive purposes rather than economic. New Orleans was little more than and island fort in the middle of a swamp.

New Orleans has taken measures as well, but they have not raised the level of the city, which is the only way to prevent what happened with Katrina. Unless they raise the city now, they may never have another chance. And if they don

[arche_757]

A brief history of New Orleans:

New Orleans was first settled by the French - in todays French Quarter they set up a community - not just a defensive settlement New Orleans eventually became the commercial capital of the South. The French Quarter is surrounded by Canal Street on the south west (these cardinal directions may be a little off), North Rampart Street to the northwest, Esplanade Avenue to the northeast, and of course the Mississippi and Decatur Street to the east.

Canal Street was intended to be a canal that would conect the Mississippi to Lake Pontchatrain, Esplanade Avenue (Esplanade Ridge) was a high peice of land that was settled in the early 1800's all the way into the late 1800's by a predomenantly French population. Rampart Street - was the street just inside the fortifications of the city (the walls that made up the fortifications didnt last to long as the city soon outgrew them). The area between these streets is now called the French Quarter and was the economic and social heart of the city for many years (well into the American settlement of the Garden Districts and current CBD). New Orleans had a cathedral, and was the seat of government for all of the Louisiana territory (but its not the oldest settlement - Natchez, Mississippi is - predates it by about 10 years circa~1712 or so). Outside the French Quarter and early city were plantations of wealthy French colonists - called Faubourgs.

One Faubourg in particular was settled shortly after France sold Louisiana to the United States - American settlers soon arrived and were forced to settle their own areas since the French were leary of Americans and looked down on them. The American Sector and Warehouse district soon grew into the new economic heart of New Orleans under American leaders - essentially the persent day CBD incompasses these two areas - the Huey P. Long Bridge and subsequent freeway spur off I-10 form the boundary.

To the south of the American Sector is the Lower Garden District - which lies off of Magazine Street and St. Charles Avenue. This became home to wealthy American citizens and eventually those Americans settled an area known as the Upper Garden District. The French Society was as stated not to keen on their American neighbors so the Americans had to import much of their furniture and other wears from the Eastern Seaborad - ie Boston, New York, Philly, Baltimore, Washington ect... the elaborate society that grew up during the Antibelum South was one of the richest in the country - basically forming their own style of living that today is still seen in the Mansions that line St. Charles Ave.

The french not to be outdone and needing more room to grow - (by the mid 1800's New Orleans was the largest city in the south, and one of Americas largest cities behind New York, Brooklynn, Philly and possibly Boston) began to settle the area known as Esplanade Ridge - along Esplanade Avenue - the street grew by spurts and eventually reached Bayou St. John. Esplanade more than all other avenues is bound along its lenght by historic neighborhoods - Vieux Carre, Marigny, Treme, New Marigny, Faubourgs St. John and Pontchatrain (much of this area is flooded I believe).

Further west of the Upper Garden District is the University Sector home to Tulane and Loyola Universities and the Audubon Park. To the north is the Notre Dame Seminary - east of the Seminary is the only Black Catholic University in the country Xavier University.

Everone of the areas I mentioned above are National Register of Historic Places and Historic Districts - with many wonderful examples of how Americans lived over 150 years ago - the history of the city is probably the richest in the country outside of Boston and perhaps Philadelphia. A whole culture (actually several) are clearly defined in New Orleans - Antebellum, Southern African America, French American and Acadian are all part of and have shaped New Orleans. To simply bulldoze the city down would be a tragedy - and those who have died trying to cling on to their wounded city will have died only to be forgotten like those who came before them. Cities are more than places where many people live they are also repositories of culture and history, and a corner stones of civilization - to ignore that fact is to ignore the progress of society. New Orleans must be rebuilt - but there have to be changes - the New Orleans society which has for centuries ignored or downplayed their neighbors must stop - that is part of the reason the city had/has such a crisis on its hands. The lower portions of the city can be filled in - but what good will that do - perhpas its better to let nature take its course and let those areas be reclaimed by nature - resettle those residents on the Algiers side of the Mississippi which is higher. Perhaps the American Sector can be filled in by multi-story buildigns highenough to keep people from flooding. It may cost billions and it may put this country in a hole for a while - but New Orleans absolutely must, MUST, be rebuilt/cleaned up/ and re-invigorated to the city that it was (or atleast close to it), to not do so would be nearly as criminal as what happend to many of the cities poor after the levees broke.

The info on the sections and Faubourgs of New Orleans is mainly from New Orleans Architecture - volumes I, II, V, VIII - purchased from a nice little independent bookseller off of Magazine Street in the Lower Garden District - which one day I hope to return to buy volumes III, IV, VI, VII in the series.

[ssullivan]

I don't exactly remember the catastrophe, either.  I think it was a mudslide or something.  I remember taking an hour tour through the underground city, though.  It was very cool and very creepy.  Blocks and blocks and blocks of the fronts of buildings covered in dust and streets that are now basements.

Seattle's main problem was that like New Orleans, it was at too low of elevation. Most of the original city was where Seattle's downtown is now and was built on marsh land. The wealthier neighborhoods were located on a ridgeline above the downtown area. This caused the sewage from residential areas to flow downhill through a rudimentary plumbing system that included wooden sewage pipes elevated above the streets downtown. The sewage then dumped into Puget Sound. The problem with this was that when the tide came in, all the crap flowed into downtown Seattle. The low water table of the downtown area also caused potholes to develop in the streets which then filled with water. Some of these ended up being quite deep, and some people drowned from falling into them. Mudslides were also becoming more common as the timber on the ridgeline above the downtown area was cleared out, which caused rainwater to run into the downtown area. In addition to all this, much of the city caught fire and burned. Finally the decision was made to terrace the cliff area that was above downtown, then use that dirt to fill in downtown and raise its elevation. As downtown was being rebuilt from the fire, a plan of constructing retaining walls along the streets, filling the streets to raise their elevation, and building new sidewalks at the height of the buildings' second floors was implemented. The result was that the elevation of downtown Seattle was raised 10-15 feet. Buildings that survived the fire or were rebuilt before their streets were elevated had their ground levels elevated to the second floor, making the original ground floors basement areas. The old sidewalks were left intact under teh new sidewalks, creating an underground shopping area. This continued for several decades, until changing economic conditions and concerns about crime and safety led to the closure of access to the underground sidewalks and shops.

The Underground Seattle tour is quite interesting, and something I recommend if you're visiting the area. It's dark, dingy, and dirty, and you may even see a few stray rodents, but it's a lot of fun and full of tales of the city's history.

[davy_jones_locker]

Okay, maybe as a relatively recent (February '05) resident of metro Houston, I don't know the region as well as some of the others... and to my eternal regret we didn't get a chance to visit NOLA before this happened.

However, the sheer scale of this thing is many times greater than 9-11, with all due respect to the victims of that event. And having read and seen parts of Galveston and what it went through, I absolutely agree that New Orleans should be partly relocated inwardly, but most definitely rebuilt. Maybe it will be smaller, maybe it will have less people, maybe maybe whatever... but it absolutely should be rebuilt as a monument to our hubris and complacency, and because of its place as one of America's great, unique places. We rebuilt Chicago after the Great Fire, didn't we? Oh, and London repaired after a Blitz, and their own Great Fire. How about San Francisco after 1906? It's still on a big faultline the last time I checked. The French Quarter should be a protected historical site and money should be put into building an appropriate museum a la the USS Arizona in Pearl Harbor.

And as for people not wanting to live on toxic waste dumps, the lack of proper plumbing and sanitation isn't stopping anyone from living on the edge of Texas, is it?

Just wait and see whether the toxic land in the greater Friendswood area gets used for housing, with this massive need for homes.

Also, I hope that those who feel "New Orleans should never be rebuilt" will temper HOW they discuss this. There are literally millions of people who have lost their birthplace, their hometown, the places where they fell in love, worked their first job, and went to school. If you must write off the town, please show some respect for their memories and experiences. Not doing so could make their pain worse, kill off some of the hope folks do have.

[Heights2Bastrop]

Seattle's main problem was that like New Orleans, it was at too low of elevation. Most of the original city was where Seattle's downtown is now and was built on marsh land.

It

[arche_757]

Seattle is quite hilly not far from the water front. The Pike Place market and other old parts of the warehouses that line the warfs and waterfront are on a relativly flat piece of land - but its all up hill from there. Although the area around Saefco Field may be what was being refered to.

[houstonfella]

And I'm thinking more less than 60-90 days for they get ship back to louisiana shelters. As long they stay here, the more crime it will be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So far, no crime probs in Houston. Houstonians have responded in a Texas-sized way. My heart goes out to the victims of the hurricane. My pocketbook does too. I feel for them. One couple from that area saved some children from a Houston fire. When God closes one door, another one opens.

[ssullivan]

Seattle is quite hilly not far from the water front.  The Pike Place market and other old parts of the warehouses that line the warfs and waterfront are on a relativly flat piece of land - but its all up hill from there.  Although the area around Saefco Field may be what was being refered to.

You are right that Seattle is quite hilly near the waterfront. However, I'm talking about along the waterfront and inland about a 1/4-1/2 mile from the edge of Puget Sound. This is where the original city was built. Also, much of the area of downtown Seattle just west of Interstate 5 that is currently characterized by steep inclines was originally at a much lower elevation. The area where the interstate is now used to be along the edge of a steep cliff that dropped almost straight down to the low-lying tidelands. This ridgeline was lowered and then terraced to create a less severe incline during the time when Seattle's downtown area was rebuilt and raised in elevation. The reason downtown Seattle doesn't appear to be that low-lying today is because of the massive effort to raise the area's elevation. It wasn't always that way though.

As for examples of tidal marshes that still exist along Puget Sound, there are several large areas between Tacoma and Olympia, as well as at the southern tip of the Sound in Olympia.

[kjb434]

New Orleans will most probably not get filled nor will people necessarily build house and roads higher. The simplest fix is to build a larger higher levee system. This can be done. The majority of the Levees are fine. The levees along the Mississippi River down towards the mouth are in great condition according the Corps reporting.

Fixing these levees will be the first thing to and improving them next. Many of US don't realized how important the city is economically to the US (and I'm not considering oil). The port of New Orleans handles so much and the industrial complexes downstream and upstream handles so much cargo.

Even the Port of Mississippi in Gulfport handled lots of cargo.

Much of this will be rerouted, but not all of it can.

[pineda]

I'm wondering if after this is all behind us, that when people decide to move back into such low-lying areas like NOLA, if the feds will demand that people get flood insurance/renters insurance/home insurance before they're allowed to live there because this particular crisis will end up costing the feds so much money.

[kjb434]

If you ever look at a FEMA Flood Insurance Rate Maps (FIRM) for the New Orleans and much of southern Louisiana, you'll notice they are shaded a grayish color and there is a warning that I'm paraphrasing as:

If the levees fail you will be flooded for the 100-year event.

This also applies to several areas of Fort Bend County also.

Also, much of the development along Galveston Bay have very little protection from storm surges. To my knowledge, Galveston Island and Texas City have levees. Texas City is also barely above sea level and would not exist without it's levees.

Kemah doesn't have any storm surge protection. New Orleans is not the only city that lives on the edge of danger.

Luckily the two critical areas of New Orleans (downtown and french quarter) does not have damage to point of complete destruction. Much of the office buildings can be up in running fairly easily. The biggest damage seems to be windows broken. The Superdome and Convention Center are two different stories.

The port facilities along the Mississippi River can go back into opertation soon since most of them are elevated above see level. The port facilities along the Industrial Canal will need some cleanup, but these areas have flooded before and can come back. These are the back bones to the economy in Orleans Parish. Much of the Jefferson Parish, and St. Charles Parish economic centers faired well and can be up and running as soon as power and water are restored. St Bernard and Plaquemine Parish had much more destructive flooding to there economic base.

Outside of this, the hard part is establishing residences back in the city. I like the concept floating around (mentioned on the Houston Strategies Blog) about identifying all the disaster area (Mississippi and Alabama too) as an economic reinvestment zone. This way, private entities can rebuild the city without the horrific red tape of the governement.

[tamtagon]

The city must be rebuilt.

[Jeebus]

New Orleans is big.. sorta - but really not that big.

I would hope that the renaissance would begin around the French Quarter, and work its way west along the Mississippi. These oldest neighborhoods were there first for a reason - they have the highest elevation.

As for everything north of I-10, they might be better off bulldozing, raising, and then rebuilding. The benefit could be a more dense, pedestrian friendly AND architecturally pleasing New-New Orleans.

[RedScare]

New Orleans is big.. sorta - but really not that big.

As for everything north of I-10, they might be better off bulldozing, raising, and then rebuilding. The benefit could be a more dense, pedestrian friendly AND architecturally pleasing New-New Orleans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Jeebus]

- Thats the same face ol' Glass Joe makes when you knock him out in Mike Tyson's PunchOut for Nintendo!

Anyway..

Have you seen the aerials? Everything north of I-10 is flooded. Some areas as deep as 10 feet. You can't really renovate a 10 foot flooded home.

Post Katrina Aerial

Everything north of I-10 is a wasteland. Infact everything southwest is too - but considering that its Carrollton, I'd hate to see it razed..

"..There is a house in New Orleans, some call the Rising Sun.."

[RedScare]

I guess you're saying that NOW it is a wasteland. In that sense, I agree with you. As a New Orleans expert stated, "Every New Orleans neighborhood is historic", so I hate the thought of a wholesale razing of neighborhoods. Rarely, does that produce any architecturally significant construction. Additionally, each of the homes in the neighborhood is individually owned, so each owner has a huge say in how his home is treated. Razing sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice, I don't know how they would do it, unless it is a mass condemnation.

[Guest Mr. X]

NO is an environmental disaster. I wonder if all the people that say NO MUST be rebuilt would be willing to live there themselves.

Would you expose YOUR children to toxic waste?

Who would want to build a house and re-relocate their family on a toxic, sinking piece of land that is already several feet below sea level? God knows what kind of chemicals and bacteria will be saturated in the ground for years to come.

Those who are saying NO should be rebuilt right where it is should be the first to set up residence there.

[Jeebus]

Razing sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice, I don't know how they would do it, unless it is a mass condemnation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. I'd especially hate to see Lakeview & Gentilly go but.... a condemned area is a condemned area. Besides, these are the two "newest" neighborhoods anyway, so the "least" is lost architecturally.

As for Bywater, Ninth Ward & Midcity.. Well, lets just say that that's not much there to rebuild except Goverment Housing/Apartments & Shotguns (shacks).

If anything, pour the rebuild money into the southern part of the city. It naturally sits higher on the levee, and the oldest neighborhoods are there between Carrollton & the French Quarter.

Then, clear the rest of the city, and piece by piece reconstruct New Orleans. I know it sounds hokey and disney-esque, but deed-restrict the hell out of the new land and allow only certain architecture in certain areas to recreate what was lost.

I know some people will disagree with that, but if you don't, then you'll get a Cinco Ranch for the north-side of New Orleans - at least by the time the developers get through with it.

[Jeebus]

NO is an environmental disaster. I wonder if all the people that say NO MUST be rebuilt would be willing to live there themselves.

Would you expose YOUR children to toxic waste?

Who would want to build a house and re-relocate their family on a toxic, sinking piece of land that is already several feet below sea level? God knows what kind of chemicals and bacteria will be saturated in the ground for years to come.

Those who are saying NO should be rebuilt right where it is should be the first to set up residence there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no no no no.. most of the petroleum based chemicals will be pumped out with the flood water, and the sewage will settle if they turn the earth.

I don't think its a Chrenobyl.

And YES, if I could afford it, I would love to build in New-New Orleans.

[citykid09]

You guys should here this, New Orleans residence are calling Houston the land of "Milk and Honey." The Interview is on Yahoo news. Just type in Houston on Yahoos home page then cilck the news section and over on the right side there is a taped voice interview (no video) and the person talks good of Houston.

Under the: NEWS AUDIO/VIDEO

"Houston may become permanent home for many evacuees."

[arche_757]

Hmmm... funny all of those chemicals were there prior to Katrina stricking that area.

Im sure that wouldnt stop me from moving back - that is after all their home. If a similar flood hit Houston and flood waters carying all of the toxins and filth eventually recided wouldnt you come back? I would - because its my home.

[eelimon]

Hmmm... funny all of those chemicals were there prior to Katrina stricking that area.

Im sure that wouldnt stop me from moving back - that is after all their home.  If a similar flood hit Houston and flood waters carying all of the toxins and filth eventually recided wouldnt you come back?  I would - because its my home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YEP!