bachanon Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 responsive parents will often get behind a student's chosen cause in order for their child to feel a greater sense of purpose and/or community. when kids get a passion, or a sense of mission about something, it's good to jump on it and support it. one active parent can make a huge difference.i wouldn't poo poo t-shirts for students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxDave Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) I saw a news story (KHOU - Reggie Aqui) on Thursday morning (8/24) about the River Oaks and Alabama Theaters going before some city board that day for preservation protection based on a strong petition. Any news on the outcome of this meeting?The report seemed to indicate that the city board could provide a 90 day reprieve, but ultimately the property owner has the final say in what happens.I think it would be extremely unfortunate for Houston to lose not only these theaters, but any of the original portions of the River Oaks shopping center. The 30's art deco center has survived and thrived for so long, it should be cherished and protected.There are plenty of nearby locations where the proposed development could be built and incorporated into the neighborhood without destroying a significant landmark of the city and its history.(I suspect that my views have probably already been expressed thoroughly, but I could not help but add my two cents to this topic!) Edited August 25, 2006 by TxDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgg Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Buried deep inside today's Chronicle -- the city's Archaeological and Historical Commission weighs in:http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4140539.htmlAlso, here's a story I did on the Alabama a couple of weeks ago. With nice old photos, including a very '80s Rocky Horror crew. (Sorry I didn't post the link when the story ran; I was out of town.)http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ent/movies/4098093.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) Buried deep inside today's Chronicle -- the city's Archaeological and Historical Commission weighs in:http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4140539.htmlI love the statement The letter, addressed to Weingarten CEO Drew Alexander, carried no threat of city action. Councilmember Peter Brown touted himself as someone who would address this issue and make changes which would preserve our historical structures. So far NOTHING. Edited August 25, 2006 by musicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilioScotia Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) I love the statement The letter, addressed to Weingarten CEO Drew Alexander, carried no threat of city action. Councilmember Peter Brown touted himself as someone who would address this issue and make changes which would preserve our historical structures. So far NOTHING.That's because no city action CAN be taken. There is NOTHING Houston City Council can do to stop Weingarten Realty from doing whatever it wants to do with its property. It can only plead with the company to not demolish the River Oaks Theater. Furthermore, the Historical Preservation Board that met yesterday is not a city agency, or even an arm of the city government. It's a private group with no authority, and all it can do is advocate and encourage historical preservation. Houston will never have a preservation ordinance with any teeth in it, because developers are calling the shots at city hall. Developers have always controlled this city -- since it was founded in 1836 -- and if they don't want something to happen, it doesn't happen. They don't want a strong preservation ordinance because it would put limits on their laissez-faire ability to do whatever they want to do.So we can sit around weeping, wailing, gnashing our teeth and wringing our hands till the cows come home over another landmark getting the wrecking ball, but it's not going to change anything. Welcome to Houston. Baghdad on the bayou. How about those Astros? Edited August 25, 2006 by FilioScotia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgg Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Actually, the Houston Archaeological and Historical Commission *is* a City of Houston entity. Here's the web site:http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/commissions/arch.htmYou might be confusing it with the similar-sounding Greater Houston Preservation Alliance, or maybe Historic Houston. (Those are both nonprofits.)The city commission has only feeble powers, but I believe that even under current laws, it could make Weingarten more uncomfortable. The commission could, for instance, recommend that City Council to designate buildings as historic landmarks -- even though the owner hasn't applied. That's never happened before.I believe Weingarten could still maneuver around that designation, and would be able to raze the buildings. But it would at least have to file public notice of those intentions months before bulldozers arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Am I the only one who thinks this is payback from Weingartens for being mean to their poor little daughther, Lea Fastow, of Enron fame?Think about it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyps Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 That NPR story this morning got me to wondering...They mentioned this commission might be offering tax reprieves in exchange for a historical status. Could that have been the end game? Historical status isn't that easy to get I think, and the ROT is not THAT old, or THAT significant. Maybe they planned the "demolition" to get a public outcry to save the theater, and therefore...taxes.Too much conspiracy theory??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwrm4 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I think the best analogy to what Weingarten is probably doing is shaking up a Coke can, letting a bit of bubbles out, shaking it up again, letting a few more bubbles out, and then one day, at night, when the Coke is flat, in come the bulldozers, and no one is going to have the energy or interest to fight it. I hate to see both sites demo'd, but I'm pretty sure it will happen eventually. This is a developer's city, as others have noted.My grandfather was president of the National Association of Couny Engineers in the 1960s, and he told me on one occasion he was invited down to Houston by some of the county staff to lead a workshop about implementing zoning rules, neighborhood preservation, and creating "neighborhood-friendly" roads and freeways. So he came to Houston, set-up the workshop, and the second it started, the "County Judge" walked in the room, told the participants to "get the hell back to their jobs" and told my grandfather that he had "5 minutes to get the hell out of Houston, and 2 hours to get the hell out of Texas, becuase we're gonna do damn well what we please in this town".The few times he's been to Houston since, it's a non-stop commentary from him about "what could have been". As much as we'd like to think otherwise, I don't think much has really changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) That NPR story this morning got me to wondering...They mentioned this commission might be offering tax reprieves in exchange for a historical status. Could that have been the end game? Historical status isn't that easy to get I think, and the ROT is not THAT old, or THAT significant. Maybe they planned the "demolition" to get a public outcry to save the theater, and therefore...taxes. Too much conspiracy theory??? whaaa? national register status has tax breaks too - i don't think they were "bargaining" - more or less reminding these folks that there are financial incentives to keeping properties like these upright. for historical status, the property must be fifty years old (and there are exceptions) and be associated with something "significant" (architecture, event, person, and so forth). it wouldn't be that hard to at least nominate the property - the hard part would be getting weingarten to go along with it Edited August 25, 2006 by sevfiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo1976 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 So he came to Houston, set-up the workshop, and the second it started, the "County Judge" walked in the room, told the participants to "get the hell back to their jobs" and told my grandfather that he had "5 minutes to get the hell out of Houston, and 2 hours to get the hell out of Texas, becuase we're gonna do damn well what we please in this town".Wow. I wonder if he was referring to Hofheinz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilioScotia Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 (edited) Wow. I wonder if he was referring to Hofheinz.Not in the 1960s. You have to go back a lot farther than that to find Roy's buttprints on the County Judge's chair. He served two terms as County Judge from 1936 through 1944, and he was mayor for a time in the 50s. The County Judge you're thinking about was Bill Elliott, a man so mediocre he was beloved by hack politicians everywhere because he made them all look so good. He was County Judge from 1961 till 1975. He was followed by John Lindsay, another mediocrity who served 20 years until the current County Judge, Robert Eckels, who is not a mediocrity, was elected in 1995. Eckels is a politician just like everybody else in government, but he does take care of business. He's afflicted with the odd notion that he should actually do the job he was elected to do. Whoever heard of such a thing!!??Am I the only one who thinks this is payback from Weingartens for being mean to their poor little daughther, Lea Fastow, of Enron fame?Think about it....No, I don't think so. Because Weingarten Realty has been doing this same sort of thing for years, long before Lea Weingarten Fastow did her short stretch in the big house. Tearing down and rebuilding seems to be the modus operandi for the current generation of Weingartens. This is the bunch that sold their family patriarch's much loved supermarket chain to Safeway in the 70s. History and tradition mean nothing to them. If something isn't increasing their bottom line they don't want it. Besides, it wasn't Houston that was "mean" to her. Or even the Houston U-S Attorney's office. It was those awful old federal prosecutors from Washington. Nobody from Houston was involved in the prosecution, because so many people in the local U-S Attorney's office had legal, business, and even family relationships with Enron. Even the local U-S Attorney had to recuse himself and let Washington handle it because his wife worked at Enron. Edited August 26, 2006 by FilioScotia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 weingarten has confirmed "considerations" for the renovation of the north side of shopping area on west gray, via a letter sent to the GHPA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgg Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Chronicle story about Carolyn Farb's protest and other efforts to save the three buildings:http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4153487.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Buried in the fine print in the article:Hours before Farb's event, Weingarten issued a statement indicating that the River Oaks theater building is in no immediate danger, but affirming Weingarten's interest in the "redevelopment" of the northeast corner of Shepherd and West Gray. The statement did not mention the Alabama Theatre.According to the statement, the new development at River Oaks Shopping Center would be anchored by "a key retail player." (Shopping-center tenants say they've been told that Barnes & Noble would occupy the first two floors of a new three-story building.)"If we are able to finalize the anchor deal," said the statement, "the additional retail will not be located in the River Oaks Movie Theatre block."A representative for Weingarten could not clarify the statement late Wednesday.So it sounds like the River Oaks Theater will be saved, but, typically, Weingarten won't exactly commit itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo1976 Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 What's keeping Weingarten or the architect from releasing site plans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Here's today's update from the Chronicle, which by the way has done a really good job of keeping on this story. Good work Lisa! The CEO of Weingarten has finally deigned to speak on the subject, saying that they are open to ideas, as long as the ideas make money, and yes they might raze the River Oaks. Highrises are indeed being considered for both the Alabama and River Oaks theater locations. He makes a stab at preservation by token gesture, saying that the facade or even the auditorium could be preserved within the highrise, although that would be "expensive and problematic" due to the need for a parking garage. The important thing is, "whatever the new use... it would have to bolster the shopping center's viability as a high-end destination." Psychic Subdude predicts you can kiss both theaters goodbye. Really the most infuriating statement he makes is "We try to be good corporate citizens." Baloney. Sept. 1, 2006, 8:46AMWeingarten firm offers hope for 'endangered' theater sites Company says it would consider options to save historic buildings By LISA GRAY Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle Weingarten Realty Investors is open to ideas for saving the River Oaks Theatre and the former Alabama Theatre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Here's today's update from the Chronicle, which by the way has done a really good job of keeping on this story. Good work Lisa! The CEO of Weingarten has finally deigned to speak on the subject, saying that they are open to ideas, as long as the ideas make money, and yes they might raze the River Oaks. Highrises are indeed being considered for both the Alabama and River Oaks theater locations. He makes a stab at preservation by token gesture, saying that the facade or even the auditorium could be preserved within the highrise, although that would be "expensive and problematic" due to the need for a parking garage. The important thing is, "whatever the new use... it would have to bolster the shopping center's viability as a high-end destination." Psychic Subdude predicts you can kiss both theaters goodbye. Really the most infuriating statement he makes is "We try to be good corporate citizens." Baloney. Sept. 1, 2006, 8:46AMWeingarten firm offers hope for 'endangered' theater sites Company says it would consider options to save historic buildings By LISA GRAY Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle Weingarten Realty Investors is open to ideas for saving the River Oaks Theatre and the former Alabama Theatre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo1976 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 From the article: The River Oaks Theatre's current occupant, Landmark Theatres, has time left on its lease, Alexander said. He speculated that the art-movie chain would not be able to pay market rates for the location when the lease comes up for renewal.This is disturbing.A residential or office tower on the site, Alexander said, "would do a lot of cool things both for the shopping center and for city life. It would be more of a 24-hour destination. You could have sidewalk dining." Sidewalk dining. Well I'm sold, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnu Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 (edited) A residential or office tower on the site, Alexander said, "would do a lot of cool things both for the shopping center and for city life. It would be more of a 24-hour destination. You could have sidewalk dining. Geee...the last i checked there WAS sidewalk dining - right next door to the river oaks theater. and they show midnight movies at the RO. What kind of 24hr destination do they want there from 2am to 6am??? IHOP takes over the black eyed pea spot. Wala! They don't have to tear down anything. What a joke Edited September 1, 2006 by gnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Wasn't the old One's-a-Meal next to the River Oaks Theater open 24 hours? But then Weingarten chased them out because they weren't "upscale" enough, ie a "high-end destination". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 yep, it's a crock.river oaks theater isn't ritzy enough, and if it remains a theater, it would need to be an "upscale dinner theater, with cocktails."the really great part is that the alabama is wanted for a highrise, too:"In the long term, the company is considering high-rise development of the two theater sites" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmer Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Yeah, and they need "residential" to make it an upscale destination. Last I looked the ROC was bounded on all sides by upscale residential. And that sidewalk dining -- just what we need in 90 degree weather! Smell those diesel fumes!This is just like what p***es me off about the Village development. Killing perfectly viable businesses, which have been making money for dozens of years, by artificially raising rents due to "market value."I think I'm going to go to Allrecords and buy some music from Fred while I still can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Why are these the only spots where they can put condo towers? Is there something about historic movie theaters that makes them the perfect locations for condo towers? What about all the gas stations and crap that are in that area? Why the historic movie theaters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgg Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Lisa Gray here, dutifully identifying herself as the reporter from the Chronicle....Now I'm looking for adaptive reuses of old theaters. I've found tons of performing-arts venues around the country, and a handful of bookstores. (Mostly started by the old Bookstop chain, now apparently being abandoned by Barnes & Noble.) There's a Restoration Hardware or two out there.But do you know of any other good ones? Especially things that are able to hold their own on expensive real estate?Post them here, or drop me a line. I'd be grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Hey Lisa,Thanks for all your hard work and for keeping this story in the headlines. I certainly appreciate it!Here are some things that have happened to old Boston theaters. Luckily, the college/university scene has really helped keep some of the old grand theaters around. Special kudos goes to Emerson College. Their restoration work has been amazing!The Metropolitan is now the home to the Wang Center for the Performing Arts. Completely restored. Shows small concerts like Annie Lennox to the Nutcracker at Christmas.The Tremont is now a Jewish Temple. Facade has been saved as well as original balcony.The Orpheum is now a VERY successful concert venue. The Cheri is now a popular restaurant (SummerShack) and hip bar/lounge/bowling alley (King's). The interior was gutted but the exterior remains the same, including the Marque.The Savoy is now the new Opera House, which shows touring Broadway plays. Completely restored. Beautiful. Cinema57 is now the Stuart Street Playhouse. Home to Blue Man Group. Quite popular with tourists.The Exeter is now a Montessori School. Not sure how the renovations turned out as it just happened after it sat vacant for years.The Symphony is now home to Boston University's School of Theater.The Majestic is now home to Emerson College's Theater. It's also a performance hall for the community. Completely restored, including the original stain glass facade that was uncovered by the college. The Fenway is now home to Berklee College of Music's Performance Hall. Open to the public and a great cheap date place to catch up and coming musicians from the school. Really great jazz played here.The Paramount is Emerson College's newest project. Creating two performance halls out of the old two screen theater and adding a 15 story dorm to the empty lot next door. The college is working with local historians to rehab it correctly.Copley Place is now home to Boston's first Barney's of New York store. To be fair, this theater was built inside a mall and it isn't "historic."So, it seems that the best options would be to hit up local colleges (UST, Rice, UH, TSU???) or theater groups like TUTS, Alley, Stages, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo1976 Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 (edited) Lisa,Not sure if it's what you're looking for, but you might want to try the folks with the Nickelodeon Theatre here in Columbia, SC. They've purchased a 1930s-era theater downtown and hope to restore it to show art house films.http://www.nickelodeon.org/fox.php Edited September 2, 2006 by gonzo1976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soifan Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 (edited) I think I'm going to go to Allrecords and buy some music from Fred while I still can.I've been following this post w/ interest since I'm a native Houstonian and love the River Oaks shopping area. I also have a great memory of seeing Casablanca there for the first time in high school w/ a friend. I've also been following it b/c Fred (Uncle Bob to me -still makes me smile to hear him called Fred - can't remember how that started) is my uncle and Allrecords his lifelong work. He's had that store (was at different spot) as long as I can remember. I also loved his record room at their old house as a kid. It was an amazing collection! Anyway, hearing him and his store mentioned made me smile. I missed him last few trips to RO, so your post has inspired me to go down before it's too late. Thanks. Edited September 2, 2006 by soifan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Something I'm curious about. Weingarten insists it has to be a "high-end destination" to make economic sense. Are they currently losing money on the theater? It's hard to see how the place survived in business for more than 60 years, and then now all of a sudden it has become this terrible economic burden on Weingarten. What is it that has changed to make them want to demolish it? I keep thinking it's out of spite as much as economics. "If people want to raise money and continue operating it as an upscale dinner theater, with cocktails, then great," he said. *barf* This guy's remarks are so fatuous, on so many levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Something I'm curious about. Weingarten insists it has to be a "high-end destination" to make economic sense. Are they currently losing money on the theater? It's hard to see how the place survived in business for more than 60 years, and then now all of a sudden it has become this terrible economic burden on Weingarten. What is it that has changed to make them want to demolish it? I keep thinking it's out of spite as much as economics. *barf* This guy's remarks are so fatuous, on so many levels.i think what weingarten means is that the potential for higher leases exist in the area and/or the current structures do not allow for larger stores with more square footage. it is a hotspot and they want to capitalize on it. it must not be meeting their particular profit margin requirements.it would be a great opportunity for weingarten to be a good community partner and forego the "expected" or "potential" profit margin. it would be a good opportunity to preserve history and increase profits. it might take extra planning or delayed profits. it can be made to work and has in other cities. weingarten simply does not have the will to do it.my opinion of weingarten will forever be influenced with how they deal with this property and the alabama theater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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