Feeder Roads

[tomv]

After spending last weekend in the Virginia Beach/Norfolk area, I couldn't help but notice again the contrast between our freeways and freeways almost everywhere else in the country: No feeder roads! Up there, the freeways are lined with trees, and there is almost no commercial development alongside them. In fact, the local paper published a directory of car dealers, and not one was located on a freeway. Not one! They're all on major cross streets, boulevards, and other thoroughfares. Contrast that with Houston.

I love our city and I'm a native, but it's no wonder that people who drive through on the interstates think our city's ugly. Billboards, strip centers, warehouses, vacant buildings, ugh!

This whole issue of feeder roads and how they came to be so prevelant in Houston is covered in depth in the excellent Houston Freeways book. Apparently, Dallas/Fort Worth, San Antonio,and Houston are the only cities in the country where they are so widespread. Can anything be done now, or are we doomed forever to have freeways lined with everything under the sun, while other cities enjoy beautiful tree-lined parkways?

[MidtownCoog]

Yep, well I drive the Beltway around the District a lot from BWI to DUL, and they are a major pain in my arse IMHO.

Pretty? Maybe.

Convenient? No way.

Driving five miles into town for gas is counter productive.

[tomv]

Yes, service roads are convenient for motorists and no doubt good for business.

I'm just concerned about the visual blight that they tend to create alongside our freeways. Thank God efforts have been made to beautify some sections of the freeways. I like what they did on 59 as it passes through Sugar Land.

BTW, while I was up there, I noticed something alongside the freeway called "Mt Trashmore". It's a park made out of a giant mound of recycled trash! A while back, there was a discussion of building a hill in Houston. Maybe we could do

something like this.

Mt Trashmore

[CDeb]

It's all well and good to have nice looking freeways.

But a freeway's primary function is to move people safely and efficiently where they need to go. If the freeway can look pretty and still accomplish those objectives, then knock yourself out.

[ssullivan]

As much as I love those tree-lined freeways without the clutter of gas stations, motels, cheap furniture stores, fast food joints, and adult bookstores lining the frontage roads like we have here, I must say I agree with MidtownCoog on this one. It is extremely frustrating when you're trying to get to an airport for a flight home in a rental car that needs the tank refilled right before you return it, and you have to drive way off the freeway to find a gas station. Likewise, finding food when cruising down one of those interstates can be somewhat inconvenient as well.

[kjb434]

I also hate to say the word "doomed" in refering that the feeders roads are a "blight". To some yes, to many other its a great convenience.

I love our feeder road system and the rows of businesses and strips centers. And I'm not being sarcastic.

[Subdude]

Bear in mind that the interstates were never intended to be commercial strips. I understand the argument for convenience, but there are other factors that have to be considered as well. Making freeways "convenient" by lining them with strip centers also increases the inconvenience of the freeway by increasing traffic, reducing speeds, and causing visual blight. I have also had to deal with finding food and gas in unfamiliar cities many times, but frankly it's never been that big of a problem. You just find an exit. A single-minded focus on "convenient" access to junky car lots, Applebees, and motels is all fine and good, but bear in mind how it costs us in reputation. Ugliness was the big factor in dealing us out of the Olympics. It will be hard to improve the city if all we ever do is sit around and tell ourselves that everything is just perfect the way it is. We can always aim a little higher.

[MidtownCoog]

Ugliness was the big factor in dealing us out of the Olympics

That's urban legend!

We touted our sports facilities way too much, and failed to spotlight our cultural aspects.

Have you seen London? LOTS of ugly over there, too. And they get the Olympics.

[westguy]

Maybe I-45 is so ugly because there's a lot of traffic, but not a lot of infill between Houston and the Woodlands.

[Subdude]

That's urban legend!

We touted our sports facilities way too much, and failed to spotlight our cultural aspects.

Have you seen London?  LOTS of ugly over there, too.  And they get the Olympics.

You can't just write off everything negative as an "urban legend". It's like the pollution. Why would the Chronicle have lied about what the Olmpic committee rep told them? Man, the denial runs deep sometimes. Why should it be so hard to admit that there are things that could be improved? We can comfort ourselves by denying all day long, but that won't change how others, rightly or wrongly, perceive us.

Yes of course London has a lot of ugly, but apparently the Olympics Committee thought there were sufficient positives to compensate.

[MidtownCoog]

I read the recomendations from the USOC.

They said we dropped the ball by not promoting our Arts scene.

We were hyper-obsessed with the compactness of our proposal, rail, and our facilities.

[MidtownCoog]

And for those worried about ugly freeway, just think how much better they could look without billboards.

That is 90% of the problem.

[HoustonianInColorado]

There is definitely a place for parkways, but I have to say one thing I miss about Houston is the convenient feeder streets. I also think the best improvement was the U-Turn lanes just before the intersections. Whoever came up with that innovation deserves a traffic engineering award. In an urban environment, you cannot beat those feeders.

[lowspark]

I'm not sure why we lost the olympics -- maybe it was our "ugly" freeways!

But...

--- Give me the convenience of our feeder roads any day! Yeah, we definitely could pretty them up, and in fact some of that is definitely going on (have you seen the planting they've been doing along the sides of the west loop between the s. loop & 59?). Ugly can be fixed -- lack of feeders is permanent.

--- And, as a side note, it would have been great if Houston had gotten the Olympics on our first try, but what's wrong with us learning from experience and trying again?

[VelvetJ]

It will be hard to improve the city if all we ever do is sit around and tell ourselves that everything is just perfect the way it is.  We can always aim a little higher.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^^^^^

For THIS is the statement of the year! Amen, Amen, and Amen.

Regarding the Olympics, I'm not sure exactly what caused us to loose it, although I do have my own personal ideas, but I do believe the appearance of our city was indeed a factor. I also remember during the SuperBowl a woman from Boston was interviewed who had just arrived downtown from Intercontinental, and she was asked what she thought so far. I distinctly remember her saying the city was dirtier than she had expected. I was like WHAT?!?!. Didn't they clean up those stetches of I-45 North and South? They even planted vegetation. Then it struck me that although I-45 North could be clear of trash itself, the actual appearance of the billboards, and the single story motels, and the tractor rental places, and the bean bag company, and the fast food joints, and the abandoned car dealerships, etc., can give a vistitor to our city a ugly impression which some translate as trashy. The Olympic committe saw the same thing.

I also recall that after Houston made it to the second round, we were advised on how to make our bid better. We were told we needed to highlight our attractions more. From what I recall, our Houston 2012 committee said, "Will do". We went BACK to improve on this and get ready for the next round. So my question is what happened? It's really hard to believe our committee did not take heed and do as they were told.......or was it a case of they COULDN'T do what they were told due to the fact that we had ALREADY highlighted our attractions (cultural, educational, and recreational) as much as we could. What could citizens of London, Paris, Moscow, Tokyo, New York, San Francisco, and Barcelona come to Houston and be impressed with culturally? What do we have in general that would knock those people's socks off? What if they wanted to check out some of our most interesting neighborhoods? Could they conveniently do so? And once there, could they enjoy the experience? What if they wanted to check out the History of our city by taking in some of our landmark Historical areas and sites? What are they and where are they? Are they convenient to get to?

As much as we love Houston, we have a long way to go and the sooner we realize this, the better. Find out what the world view as "World Class", and go for it.

[MidtownCoog]

Velvet,

First off, Atlanta had the Olypics. Name one thing Atlanta has that will "knock those people's socks off?"

And London's Olypic Village is going to be built in the equilivant of Houston's East End.

Southeast London is dirty, run-down and by no-means pretty.

[kjb434]

^^^

Atlanta besides a Coke Museum, a tour of CNN, Stone Moutain (its a carving people, that's it), and the cyclorama (kind of neat) has not much else except for some hills.

Houston is pretty much on par with Atlanta. Truthfully, when comes down to the end, the IOC is looking for profits and how much the city will give them. Olympic organization makes the UN look like a saintly bunch (UN makes our congressmen look like a saintly bunch).

I'm glad we didn't get the Olympics. The trouble is not worth it. We have international notoriety already. Maybe not for international tourists, but definitely for international business. Which is quite more important than the tourists.

London is using the Olympics as a means to finish revitalizing there southeast region.

[Subdude]

They're never going to publicly criticize cities and give official reasons why their Olympics bid loses. The paper reported that one of the visitors on the selection committee let it slip at a dinner that Houston had lost due to the ugliness factor. Can we ever prove it? No, but it seems plausible. London and Atlanta really don't have anything to do with it. Trash-talking London doesn't improve our prospects one bit.

[MidtownCoog]

Nobody is trash-talking London.

I travel there every five weeks for business, and was there when the Olympic Commite visited in February.

Every city has chamber of commerce post card locations, just like every city has some pretty ugly parts of town.

We should start by picking up trash in the city center. I took light rail during lunch today for a banh mi in Midtown. Trash flying everywhere. Kinda like a urban tubleweed.

And Houston beat out Dallas, so what does that mean? That Dallas is dirty?

[kjb434]

UH-OH!!! (ALARMS GOING OFF)

Your implying we're better than Dallas? I home some pissed off Dallasite doen't start brawl.

Just kidding !

[MidtownCoog]

Remember Rick Perry's surprise that Houston beat out Dallas?

He made some snide remark.

Vote for Pedro, becuase Rick Perry is guility of hair-spray abuse.

[lowspark]

^^^

Atlanta besides a Coke Museum, a tour of CNN, Stone Moutain (its a carving people, that's it), and the cyclorama (kind of neat) has not much else except for some hills.

Houston is pretty much on par with Atlanta. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm.. that made me think..... Maybe part of the reason Houston lost was BECAUSE of the Olympics experience in Atlanta. I don't know if you remember but Atlanta didn't get rave reviews of how they handled the Olympics. And Houston and Atlanta are perceived to be very similar -- and they are in lots of ways.

You know, I (with my family) went to those Olympics and I thought they were wonderful. We had a wonderful time and found Atlanta to be a very nice city and we had no trouble at all getting around!

BUT, we're from Houston so.... the heat/humidity didn't bother us that much (it's what we're used to). Transportation was easy -- we drove so had our own car. Two things that were definitely not the case for all the visitors Atlanta attracted for that event, and the same would go for Houston.

[texas911]

Billboards and gigantic signs are two big reasons why our freeways can be so depressingly ugly.

You have got to be kidding! I've said it before, its lack of zoning that has done in Houston's beauty, not billboards. Myopic.

[RedScare]

You have got to be kidding! I've said it before, its lack of zoning that has done in Houston's beauty, not billboards. Myopic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And we've ignored you before. We'll ignore you again. Prove zoning is a problem and we might stop ignoring you.

[texas911]

Prove it? Even if I do REDSCARE, you'll just ignore it so you don't have to admit you're wrong. Like on the thread about increased speed on the interstates. I proved you wrong, but of course you never replied to that thread again.

Think of all the great cities of the world, they have zoning. Do you think that that's just a coincidence? Anyway, bill boards are the least of Houston's problems! Why it keeps coming up on this board is a puzzle.

[MidtownCoog]

Think of all the great cities of the world, they have zoning.

Name one that is not 100s of years older than Houston.

And what exactly is zoning? No business near a house? No business near a schools? No houses near highways?

"Great Cities" have all of that, and more.

"Zoning" is an American creation.

[editor]

Tokyo has no zoning.

People there generally think their city is ugly.

[sevfiv]

our lack of zoning is made up for with many land use ordinances.

and from an a posteriori viewpoint, billboards definitely cause alot of "uglification."

[SpringTX]

The feeder roads in Houston really took me by surprise when I moved here several years ago. I didn't even know what they were called until someone told me the term for them. One thing I love about them is that they're alternates routes when the highways are choked with traffic. I can't tell you how many times I've ridden a feeder road for miles and miles (at a nice 50 mph) to bypass construction, traffic jams, accidents, etc. Or if I'm just going a short distance along a freeway, I'll stay on the feeder road. And I agree that those U-turn lanes are awesome. You can basically U-turn easily at any exit. And the convenience of the amenities along the feeder roads are great, too, as folks have mentioned. Are feeder roads ugly? Only if the retail along them is run-down. A lot of I-45 has some nice retail along it. Also, in other cities, freeways are NOT always lined with beautiful trees. Often freeways are lined with the sides and backs of various lots which may not be so pretty. So you may see the back of an apartment complex. Or the side of a school or a factory. I give Houston's feeder roads a thumbs up.

[texasboy]

Midtown Coog, it is time to get out of Houston and actually take in the culture of these other cities that will make you come home thinking that the city you live in is below mediocrity. I am not saying you should have this in the back of your mind 24/7, but lets be real for a moment. For you to even question why London got the olympics and not Houston because it has ugly parts says enough already. I think your view on Houston is so illiberally bias and is based off of nothing but too much pride to admit that we are not on a level of so many cities that should get the olympics. If you think are problem is too much trash, I think the IOC would make you have a rude awakeing.