MidtownCoog Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 I travel internationaly quite a bit, but you failed to answer my question. What is zoning? And give me an example of how it works in these "great cities of the world". This year I have been in Amsterdam, Prague, London - and each of those cities has mixed retail, housing, schools, etc. all mixed-matched together.So again, what is zoning?I don't think Houston even needed to the Olympics. Read my post again. And I was not questioning why London got the Olypics. It's basically my second home town, and I am still trying to think of examples of "zoning" over there. And if Houston depresses you so much, why don't you move? I fail to see why someone would chose to live in a place that makes them so frustrated. Houston's ugly has more to do with lazy people than zoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasboy Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 I travel internationaly quite a bit, but you failed to answer my question. What is zoning? And give me an example of how it works in these "great cities of the world". This year I have been in Amsterdam, Prague, London - and each of those cities has mixed retail, housing, schools, etc. all mixed-matched together.So again, what is zoning?I don't think Houston even needed to the Olympics. Read my post again. And I was not questioning why London got the Olypics. It's basically my second home town, and I am still trying to think of examples of "zoning" over there. And if Houston depresses you so much, why don't you move? I fail to see why someone would chose to live in a place that makes them so frustrated. Houston's ugly has more to do with lazy people than zoning.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Zoning has to do with having some kind of consistency throughout a neighborhood. Midtown is the perfect example of what no zoning can do to Houston. You can have a urban project on a couple of blocks, but next door you have strip centers and suburban styled apartment complexes. Hmm, do you see this in cities that are just as new as Houston such as Portland, Seattle, Miami, San Diego, or Denver? Nope. For example, the Pearl Distrit in Portland is what midtown could have become if there was some sort of uniformity in the neighborhoods to create an urban village, which midtown is very far from being.By the way, I don't live in Houston but it has grown on me as somewhat of a hometown because I have spent 15 years living there. I was born in LA and now live in Miami and still I am more interested in what is going on in the city because I now it has a lot of potential and I just don't want to give up on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 i am going to have to side with midtown on the zoning...and again, we have numerous land ordinances that help somewhat "zone" things.AND i don't like the idea of houston being a "pleasantville" (see bellaire). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas911 Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 And if Houston depresses you so much, why don't you move? I fail to see why someone would chose to live in a place that makes them so frustrated.The subject was that the elimination of billboards would somehow magically make the freeway system look beautiful. That was the original premise. I said that billboards were the least of Houston's worries and I don't understand why billboards are singled out like some sort of holy grail for Houston beautification. Look at the bigger picture people! And as a Texan, don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me to move or stay. I'm a proud Houstonian, and excuse me for wanting the best for our city. So take your defeatist mentality and keep it to yourself, as a Texan, I'm not going to hide from (move away) just because something isn't right, I'll fight till it gets right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 The first time I saw a feeder road was when I lived in Wisconsin. I later learned that Minnesota has them, too. But probably due to zoning restrictions, they aren't the carnivals that the ones in Texas sometimes are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Timmy Chan's Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Think of all the great cities of the world, they have zoning. Do you think that that's just a coincidence? <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Here's a fact for you...Houston is the largest city in the US without zoning. Pasadena, Texas is the second largest city in the US without zoning. Therefore, every city in the US with population between 142,000 and 2,000,000 has zoning. It may be that all the great cities have zoning, but so do all the ugly ones.I think the feeder road theory has more merit. In fact, I know that within the last few years, TxDOT was making some changes to their policies for driveway access to state roads (including feeder roads). TxDOT was trying to great reduce the number of driveways coming off of feeder roads, much to the chagrin of developers and land owners. I didn't follow what happened to that issue...does anyone else know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 To save money on ROW acquisition and construction costs, TxDOT proposed no feeder roads on any new construction (renovation or expansion of existing highways would apparently still get feeders). This was met with the usual pavlovian howling by developers and assorted other 'business uber alles' types. TxDOT was slapped down by the fuhrer of 'business uber alles', Rick Perry, and TxDOT moved on to toll roads for everyone.texas911, in the interest of trying to understand your point about zoning, if zoning existed in Houston, would retail centers be disallowed along feeders roads? Remember, this thread is only about the unattractiveness of strip centers, big boxes, auto dealerships and other commercial establishments on the feeders, making the view from the highway less than ideal. Will zoning get rid of these eyesores? I know zoning can't tear down a building, but would you zone feeders residential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Timmy Chan's Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 texas911, in the interest of trying to understand your point about zoning, if zoning existed in Houston, would retail centers be disallowed along feeders roads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 [/sarcastic a-hole] <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good thing you told us. We thought you were serious for awhile, there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas911 Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 Ahhh zoning. For you guys who don't know the full depth of zoning, its not just land use that zoning encompasses. Its much more complicated than that. Mix use can and is used in zoned cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted August 21, 2005 Share Posted August 21, 2005 I am still curious how zoning will cure the blighted feeder roads that make Houston visitors' eyes bleed. I have lived in numerous cities that employ zoning, but haven't made the connection how zoning will cure this problem. Could you enlighten me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 All zoning does is keep the beer store further away form my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest danax Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 The first time I saw a feeder road was when I lived in Wisconsin. I later learned that Minnesota has them, too. But probably due to zoning restrictions, they aren't the carnivals that the ones in Texas sometimes are.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>The feeders have positive practical value and negative aesthetic value, Therefore. we need to keep them but there needs to be a thick, high green buffer planted between the freeway and feeders, maybe with some interesting art , with a signage height limitation for the businesses along them so they are as hidden as possible. I personally like giant clumping bamboo. Could you imagine walls of 80 foot high giant timber bamboo growing along the feeders? This city would be looked at as innovative, hip, smart and a little crazy and, eliminate once and for all the flea market scenery.OK, the homeless might decide bamboo forests make good camping grounds and rats might like it too. But wouldn't it look wild ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Timmy Chan's Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 ...there needs to be a thick, high green buffer planted between the freeway and feeders, maybe with some interesting art... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As an alternative to bamboo, how 'bout something like the Green Monster at Fenway Park? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Mattress Mack is gonna beotch-slap y'all!That's an obstruction of justice and free enterprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjb434 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Exactly. Business would claim you are hindering their business. And they have plenty of legal ground to stop a proposal that would block their storefronts and signs.You can claim places like the Woodlands have sign restrictions and hide storefronts with trees, but these places went in knowing these restriction were in place.We can't go in expos facto and block their advertisements.I would be more in the liking of what was built in Bellaire along the West Loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 And for those worried about ugly freeway, just think how much better they could look without billboards.That is 90% of the problem.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>This is interesting as I've noticed that alot of the billboards on the Katy Freeway have been knocked down for the new road construction.I wonder if they will replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I also hate to say the word "doomed" in refering that the feeders roads are a "blight". To some yes, to many other its a great convenience.I love our feeder road system and the rows of businesses and strips centers. And I'm not being sarcastic.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>I agree completely. One of the first things I noticed about Houston was the feeder road system, and I loved it and still love it. It makes my life so much easier in almost every respect while in my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest danax Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Mattress Mack is gonna beotch-slap y'all!That's an obstruction of justice and free enterprise!<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yeah, I know but does that mean we're forever screwed? What about the tunnel idea? That would affect the feeder throng as well. Would they file a class-action if that happened? We can't be forever held by the cojones because of a bunch of bean bag peddlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Exactly. Business would claim you are hindering their business. And they have plenty of legal ground to stop a proposal that would block their storefronts and signs.You can claim places like the Woodlands have sign restrictions and hide storefronts with trees, but these places went in knowing these restriction were in place.We can't go in expos facto and block their advertisements.I would be more in the liking of what was built in Bellaire along the West Loop.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>There is no legal requirement to let people see your big ugly sign. TxDOT is free to build tunnels, depressed roads or sound barriers. Mattress Mac can complain, but he can't sue (well, at least he won't win). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 So we wanna get rid of ugly, so somebody suggests putting up a giant green wall?Das funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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