IronTiger Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) The residents would love an underpass, and it's not like there's any former Hazmat-level factory seeping contaminants into the ground near it. Well, for starters, (and I could go into a longer rant on why the original Afton Oaks corridor doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I won't), but the big problem with putting an underpass there is that parallel to the railroad track, they've also got a large drainage ditch that would pose some additional engineering than just a traditional underpass would. This sort of thing also screws up why Bellaire, Westheimer, and other East/West roads can't get underpasses. Edited May 25, 2015 by IronTiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFootsSocks Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Well, for starters, (and I could go into a longer rant on why the original Afton Oaks corridor doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I won't), but the big problem with putting an underpass there is that parallel to the railroad track, they've also got a large drainage ditch that would pose some additional engineering than just a traditional underpass would. This sort of thing also screws up why Bellaire, Westheimer, and other East/West roads can't get underpasses.I assumed the light rail would run perpendicular to the railroad tracks. Maybe I misunderstood which crossing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I assumed the light rail would run perpendicular to the railroad tracks. Maybe I misunderstood which crossing?No, it does, but if you take a look at Google Maps, the railroad that you mention runs parallel to a drainage ditch, and that ditch extends along to Bellaire and Westheimer. The ditch makes an underpass for Richmond unfeasible, and while an overpass would work, remember that Afton Oaks blocked a 610 widening back in the 1990s, specifically calling out elevated structures. There's a quote from said article mentioned in another post to back that up, and it also provides some insight on how Afton Oaks and Midtown have a thing or two in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 No, it does, but if you take a look at Google Maps, the railroad that you mention runs parallel to a drainage ditch, and that ditch extends along to Bellaire and Westheimer. The ditch makes an underpass for Richmond unfeasible, and while an overpass would work, remember that Afton Oaks blocked a 610 widening back in the 1990s, specifically calling out elevated structures. There's a quote from said article mentioned in another post to back that up, and it also provides some insight on how Afton Oaks and Midtown have a thing or two in common.Comparing the pierce elevated to a rail overpass shows how out of touch you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Comparing the pierce elevated to a rail overpass shows how out of touch you are.Out of touch? I'm describing a rich, inner-loop neighborhood in Houston that hates elevated structures and will selfishly screw over entire transportation networks because they're NIMBYs with money and can sway politicians to do what they want. I just described two completely different neighborhoods. Neat, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Comparing the pierce elevated to a rail overpass shows how out of touch you are. The Pierce elevated and an elevated rail line are very different, but they don't have to be the same to have the same effect on those that live near it. Edited June 1, 2015 by samagon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Out of touch? I'm describing a rich, inner-loop neighborhood in Houston that hates elevated structures and will selfishly screw over entire transportation networks because they're NIMBYs with money and can sway politicians to do what they want.I just described two completely different neighborhoods. Neat, huh?There's a huge difference between a narrow rail elevated structure and a 6 lane freeway. That's my point. Also downtown interests are the reason the pierce elevated is being torn down not midtown residents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) There's a huge difference between a narrow rail elevated structure and a 6 lane freeway. That's my point. Also downtown interests are the reason the pierce elevated is being torn down not midtown residents.That's not specifically what I was comparing, read the above posts again. The fact that I'm comparing the Midtown/Downtown area to Afton Oaks is probably a sore spot, because it's not exactly a favorable comparison. Â Edited June 1, 2015 by IronTiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 That's not specifically what I was comparing, read the above posts again. The fact that I'm comparing the Midtown/Downtown area to Afton Oaks is probably a sore spot, because it's not exactly a favorable comparison. The fact that you compare them at all is laughable. Afton oaks single handedly stopped a major transportation project from occurring. What did midtown do? Yes the pierce elevated is a barrier but midtown residents aren't the reason it's coming down, downtown power brokers are. It benefits midtown but ordinary residents had zero impact on this decision. But keep trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (note to self... try to locate "block" option for certain trolls posters...) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryDierker Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (note to self... try to locate "block" option for certain trolls posters...)  top, righthand corner, dropdown menu by your username, then select Manage Ignore Prefs. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) The fact that you compare them at all is laughable. Afton oaks single handedly stopped a major transportation project from occurring. What did midtown do? Yes the pierce elevated is a barrier but midtown residents aren't the reason it's coming down, downtown power brokers are. It benefits midtown but ordinary residents had zero impact on this decision. But keep trying. either way a rich and small subset of people are making life more difficult for other, mainly poor people in their own self interests. not building light rail through AO makes it harder for everyone to move around Houston, but keeps those folks living in AO happy because there is no rail on richmond. realigning i45 will remove apartments, homeless shelters, neighborhoods, bars, restaurants, and reduce local connectivity east/west along the current 59/288 corridor all the way from Southmore to Lyons, all for the benefit of a few power brokers in downtown. you know, you're right, it is laughable that they are compared at all, of the two, this realignment of i45 is far more egregious, comparing LR to it would be to trivialize the negative impact of the i45 realignment. Edited June 2, 2015 by samagon 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrchr1 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 either way a rich and small subset of people are making life more difficult for other, mainly poor people in their own self interests. not building light rail through AO makes it harder for everyone to move around Houston, but keeps those folks living in AO happy because there is no rail on richmond. realigning i45 will remove apartments, homeless shelters, neighborhoods, bars, restaurants, and reduce local connectivity east/west along the current 59/288 corridor all the way from Southmore to Lyons, all for the benefit of a few power brokers in downtown. you know, you're right, it is laughable that they are compared at all, of the two, this realignment of i45 is far more egregious, comparing LR to it would be to trivialize the negative impact of the i45 realignment. Your last statement is dead on, but at all what was being discussed. IronTiger was trying to make the same point you were, but he was placing the motivation of the I45 "re-imagining" on the midtown residents, as every article written about this boondoggle has since the plans were released. This is the public justification, but the real driver behind this move are big money players in the downtown construction scene. It has nothing to do with the residents of midtown's wishes, though for some removing the "barrier" between mid and downtown would be a nice touch, because they have NO pull at the TEXDOT level! Hell, as a midtown resident myself, I can't stand the new plan as it destroys access to Allen Pkwy and Memorial Dr for commuters (especially from the south and east) and limits freeway access to midtown! The quote you pulled wasn't calling the merits of the I45 change, rather it was rebutting an argument that AO has been justified being the ultimate NIMBY's (blocking a rail line that would cause limited interruption to their daily lives but vastly improve the entire city's transit mobility, not to mention provide LONG needed repairs to Richmond) because neighborhoods like midtown are doing the same thing. The truth is, midtown isn't doing a damn thing, though some residents find benefit in the proposed changes. In fact, it couldn't be a much worse example considering that midtown was a part of the original rail line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Your last statement is dead on, but at all what was being discussed. IronTiger was trying to make the same point you were, but he was placing the motivation of the I45 "re-imagining" on the midtown residents, as every article written about this boondoggle has since the plans were released. This is the public justification, but the real driver behind this move are big money players in the downtown construction scene. It has nothing to do with the residents of midtown's wishes, though for some removing the "barrier" between mid and downtown would be a nice touch, because they have NO pull at the TEXDOT level! Hell, as a midtown resident myself, I can't stand the new plan as it destroys access to Allen Pkwy and Memorial Dr for commuters (especially from the south and east) and limits freeway access to midtown! The quote you pulled wasn't calling the merits of the I45 change, rather it was rebutting an argument that AO has been justified being the ultimate NIMBY's (blocking a rail line that would cause limited interruption to their daily lives but vastly improve the entire city's transit mobility, not to mention provide LONG needed repairs to Richmond) because neighborhoods like midtown are doing the same thing. The truth is, midtown isn't doing a damn thing, though some residents find benefit in the proposed changes. In fact, it couldn't be a much worse example considering that midtown was a part of the original rail line!  Thanks for the response, I should have qualified who I was calling being the 'rich' in the i45 realignment. those people being the developers and land owners downtown who stand to gain the most by developing land they own that would become more valuable without the pierce there. basically, anyone who lives around the 59/288 corridor is going to suffer from this. Whether they live in an old $30,000 shotgun, or a new $300,000 townhome, their income and monetary worth relative to the land owners and developers in downtown is the same, we're all poor, and our mobility is going to be reduced for their monetary benefit. We've all got our individual needs that are going to be impacted, as someone said in another thread when I brought up the people who come from the south heading for Allen Parkway exits, the number of people affected by this loss of access is so small as to be inconsequential. I'm sure that the number of people in your situation, trying to access AP from midtown, is just as small. If you take each of those mobility issues as their own scenario it does seem like choking on a gnat while trying to eat a steak. Look at these mobility issues all together, you have a very large and very diverse group of people who are negatively impacted, all of the sudden you see that the gnat you thought you were choking on wasn't a gnat, but you are actually choking on the steak. As crappy as it is, I go to that randalls for my grocery needs, I have a storage unit in midtown that I visit on a weekly basis, I go into downtown daily (for work or pleasure), I go to locations near buffalo bayou inside the loop, access for me to all of this stuff is going to be decimated. All because some fat cats who have the ears of txdot are wanting to become fatter cats. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curbur Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 hmm.. lawsuit seeks to halt post oak bus project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdotwill84 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 interesting. How long do we have to wait for the re-vote? I wonder if this lawsuit is a nonfactor or whether is can halt progress. I thought the "bus-line" construction was being done a certain way where rail can go on top even after the completion.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I wonder which homeowners association? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Metro gets voters to approve train  "We don't want a train! Buses are more efficient use of money!"  Metro changes plans to a bus line  "You can't do a bus line! You promised a train!"   7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakota79 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Metro gets voters to approve train "We don't want a train! Buses are more efficient use of money!" Metro changes plans to a bus line "You can't do a bus line! You promised a train!" Knuckleheads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 interesting. How long do we have to wait for the re-vote? I wonder if this lawsuit is a nonfactor or whether is can halt progress. I thought the "bus-line" construction was being done a certain way where rail can go on top even after the completion. At the moment they can't do that. Its interesting that they are going ahead with construction after this agreement. Since they can't take the rider banning federal funding off the Budget until next year I imagine that they will just build as is and then secure funding to transform it into a rail line at a later date. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdotwill84 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/transportation/article/Lawsuit-challenging-Uptown-bus-lanes-dismissed-6605947.php 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 When is the proposal going to go on the ballot? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Is this even something going on the ballot? Construction is scheduled beginning of the year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79ta Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'm curious to see how the routes will be designed, the frequency of buses, and the time estimates between the two endpoints. from the article. Utility work along Post Oak began earlier this year and technical design of the bus lanes is expected within 60 days, Breeding said.Breeding said officials hope to choose a contractor to build the lanes and stations in late February or March. That would mean the dedicated lanes would be completed in 2018.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdotwill84 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Is this even something going on the ballot? Construction is scheduled beginning of the year  I vaguely remember Culberson saying if the Houston citizens voted for rail on the next ballot, he would not block it in his district. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Man Culberson is a total waste of life. Sorry to be so cruel but the guy is a total *&^%$#^&* for a lack of better words. How do you prevent a transportation agency from operating in the 4th major city in America because a small stretch of where your district lies doesn't want light rail running through their neighborhood? Why not just work with the agency to plan a better route? But to go to the lengths he has to prevent progress in this city is beyond words for me. I wish I could meet this guy and give him my two cents. Edited November 4, 2015 by j_cuevas713 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADCS Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Man Culberson is a total waste of life. Sorry to be so cruel but the guy is a total *&^%$#^&* for a lack of better words. How do you prevent a transportation agency from operating in the 4th major city in America because a small stretch of where your district lies doesn't want light rail running through their neighborhood? Why not just work with the agency to plan a better route? But to go to the lengths he has to prevent progress in this city is beyond words for me. I wish I could be this guy and give him my two cents. Culberson is symptomatic of a pervasive attitude in Houston - that the government exists solely to serve one's own interests, and anything it does that either does not serve those interests, or run counter to them, must be opposed with all available resources. There's no sense of common good or sacrifice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Culberson is symptomatic of a pervasive attitude in Houston - that the government exists solely to serve one's own interests, and anything it does that either does not serve those interests, or run counter to them, must be opposed with all available resources. There's no sense of common good or sacrifice.You know, I completely agree. That seems to be the attitude of the majority of Houstonians. The good thing is I see that slowly changing but still distant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I've said it in other threads, but give it another 10 years, maybe it won't even take that long. For the past few years, and even currently, we're seeing a surge of density being build around the red line, others think this growth is circumstantial. I don't agree, but whatever.  When this same density starts growing around the green/purple line, then developers will come around to see that there is significant money to be made around the rail lines. As land values go up around the rail lines, so taxes will go up too, this is when politicians will come around pretty substantially. Especially considering no one wants tax rates to go up, the only way to increase the amount of money collected via tax is to make land value higher. So once this happens, then we'll start seeing more activity, and at a more aggressive rate, and for more than just light rail. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I've said it in other threads, but give it another 10 years, maybe it won't even take that long. For the past few years, and even currently, we're seeing a surge of density being build around the red line, others think this growth is circumstantial. I don't agree, but whatever.  When this same density starts growing around the green/purple line, then developers will come around to see that there is significant money to be made around the rail lines. As land values go up around the rail lines, so taxes will go up too, this is when politicians will come around pretty substantially. Especially considering no one wants tax rates to go up, the only way to increase the amount of money collected via tax is to make land value higher. So once this happens, then we'll start seeing more activity, and at a more aggressive rate, and for more than just light rail.EXACTLY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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