Austin City Hall

[dbigtex56]

re: Houston City Hall.

I still maintain that Mrs. Lanier did us no favor with her rennovation of City Hall Plaza, especially the reflecting pool. Why the turquoise liner? It's not a kiddie pool!

Black is the preferred color, as it creates a more reflective surface. Local examples would be the reflecting pools at Hermann Park and Rothko Chapel.

[pineda]

Not to impune the fine Mrs. Bob Lanier, but have you ever seen the interior of her townhouse where she and Bob moved to several years ago? Her style and taste seemed to be woefully lacking in all elements and aspects of good design. I will never understand why "first ladies" are allowed to redecorate on a whim any public building they choose. The only opinion they should be allowed to enter in any discussion of this type should be what design firm to hire and rely on their recommendations, rather than considering city coffers their carte-blanche piggy bank. The only one who was ever any good at it was Jackie Kennedy, and you, Mrs. Elyse Lanier are no Jackie Kennedy.

[bachanon]

the opening post on this thread calls the "picture of a model" of the austin city hall a rendering. a rendering is a drawing or more specifically a cad drawing. correct me if i'm wrong.

the austin city hall appears to be an attempt at "organic" architecture but the model looks like a 1960s or 1970s era precast concrete behemoth. blech! is this already built?

i might feel differently if i experienced it in person. architecture takes on a completely new dimension in human scale.

[Montrose1100]

Hi, I'm new.  Actually, I've been observing for about three years now.  I come here to find out what is happening in Houston.  In doing that, I end up reading the entire thread that I have choosen.  Mostly, I laugh...but other times...well.  I now have say something.  I'm know y'all will get used to me very quickly.

Wood paneling?  Where do you see that? 

Micheal Moore?  Politics has nothing to do with this building's design, a city hall or not.

I've watch this building go from a 40' deep hole in the earth to being almost finished today.  It is a beautiful building.  It was designed by a New Mexico architect, yet it is very "Austin".  It's also has heavy hill country-style influence.  My only problem with it is that it is not bigger.  It fits perfectly with its surrounding building, because it bring elements (limestone and height) that those buildings have.  Then it contrasts with the copper and anti-box shape to set itself apart.  "I belong here, but I'm different."  The view of it as you drive north over the 1st Street bridge is wonderful.  You haven't even seen the back of the building.  There is a balcony that extends over 2nd Street.  The building is sculpture.  It's not a box.  There is a sunken plaza in front with a stage.  The stairs up the front of the building doulbe as a small ampitheater.  Very appropirate for Austin.  This is what I believe someone  mistook for a waterfall in an earlier post.  The only wood will be slates above the seating to ward off the sun.  Don't judge the building by a model.  You should come see the actual building before you deem it "stupid" or "70's-ish".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obvisouly you need to read a bit more...

This is the worst project I have ever seen. Other then the Dallas Perfoming Arts center, this is the ugliest thing I have ever seen. Nothing about it is "Austin". Its cheap looking, and looks slapped together. I have not seen the building in person, but I have seen pictures, so I am not judging it on the model. Its an ugly building, thats my opion, its just a horrible, ugly building. Austin could have done alot better, it looks like a cheesy condo in 1964 in the hills of Los Angeles. Bad move on Austin's Part.

[kirbyaustex]

I love great art and great architecture, so I'm not going to argue for the building. It can do that for itself...in time, I know it will be vindicated. That being said. This building is exactly "Austin". It stands out, it doesn't conform, it's talked about, it's looked (or gawked) at. A more traditional building would have been a bit more stately, but would have had one post in a thread and nothing more. In the end, boring. I've looked at many buildings. Most for a moment or two, and then moved on. Never to really think of it again, because it couldn't hold my attention. But this one, this one gives me pause. This one holds my attention. This one I look at from all angles. This one I remember. This building is a conversion piece. Remember that not all architecture/art is well received at first. One only has to look at the Eiffel Tower to realize that. I appreciate this building today. In the future, so will everyone else.

[kirbyaustex]

And on reading, I'm very well read. But in the end I think for myself. I don't get marching orders from on high, and blindly follow.

[dbigtex56]

Welcome to to forum, kirbyaustex.

Thanks for sharing your point of view about Austin's new City Hall. Your comments about its suitability to that particular city make sense to me. From that perspective, it took courage to deviate from what is currently fashionable in some architectural circles.

I also agree that one cannot judge a building based on a rather blurry photograph of an architectural model. The materials used and the context in which it's set cannot be fully understood unless the building is viewed in 'real life'.

Do I like this building? Don't know; haven't seen it yet.

[DaTrain]

I don't even like Austin's New city hall. Austin could have done better than that old old school look. It looks like what the average civic centers out in the suburbs would be when built in the 1970s. Why do they have to move out of the Old City Hall for this crappy style? What is thought of as unique to some is really nothing at all. Even has a water fountain little kids wouldn't even be allowed to play in. Not like the Water Garden in Fort Worth etiher.

[dbigtex56]

Even has a water fountain little kids wouldn't even be allowed to play in.  Not like the Water Garden in Fort Worth etiher.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Didn't some little kid get sucked into the Ft Worth Water Garden and drown a few months ago?

[westguy]

Oh damn, I thought that was a swimming pool in front of Houston City Hall.

[dbigtex56]

Oh damn, I thought that was a swimming pool in front of Houston City Hall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hehe!

Apparently, so did Elyse Lanier - that Cee-Ment Pond turquoise lining was installed under her guidance.

Maybe they should run with the theme, and hire some Esther Williams look-alikes to perform synchronized swimming routines. Mmmm....Classy!

[GovernorAggie]

I saw Austin's city Hall this weekend and thought it was the absolute weirdest looking thing I've ever seen. I guess it fits with "Keep Austin Weird" mantra. It's architecture matched the CSC building on both sides. And that beak-like point over 2nd street is also very weird. I wonder how long it will be before that thing is maligned by some too-tall truck.

[ssullivan]

hehe!

Apparently, so did Elyse Lanier - that Cee-Ment Pond turquoise lining was installed under her guidance.

Maybe they should run with the theme, and hire some Esther Williams look-alikes to perform synchronized swimming routines. Mmmm....Classy! 

Haha!

Seriously, the turquoise has got to go. Last week the reflection pond was drained on several occassions when I was downtown at the library. I was somewhat tempted to grab some friends and a lot of black paint and take care of it myself late at night before the water is put back in. Anyone want to help?

[SpaceCity]

I'm not a big fan of Houston's city hall either. Waco has one that is the same style, and looks like a miniature Houston city hall @ four stories.

I do like Dallas' old city hall

The new Dallas city hall, although done by IM Pei, looks a little too much like an alien space ship for me.

[dbigtex56]

The new Dallas city hall, although done by IM Pei, looks a little too much like an alien space ship for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Commence anal probe.

[SpaceCity]

Anal probe? There must be a lot of aliens on Montrose.

[largeTEXAS]

Images from the website, http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/cityhall/

[Subdude]

Thanks for posting the pictures. To me it looks even worse in the detailed renderings, although of course you can't really go by drawings. It's like they are trying to capture the spirit of bureaucracy by modeling it on some generic community college. The interior just seems sterile and forbidding, but that may be intentional for a city hall.

[firstngoal]

While this project doesn't seem very well received on this website, I thought the concept - and the public input process - was interesting.... and again, very Austin. I give them a lot of credit for that. See below....

The project will be dominated by landscape and incorporate limestone, bronze, glass, water and shade. Terraces spill out of the building into the plaza in a way that is analogous to geologic forces in the Hill Country that surround Austin and produce the limestone overhangs known as balcones. These terraces will be shaded and habitable, prime locations for viewing the activities on the plaza below and Town Lake beyond.

The main plaza winds its way around the limestone peninsulas of the terraced building. Water originates in the lobby of the building and runs through a group of monumental limestone boulders in the plaza to symbolically return to Town Lake. The Plaza will have multiple seating and gathering areas of different scales to support picnics, outdoor films, and musical performances. The seating is protected from the sun by a shade structure that will generate energy through the use of photovoltaics. Amphitheater seating comes down from the main public plaza terrace and can be used informally or to view performances in the plaza.

On May 17, 2001, City Council unanimously endorsed the new schematic design presented by the design team on May 3.

When Council approved the concept design in February, they requested that the Design Team consider the community's comments as the project moved into the schematic design phase. The Council also requested that design materials be displayed in a "storefront" as a convenient way for the community to view the design and leave comments for the design team.

On March 7, the New City Hall Design Review Center opened at 101 W. 5th Street. Since its opening until May 16 when it was closed, over 300 visitors viewed the design, leaving 43 comment cards for the design team to review. During this same time new City Hall web page was viewed over 14,500 times, and between January and May, a total of 280 comments were received, reviewed and responded to by the design team.

Incorporating comments from the Council, the Design and Downtown Commissions and the community resulted in the following changes to the earlier concept design:

National standards for sustainability will be achieved: A Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) Silver Rating from the U.S. Green Building Council is proposed.

Utilization of upgraded, more durable exterior and interior materials.

Installation of more durable building and weatherproofing systems.

A more informal, geometric design.

Addition of a four-story atrium to provide a large public gathering space in the lobby.

Addition of more windows, especially in the Council Chambers to allow more natural light, outdoor views and viewing into the Chambers from the plaza.

Redesigned the flat roof to be a multi-faceted, bronze finish roof.

Addition of more shade through more trees, planting mature trees, covered porches, and shading devices on the building.

More seating will be available in the plaza.

Landscaping buffers will be used in the plaza to mitigate noise from surrounding streets.

Special treatments will be used at intersection crossings to calm traffic.

[UrbanLandscape]

This really looks worse and worse. I mean, maybe it's just in the case of Dallasites, but the city hall there tends to grow on you. At least it looks like a somewhat responsiblie structure. Austin is going to regret this travesty of a building within twenty years.

[WestGrayGuy]

Austin's city hall is much much worse in person. To see it in full disgusting glory view it from across Town Lake.

[Montrose1100]

Austin's city hall is much much worse in person.  To see it in full disgusting glory view it from across Town Lake.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It looks like some 60's Mod (super sized) "Log Cabin" moutain home in LA.

[jtmbin]

A friend and I saw the building last weekend and we both loved it. It definitely fits in (that's seems to be a plus in the opinions of most on this forum, though I don't consider "matching" to be plus for anything except socks). It shares an architectural language with the convention center and the interiors of the nearby new Hilton which is to say, it's of its time. It's materials are pure central Texas with the addition of the copper to bring in a little richness and depth. I say, thank goodness they didn't choose something as pathetic as a junior version of the state capitol. We get enough of that rehash of the last two thousand years with practically everything Harris County builds - see the new courthouse towers.

Should I assume that those who hate it also hate the new Clinton Library because it doesn't fit the stereotypical mold of what "stately" looks like?

The Austin City Hall along with the Clinton Presidential Library represent two of the best examples of architecture in the year 2004, as they should. There are enough domed, Greek-columned, wanna-be Parthenons ALL OVER THE COUNTRY IN EVERY CITY AND TOWN to last many more centuries. We don't need another in Austin, Houston, or anywhere else. Bravo Austin for breaking the mold!

[Montrose1100]

A friend and I saw the building last weekend and we both loved it.  It definitely fits in (that's seems to be a plus in the opinions of most on this forum, though I don't consider "matching" to be plus for anything except socks). It shares an architectural language with the convention center and the interiors of the nearby new Hilton which is to say, it's of its time.  It's materials are pure central Texas with the addition of the copper to bring in a little richness and depth.  I say, thank goodness they didn't choose something as pathetic as a junior version of the state capitol. We get enough of that rehash of the last two thousand years with practically everything Harris County builds - see the new courthouse towers. 

Should I assume that those who hate it also hate the new Clinton Library because it doesn't fit the  stereotypical mold of what "stately" looks like? 

The Austin City Hall along with the Clinton Presidential Library represent two of the best examples of architecture in the year 2004, as they should. There are enough domed, Greek-columned, wanna-be Parthenons ALL OVER THE COUNTRY IN EVERY CITY AND TOWN to last many more centuries. We don't need another in Austin, Houston, or anywhere else. Bravo Austin for breaking the mold!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bravo...?

Opionated Modernists... I like it... Your the first, and one in a million.

This "Modern" Architecture is pure regret over the corse of the next century. People will look back at this P.O.S. and wonder "what where they thinking?!" as well as the Dallas center for Perfoming arts. This Modernistic style is overated, and is purely european. The style is not widly used as other styles have been of there time, and there is a reason for it. Its a gamble, like everything else in life, and Austin just asked "Hit me". Well you came up 23, and you'll look back and wonder why they would build this thing.

As for the traditional "Greek" style of collums and such, its "classic". easily reconnizable as a goverment or important structure. Yes "new music" is great and all, but where would it be with out the classic? "Greek" style of collums and domes are mostly built here (i.e. the Capital Building) because it associats Democracy, which started in Greek, right by the Parthenon...

But great for Austin for breaking from the chain, but doing it with this ugly structure, maybe next time...

[Subdude]

The Austin City Hall along with the Clinton Presidential Library represent two of the best examples of architecture in the year 2004, as they should. There are enough domed, Greek-columned, wanna-be Parthenons ALL OVER THE COUNTRY IN EVERY CITY AND TOWN to last many more centuries. We don't need another in Austin, Houston, or anywhere else. Bravo Austin for breaking the mold!

I think the point of many was that this hardly breaks any mold. It just looks like more 1970s derivative architecture. Modern styles, as opposed to neo-classical, can't exactly be considered ground-breaking at this point, as they have been the dominant genre since the 1940s. At this point, a well-done neo-classical building would really be revolutionary!

[tamtagon]

The project will be dominated by landscape and incorporate limestone, bronze, glass, water and shade. Terraces spill out of the building into the plaza in a way that is analogous to geologic forces in the Hill Country that surround Austin and produce the limestone overhangs known as balcones. These terraces will be shaded and habitable, prime locations for viewing the activities on the plaza below and Town Lake beyond.

The main plaza winds its way around the limestone peninsulas of the terraced building. Water originates in the lobby of the building and runs through a group of monumental limestone boulders in the plaza to symbolically return to Town Lake. The Plaza will have multiple seating and gathering areas of different scales to support picnics, outdoor films, and musical performances. The seating is protected from the sun by a shade structure that will generate energy through the use of photovoltaics. Amphitheater seating comes down from the main public plaza terrace and can be used informally or to view performances in the plaza.

When first seeing the picture of a model, I thought, cool - this building reminds me of the banks of a river in the hill country. Being on the banks of the Colorado River (aka Town Lake) this building does the best job ever! of cooperating with the environment.

[jtmbin]

"This Modernistic style is overated, and is purely european."

Sorry, I missed rule that says european is, what?, bad? Rome and Greece are what - South American?

"It just looks like more 1970s derivative architecture. "

What is more derivative than continuing to copy the Greeks and Romans two thousand years later?

"its "classic". easily reconnizable as a goverment or important structure"

This is absolutely true, but only because it's the only thing that most people know. This is supposed to be an architectural forum. I assume to exchange ideas and information regarding the current state and future direction of architeture. I don't believe that we as individuals or as a culture learn and grow if we are reluctant, defensive. and even antagonistic about change.

Rather than discussing whether the Austin City Hall is "pretty" or "ugly", does anyone have an opinion about when, if ever, it will be appropriate for Western-world Euro-centric American society to embrace or recognize symbolism in architecture that is visually understood to be authoritative, important, serious, governmental and/or even "democratic" without the mandatory addition of columns and domes?

Will democracy ever have architectural symbolism that can be expressed without deference to the architects of another time and place?

Will American architecture or an American architect ever be able to create from scratch a collection of architectural symbols that will represent AMERICAN democracy for the next two thousand years? Does it matter?

Are we destined to keep rendering the same symbols forever? If so, what's the point? Why bother with architecture if nothing new will ever matter, ever suceed what's come before and been done before?

[713 To 214]

This really looks worse and worse.

[dbigtex56]

. . and Houston, it's just there.  Nothing about it stands out really.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are we talking about the same building?

I think Joseph Finger's design is lovely, capturing both the optimism of Art Deco and the dignity one expects from a governmental building. Hollywood apparently agrees, having used it (in various guises) in at least a couple of movies.

At the time it was constructed, it too probably was controversial, having deviated from the expected Neo-Classical form - but I think it's stood the test of time quite well.

[713 To 214]

Are we talking about the same building?

I think Joseph Finger's design is lovely, capturing both the optimism of Art Deco and the dignity one expects from a governmental building. Hollywood apparently agrees, having used it (in various guises) in at least a couple of movies.

At the time it was constructed, it too probably was controversial, having deviated from the expected Neo-Classical form - but I think it's stood the test of time quite well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm happy that you use Hollywood as an entity through which this topic can be validated. That means Hollywood's inclusion of Dallas' City Hall in Robocop validates it in some way too huh?