Slick Vik Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Cities with a direct rail connection linking their airports with their downtowns command higher hotel rates than cities without them, translating to an average of more than $300 million in taxable revenue per year, a new study found.The study, “A New Partnership: Rail Transit and Convention Growth” jointly released by the American Public Transportation Association (APTA) and the U.S. Travel Association (USTA), found that cities with direct rail access to airport terminals receive nearly 11 percent more revenue per room than hotels in cities without a rail airport connection. Luxury hotels do even better, generating 12.4 percent more revenue per room.http://www.successfulmeetings.com/Conference-News/Research-White-Papers/Articles/Study--Airport-Rail-Connections-Worth-$300-Million-Per-Year/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 The relationship is tenuous at best. There are other factors that go into the cost of a hotel room including taxes, supply/demand and prevalent type of room. 4 of the 5 non-rail towns are major tourist centers (Las Vegas, New Orleans, Orlando, and Tampa) while at least 4 0f the 5 rail towns are high-cost areas anyway (Chicago, DC, Portland, San Francisco). Tourist destinations have a lot of competition that tends to lower the cost as they are trying to attract a broad range of travelers who, for the most part, are travelling on their own dime. Business travelers don't care as much as the company is footing the tab. BTW...at the very end of the article you quoted above there's this... This page is protected by Copyright laws. Do Not Copy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbates2 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Did you copy that part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I plead the fifth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Airport rail connections (besides between terminals and immediate hotels) is pretty impractical. I imagine it could work if downtown was the real "center" of town with hotels, tourist amenities, etc. (Las Vegas being an example), but Houston is not. If hotels or some other private entity wanted to foot the bill, fine. But it's impractical to make locals foot the bill for it, especially since they'll almost certainly never use this connection (even less so than light rail). However, it might work if there was some substantially huge draw--like a rail from the Orlando airport to the Walt Disney World complex...but again, private investment should work. The airport connection is a popular idea, and it's a bit of a common fallacy in planning, especially by light rail enthusiasts. The reasoning is that Location A is a popular destination, and Location B is a popular destination, therefore, linking A & B would be a smashing success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 When Orlando completes the first phase of it's rail system next year it's going to blow a big hole in this theory. http://www.sunrail.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 But isn't the point of having a light rail system? To be able to bring people in the center before going on another line to their final destinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Airport rail connections (besides between terminals and immediate hotels) is pretty impractical. I imagine it could work if downtown was the real "center" of town with hotels, tourist amenities, etc. (Las Vegas being an example), but Houston is not. If hotels or some other private entity wanted to foot the bill, fine. But it's impractical to make locals foot the bill for it, especially since they'll almost certainly never use this connection (even less so than light rail).Light rail will be more successful once the new lines open, and eventually one would like to think that we will have commuter rail connecting the suburbs to the light rail system in the core. so a rail line to the airport from downtown could be used by many people around the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Light rail will be more successful once the new lines open, and eventually one would like to think that we will have commuter rail connecting the suburbs to the light rail system in the core. so a rail line to the airport from downtown could be used by many people around the city. I think it's somewhat instructive that the MetroRail plans don't include connections to either airport even though Hobby isn't that far from the end of the Purple line and that Metro closed up their dedicated express bus service from IAH to downtown. Doesn't look like a priority for those who are in charge, and maybe for good reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Huge Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Inb4 livincinco disagrees with Slik Vik.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arche_757 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 It could be that they intend to extend the Purple line in the future? But at this time just didn't see the need to add that expense? I would think a connection via lightrail to either airport would be a plus. I remember working Downtown and having to drive to Hobby (which meant I had to drive that day) instead of just taking LR like usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Airport rail connections (besides between terminals and immediate hotels) is pretty impractical. I imagine it could work if downtown was the real "center" of town with hotels, tourist amenities, etc. (Las Vegas being an example), but Houston is not. If hotels or some other private entity wanted to foot the bill, fine. But it's impractical to make locals foot the bill for it, especially since they'll almost certainly never use this connection (even less so than light rail).However, it might work if there was some substantially huge draw--like a rail from the Orlando airport to the Walt Disney World complex...but again, private investment should work.The airport connection is a popular idea, and it's a bit of a common fallacy in planning, especially by light rail enthusiasts. The reasoning is that Location A is a popular destination, and Location B is a popular destination, therefore, linking A & B would be a smashing success. I disagree that a rail line to downtown from the airport is impractical, because that won't be the only line in a much larger more comprehensive system. In a larger system, people from all over town can hop on the train/bus close to them and transfer to the line that goes to the airport. Much cheaper than taking a cab, and much MUCH cheaper than paying for parking at the airport. Plenty of people would use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Airport rail connections (besides between terminals and immediate hotels) is pretty impractical. I imagine it could work if downtown was the real "center" of town with hotels, tourist amenities, etc. (Las Vegas being an example), but Houston is not. If hotels or some other private entity wanted to foot the bill, fine. But it's impractical to make locals foot the bill for it, especially since they'll almost certainly never use this connection (even less so than light rail).However, it might work if there was some substantially huge draw--like a rail from the Orlando airport to the Walt Disney World complex...but again, private investment should work.The airport connection is a popular idea, and it's a bit of a common fallacy in planning, especially by light rail enthusiasts. The reasoning is that Location A is a popular destination, and Location B is a popular destination, therefore, linking A & B would be a smashing success. I disagree that a rail line to downtown from the airport is impractical, because that won't be the only line in a much larger more comprehensive system. In a larger system, people from all over town can hop on the train/bus close to them and transfer to the line that goes to the airport. Much cheaper than taking a cab, and much MUCH cheaper than paying for parking at the airport. Plenty of people would use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 I think it's somewhat instructive that the MetroRail plans don't include connections to either airport even though Hobby isn't that far from the end of the Purple line and that Metro closed up their dedicated express bus service from IAH to downtown. Doesn't look like a priority for those who are in charge, and maybe for good reasons. The original plans had light rails going to IAH and Hobby. Also the reason the express bus didn't have ridership was because SuperShuttle sued METRO for infringing on its rights, and won, so METRO was not allowed to advertise the service at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 Airport rail connections (besides between terminals and immediate hotels) is pretty impractical. I imagine it could work if downtown was the real "center" of town with hotels, tourist amenities, etc. (Las Vegas being an example), but Houston is not. If hotels or some other private entity wanted to foot the bill, fine. But it's impractical to make locals foot the bill for it, especially since they'll almost certainly never use this connection (even less so than light rail).However, it might work if there was some substantially huge draw--like a rail from the Orlando airport to the Walt Disney World complex...but again, private investment should work.The airport connection is a popular idea, and it's a bit of a common fallacy in planning, especially by light rail enthusiasts. The reasoning is that Location A is a popular destination, and Location B is a popular destination, therefore, linking A & B would be a smashing success. So impractical that many cities all around the world have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 When Orlando completes the first phase of it's rail system next year it's going to blow a big hole in this theory. http://www.sunrail.com/ How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 The original plans had light rails going to IAH and Hobby. Also the reason the express bus didn't have ridership was because SuperShuttle sued METRO for infringing on its rights, and won, so METRO was not allowed to advertise the service at all. Funny there's no mention of a lawsuit as the culprit in the news reports (or anywhere else I've been able to find) about the shutdown. You have a source on that? From the Chron...http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Metro-to-eliminate-Airport-Direct-shuttle-service-2080445.php Canceling the airport service was one of a dozen suggested route changes that were discussed at a public hearing Tuesday. Metro officials concluded after the hearing that they should proceed with plans to end the service, a decision that doesn't require board approval, spokesman Jerome Gray said.The service is expected to stop late next month, Gray said. The local Route 102 bus, which also provides service from downtown to Bush Airport, will continue to operate.Metro president and chief executive officer George Greanias said the agency had worked hard to make the service succeed, including lowering the fare in January from $15 to $4.50 for a one-way trip."Our concern for Airport Direct stemmed strictly from the costs of the service versus revenues we could realistically achieve, not its desirability or our personal wish that it succeed," Greanias said in a prepared statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 It could be that they intend to extend the Purple line in the future? But at this time just didn't see the need to add that expense? I would think a connection via lightrail to either airport would be a plus. I remember working Downtown and having to drive to Hobby (which meant I had to drive that day) instead of just taking LR like usual. It could be, and maybe they will someday, but I find it interesting that it's not a priority for those making the decisions. Clearly they thought it was better to not go there at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 How's that? Because the rail goes by the airport and the hotel rates in Orlando won't go up as a result. That will directly contradict the tenuous premise made in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Apologies for the double post earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 It could be, and maybe they will someday, but I find it interesting that it's not a priority for those making the decisions. Clearly they thought it was better to not go there at the moment.It had to do with funding, nothing elseFunny there's no mention of a lawsuit as the culprit in the news reports (or anywhere else I've been able to find) about the shutdown. You have a source on that?From the Chron...http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Metro-to-eliminate-Airport-Direct-shuttle-service-2080445.phpInside sources at METRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Because the rail goes by the airport and the hotel rates in Orlando won't go up as a result. That will directly contradict the tenuous premise made in the article.There's a huge difference between by the airport and actually at the airport. See LAX and Dallad Love Field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog08 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The relationship is tenuous at best. There are other factors that go into the cost of a hotel room including taxes, supply/demand and prevalent type of room. 4 of the 5 non-rail towns are major tourist centers (Las Vegas, New Orleans, Orlando, and Tampa) while at least 4 0f the 5 rail towns are high-cost areas anyway (Chicago, DC, Portland, San Francisco). Tourist destinations have a lot of competition that tends to lower the cost as they are trying to attract a broad range of travelers who, for the most part, are travelling on their own dime. Business travelers don't care as much as the company is footing the tab. BTW...at the very end of the article you quoted above there's this... I think it's somewhat instructive that the MetroRail plans don't include connections to either airport even though Hobby isn't that far from the end of the Purple line and that Metro closed up their dedicated express bus service from IAH to downtown. Doesn't look like a priority for those who are in charge, and maybe for good reasons. It's become a common theme on here that transit is one dimensional with just one mode of public transit (rail in particular). It would work most fine once Uptown completes it's BRT as it has a very high concentration of hotels (most in the city?). Then of course DT is connected to some of the city's best and most accessible tourist areas, along with adding more hotels. Just finish connecting Houston's core together and then connect that with "premium bus service" from the airports. It's all about progressing through steps, Rome wasn't built in a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 There's a huge difference between by the airport and actually at the airport. See LAX and Dallad Love Field You're splitting hairs. Even if the rail went right up the runway and through every terminal, by every baggage claim, past every security point, and came out the back side like a week-old enchilada it would still have no impact on overall hotel rates in Orlando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 You're splitting hairs. Even if the rail went right up the runway and through every terminal, by every baggage claim, past every security point, and came out the back side like a week-old enchilada it would still have no impact on overall hotel rates in Orlando.I'm not splitting hairs there's a huge difference between having it come to the terminal and having to take a bus to get to it. That being said you're speculating on a hypothetical scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 It's become a common theme on here that transit is one dimensional with just one mode of public transit (rail in particular). It would work most fine once Uptown completes it's BRT as it has a very high concentration of hotels (most in the city?). Then of course DT is connected to some of the city's best and most accessible tourist areas, along with adding more hotels. Just finish connecting Houston's core together and then connect that with "premium bus service" from the airports. It's all about progressing through steps, Rome wasn't built in a day.It would also help the residents. For many people the old bus service saved an hour rounds trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.