Ted Poe vs. John Culberson

[bobruss]

You are so correct. We need a solid transportation plan or it will hurt our economy. Remember Katy, The Woodland, Sugarland, Missouri City, Pearland. Pasadena and so on. They do not belong to METRO. So they need to vote for METRO and pay their 1 cent tax like we do. Or form their own transportation authority. That is why we are so behind. And of course the Grand Parkway is moving full ahead. More sprawl.

 

I'm glad you brought up the sprawl and the Grand parkway.

I find it interesting that Mr. Culberson has no problems in destroying wildlife habitats, and natural water retention areas that help keep flooding down, creating more sprawl, which really doesn't help us get a handle on oil consumption, and taking peoples properties to build this next layer of growth yet he is unable to understand the importance of the inner cities need for a mass transit plan that actually does something to abate all of those issues.

I have talked in forums to Mr C. and he just is not a very open minded person nor does he really get it when it comes to urban issues.

He would do Houston a service to either step down or go back to what he did before he stuck his pointed nose into the cities business. He just doesn't get it.

[bobruss]

Those are very righteous and idealistic statements, but they don't reflect the reality of Houston.  Houston isn't segmented quite as cleanly as you would like it to be.  The city of Houston consists of approx 2.2 million people and only 450k of them live inside the loop.  That's excluding the approx 4 million people that live outside of Houston that understandably are not in METROs scope.  

 

METRO is still responsible for providing service to those individuals and responsible transit planning needs to allow for that.  Conversation on this forum is generally focused around the "enlightened" souls that live inside the loop and the lost souls that live in the suburbs while ignoring the segment between the loop and the beltway.  

 

The discussion needs to include how METRO services those areas as well because its not acceptable for METRO to entirely focus their budget on the inner loop. 

 

I'm not saying that either Metro or some of the outlying communities don't need to work on plans to help diversify the transit opportunities for people in all areas of this city, but those outlying areas have been given I-10 reconstruction , the beltway system and now the grand Parkway along with the new plans to rebuild 290 and 288. There still spending millions on I 45 south. Billions and billions of dollars have been spent outside the inner city on transportation. Metro has developed a great HOV and tollway system to help speed up traffic. I'm just saying that if the inner city becomes unworkable because people can't move it will hurt everyone in the long run.

I don't think you can turn most of our streets into ten lane thoroughfares like they did on the I -10 expansion. We just don't have the room to put that many cars on the road inside the loop.

[Naviguessor]

I am pretty sure that the souls (including developers) around the beltway and Grand Parkway will be enlightened when an addtional couple million new souls move in and commute times are no longer 40 minutes.  Try doubling that.  Commuter rail will make sense then. 

[nativehoustonion]

Mr. Culberson has not done anything with transportation issues with his district. We need to get him out of office. I wonder how much money he gets from the concrete builders. Since he does want the LRT in his district we can build the LRT to Kirby. Then Mr. Culberson can build a tollway down Richmond to the Galleria area. Remove all the trees, widen Richmond and median. I'm sure Afton Oak residents would that! I'm only one block from Mr. Poe's district.

[Slick Vik]

Those are very righteous and idealistic statements, but they don't reflect the reality of Houston.  Houston isn't segmented quite as cleanly as you would like it to be.  The city of Houston consists of approx 2.2 million people and only 450k of them live inside the loop.  That's excluding the approx 4 million people that live outside of Houston that understandably are not in METROs scope.  

 

METRO is still responsible for providing service to those individuals and responsible transit planning needs to allow for that.  Conversation on this forum is generally focused around the "enlightened" souls that live inside the loop and the lost souls that live in the suburbs while ignoring the segment between the loop and the beltway.  

 

The discussion needs to include how METRO services those areas as well because its not acceptable for METRO to entirely focus their budget on the inner loop. 

 

You are either unaware or ignoring the original 2003 referendum which would have gone down I90 southwest past beltway 8, north to IAH, south to Hobby Airport, and northwest up 290. But here is a reminder. Many of those lines would have gone outside the loop.

 

[bobruss]

I get really tired of people who live outside the loop and get their feelings hurt or suggest that people who live inside the loop are insensitive to their concerns. That is not my objective and as I stated earlier I think the outlying areas have received their share of the transportation money. We should have a more intelligent dialogue and not get down to name calling. We're all in this together as a city.

Everyone has a choice to live where they want and I'm certainly not trying to make judgements, but when you say that Metro needs to do more your really barking up the wrong tree. Some of the areas that it would certainly help to have mass transit for commutes don't even participate in funding Metro. Some aren't in its jurisdiction and would be better served by the county.

I also never suggested that in its current situation is Houston anything like the more densely packed eastern cities where these type systems were built early on and the cities have grown around.

But I'm not talking about Houston today. I'm talking about creating a climate and infrastructure that will allow for that kind of growth, in the future.

And that future might be fifty or one hundred years from now.

That seems to be the problem I see with most of the arguments that people make on this site.

You would think that the educated followers of this subject would be more in tuned to thinking outside the box and way into the future.

Unfortunately that is not the case most of the time.

If the county spent more of its money on transportation issues in the area you are taking about and less on remodeling a structure

( the astrodome), maybe you would see some improvements in those areas.

I thought Ed Emmott, was on the right track when he was discussing using the existing rail lines for commuter trains which would connect with the outlying stations that Metro is building in its inner city rail system.

When I was young I lived off Gessner in spring branch. At the time it was the edge of town.

I know what living in the burbs is all about. I just don't think this forum or any other on this site needs to lessen the rights of either area, but to work in concert to make the whole work together. Whether we like it or not we're all in the same boat, or bus.

I just think that the inner city needs the grease right now.

Also as a sidebar to someone who said the govt. shouldn't be throwing money away, we'll that's just not very intelligent.

So much money is wasted in areas that really don't help most of us and if we fail to keep up with infrastructure we will become

stuck in a quagmire.

[mfastx]

Those are very righteous and idealistic statements, but they don't reflect the reality of Houston.  Houston isn't segmented quite as cleanly as you would like it to be.  The city of Houston consists of approx 2.2 million people and only 450k of them live inside the loop.  That's excluding the approx 4 million people that live outside of Houston that understandably are not in METROs scope.  

 

METRO is still responsible for providing service to those individuals and responsible transit planning needs to allow for that.  Conversation on this forum is generally focused around the "enlightened" souls that live inside the loop and the lost souls that live in the suburbs while ignoring the segment between the loop and the beltway.  

 

The discussion needs to include how METRO services those areas as well because its not acceptable for METRO to entirely focus their budget on the inner loop. 

 

METRO has spent plenty of money for outside the loop residents.  The fact is that building rail lines is more feasible inside the loop due to their being a proportionally higher potential ridership base. 

 

The P&R system is something that METRO has invested over a billion dollars into. 

 

To this point, METRO has been getting a better return on their investment on "inside the loop" projects. 

[kdog08]

The problem with Metro is that it can't act regionally and can only afford to build major infrastructure projects at the expense of maintaining/expanding local routes. 

[ig2ba]

METRO has spent plenty of money for outside the loop residents. 

...

 

The P&R system is something that METRO has invested over a billion dollars into. 

 

That strikes me as pretty high. I was under the impression that they mostly leveraged existing HOV lanes and that the parking lots were fairly cheap. Did Metro have to pay a portion of those T ramps from the HOV to the P&R lots?

 

Do you have a source for this figure?

[mfastx]

That strikes me as pretty high. I was under the impression that they mostly leveraged existing HOV lanes and that the parking lots were fairly cheap. Did Metro have to pay a portion of those T ramps from the HOV to the P&R lots?

 

Do you have a source for this figure?

 

Christof Spieler who is member of the METRO board has said this in numerous interviews. 

 

It is a very elaborate system with many flyovers.  I'm not surprised at the figure at all honestly.

[Slick Vik]

Christof Spieler who is member of the METRO board has said this in numerous interviews. 

 

It is a very elaborate system with many flyovers.  I'm not surprised at the figure at all honestly.

 

Also that was a billion 30 years ago.

[ig2ba]

Christof Spieler who is member of the METRO board has said this in numerous interviews. 

 

It is a very elaborate system with many flyovers.  I'm not surprised at the figure at all honestly.

 

I guess that's what I'm getting at. I wonder what Metro exactly had to chip in for. It it was just the ramps to the P&R lots (like this: https://maps.google.com/?ll=29.974393,-95.421353&spn=0.001743,0.002401&t=h&z=19), but not the ramps to/from the HOV lanes (like this https://maps.google.com/?ll=29.729187,-95.433568&spn=0.001747,0.002401&t=h&z=19 or this https://maps.google.com/?ll=30.01381,-95.428281&spn=0.003502,0.004801&t=h&z=18 or this https://maps.google.com/?ll=29.775227,-95.369053&spn=0.007022,0.009602&t=h&z=17), that figure seems high to me.

 

If Metro had to pay for a large portion of the HOV lanes and other elaborate connections like the downtown HOV lane monster, I believe the figure you cite, but wonder if Metro is effectively subsidizing drivers, albeit HOV drivers.

[mfastx]

I guess that's what I'm getting at. I wonder what Metro exactly had to chip in for. It it was just the ramps to the P&R lots (like this: https://maps.google.com/?ll=29.974393,-95.421353&spn=0.001743,0.002401&t=h&z=19), but not the ramps to/from the HOV lanes (like this https://maps.google.com/?ll=29.729187,-95.433568&spn=0.001747,0.002401&t=h&z=19 or this https://maps.google.com/?ll=30.01381,-95.428281&spn=0.003502,0.004801&t=h&z=18 or this https://maps.google.com/?ll=29.775227,-95.369053&spn=0.007022,0.009602&t=h&z=17), that figure seems high to me.

 

If Metro had to pay for a large portion of the HOV lanes and other elaborate connections like the downtown HOV lane monster, I believe the figure you cite, but wonder if Metro is effectively subsidizing drivers, albeit HOV drivers.

 

METRO built all of that, because that's where they run their buses.  Every HOV ramp is used by a bus route. 

 

They benefit suburban commuters as well, and that's why there was enough will to spend the money to build them.  Suburban areas are getting plenty of return for their tax dollars.

[ig2ba]

METRO built all of that, because that's where they run their buses.  Every HOV ramp is used by a bus route. 

 

They benefit suburban commuters as well, and that's why there was enough will to spend the money to build them.  Suburban areas are getting plenty of return for their tax dollars.

 

So on the flip side, since they spent all of that money upfront, they now have a revenue source, even if it's only $1000/day/HOT lane (http://app1.kuhf.org/articles/1341957105-Commuters-Could-Dodge-Heavy-Houston-Traffic-With-HOT-Lanes.html).

[mfastx]

So on the flip side, since they spent all of that money upfront, they now have a revenue source, even if it's only $1000/day/HOT lane (http://app1.kuhf.org/articles/1341957105-Commuters-Could-Dodge-Heavy-Houston-Traffic-With-HOT-Lanes.html).

 

Let me clarify by saying that I think it was certainly a good investment.  Even though the entire P&R system carries only around 30,000 or so a day, many other people benefit.  The HOV/HOT lanes are a great asset ATM. 

 

I was just disagreeing with the notion that METRO is only spending money inside the loop.

[Howard Huge]

Look, I know that a lot of people especially those that live in the suburbs and are faced with hour long commutes don't understand or want to hear about the mass transit plans for the inner city and I don't expect everyone to hop on board a train once they're running.

The rail lines that are open, opening and planned, will form a system that will give a relief to some who want to ride and whether those naysayers will ever step foot in one doesn't matter because those that do will take cars off of the streets, which are becoming overburdened. And that's before this new crop of multi mixed use developments being built all over the inner city are even finished.

I shudder to think of the traffic jams along Richmond, West Grey, Dallas, and in the Galleria.

I know it took a while for development to start building along Main, but look at it now. Developers have to be educated just like everyone else and I think we are seeing some of that happening now.

I promise you that in a shorter time than most think once all of the lines are finished including and most importantly the University line this mass transit system will become the new frontier for Houston development.

To finish with one of my favorite lines

"Rome wasn't built in a day", but if we don't plan for the future it can sure take a lot longer.

Example: Go over to that wonderful heaven on earth Austin, Texas, if you want to see gridlock. Just because they were determined to keep out growth and to not develop their infrastructure in the 80's when they should have.

Their traffic is much worse than ours.

Bingo.

We are the fourth largest city in America behind only New York, LA, and Chicago, and projected to be the third largest.

I ask all the anti-rail people, what do those three cities (not to mention countless cities smaller than ours) have in common??

Thats right:

Look at our traffic at its worst now.......

Now picture that traffic 50 years from now when we are the third largest city, and 7 or 8 million people live in the metro area and downtown and the inner loop are twice as dense.

What do you think the gridlock will be like with the same freeway system we have now and no passenger rail? What would your suggestion be then to alleviate the non navigable freeways and roadways? to expand every freeway and road in Houston to 30 lanes a piece like the Katy fwy?

I'll wait for a response....

[Slick Vik]

Those maps don't include future expansion for second avenue line in NYC and Westwood in LA.