London Bombed

[Casual Observer]

So London was bombed today.. who's next?

[YakuzaIce]

Edit: nvrmind I turned on the news and it seems there have been more since this morning.

[jt16]

Unfortunately, this is every day life in many places of the world. I guess the question is which Western country is next?

[YakuzaIce]

Unfortunately, this is every day life in many places of the world.  I guess the question is which Western country is next?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well even for London it was almost common place (well not common but not unthinkable) considering they had the IRA commiting terrorist activities over the years. But the IRA I believe stayed away from the subway for the most part.

[Casual Observer]

So what to do? Should we (the U.S.) stay the current course in Iraq? Should we pull out? Should we consider taking action here at home also?

[infinite_jim]

"Terrorism Is the Surgical Strike Capability of the Oppressed"

sad but true

maybe if they didn't feel "oppressed"?

[Casual Observer]

How many dead people have you ever been known to be "oppressed".

Well, I guess you know how I feel about those scum-bags now.

[YakuzaIce]

"Terrorism Is the Surgical Strike Capability of the Oppressed"

sad but true

maybe if they didn't feel "oppressed"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if they weren't opressed all you need is a few radicals willing to kill themselves to kill many innocent civillians. Also was Timothy McVeigh oppressed. He was upset though with the government and society as a whole I believe.

I just hope that we find a sufficient way to stop terrorism. Even if for example most people in the Middle East for example were happy with the U.S. this would not stop ten people who are not happy with us from planning a terrorist attack.

[westguy]

There is no Gordian Knot. We have to maintain a major force in Iraq for at least another decade. (Not that I am happy with this.) It won't prevent terrorist attacks, but we have to wait until a whole new generation of Iraqis takes over their country, and keep them alive and safe until then.

[jmancuso]

So what to do? Should we (the U.S.) stay the current course in Iraq? Should we pull out? Should we consider taking action here at home also?

we should have never gone into iraq in teh first place but now that we're there, we have to stay and clean the mess we created. if we packed up and left now, that country would be totally anarchy and the ultimate breeding ground for every jihad loving wacko in the region.

but, while we were fvcking around in iraq, bombs are going off in madrid and london by those who we are supposed to be on the look out for in the first place.

[Talbot]

I think we need to be more aware of our borders and we need to gaurd them better. It seems that citizens are more aware and caring than the government is, which is sad.

I think it's pretty stupid when we talk about more security at our borders and making it harder for people to cross and people complain that it's so unfair. IMO I think its pretty unfair to risk the lives of Americans just so that we can let more illegals and crossers in.

[YakuzaIce]

Has the group responsible for the bombing in London been confirmed? I know that a group I think that was called The Organisation of Al-Qaeda and Jihad in Europe wrote on their website that they claim responsibility. So has this been proven in any way?

Also what are peoples opinions on if we theoretically pulled out of Iraq completely tomorrow. Do you think it would be thrown into anarchy with no control whatsoever. Or possibly would a single warlord be able to take control of the country. Or would the current Iraqi government and police force be able to keep control of the country. If you have a different scenario please say so.

[johncoby]

we should have never gone into iraq in teh first place but now that we're there, we have to stay and clean the mess we created. if we packed up and left now, that country would be totally anarchy and the ultimate breeding ground for every jihad loving wacko in the region.

but, while we were fvcking around in iraq, bombs are going off in madrid and london by those who we are supposed to be on the look out for in the first place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Iraq is just such an absolute disaster. The US "misunderestimated" every single bit of intelligence and every bit of planning. We have no exit strategy and we have no real reason to be there. We created a haven for terrorists with a never ending war against an unknown enemy. What a damn disaster.

So, what do we do while the terrorist have organized outside of Iraq and are bombing our allies? Maybe Iraq is just a distraction.

Geez. What the hell are we doing anyway?

[RedScare]

Violence begets violence.

As long as the approach to national security is to send in the bombers and the troops, there will always be the logical response by the opponent to use force in return. If the opponent is far smaller and less armed, the opponent will seek to achieve equality through psychological means...terrorism.

I recognize that the use of force is a popular political response. Flexing military muscle appeals to the human urge to strike back at those who offend us. But Americans do ourselves a disservice by taking this approach. It has only served to grow the ranks of our opponents, not diminish it. It has become the recruiting tool of the terrorists.

The US needs leaders who are willing to take the intelligent approach, not the popular bully approach. This involves unsexy steps such as increasing intelligence capabilities (few of our agents understand Arabic), clandestine operations and quietly taking out terrorist and insurgent leaders to break the backs of terrorist organizations.

Why should this be done quietly? Flamboyant displays of firepower and might give Sean Hannity something to crow about, but it is also splashed on TV screens across the Middle East. The intent is to make them give up, but it only serves to inflame their hatred of the US. If a leader quietly and mysteriously disappears, there is no video. He is not made into a martyr. And few innocents are hurt.

Along with the quiet, methodical approach to fighting terrorism, comes political policy that is less inflammatory to the terrorists. I won't go into detail, other than to say many of our policies are designed merely to bully other smaller groups into our way of thinking. This is why they fight back.

Until Americans demand an intelligent approach to this threat, we will continue to wake up to this news.

[LTAWACS]

Honestly I think religion is the root of the problem. It is a large part of the problem.

[editor]

Well even for London it was almost common place (well not common but not unthinkable) considering they had the IRA commiting terrorist activities over the years.  But the IRA I believe stayed away from the subway for the most part.

I was in London when the IRA bombed Canary Wharf, the tallest building in Europe at the time. I think it was 1997. The people of London showed their British stiff upper lip and went about life as if nothing happened. It was quite remarkable. I remember riding by on the Docklands Light Railway and seeing the hole blown in the side of the building and the shattered glass. That station was closed, but the light rail system kept going.

FWIW: The DLR is a fascinating system. Completely automated. No drivers, no ticket-takers, no people whatsoever. It handles thousands of people each hour flawlessly as far as I could tell.

[editor]

So what to do? Should we (the U.S.) stay the current course in Iraq? Should we pull out? Should we consider taking action here at home also?

I think it's pretty simplistic to think that pulling out of Iraq and/or Afghanistan will change anything. Those are merely convenient excuses the terrorists use to attack Western ideals and culture. If we pulled out of both theaters tomorrow, do you think all the terrorists would put down their weapons and open orphanages and hospitals and kebab houses and lead quiet, simple lives?

These are attacks on our culture by a group of people with a twisted agenda. We weren't in either Iraq or Afghanistan when Al-Qaida killed 3,000 people in New York. Back then their excuse was U.S. aid to Israel. There's always an excuse, and they'll keep coming up with excuses until Western society is a smoldering pile of rubble and we're all dead. Remember, this is a "holy war" against us, not a tactical one where the pieces can be rearranged into a negotiated peace.

They hate us for what we stand for -- freedom, and human rights. Until the entire world is living in the stone age like the Afghanistan under the Taliban, they will continue to attack. Their Nirvana is a pre-industrialized world ruled by fear and pseudo-religion. That is their goal.

[pineda]

Good post, Red Scare. Thank you for that perspective on the situation.

[RedScare]

Honestly I think religion is the root of the problem. It is a large part of the problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doesn't change the approach to combatting it. And that is only one form of terrorism. And if you think our deficit is big now, wait till you see the bill for 'Fortress America', which won't even work. Ever seen any country secure a 5300 mile border (not to mention 6000 miles of coastline)?

[MidtownCoog]

I really wonder when some people think thoughts like "will they pull out now?"

Thank goodness you are not in charge.

[editor]

"Terrorism Is the Surgical Strike Capability of the Oppressed"

sad but true

maybe if they didn't feel "oppressed"?

The problem is that these terrorists are rarely poor or oppressed. They're usually the sons of rich people and the marginalized middle class in countries where the middle class only barely exists. Osama Bin Laden is a billionaire. He's not some mujahidin who rose from the desert to lead a rag-tag army of oppressed people into war. He's the Middle Eastern version of a James Bond villain. A rich kid disowned by his rich family who vows to take out his anger on the world.

Sometimes terrorists claim to be attacking civilization in the name of the poor or oppressed, but it's very rare. The stated reason is almost always religious, even if they're just using that as an excuse for something else (as in the case of OBL).

The 9/11 hijackers weren't oppressed in any sense of the word. In their own countries they were relatively well off. We opened our country to them and have them education and the benefits of our open society. They repaid us by slaughtering thousands of people who had nothing to do with what was going on in the Middle East.

[RedScare]

I didn't ever ask "will they pull out now?". I did question the entire US approach to combatting terrorism.

The editor states that this is a holy war, not effectively fought with classical manuevers. So, why are we fighting it with a classical miltary force?

Wouldn't a better understanding of the opponent enable us to better defeat the opponent? Silly political phrases like 'they hate freedom' and 'they hate our freedom and democracy' is so simplistic as to be laughable...yet it is our official approach to the problem.

Is our blind patriotism and our love of force so overwhelming that we can't see the futility of it? Can you honestly say that this current approach is working? And if it isn't working, wouldn't you insist that our leadership develop an approach that does work?

[MidtownCoog]

Not you. per se. Just people in general.

Remember when Lord Chamberlin came to an understanding with Hitler?

That worked real well, didn't it?

And who is there to understand? It's not like these groups are part of offical governments.

Who is there to negotiate with?

[RedScare]

And who is there to understand?  It's not like these groups are part of offical governments.

Who is there to negotiate with?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My point exactly. You can't fight non-traditional foes with traditional means. The US has a relatively lengthy history of losing to insurgent foes by trying to fight them on a traditional military level. That is the reason they fight that way. Because it undermines a traditional force. IT IS EFFECTIVE.

If we insist on fighting it this way, we will continue to lose this way. We have to take the fight to them on their level. That involves partnering with our allies and making our intelligence better and taking them out stealthily. Quit giving them free advertising. And quit showing them that their approach works.

[kjb434]

Peace was never obtained through dimplomacy. Nor was is obtained through appeasement.

If people would have a good understanding of history and not let politics get into there view, they can truly see what it happening. The editor is making very good points.

Also, PLEASE PEOPLE. Would you actually try to learn what is happening in Iraq outside of listening to the news. There are literally about 15 or more blogs from Iraq. Some are soldiers and many are local Iraqis.

Did you know that 75% of the country has had no terrorists attacks. Did you know that the majority of the attacks in Iraq are from people not from Iraq. Did you know that after the attacks, the citizens in Iraq come out protesting and beating up the remains of the terrorist attacker. The terrorist have no home in Iraq. The citizens are behind the US soldiers.

Over a third of Baghdad is under the control of the Iraqi soldiers and we are only called in if the feel they can't handle the situation. This area of Baghdad hasn't had any terrorist attacks. The citizens are flooding in with tips of suspected terrorists.

The neighboring country of Syria is having pressure put on it because it is actually getting pressure from terrorist groups that believe they are getting soft after they pulled out of Lebanon. Lebanon is forming there democracy with little help from us, but they saw what we are doing in Iraq and realized that they can achieve freedom by FIGHTING against the terrorist and Syrian soldiers.

Ever wonder why we aren't hearing anything out of Afghanistan? No bad news report. The cities are moving along quite well. Women are opening businesses and are beginning to export goods to the US. Opium fields are slowly transitioning to beneficial agricultural fields.

Kadafi in Libya was scared we may do to him what we did with Saddam and gave up all his WMD's. I'm still not happy with Kadafi in control because he is opressing his people, but he has not serious weapons.

Iran's movement of pro-democracy is getting larger. Women are becoming more defiant. They realize their current elections are a sham. They see the people in Iraq and Afghanistan having freedom and want it for themselves.

Also, about the time we are there. You people need to look to the past at previous wars. WWII forced us to stay in Germany to present day. We are currently moving out of there now. We are still located in Japan, now it is more strategic because of China. We are still located in South Korea because of Korean War.

And what about Vietnam. Vietnam represents what happens when we listen to people constanstly badgering and insulting our military. We could have achieved the same results in Vietnam as in Korea or better if the opposition didn't have some many friends within our county. The same thing is occuring today where the terrorist's best friends are the people in the US protesting the War blindly. It's one thing to be a pacifist. It is completely different to oppose this war just because Bush is president.

[RedScare]

Thanks for clearing that up. For a minute there, I thought our approach wasn't working.

I feel much better now.

[Casual Observer]

Someone here listens to Michael Savage.. you know who you are.

Here are some of the problems:

1. Our own politicians fight for the rights of captured insurgants & would be terrorists at Get-Mo.

2. Our own president is allowing illegal aliens to come here by the millions with no repercussions.

3. Our military tactics are to only "return" fire, instead of initiating it.

4. Our media crucifies our soldiers for doing their job.

There are many other problems, but these are the worst. I think we should pull all our reserve troops out and give them 3 month rotations along the border instead. Have the military contract out with private helicoptor companies to fly the borders with thermal cameras. Have them report to the military units along the border and shut these illegal aliens down.

We need that wall built. Mexico first, and just do the thermal sweeps for Canada - for now. We need to get in Canada's face and let them know we're going to hold them responsible for any terrorist activity found to be crossing their border. And then hold them to it.

Once the wall is built, we need to flush out all illegals - round them up and ship them out - no excuses, no questions, no exceptions. If they want to stay here, they'll have from now until the last brick is put into place to sign-up to begin the 5 year citizenship process.

NAFTA - throw it in the trash. CAFTA - throw it in the trash.

We went from a nation of 70% Export 30% Import, to a country of 10% Export 90% Import%. Thats not good. We pay farmers thousands of dollars a year to grow crops that never get eaten. We are an economy of goods & services versus an economy of production. Face it - you can't name ten products at your house that you can proudly say was made here in America can you?

Terrorists will continue to strike no matter what we do. Only once we are 100% at home should we go somewhere else to fight. And the next time we fight, we need to bring 100%. I'm talking weeks of carpet bombings, full force-on-force infantry & armor operations, and then swift and efficent deletion of any insurgants (thats a nice way of me saying that we should drag them out into the streets, and anounce on the bullhorn that we will instantly kill anyone we think is a terrorist, right before we kill them).

You puppies want to win a war by building the schools before you tear the old ones down. Have you all forgotten how we won World War 2 in the Pacific? And no - Russia didn't win that one for us - our Marine Corp. & two Nuclear bombs did.

My point? Is that until we protect ourselves, how can we begin to protect other countries? Iraq, like Korea & Vietnam, & Somalia, is a lost cause. We need to pull our troops out, thank them for the job done - alway remain that we were there to stop terrorism and focus on homeland security.

Finally, Before any of you piece of ____ hippies say anything about my thoughts on bringing my boys home - I want them home so that they can protect me, and not someone who doesn't care, doesn't pay taxes, and doesn't take their freedom for granted..

[kjb434]

I'm for most of what you've said except about our economy. It's getting harder and harder for us to produce things in this country that are affordable.

Actually, manufacturing jobs are up. Look at most foreign cars, they're build here. Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Mercedes Benz, and BMW all have plants here for assembly.

[LTAWACS]

Doesn't change the approach to combatting it.  And that is only one form of terrorism.  And if you think our deficit is big now, wait till you see the bill for 'Fortress America', which won't even work.  Ever seen any country secure a 5300 mile border (not to mention 6000 miles of coastline)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's about time we close our borders anyway.

[MidtownCoog]

Closed borders is absurd. Controled borders is the answer.

Amazing to see the Dallas Morning News commentary:

The war on terror goes on. Indeed it does, indeed it must. This is a battle between barbarism and civilization. Islamist terrorists