Occupy Wall Street?

[RedScare]

Based on my knowledge of highly-intelligent English-speaking graduate-degreed Indians' pay structure, their wages could triple and nobody would especially care. Three of them providing triple-redundant quality control are still a fraction of the cost of one commensurately-skilled American doing a job for which the American is less motivated. In that context, the incidental costs are irrelevant.

Yeah, I suppose you are correct.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/17/news/economy/made_in_usa/index.htm

http://www.clarkhoward.com/news/clark-howard/employment-military/outsourced-call-centers-jobs-coming-back-us/nCqZP/

http://freemarketalternative.blogspot.com/2011/10/reshoring-jobs-coming-back-to-usa-for.html

http://www.chron.com/business/article/Houston-s-Farouk-Systems-to-hire-1-277-this-year-1738865.php (Made In Houston)

[TheNiche]

Yeah, I suppose you are correct.

Its true that some manufacturing operations aren't well-suited to outsourcing. For instance, final assembly is best done closest to the market that a plant serves; it's a function of the shipping costs, which are derived from weight, volume, and distance. Another consideration is that outsourcing only works especially well for process-oriented business operations. Creativity is not their strong suit. It is also the case that some companies' call centers are better-suited to outsourcing than others; India is for high-volume low-margin service calls, and even then, not all of the calls. And where wages are concerned, places like India have regional differences in wage rates and wage growth; Mumbai and Chennai are worlds apart, like comparing New York City with Houston. No doubt, a company that rushes into outsourcing too quickly without thinking can get burned.

And then there's the monetary effect... Since each dollar that goes to someone overseas is merely a claim for a dollar's worth of domestically-produced goods and services, it will necessarily come back to us. So what? Its all about comparative advantage.

[Ross]

...

And then there's the monetary effect... Since each dollar that goes to someone overseas is merely a claim for a dollar's worth of domestically-produced goods and services, it will necessarily come back to us. So what? Its all about comparative advantage.

Not necessarily. Dollars go to the Middle East to buy oil or gas, to Europe to buy goods, etc. Lots of the dollars never come back here at all. Do some research on eurodollars.

[Marksmu]

Its true that some manufacturing operations aren't well-suited to outsourcing. For instance, final assembly is best done closest to the market that a plant serves; it's a function of the shipping costs, which are derived from weight, volume, and distance. Another consideration is that outsourcing only works especially well for process-oriented business operations. Creativity is not their strong suit. It is also the case that some companies' call centers are better-suited to outsourcing than others; India is for high-volume low-margin service calls, and even then, not all of the calls. And where wages are concerned, places like India have regional differences in wage rates and wage growth; Mumbai and Chennai are worlds apart, like comparing New York City with Houston. No doubt, a company that rushes into outsourcing too quickly without thinking can get burned.

And then there's the monetary effect... Since each dollar that goes to someone overseas is merely a claim for a dollar's worth of domestically-produced goods and services, it will necessarily come back to us. So what? Its all about comparative advantage.

Generally you can not outsource anything that contains valuable trade secrets or un-patented ideas that can be easily reverse engineered. I work for a manufacturing company and we outsource absolutely nothing because 90% or better of our products contain features that we consider trade secrets....they are not easily reverse engineered but if you were to have the components manufactured somewhere else, it would not be difficult to figure out just exactly what we are doing....so nothing at all is outsourced....we have over 500 people here in Texas - nearly every one of them manufacturing.

Aside from that - those peaceful- non socialist occupy protesters were up their shenanigans in Oakland again last night....breaking into a building and "taking it back for the people"....completely shutting down a port, and costing taxpayers millions....These protests are escalating in their boldness because the media and the people have stopped caring about what they are doing....not a single media report stated that police provoked anything....just more pointless protesting costing the people who actually work for a living money.

[samagon]

Generally you can not outsource anything that contains valuable trade secrets or un-patented ideas that can be easily reverse engineered. I work for a manufacturing company and we outsource absolutely nothing because 90% or better of our products contain features that we consider trade secrets....they are not easily reverse engineered but if you were to have the components manufactured somewhere else, it would not be difficult to figure out just exactly what we are doing....so nothing at all is outsourced....we have over 500 people here in Texas - nearly every one of them manufacturing.

Aside from that - those peaceful- non socialist occupy protesters were up their shenanigans in Oakland again last night....breaking into a building and "taking it back for the people"....completely shutting down a port, and costing taxpayers millions....These protests are escalating in their boldness because the media and the people have stopped caring about what they are doing....not a single media report stated that police provoked anything....just more pointless protesting costing the people who actually work for a living money.

This is a great example of a reason not to export jobs, but computer products, DELL has been sourcing parts from ASUS for decades, it all started with memory, if memory serves, and then they brokered a deal for motherboards, now nothing is done in Austin, it all comes from ASUS, and when ASUS got big enough, they said 'wait, we can make and sell this stuff for cheaper on our own!'. anyway. it's only part of the problem.

This is the problem with having a huge loose organization without any cohesiveness other than 'we're angry' and 'someone should be held accountable'. It's probable that OWS movements around the country would look down on the oakland stuff that happened yesterday, but no central voice to speak, no message. all we know is that they're still angry because no one is held accountable for the actions of the banks.

[samagon]

reading articles today, it's hard to say right now, cause it's early yet, but if the violence that happened in Oakland yesterday happens more and in more places, it looks like where the TP got taken over by the hard core right, OWS may be taken over by violence.

[TheNiche]

reading articles today, it's hard to say right now, cause it's early yet, but if the violence that happened in Oakland yesterday happens more and in more places, it looks like where the TP got taken over by the hard core right, OWS may be taken over by violence.

I have to wonder whether a movement premised on the physical occupation of an outdoor space might simlply be undermined by winter weather.

[samagon]

There is that, they did survive the early snowfall, so who knows?

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[Marksmu]

Linked from Drudge this morning...this is where I have thought this movement was headed all along...we will see if it happens.

http://nation.foxnews.com/occupy-wall-street/2011/11/03/union-chief-we-need-more-militancy-blocking-bridges-occupying-banks

Union boss telling the occupiers they are going to have to get militant. Right now occupy is just an inconvenience to people who are unfortunate enough to be near them....if they start doing more illegal things like blocking bridges, or ports, they should all be arrested.

[west20th]

Linked from Drudge this morning...this is where I have thought this movement was headed all along...we will see if it happens.

http://nation.foxnew...occupying-banks

Union boss telling the occupiers they are going to have to get militant. Right now occupy is just an inconvenience to people who are unfortunate enough to be near them....if they start doing more illegal things like blocking bridges, or ports, they should all be arrested.

A link to Fox News from the Drudge report? No thanks.

[Marksmu]

A link to Fox News from the Drudge report? No thanks.

Quoting from the Ed Schultz show.....but your inability to even listen to the "news" from both sides shows your bias. I read something from Fox, and I immediately look for the corresponding story from CNN or MSNBC....but hey, stay close minded - I'm told it will really help you learn things throughout your life.

[west20th]

Quoting from the Ed Schultz show.....but your inability to even listen to the "news" from both sides shows your bias. I read something from Fox, and I immediately look for the corresponding story from CNN or MSNBC....but hey, stay close minded - I'm told it will really help you learn things throughout your life.

I don't consider Fox a reliable news source. Reliable news sources do not use fake video footage to "enhance" their point of view.

[Marksmu]

I don't consider Fox a reliable news source. Reliable news sources do not use fake video footage to "enhance" their point of view.

Then there are no reliable news sources left for you because all of them have an angle....Fox just happens to be right leaning, while MSNBC, CNN, ABC CBS, NBC, and every other channel leans left - all of them enhance their points of view. The print news is just as biased, so honestly unless you have your own journalist on your own payroll then everything you are getting has a bias in it before it makes it to you...You just lean left, so you are unwilling to watch a channel that says things you dont agree with...so you get one side of the story only...you probably still think Obama and the democrats are doing a good job.

I'm not willing to pay Ed Schultz anything for his podcast or transcript, so I cant independently verify it for you but I dont believe the lines are made up, so I will stand by them with my source being above.

If you are too close minded to read it, that is your problem.

[samagon]

ignoring the rest of the article from fox (which I will say had quite an editorial spin) here's the important quote that is attributed to Leo Gerard:

GERARD: I think we've got to start a resistance movement. If Wall Street occupation doesn't get the message, I think we've got to start blocking bridges and doing that kind of stuff. This doesn't have to be this way. The economy doesn't have to be this way. It's being put this way because the Wall Streeters are getting their way.

I am unsuccessful in finding the full quote, but it was on a radio show with Ed Schultz where he said this, so I'm sure the full text of the show is somewhere, I really hope this is out of context though.

edit: found this link, which has audio:

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1324/227/Union_Chief_Leo_Gerard:_Resistance_Movement_Needed_to_Seize_Bridges,_Banks_in_Case_OWS_Fails.html

I'm sure this is a 'conservative website', and you probably don't want to read it, but reading the actual words that came out of his mouth aren't going to hurt you, unless enlightenment is going to injure you.

Read it or not, doesn't make me no nevermind, but it's definitely amazing that someone in a leadership role such as he saying things like:

We oughta be doing more than occupying parks. We oughta start occupying bridges. We start oughta occupying the banks places themselves.

hell, if you think the quotes are faked, there's audio there as well.

[west20th]

Then there are no reliable news sources left for you because all of them have an angle....Fox just happens to be right leaning, while MSNBC, CNN, ABC CBS, NBC, and every other channel leans left - all of them enhance their points of view. The print news is just as biased, so honestly unless you have your own journalist on your own payroll then everything you are getting has a bias in it before it makes it to you...You just lean left, so you are unwilling to watch a channel that says things you dont agree with...so you get one side of the story only...you probably still think Obama and the democrats are doing a good job.

I'm not willing to pay Ed Schultz anything for his podcast or transcript, so I cant independently verify it for you but I dont believe the lines are made up, so I will stand by them with my source being above.

If you are too close minded to read it, that is your problem.

No one is arguing that some cable news has a bias. IMO only MSNBC has a left leaning bias. You conveniently ignored the point of my post. It is not the bias I have issue with it is the lying to support that bias. You do not have an issue with with Fox posting false videos to support their point of view?

Google incorrect video fox news wisconsin . When you are done with that research the incorrect videos Fox used to make the Tea Party attendance seem to be greater than it was. This is enough for me to view Fox News with much skepticism.

[west20th]

ignoring the rest of the article from fox (which I will say had quite an editorial spin) here's the important quote that is attributed to Leo Gerard:

I am unsuccessful in finding the full quote, but it was on a radio show with Ed Schultz where he said this, so I'm sure the full text of the show is somewhere, I really hope this is out of context though.

edit: found this link, which has audio:

http://beforeitsnews..._OWS_Fails.html

I'm sure this is a 'conservative website', and you probably don't want to read it, but reading the actual words that came out of his mouth aren't going to hurt you, unless enlightenment is going to injure you.

Read it or not, doesn't make me no nevermind, but it's definitely amazing that someone in a leadership role such as he saying things like:

hell, if you think the quotes are faked, there's audio there as well.

I have no issue with the truthfulness of the quote on Ed Schultz's show. My only point to MarkSMU was that I had no interest in going to Fox New's site because they lie. Their editorial spin has nothing to do with it. Sorry if I wasn't very clear on that.

[Marksmu]

No one is arguing that some cable news has a bias. IMO only MSNBC has a left leaning bias. You conveniently ignored the point of my post. It is not the bias I have issue with it is the lying to support that bias. You do not have an issue with with Fox posting false videos to support their point of view?

Google incorrect video fox news wisconsin . When you are done with that research the incorrect videos Fox used to make the Tea Party attendance seem to be greater than it was. This is enough for me to view Fox News with much skepticism.

I dont think any network is trying to pass off their editorialized "news" as real news....Bill O Riley, Shaun Hannity, etc are clearly just entertainment....some of it is true, some of it is sensationalized...exactly like CNN - All of CNN's "shows" that are not actually news programming are slanted left....I dont watch any cable news if I can help it, so I cant really speak to the accuracy of the just news portion - but nobody is trying to pass off Bill O Riley, or Shaun Hannity as news anchors....

There is entertainment on news channels, and there is news on news channels - the clip you referred to above was from Shaun Hannity....that is entertainment - not news.

[west20th]

I dont think any network is trying to pass off their editorialized "news" as real news....Bill O Riley, Shaun Hannity, etc are clearly just entertainment....some of it is true, some of it is sensationalized...exactly like CNN - All of CNN's "shows" that are not actually news programming are slanted left....I dont watch any cable news if I can help it, so I cant really speak to the accuracy of the just news portion - but nobody is trying to pass off Bill O Riley, or Shaun Hannity as news anchors....

There is entertainment on news channels, and there is news on news channels - the clip you referred to above was from Shaun Hannity....that is entertainment - not news.

Lying is OK if it is not news? We definately will have to agree to disagree on that.

[TheNiche]

Lying is OK if it is not news? We definately will have to agree to disagree on that.

If information that is not warranted as fact is provided by one party to another party without the existence of a broadly-defined fiduciary relationship, then I believe it to be the responsibility of the recipient of the information to exercise reasonable care prior to acting upon it in any consequential manner. To that end, a reasonable individual should understand that the purpose of for-profit televised content is to generate advertising revenue and that their best interests are not being represented...ever! The truth is an unreasonable expectation.

If Star Trek has taught me anything, it's that all of life's problems can be solved by reversing the polarity. But yeah, it hasn't taught me anything. That was never the point of watching it.

[LarryDierker]

Foxnews showed a clip from the 08 Republican debate of Ron Paul. They added a track of boos and in the actual debate he received applause. They got caught and had to issue an apology(not on air of course)

That is far beyond spinning the truth. It is manipulation.

[VicMan]

Foxnews showed a clip from the 08 Republican debate of Ron Paul. They added a track of boos and in the actual debate he received applause. They got caught and had to issue an apology(not on air of course)

That is far beyond spinning the truth. It is manipulation.

Is there a news article about that?

[jgriff]

Based on my knowledge of highly-intelligent English-speaking graduate-degreed Indians' pay structure, their wages could triple and nobody would especially care. Three of them providing triple-redundant quality control are still a fraction of the cost of one commensurately-skilled American doing a job for which the American is less motivated. In that context, the incidental costs are irrelevant.

I don't think you've worked in business that involves Indian offshoring so I don't know how you have such a good understanding of how it works but you are right on the money. I've worked with Indian technical people for years. They are great people to work with. In many ways they are more American than we are now. I've never met one I didn't like. You're understanding of the cost of labor and how it relates to the U.S. is very close to correct. The Indian technical people I work with don't have the expertise of their peers in the U.S. but we still don't let them do things three times over. The way it works in EPC companies is that the Indian workshare site is guranteed 500,000 ot some other amount of hours a year. They get the money no matter what they do. We find things that they can do for us becuase the money is already gone. I personally hand off all the work I don't want to do to them. They are better then U.S. staff at following directions. Most of them are not independent thinkers like U.S. stafff though. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not. I work with people from all over the world and the Indians are probably my favorite. They want to integrate into American society more than any other culture. Sometimes that's good and sometimes not.

I haven't followed this thread but thought about it today when the OWSers blocked traffic downtown. I feel for them. I felt the same way when I graduated from college and still had to work in a grocery store for $5.25 an hour. I think we should put them in charge. It's their turn. If they think they have a better way more power to them. I'm old enough to not care anymore. I don't really believe in the U.S. anymore anyway. They can make it a socialist society and I'll be OK.

[TheNiche]

I don't think you've worked in business that involves Indian offshoring so I don't know how you have such a good understanding of how it works but you are right on the money. I've worked with Indian technical people for years. They are great people to work with. In many ways they are more American than we are now. I've never met one I didn't like. You're understanding of the cost of labor and how it relates to the U.S. is very close to correct. The Indian technical people I work with don't have the expertise of their peers in the U.S. but we still don't let them do things three times over. The way it works in EPC companies is that the Indian workshare site is guranteed 500,000 ot some other amount of hours a year. They get the money no matter what they do. We find things that they can do for us becuase the money is already gone. I personally hand off all the work I don't want to do to them. They are better then U.S. staff at following directions. Most of them are not independent thinkers like U.S. stafff though. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not. I work with people from all over the world and the Indians are probably my favorite. They want to integrate into American society more than any other culture. Sometimes that's good and sometimes not.

I have worked with them, actually. Just took two Indian expats to lunch today, and I work with them closely to fulfill my needs. I completely agree; the ambitious nature of Indians and the warmth of their culture is an inspiration. Even still, the notion of comparative advantage is paramount. India is for process work; the United States is for project work and strategic-level thinking.

[LarryDierker]

Is there a news article about that?

My dates may have been off but the fact remains

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/fox-faces-fallout-over-misleading-footage-ron-paul-20110217-092653-299.html

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-airing-of-old-cpac-footage-showing-crowd-booing-ron-paul-was-a-mistake/

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/113339/20110216/ron-paul-cpac.htm

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/16/fox-news-caught-running-old-cpac-footage-after-ron-pauls-straw/

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/6345-fox-news-deceives-public-and-ron-paul

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=34396

[tamtagon]

Fun to read!

[Marksmu]

Triumph Occupies Wall Street...pretty funny...

http://teamcoco.com/video/triumph-occupy-wall-st

[samagon]

Lol, that's great.

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[trymahjong]

Bloomberg ordered the park cleared at 1am this morning

[Marksmu]

Bloomberg ordered the park cleared at 1am this morning

About time - I really do hope this is the end of the nasty movement. Since the media quit paying attention to the protest it had become largely pointless anyway.

[Marksmu]

Some High class OWS protestor....takes a dump right on the sidewalk in clear view of the street...not sure why he hides behind the mail drop....its not likely every car can't see him.

http://tv.breitbart.com/caught-on-video-occupy-protester-defecates-in-public-street/