Metro train hits Metro bus

[AtticaFlinch]

Insurance company isn't going to raise premiums on a company that rams its vehicles into each other? Deductible is only $10K on a vehicle this expensive?

Oh, I wouldn't know the answer to either of those questions. My figure was a guess. I'm not in the insurance game, and I wouldn't have the slightest inkling how to begin to assess risk and assign rates for an entity like METRO. However, the larger point was that we the taxpayers won't be on the hook for anywhere close to whatever the final pricetag will be for this little fiasco and it's pointless to consider - unless METRO is self-insured. Then we're screwed.

[Fringe]

LOL. According to their annual report they are self insured:

METRO is self-insured, except for property risk insurance, for which it pays

an annual premium to a third-party insurance company. This policy covers

risk of loss to all real and personal property, including transit buses, located

on METRO’s property, but excludes off-property coverage.

link

Edited February 9, 2010 by Fringe

[barracuda]

You're pushing the limits of the tern "professional bus driver". Everyday I see at least 2 buses run red lights. One day, a driver of one of the short buses cut me off in the middle of traffic. I had to swerve to avoid hitting him. When we came upon the next red light, he started throwing gang signs at me and "mad dogging" me with this "tough and hard" looks. Needless to say I called in this lovely incident. Either way, most drivers are far from professional. That's another reason why I stopped riding the bus.

I think it's the sheer size and road-hogging ability of these behemoths that cause the most frustration. Trying to make a right turn from Pierce at rush hour, or getting stuck behind a bus blocking both lanes on Westheimer after the Bagby are my favorites. I just try to remind myself that each of these buses is taking numerous smaller vehicles off the road and helping those who depend on them to get around town.

That said, thanks to the bus driver who drove right through a red light and blocked the entire road for oncoming vehicles who had the green light near DG last week.

[AtticaFlinch]

LOL. According to their annual report they are self insured:

link

D'oh!

[ricco67]

....most drivers are far from professional. That's another reason why I stopped riding the bus.

So you're saying more than 50% of the drivers are unprofessional? Please. I know a few drivers and all of them seem to have their head on straight. The biggest problem they have is other drivers being cognizant of what it takes to drive such a massive machine and the pressure they are under as they always seem to be targeted by other cars and pedestrian on the roads.

To say that "MOST" of the drivers are unprofessional smacks of painting a broad paintbrush on a complicated issue you have no clue on. Sorta' like "It's Obama's fault my water main broke!"

[TheNiche]

So should cross traffic (I mean regular automobile traffic) be grade separated at every intersection to prevent collisions when some imbecile runs a red light? I mean, really, what does it matter if it's a light rail train or a bus or a big rig? Does it make some difference somehow when it's on rails?

Believe it or not we're not the only city with street level LRT.

No, it should be grade separated at every major intersection so as not to interfere with the free flow of traffic. The value of human life such as is threatened by transit is not nearly so great as is the value of the leisure time that it could potentially save...provided that it is properly implemented, which it is not IMO.

Of course, if potential liabilities could be mitigated by implementing strategic grade separations, that'd be a plus.

[jfre81]

Oh, I'd like it to be grade-separated just so things would run more smoothly, but it's not some great disaster that it's not. For a flawed system it performs pretty well for something they used to say nobody would ride. But I really don't think it would've ever passed if the expense for grade separations where they didn't exist before (e.g. Fannin at Holcombe) because people are loathe to spend on infrastructure....unless it's more freeways.

That said, how does the LRT interfere with the free flow of traffic? What is the difference between sitting at a red light for other cars and sitting at one for a train? Other than the train takes less time to clear the intersection than it would if everyone on the train was driving their own car. Traffic is traffic, whether it's on tires or rails.

[editor]

That's pretty irresponsible for a professional bus driver to run a red light

Oh, thanks for that! I just laughed out loud at Starbucks and people are looking at me like I'm a lunatic.

I ride the bus pretty much every day, and at least here in Chicago the drivers are constantly running lights. I blame a combination of inertia caused by the laws of physics acting on a massive vehicle and the fact that the buses are all tracked by GPS now and if the driver is more than a couple of minutes behind (or ahead!) or schedule something in the driver area start beeping horribly. I presume this is accompanied by something being silently recorded back at the bus barn or transit headquarters.

No, it should be grade separated at every major intersection so as not to interfere with the free flow of traffic. The value of human life such as is threatened by transit is not nearly so great as is the value of the leisure time that it could potentially save...provided that it is properly implemented, which it is not IMO.

It's not like Metro wouldn't spend the money on a subway if it could.

You know as well as I do that few in Houston want to pay for grade separation.

The voters had a choice and they decided that they value human lives is less than the impact it would have on their personal taxes.

You can solve any problem with enough tax money.

[TheNiche]

Oh, I'd like it to be grade-separated just so things would run more smoothly, but it's not some great disaster that it's not. For a flawed system it performs pretty well for something they used to say nobody would ride. But I really don't think it would've ever passed if the expense for grade separations where they didn't exist before (e.g. Fannin at Holcombe) because people are loathe to spend on infrastructure....unless it's more freeways.

The evidence would suggest that you're correct. Popular opinion and official policy run counter to my personal conclusions on the matter. That's not going to shut me up, though.

That said, how does the LRT interfere with the free flow of traffic?

The Red Line is the most forgiving alignment there ever was. Along most of the route, there are parallel high-capacity streets just one block away and a grid system that effectively distributes traffic so that the volume of traffic that has to cross it at any one time is fairly moderate. Still, the Red Line and signal prioritization also disrupt signal timing for those trying to cross it perpendicularly. There are presently only two or three truely problematic intersections, but the worst offender is at the South Loop, where traffic backs up horribly on a daily basis. Fannin & Braeswood is also unpleasant during rush hours. The Red Line and signal prioritization also disrupt signal timing for those trying to cross it perpendicularly. Sometimes signal prioritization fails and the light rail vehicle has to wait for the signal to change.

Things will be worse on the new lines, which will require dozens of new signalized intersections, stop lights at platforms, and which will run along corridors that do not have a street grid capable of distributing traffic so efficiently. Additionally, the traffic counts are going to be tremendously higher at crossings such as Chimney Rock & Westpark, Kirby & Richmond, Shepherd & Richmond, Westheimer & Post Oak, and San Felipe & Post Oak.

What is the difference between sitting at a red light for other cars and sitting at one for a train? Other than the train takes less time to clear the intersection than it would if everyone on the train was driving their own car. Traffic is traffic, whether it's on tires or rails.

We aren't debating the no-build scenario.

We're debating whether additional funds are merited to provide grade separations at strategic locations. The grade separations would not cause transit to be any less desirable.

[TheNiche]

It's not like Metro wouldn't spend the money on a subway if it could.

You know as well as I do that few in Houston want to pay for grade separation.

You're telling Houstonians that they aren't willing to pay for something that reduces congestion and enhances the safety for automobiles!? That's pretty dubious.

It doesn't take a subway, just a brief flyover.

The voters had a choice and they decided that they value human lives is less than the impact it would have on their personal taxes.

You can solve any problem with enough tax money.

To the best of my recollection, grade separations weren't on the ballot.

[ricco67]

My memory is sketchy on this, but I don't recall if this Redline was on the ballot, even if it did, I'm sure the added costs would have made it die at the polls.

Like someone said, people don't like spending money on infrastructure.

[TheNiche]

My memory is sketchy on this, but I don't recall if this Redline was on the ballot, even if it did, I'm sure the added costs would have made it die at the polls.

Like someone said, people don't like spending money on infrastructure.

The people who voted against LRT on the basis of cost went into it with a mentality that it was qualitatively "too much" money. "Too much" plus any other number still equals "too much". The rest of the voters either don't understand concepts of money or didn't especially care, ultimately, that the Red Line came in over budget.

So yeah, I just don't buy that.

[RedScare]

This thread makes me laugh.

[LTAWACS]

So you're saying more than 50% of the drivers are unprofessional? Please. I know a few drivers and all of them seem to have their head on straight. The biggest problem they have is other drivers being cognizant of what it takes to drive such a massive machine and the pressure they are under as they always seem to be targeted by other cars and pedestrian on the roads.

To say that "MOST" of the drivers are unprofessional smacks of painting a broad paintbrush on a complicated issue you are an expert on. Sorta' like "It's Obama's fault my water main broke!"

Yes. Most are unprofessional. And by most I mean a huge portion of them... They run red lights... fail to make complete stops... fail to use their turn signals... drive faster than the speed limit (even in school zones for chrissakes... hell even POLICE do this!)... run all over the road... run red lights... talk on their cell phones... accelerate before the light turns green... UGH!

They dont seem to be targeted by other cars to me... quite the opposite.

[jfre81]

Let me rephrase my statement from earlier - they are EXPECTED to be professional drivers.

Now, not all of them are like this. I feel safer on average riding in a METRO bus than I do as a passenger driven by a lot of people I know better than METRO drivers.

[samagon]

No, it should be grade separated at every major intersection so as not to interfere with the free flow of traffic. The value of human life such as is threatened by transit is not nearly so great as is the value of the leisure time that it could potentially save...provided that it is properly implemented, which it is not IMO.

Of course, if potential liabilities could be mitigated by implementing strategic grade separations, that'd be a plus.

Don't forget we need grade separation for bicycle traffic, and pedestrian traffic.

Heh, the intersection at Westheimer and Post Oak is going to be 8 stacks high!

The original subject matter still intrigues me though, was the bus the immovable object, or the irresistible force? which one was the winner?

[Fringe]

I've always said if we would get rid of the damn buses there wouldn't be a traffic problem. Have you ever been behind one? They stop every 100 feet.  And now we have kamikaze drivers. 

[jfre81]

Buses are just part of driving in Houston. I give them a pretty wide berth, just like I do the morons texting or chatting on their cellphones.

[kylejack]

I've always said if we would get rid of the damn buses there wouldn't be a traffic problem. Have you ever been behind one? They stop every 100 feet. And now we have kamikaze drivers.

Instead of a bus imagine dozens of cars on the road in front of you carrying all those people.

[AtticaFlinch]

Instead of a bus imagine dozens of cars on the road in front of you carrying all those people.

Now imagine it's just one car, a clown car, and it's full of the same number of people, except they're all clowns. Not exactly feasible for all public transportation, but when it happens, it's amusing.

[N Judah]

My memory is sketchy on this, but I don't recall if this Redline was on the ballot, even if it did, I'm sure the added costs would have made it die at the polls.

Yep! That's what this is all about. No LRT = a huge win for the freeway junkies.

Edit: I've ridden on the 77 (was it the 77?) and run that light literally dozens of times. Something about the way the route is set up seems to make it conducive to red light running. I think a lot of it has to do with having to pick up/drop off on one side of the street and then having to get all the way over into the left hand lane to be positioned to enter the bus terminal.

Edited February 9, 2010 by N Judah

[Fringe]

Now imagine it's just one car, a clown car, and it's full of the same number of people, except they're all clowns. Not exactly feasible for all public transportation, but when it happens, it's amusing.

[Hanuman]

Everyday I see at least 2 buses run red lights. One day, a driver of one of the short buses cut me off in the middle of traffic. I had to swerve to avoid hitting him. When we came upon the next red light, he started throwing gang signs at me and "mad dogging" me with this "tough and hard" looks.

Very good observation techniques, grasshopper! But, wise man say, " Not smart riding tricycle in bus lane....

Do not fear until you see Hanuman Hindi Gang throwing symbols Dude!

[editor]

Update from Metro:

------------------

METRO is sufficiently far enough along in its investigation of Monday’s light-rail accident to determine that the operator of the METRO bus involved in the accident was at fault for running a red light.

The accident occurred around 3:30 p.m. at the intersection of St. Joseph Parkway and Main Street.

The operator, Reginald Rideout, remains suspended without pay pending the completion of METRO’s investigation. A METRO operator for 10 years, Rideout, 50, has been involved in three accidents during his employment, two of which were minor, but deemed preventable.

-----------------

And let's try to keep this thread on topic.

[Trae]

This Metro on Metro crime has to stop.

[jfre81]

This Metro on Metro crime has to stop.

lololol

And in front of HQ too.

The video KTRK just showed was from the train's POV and there was a red light on Main. But aren't all intersections red-lighted for regular traffic when the train's passing?

[JLWM8609]

But aren't all intersections red-lighted for regular traffic when the train's passing?

I think traffic going north and south on Greenbriar at OST can have a green light while the train is passing since they're traveling parallel to the train. There are also left turn signals and left turn lanes on that section, so it's a little different than the Midtown and Downtown sections of track.

[kylejack]

Note also that Main Street is flagged with flashing red lights embedded in the road reminding you not to run the red light. There's really no excuse for him running this light.

[JamesL]

Downtown and midtown intersections go "all red" for the train to pass through. This change was made after all those left-turn accidents. So it may look like the train is passing under a red traffic signal but the rail signal permits the movement.