Memorial Vs. Stratford

[kylejack]

Since we've enjoyed playing so many "what if" games thus far, let's rephrase the question that way so as to allow yourself to speculate about your possible reaction.

What if you just so happened to find yourself outside the loop in Houston, in a place like Vidor, where racism is rampant and not only accepted, but the norm. Let's just suppose you were there and maybe even in a bar. Let's say you were enjoying yourself, completely oblivious to the fact everybody in the bar already wants to kick your ass because you're drinking pussified, yuppie beer, and someone tells an off-color joke. What do you do? Do you really make a scene about it? Do you really?

I think your response would be the only correct response in dealing with things that offend you. You ignore it. You walk away from it. You don't get up in faces for every slight or offense, or you'd be in more faces than that one horse's wiener.

Your hypothetical has me doing something I would never do, drink a beer in Vidor. Obviously I would consider my own safety any time I'm standing up for what's right.

[AtticaFlinch]

Your hypothetical has me doing something I would never do, drink a beer in Vidor. Obviously I would consider my own safety any time I'm standing up for what's right.

I'm still bothered by your certainty that yours is the only opinion that's right. Then again, I tend to picture the entire universe as a chaotic free-for-all, and when we humans developed cultures and societies, we defined our ethics and morals based on what made the most sense to keep the group a cohesive unit. As such, morals and ethics are relative based on a number of factors, including age, location and financial well being. In other words, there is no absolute right and there is no absolute wrong. It's just something to consider prior to the next time you get up in someone's face over the image on a t-shirt or whatever else you get up in people's faces for.

BTW, this is how you should have worded your last sentence: Obviously I would consider my own safety any time I'm standing up for what I think is right.

[kylejack]

I'm still bothered by your certainty that yours is the only opinion that's right.

I am not interested in discussing the idea that maybe the N word is not so bad after all.

Then again, I tend to picture the entire universe as a chaotic free-for-all, and when we humans developed cultures and societies, we defined our ethics and morals based on what made the most sense to keep the group a cohesive unit. As such, morals and ethics are relative based on a number of factors, including age, location and financial well being. In other words, there is no absolute right and there is no absolute wrong. It's just something to consider prior to the next time you get up in someone's face over the image on a t-shirt or whatever else you get up in people's faces for.

I am not a moral relativist.

BTW, this is how you should have worded your last sentence: Obviously I would consider my own safety any time I'm standing up for what I think is right.

The n word is a bad word. I am definitely right about this.

[AtticaFlinch]

I am not interested in discussing the idea that maybe the N word is not so bad after all.

There might be a handful of black comedians and black rappers who will disagree with you. And, while I personally don't think it's right for me to casually use the word, if I happened to be reading Huckleberry Finn aloud, I wouldn't censor myself by substituting "N-word" or an audible "bleep" every time the real deal popped up in the text.

I am not a moral relativist.

Sure you are. Everybody ultimately is. Even if you think morality is derived from God, your sense of morality is based on your interpretation of God, not literally God's word (as God doesn't talk to anyone but the Pope).

The n word is a bad word. I am definitely right about this.

Do you use any other bad words? I drop F-bombs like I'm piloting the Enola Gay over Hiroshima. Does that make me bad?

[kylejack]

I'm declaring victory in this thread. I've seen enough.

[AtticaFlinch]

I'm declaring victory in this thread. I've seen enough.

I didn't realize this was a competition. I thought it was a conversation.

[kylejack]

So did I but now you're meandering off into the finer points of N-word etiquette. I'll pass.

[brijonmang]

I think I found this thread a little too far into the de-railment stage...but I remember in HS we had a shirt that said "castrate the cougars" with a depiction of a cougar covering his man parts. Not quite as inappropriate as this shirt, but same premise for the creators. These shirts got passed out for a about half a day before they were all confiscated.

[AtticaFlinch]

So did I but now you're meandering off into the finer points of N-word etiquette. I'll pass.

Does it offend you? Do you see red when you read Huckleberry Finn too? Is it the thought that maybe you're wrong in your insistence that there is only one right and one wrong answer to this? And BTW, I wasn't the first to equate a t-shirt to racism. That was you. How was I to know you only wanted to drop the N-bomb to prove a point without a discussion as to how it proves nothing?

Edit: And, it's not etiquette I was discussing. You said you didn't think morality was relative. Then you made a statement that the N-word was bad. With no relativism here, this means under all circumstances, that word is bad. Then I gave you some examples where the usage of the word was indeed not bad. I destroyed your paradigm, and I think the real reason you don't want to discuss this any further is that in taking this to its logical conclusion, you'll necessarily have to come to the conclusion that this t-shirt, while it may offend you, is ultimately not bad. Don't worry. I understand. Most people don't like to be forced to scrutinize their long-held beliefs.

[TheNiche]

I am not a moral relativist.

Then you are an ipse dixitist--a living, breathing, walking fallacy.

[porTENT]

LOL, kylejack finally got what was coming to him. .

It's great to see people exposed for what they really are and welcome to the board Attica, your my new favorite poster! Next time just send him the triplicated forms, cuz you just got a paygrade bump.

[kylejack]

It's great to see people exposed for what they really are

What am I, really?

[brijonmang]

What am I, really?

According to HAIF, a lighthouse...

[kylejack]

According to HAIF, a lighthouse...

[AtticaFlinch]

Then you are an ipse dixitist--a living, breathing, walking fallacy.

Unlike the cheerleader, which isn't living, breathing or walking, but she is phallusy.

LOL, kylejack finally got what was coming to him. .

It's great to see people exposed for what they really are and welcome to the board Attica, your my new favorite poster! Next time just send him the triplicated forms, cuz you just got a paygrade bump.

Thanks for the compliment, but for the record, I like most of what KyleJack has to say.

[TJones]

Good thing these kids haven't seen this variant of the "underground" shirt for this Saturday's UH football game. Who knows what they'd do then?

Actually, they'd probably yawn and say, "Lame."

Yes, VERY lame, for the fact that U of H doesn't stand a snowball's chance. PRINT IT !!!

Attica, it is obvious that you have no children. If you did, I am sure you wouldn't mind answering a 7yr. old's questions about what the horses are doing to that girl. I am sure you would let your kid's run around Memorial City mall showing their support of that team by wearing those horse shirts, wouldn't you?

[AtticaFlinch]

Attica, it is obvious that you have no children. If you did, I am sure you wouldn't mind answering a 7yr. old's questions about what the horses are doing to that girl. I am sure you would let your kid's run around Memorial City mall showing their support of that team by wearing those horse shirts, wouldn't you?

Why do these always turn personal? What's up wit dat?

And Christ Almighty, how many times have I got to say I don't condone the shirts? I'm not so sure you've even read anything I wrote, or you'd have already known your guess about my kid situation was way off base. I'm pretty sure at seven, my daughter won't be able to grasp what's going on in that t-shirt. At that age, it's just another cartoon. And, if she was so hyper-developed and aware beyond her years, I'm willing to bet glimpsing that shirt wouldn't stand a chance of scarring her for life. The "OMG! What about the children?!!" pleas fall on deaf ears over here. If my daughter is so precocious as to ask me about the shirt, I'll explain it the same way thousands of generations of parents did before me when their kids spotted the barnyard animals gettin' it on. I don't think sex is dirty and depraved so I'll have no problem telling my kid the truth. The only reason these teens think the shirt is funny in the first place is because their parents raised them thinking the act was lewd and lascivious. They were never taught to have a healthy respect for sex, and this is the result. It's no natural act for these teens, it's an act of triumph and dominance, right?

And please, don't make this personal again. We can debate this logically without relying on the ol' emotional plea standby argument.

[debmartin]

responses across the board about this are a disappointment to me while not surprising. my 18yr old son turned out to be quite knowledgeable about the shirt and he's a basketball player from another district! fraternity attitudes of "boys will be boys", "jeez can't you take a joke", "this is tradition" etc illustrate how the "good ol' boy" culture perpetuates. i have counseled victims of sexual abuse where women have viewed things like this ambiguously & impassively, observed offender group sessions where perps were genuinely perplexed how sexually degrading images to children or women contributed to their deviance, and sat through constitutional law classes where first amendment rights were lectured to reign supreme above all else. for me it comes down to this, how can ANY credible justification exist for something that inflicts emotional duress or damages self esteem to any student, female or male for that matter. for me the answer is none does exist. the drawing could find a home at hustler or somewhere where like minded individuals gather to enjoy such images under protected speech, like a college campus where adults make up their minds about its fundamental right to exist. but not a secondary educational setting. the subtext of the message is clear, and how many of the students and their parents who defend this would feel the same if each football player and coach ppeared in variations of the shirt for sale. my guess is not even one could manage a smile. was this printed in someone's garage or did a business feel ok to handle the commerce aspects, morality aside? societal sexism aside, is it clear that beatings, stabbings, shootings and deaths occur for lesser perceived transgressions of honor? throw the book at them all is my opinion, and start with each and every teacher & administrator from every school involved in the long term cover up. if the image can be matched to a RL likeness, the cheerleader & her family should sue the school & whatever moron parents raised these little darlings. it's what has girl & boy students labeled sex offenders for "sexting".