If I Could Redesign the Light Rail

[ihop]

I seriously doubt 4 cycles.

That's nice, but it's obvious you haven't driven around there during peak times. Instead of posting that you doubt it, give it a try sometime.

[kylejack]

That's nice, but it's obvious you haven't driven around there during peak times. Instead of posting that you doubt it, give it a try sometime.

State a specific intersection and I'll be happy to prove you wrong with my video camera. I commute from downtown to the Medical Center every day. Are you referring, perhaps, to Main @ Richmond/Wheeler where it changes to Fannin?

Nevermind, I see you said Fannin @ Greenbriar takes you 4+ cycles to turn left. I will take a look.

[IronTiger]

Yeah. There's never any accidents involving the light rail. They don't call it the Wham-Bam-Tram for nothing.

[RedScare]

Yeah. There's never any accidents involving the light rail. They don't call it the Wham-Bam-Tram for nothing.

[JLWM8609]

That was in Houston??? But wait...I swore a date said "2003", and METRORail didn't launch until 2004, right?

The official launch of the light rail was January 1, 2004 with Mayor Lee Brown driving the train through the banner on what happened to be his last full day of office, but there were many trial runs along the track during late 2003.

[jfre81]

Anyone who is calling it a "nightmare" doesn't know how to drive, and needs to get off their damn cell phone and pay attention to the signage.

Driving down Main is actually easier now IMO because there's hardly any traffic anymore. To that end, rail succeeded.

[IronTiger]

Anyone who is calling it a "nightmare" doesn't know how to drive, and needs to get off their damn cell phone and pay attention to the signage.

Driving down Main is actually easier now IMO because there's hardly any traffic anymore. To that end, rail succeeded.

Methinks you didn't read my later posts.

[Fringe]

There are plenty of accidents involving motor vehicles as well. In fact, 43,000 people are killed in motor vehicle accidents yearly (versus 1 in the 5 1/2 year history of the Red Line). Does that make the automobile the stupidest thing ever?

I give up. Your talking apples and oranges now. Trying to convince a lawyer that something that causes multiple accidents and lawsuits is bad is like trying to convince an alchoholic there should not be a bar in his neighborhood.

[Houston19514]

I give up. Your talking apples and oranges now. Trying to convince a lawyer that something that causes multiple accidents and lawsuits is bad is like trying to convince an alchoholic there should not be a bar in his neighborhood.

[Fringe]

Still talking apples and oranges. First, I'm not talking about "banning" anything. You guys seem to think I'm for banning all trains in the world. All I'm saying is what the original thread alluded to. I think more thought should have gone into the light rail design. It's as simple as that. If you think it's perfect the way it is and the greatest thing since sliced bread than that's fine.

[Houston19514]

Still talking apples and oranges. First, I'm not talking about "banning" anything. You guys seem to think I'm for banning all trains in the world. All I'm saying is what the original thread alluded to. I think more thought should have gone into the light rail design. It's as simple as that. If you think it's perfect the way it is and the greatest thing since sliced bread than that's fine.

LOL Somehow I knew you'd be throwing out the apples and oranges trope. How is it apples and oranges?

And then you proceed right into strawman territory. I never said it was perfect or the greatest thing since sliced bread, and of course you know that.

[Fringe]

And I never said trains should be banned but everyone seems to think that I said that because I criticized it's location.

[Houston19514]

And I never said trains should be banned but everyone seems to think that I said that because I criticized it's location.

and I don't think I said you did. I guess you could infer that from my comparison to the introduction of cars to the city landscape. So to be perfectly clear, I guess I should continue the comparison. The comparable reaction to the introduction of cars would be not to ban them but to build wildly expensive elevated or underground highways for all of them.

[Fringe]

The comparable reaction to the introduction of cars would be not to ban them but to build wildly expensive elevated or underground highways for all of them.

Haven't we already been doing this with overpasses and underpasses? Plus elevated freeways?

[Houston19514]

Haven't we already been doing this with overpasses and underpasses? Plus elevated freeways?

You may have noticed that not all roadways are freeways or have overpasses and underpasses. Different roads serve different purposes. The same applied to rail systems. For those providing mid- to long-distance types of service, separation makes more sense. For those providing local service, not so much.

[Fringe]

Again, I'm not advocating every rail in America be elevated just like every roadway cannot possible be. But sometimes it's logical to do so. And I think a rail going through the middle of a busy downtown and medical center corridor should have been. Would be different if we were talking about a rail line going from say Katy to downtown, but we're not. Obviously other major cities have done this, why not Houston?

[jfre81]

Methinks you didn't read my later posts.

I was speaking generally more than anything.

There really isn't a problem with the ground level rail north of Hermann. I can't remember being stopped anywhere but a station from the Museum District onward to UH-D any time I've been on the rail. As for driving, just don't make illegal turns in front of the train. This isn't rocket science.

The whole TMC segment should've been elevated, but that would've costed more and I'm not sure that would've passed years ago. Remember, back then people claimed nobody would ride it.

[IronTiger]

I was speaking generally more than anything.

There really isn't a problem with the ground level rail north of Hermann. I can't remember being stopped anywhere but a station from the Museum District onward to UH-D any time I've been on the rail. As for driving, just don't make illegal turns in front of the train. This isn't rocket science.

The whole TMC segment should've been elevated, but that would've costed more and I'm not sure that would've passed years ago. Remember, back then people claimed nobody would ride it.

Hello, McFly, anyone home? Of course it would have cost more!

It may not have passed years ago, but this thread is about if they did make it elevated years ago. My cousin doesn't make illegal turns, but the fact you can't make turns is...frustrating. He'd never actually turn in front of a train.

[Houston19514]

Again, I'm not advocating every rail in America be elevated just like every roadway cannot possible be. But sometimes it's logical to do so. And I think a rail going through the middle of a busy downtown and medical center corridor should have been. Would be different if we were talking about a rail line going from say Katy to downtown, but we're not. Obviously other major cities have done this, why not Houston?

Again, I didn't say you were advocating every rail in America be elevated...

Can you give me examples of other major cities that have elevated their rail through areas similar to our downtown and medical center?

[Fringe]

Again, I didn't say you were advocating every rail in America be elevated...

Can you give me examples of other major cities that have elevated their rail through areas similar to our downtown and medical center?

Chicago for sure. New York went with underground which I admit wouldn't work in our flood prone area. I know there are others, just haven't been there. Can you tell me any other big cities that have a rail system like ours through their most densly populated areas?

[Houston19514]

Chicago for sure. New York went with underground which I admit wouldn't work in our flood prone area. I know there are others, just haven't been there. Can you tell me any other big cities that have a rail system like ours through their most densly populated areas?

[Fringe]

Okay, now show me those that have been built in either this century or the prior century.

Amsterdam jumps immediately to mind. Others with rail on the surface at least somewhat similar to ours, in part, in their most dense areas: Dallas, Seattle, San Francisco, Charlotte, Phoenix, San Diego, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, Portland, Minneapolis... want more?

LOL. Cable cars don't count.

[Houston19514]

LOL. Cable cars don't count.

[VicMan]

LOL. Cable cars don't count.

[Fringe]

Not sure why, but okay. Let's see, that takes San Francisco off the list. Leaving only 10 cities, and I'm pretty sure the list is incomplete. Any more to add to your long list of cities with elevated trains in their most dense areas? Or, for that matter, any at all that have been built in the last 100 years?

Most streets that have cable cars were originally built for that use.

[IronTiger]

b. Houston drivers (and pedestrians) are some of the most retarded in the world

This is why Austin doesn't have light rail.

LOL. Cable cars don't count.

That also eliminates Galveston (when they get it up and running again)

[Houston19514]

For the record, "most streets that have cable cars" (in fact I think it's safe to say that ALL streets that have cable cars) are in San Francisco. But, so what that those streets were originally built for that use? Houston's streets that have light rail were re-designed and re-built when the light rail was installed (and further re-designed to cure the accident problem, which has pretty much been cured, a fact that you continue to ignore.)

Perhaps it would be useful if, rather than just assuming that our rail is different from others in the world, you inquired or did some research. You don't have to be a world traveler to learn about other rail systems. There's this thing called the internet that has an almost inexhaustible supply of information.

And rather than continuing to pretend that it's 2004, get your facts updated regarding the accident record involving Houston's light rail.

Most streets that have cable cars were originally built for that use.

[Fringe]

I realize accidents have improved. I think it's because people have learned just to stay away more so than improvements. Still not better than an elevated train in my opinion and never will be. Researching other cities rail systems is not going to change my mind because I still wont know their traffic or unique situations and never will without actually living there.

Now as soon as you admit that I'm right and your wrong than we can move on to something else.

[RedScare]

I realize accidents have improved. I think it's because people have learned just to stay away more so than improvements. Still not better than an elevated train in my opinion and never will be. Researching other cities rail systems is not going to change my mind because I still wont know their traffic or unique situations and never will without actually living there.

Now as soon as you admit that I'm right and your wrong than we can move on to something else.

Right or wrong, your solutions are not getting funded in any city outside of Chicago, New York and DC. The FTA likes LRT and commuter rail, and for good reason. You get LOTS more bang for the buck. Look at Christof Spieler's list of FTA funded projects (May 9 post). Outside of the 3 cities I mentioned, only a couple of 1.7 mile or 1.2 mile extensions in San Francisco and Pittsburgh, costing $1.3 Billion and $530 million respectively, are on the funding list. New York is getting more money for a subway line that began construction in the 1960s, and Chicago is replacing an elevated line that lacks sufficient capacity. Only DC is actually expanding its system. No other heavy rail system is expanding. No elevated lines are being built, save for the occasional overpass. Houston is building what the FTA is funding. More importantly, rather than simply find an abandoned railroad that is available, Houston is building the tracks where people will actually USE them.

Granted, a few dozen people are stupid, and drove in front of the trains. One died. However, over 1,000 people die from train collisions every year. No one is suggesting that freight trains be banned just because people refuse to get out of their way. Life is dangerous. Open your eyes.

[IronTiger]

Houston is about nine years behind DART's rail, and yet, why do they expand every three years or so, and ours doesn't? You'd think METRORail would expand northwest to a certain abandoned rail line. Then those of the "Central" neighborhood can get light rail. In the suburbs, the light rail can parallel existing power line ROWs.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=29....mp;t=h&z=16

The reason it doesn't expand is the convoluted system downtown limits the light rail and prevents it from becoming viable.