you know, I used to enjoy HAIF

[Native Son]

I enjoy hearty political discourse, particularly with people I do not agree. But lately the political discussion on this board has become incredibly mean. It is no longer a discussion, but an excuse for baiting and name calling. Personally, I am going to take a break from HAIF and hope cooler heads prevail. I will miss the great pics, and historic threads, but I will not miss the blaming and name calling....if I want to see the citizens of Houston show their collectives asses publicly, I will read the comments after the articles on Chron.com....

much love

[JLWM8609]

Native Son,

I am a member of some forums where the political mudlsinging is so mean that it makes this forum look like child play. I just stay out of the off topic forum and keep to the others. Don't let that keep you away from the best Houston Architectural discussion online. But, I suppose we all need a break sometimes.

[Dan the Man]

Yeah, I don't read the political threads anymore either.

[Gary]

Wayne, I hope you read this, and decide to do something about it. I know that's a difficult thing for you to sort out, but some of the regulars have simply gotten out of hand with the bashing. I'll admit that in the past I've jumped into, and participated in a few bashing sessions, but I have stopped for some time now. It's gotten so bad that when I ask for a civil response, I get insults. It's really rediculous.

[Jax]

I've been contributing on some of those threads lately more than usual, and I hope I have been civil, but I know how you feel. I actually took a long break from HAIF a while back for the same reason. Specifically because one user singled me out and attacked me personally because of my political views. I wish this forum was dedicated only to architecture, but unfortunately I think it has gotten too big for that.

[Subdude]

When threads dissolve into personal bickering or insults report it! That is what the function is there for. At least the politics seem to be confined fairly well to the Politics subsection so they are easy to avoid. There are some people out there who want to drag their personal beliefs into everything, which is when we run the risk of descending to the level of Chronicle comments.

[Jeebus]

I enjoy hearty political discourse, particularly with people I do not agree. But lately the political discussion on this board has become incredibly mean. It is no longer a discussion, but an excuse for baiting and name calling. Personally, I am going to take a break from HAIF and hope cooler heads prevail. I will miss the great pics, and historic threads, but I will not miss the blaming and name calling....if I want to see the citizens of Houston show their collectives asses publicly, I will read the comments after the articles on Chron.com....

much love

I agree. Some regulars here seem to foaming at the bit for any chance to attack conservative views. Just look at the Asian name change thread. Instead of discussing a legitimate issue which was brought to our attention by a dumb statement, people there just went on the offensive and it was appalling.

[Jax]

we run the risk of descending to the level of Chronicle comments.

Chronicle comments are the worst... even worse than YouTube comments I think.

[VicMan]

Chronicle comments are the worst... even worse than YouTube comments I think.

Be sure to report bad Chron comments - Personal attack posts get deleted if they are reported.

[jb4647]

I agree. Some regulars here seem to foaming at the bit for any chance to attack conservative views. Just look at the Asian name change thread. Instead of discussing a legitimate issue which was brought to our attention by a dumb statement, people there just went on the offensive and it was appalling.

You're kidding me right? I think the level of discourse pretty much plumented with when the right-side of the aisle started throwing around the term "Socialist" with wild abanden when the world "Liberal" lost its bite.

Unfortunatley politics became a bloodsport quite some time ago and its only going to get worse now that the GOP has lost the White House as well as the Congress. I havn't seen this much anger from them since they lost in '92 and spent the next eight years working to deligitimize the President election all the way up to impeachment. Sort of like a cornered wild animal...very dangerous when they lose.

Foaming? I got three words for you: "Terrorist Fist Jab."

But now let's hold hands while we sing kumbuyya (as the GOP sticks a knife in our backs when we're not looking)

[RedScare]

Interesting that one of the posters on here complaining of incivility is the same one who has been making the veiled threats to assault me, the last one as recently as Friday. Not that I care. I put little stock in internet bullies, but the hypocrisy of someone threatening another poster, then whining on the complaint thread is staggering. And, none of this back and forth is as bad as it was during the election. I suppose since supporters of a certain party have had their way for so long, they do not know how to argue a point from the minority position. What would these posters propose? All moderate to liberal posters must applaud the conservative poster's intelligence prior to offering a rebuttal? Should all posters be required to agree that any policy proposal by a non-Republican is in fact socialist and/or fascist (never have figured out how you can be both socialist and fascist)?

The most interesting thing is that these so-called attacks on (apparently) conservative posters are rarely attacks on the poster at all. They are often responses to name calling by the very posters who are now complaining. It appears that some of the complainers are also demanding the right to make uninformed and unsupported statements without fear that someone will disagree with them. I suppose that this policy would let those who put little thought into their posts feel better, but we'd end up with a worthless collection of thoughtless posts...just like the Chron comment section.

I have a suggestion. Anyone willing to concede to me intellectual superiority need only make that concession known on this thread. I then promise never to argue with that person, as it would not be fair. I will always agree with that person's posts and opinions, and will even occasionally applaud their intelligence. But, in return they can never question my intellectual superiority. Wouldn't that make the forum a lot more civil?

[Gary]

I have a suggestion. Anyone willing to concede to me intellectual superiority need only make that concession known on this thread. I then promise never to argue with that person, as it would not be fair. I will always agree with that person's posts and opinions, and will even occasionally applaud their intelligence. But, in return they can never question my intellectual superiority. Wouldn't that make the forum a lot more civil?

Give me a break!

Interesting that one of the posters on here complaining of incivility is the same one who has been making the veiled threats to assault me, the last one as recently as Friday. Not that I care. I put little stock in internet bullies, but the hypocrisy of someone threatening another poster, then whining on the complaint thread is staggering. And, none of this back and forth is as bad as it was during the election. I suppose since supporters of a certain party have had their way for so long, they do not know how to argue a point from the minority position. What would these posters propose? All moderate to liberal posters must applaud the conservative poster's intelligence prior to offering a rebuttal? Should all posters be required to agree that any policy proposal by a non-Republican is in fact socialist and/or fascist (never have figured out how you can be both socialist and fascist)?

Red, I never threatened you, so please don't go there. It just so happens that your a very mean spirited guy (at least on HAIF) with a HUGE chip on your shoulder, and act as if you've got the answers to everything, and do that all from the safety of your computer. Did it ever occur to you that you get more flys from a drop of honey, than vinegar?

When I made my intial comment about the second ammendment I asked for civil responses, and you in turn insulted me. How am I supposed to react? I posed the comment as a concern, and was not in anybodies face, yet you feel the need with all of your superior intelligence to mock me. As I've mentioned before, I wonder if you'd talk the way you do face to face, and my bet is that YOU WOULD NOT.

Finally, I'm not the internet bully, you are, and many here that are not in your band of followers would agree. I for one am damn tired of it.

Edit: I still wonder how you rectify your signature with your attitude on this forum. Oh, and I'll wait for this personal insult to be deleted. Of course Red's always remain. Maybe that's because he's so much more intelligent than me and 99.9% of the forum posters.

[IronTiger]

Has anyone noticed how the topic on the allowing/disallowing teaching of evolutionism/creationism just devolved into an attack on Christianity?

Shame on all those involved.

[RedScare]

Give me a break!

Red, I never threatened you, so please don't go there. It just so happens that your a very mean spirited guy (at least on HAIF) with a HUGE chip on your shoulder, and act as if you've got the answers to everything, and do that all from the safety of your computer. Did it ever occur to you that you get more flys from a drop of honey, than vinegar?

When I made my intial comment about the second ammendment I asked for civil responses, and you in turn insulted me. How am I supposed to react? I posed the comment as a concern, and was not in anybodies face, yet you feel the need with all of your superior intelligence to mock me. As I've mentioned before, I wonder if you'd talk the way you do face to face, and my bet is that YOU WOULD NOT.

Finally, I'm not the internet bully, you are, and many here that are not in your band of followers would agree. I for one am damn tired of it.

Edit: I still wonder how you rectify your signature with your attitude on this forum. Oh, and I'll wait for this personal insult to be deleted. Of course Red's always remain. Maybe that's because he's so much more intelligent than me and 99.9% of the forum posters.

I'll let those who have actually met me comment on my in person persona. I note that those who actually debate me the fiercest on this forum rarely, if ever, take it personally. We throw our punches and return to our corner. It seems that only those who wish to post without debate are complaining. And, the reason my posts remain is that I attack the content of the post, not the poster. Those are the rules for posting. I try to stay within them. I don't dare posters to meet me outside. I will admit that I've been called out a couple of times, but not on the politics board. It is only because of one poster whose mindless drivel drives me nuts. I solved that problem by not reading his posts. Perhaps you should do the same. However, if you post, you will get responses, some of which disagree with you. You are not entitled to change the forum rules by demanding that no one disagree with you. I am sorry that you are so offended that my religious and political views do not match yours. However, I do not plan on changing them to placate you or others on the board. You are free to register your disdain for my views, which you do. Please do not forget that I am also free to comment as well.

[Trae]

I love HAIF drama. It's tasty.

[TheNiche]

I'm going to register a general complaint on that subject without naming names. These are the things that piss me off:

* Attacks on a person rather than my ideas.

* Attacking ideas because of the person that put them forth.

* Attacking ideas because of the political affiliation of the person who puts them forth.

* Attacks on George W. Bush or Republicans instead of the merit of an idea.

* Attacks on Barack Obama or Democrats instead of the merit of an idea.

* People who assume that anyone whose political beliefs differ from their own are incapable of reasonable, independent thought. Corrollary: people such as this who assume that media bias is responsible for warping the minds of people whose beliefs are different...but never their own.

* People who bait me for further explanation just because they know that I'll waste my time and give it to them, even if they've already seen it written before one or more times before and haven't even the slightest bit of an open mind.

* People who don't read the article that an OP links to before trying to add comments to a thread. Corrollaries: People who are too willing to make assumptions about the content of an article; people who are incapable of distinguishing between fact and opinion; people who do not question the information that they come by; people that are unwilling to give the benefit of the doubt when they have insufficient evidence to draw a reasonable conclusion.

[Native Son]

My very heart felt thanks to to those of you who's very comments solidified my point.

I am not questioning anyone's patriotism, or love of country. It is very possible to have two distinctly divergent points of view without being evil. The quality of your morality does not hinge on whether or not you agree with me in politics, religion or life. However, it would be really nice if we could be CIVIL, not ass kissy, just CIVIL toward each other.

[Fringe]

I have a suggestion. Anyone willing to concede to me intellectual superiority need only make that concession known on this thread. I then promise never to argue with that person, as it would not be fair. I will always agree with that person's posts and opinions, and will even occasionally applaud their intelligence. But, in return they can never question my intellectual superiority. Wouldn't that make the forum a lot more civil?

I'll concede your intellectual superiority as long as you agree that I'm always right.

[Jeebus]

You're kidding me right? I think the level of discourse pretty much plumented with when the right-side of the aisle started throwing around the term "Socialist" with wild abanden when the world "Liberal" lost its bite.

Unfortunatley politics became a bloodsport quite some time ago and its only going to get worse now that the GOP has lost the White House as well as the Congress. I havn't seen this much anger from them since they lost in '92 and spent the next eight years working to deligitimize the President election all the way up to impeachment. Sort of like a cornered wild animal...very dangerous when they lose.

Foaming? I got three words for you: "Terrorist Fist Jab."

But now let's hold hands while we sing kumbuyya (as the GOP sticks a knife in our backs when we're not looking)

Just look at your post. Even in a thread not about politics you go on the offensive. For Christ's sake, just stop.

[RedScare]

I'll concede your intellectual superiority as long as you agree that I'm always right.

Throw in a Starbucks Gift Card and you got yourself a deal.

[UrbaNerd]

The main thing I find offensive is the typo in the title of this thread.

[jb4647]

Just look at your post. Even in a thread not about politics you go on the offensive. For Christ's sake, just stop.

Now that your side got it's butt kicked in the last two elections it's time for peace, love, and togetherness? Nope. It's time our side grew a pair and fought back.

Tell you what, you get Glenn Beck to stop fermenting insurrection in this country and I'll see what we can do.

[TJones]

Throw in a Starbucks Gift Card and you got yourself a deal.

He shouldn't have to do that, you already said that whoever kowtowed to you, that you would always agree with. Just like a lawyer, always trying to change the deal at the last minute.

Now that your side got it's butt kicked in the last two elections it's time for peace, love, and togetherness? Nope. It's time our side grew a pair and fought back.

Tell you what, you get Glenn Beck to stop fermenting insurrection in this country and I'll see what we can do.

Most laughable post of this thread. "Fight back" against that evil capitalist conservative regime and let's get that socialist machine churning, go Obama ? Sure, see you in the toilet paper line, comrade.

I still enjoy the HAIF. Is it just not possible for you to turn away from obviously political threads for some reason ?

[IronTiger]

Now that your side got it's butt kicked in the last two elections it's time for peace, love, and togetherness? Nope. It's time our side grew a pair and fought back.

Tell you what, you get Glenn Beck to stop fermenting insurrection in this country and I'll see what we can do.

Sadly, your post is full of bitter irony. After Obama was elected, it seemed all the bitter Bush-hating celebrities all got into the "let's love America" phase. And I would say the "left" (note that I didn't say Democrats) has been fighting all this time, ever since Day One. The HAIF is not full of jerks (though there are some besides JB) because some forums won't even do this.

[Jeebus]

Now that your side got it's butt kicked in the last two elections it's time for peace, love, and togetherness? Nope. It's time our side grew a pair and fought back.

Tell you what, you get Glenn Beck to stop fermenting insurrection in this country and I'll see what we can do.

Dude, seriously, this is what the problem is. You're STILL going about politics.

[barracuda]

I enjoy hearty political discourse, particularly with people I do not agree. But lately the political discussion on this board has become incredibly mean. It is no longer a discussion, but an excuse for baiting and name calling. Personally, I am going to take a break from HAIF and hope cooler heads prevail. I will miss the great pics, and historic threads, but I will not miss the blaming and name calling....if I want to see the citizens of Houston show their collectives asses publicly, I will read the comments after the articles on Chron.com....

much love

I know what you mean, although I've been staying away from most of the political threads due to being really busy, not because I don't find them entertaining.

I have noticed a certain desperation in some members when it comes to political threads, which drives them into making personal insults (like the member who called me a "bigger fool than I though you were" just because I disagreed with his position). I've tried to steer away from any personal insults, and I sure hope I didn't offend anyone personally.

I think much of the behavior you complain of simply represents the sad state of political discourse most Americans experience. I think some of that has to do with the 24-hour cable news network talking heads and the hypocritical political commentators on talk radio. They've lowered the expectations of rational political discourse in this country to the point that opposing sides feel they can't even be friends afterwards.

[ricco67]

I think much of the behavior you complain of simply represents the sad state of political discourse most Americans experience. I think some of that has to do with the 24-hour cable news network talking heads and the hypocritical political commentators on talk radio. They've lowered the expectations of rational political discourse in this country to the point that opposing sides feel they can't even be friends afterwards.

I agree.

The main issue that few people want to have a proper discussion anymore. It just seems that one side is always wrong and the other side is always right.

The "discussions" here always have been a bit on the heated side, but it was generally good fun.

Previously, I went in and mixed it up a bit with the rest of them, but it got rather tiring. After awhile, I merely put in my two cents, and if someone touched upon something I agreed with, I merely let them carry the argument and sat back while that person was generally mauled upon.

Lately, the discussions have gotten even more uncivil on both sides with people accusing the other of being the following in their politial views:

Conservatives on here are blasted as war mongering, anti abortion, NRA carrying nut jobs.

Every liberal are people who wish to surrender the USA to the Islamic radical put up an Abortion clinic on every street corner, and take away every gun they could get their hand on.

Neither case is true. We are no more of a stereotype of our own political views than the racial stereotypes that quite a number of us impose on one another.

Quite honestly, I don't blame just Limbaugh and Hannity, but I also Blame Garafalo and Franken for being just as hateful and close minded in their views and basically brainwashing their listeners into believing it's all or nothing.

[Vertigo58]

When threads dissolve into personal bickering or insults report it! That is what the function is there for.

This does no good. Editor (or whomever owns this forum) lets the same one's continue year after year. Yes, years.

I nearly died laughing when a new Haifer suggested these 2-3 jerks go to argue.com, etc. That was a riot!

Of course it did no good they are STILL HERE. Even more pathetic is how they disquise under assume another name....childish then continue with same bitter traits of .....drum roll.....Trolling!

As another intelligent Haifer noted, its too bad this forum doesnt stick to architecture. The forum has lost so many newcomers/contributors due to the embarassing few on here. Many of these not only had great resources of info but great historical pics and so on but said to hell with this crap and split. See Haif looses.

[Fringe]

Some people here defiantly take their party affiliation way to serious. I try to stay in the middle. Even though I admit to leaning toward the conservative Republican side, I hate Limbaugh and Hannity, I'm pro choice, and despite having an arsenal at home, I am for gun control. I'll be the first to admit the Republican party has lost focus and seems to be run by a bunch of religious zealots that let their religious beliefs cloud their sensible judgement. At the same time the Democrat party seemed to have turn into a bunch of lazy pussified whiners that blame all their problems on Bush and Republicans. Both parties need to get over themselves and focus on what's best for our country. In the meantime I guess I will continue to ridicule anyone that takes themselves to serious.

Because that's what I do.

[Pumapayam]

This does no good. Editor (or whomever owns this forum) lets the same one's continue year after year. Yes, years.

I nearly died laughing when a new Haifer suggested these 2-3 jerks go to argue.com, etc. That was a riot!

Of course it did no good they are STILL HERE. Even more pathetic is how they disquise under assume another name....childish then continue with same bitter traits of .....drum roll.....Trolling!

As another intelligent Haifer noted, its too bad this forum doesnt stick to architecture. The forum has lost so many newcomers/contributors due to the embarassing few on here. Many of these not only had great resources of info but great historical pics and so on but said to hell with this crap and split. See Haif looses.

No, thread will get locked or deleted and members do get banned.

Marty, 77019, Plastic. . . .

They are on top of it.