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Houston second in population growth for 2008


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Street widening is a short term solution. Eventually these residents will have to face the fact that people will have to park their cars somewhere. If the "free market" is capable of solving problems it should be able to solve this one pretty easily, without relying on government $.

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Because people still drive cars, and that road is horrible to drive on... it too narrow, and not only is the street full of potholes, but the sidewalk is bumpy too.

I drive a car, but I don't drive on Westheimer. Keeping it small and bumpy discourages car traffic, which seems like a good solution to me.

Eventually, something must be done to adress both issues. I'm saying to turn it into a 1960, hell you could even keep it at 4 lanes with no turning lane. But the current lanes need to be wider, and the side walks need to be wider. This stretch is too busy to be kept at its current suburban layout.

No, we don't have to address both issues. We could decide to make it a pedestrian zone. Park someplace else and walk. There's no law that says people have to be able to drive everywhere on wide, smooth streets.

You can have both. And as mentioned before, the residents must find it annoying to have their streets stuffed with cars.

If you widen Westheimer, you have to tear down a lot of businesses. If you tear down those businesses, there's no point in widening Westheimer, since there are faster ways to get through that area.

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Exactly. Widening roads is all Houston has ever done to address increasing traffic, which has resulted in roads like the above too wide to cross on foot safely (I know from experience). Houston needs to focus on public transportation in the core, not wider roads. It would completely change the character of these neighborhoods and make them even less pedestrian-friendly and more auto-oriented than they already are. There are enough areas in Houston with wide roads and mammoth freeways... we don't need them in the core.

It's a catch-22. If you can't accommodate increased accessibility to a neighborhood, not enough people can get there to justify the kind of critical mass that supports the density to justify pedestrian use or transit in the very first place. So you have to serve cars first, and that's a given. The real world isn't at all like Sim City. There's more than one way to skin a cat, though, and I'm not sure that widening Westheimer is the optimal solution.

As a solution for the parking problem, I'd suggest parking garages, either sponsored by the City of Houston, by a special district, or by a consortium of businesses that validate parking there. This could be a way to get around parking ordinances for some kinds of new development, as well. Or perhaps the City could provide tax incentives or matching funds; clearly these are something that would encourage development and increase the tax base after all.

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LOL, we need to start a HAIF drinking game. Every time Niche says "The real world isn't like Sim City", we should all take a shot.

;)

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DFW will always be ahead of Houston in MSA population. I don't see it changing. We might can close the gap a little, but I doubt it.

Yeah, our best bet for passing them would be if the Census decided to split their MSA in two, just like they did for San Francisco vs. San Jose. They're 49 miles apart vs. 33 miles for Dallas and FW. Possible, but not likely.

On the other hand, setting aside MSAs, we're solidly the 4th largest city in the country, with little risk of being displaced.

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So Dallas grew by 146,000 and we grew by 130,000. I guess if we can't outgrow them with a spike in oil prices we never will outgrow them. I don't suppose people returning to New Orleans from Katrina could still be a factor?

Dallas & Fort Worth are the largest metro in Texas. 4th in the U.S. I believe. So Dallas & Fort Worth grew by 146,000. While Houston's metro is only what, 8th or something?

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Yeah, our best bet for passing them would be if the Census decided to split their MSA in two, just like they did for San Francisco vs. San Jose. They're 49 miles apart vs. 33 miles for Dallas and FW. Possible, but not likely.

On the other hand, setting aside MSAs, we're solidly the 4th largest city in the country, with little risk of being displaced.

Baltimore and Washington D.C. are only 35 miles away from one another, share a major airport, have crossed commuter patterns, and together would have a population of 8 million, yet they are treated as different metro areas.

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Dallas & Fort Worth are the largest metro in Texas. 4th in the U.S. I believe. So Dallas & Fort Worth grew by 146,000. While Houston's metro is only what, 8th or something?

6th behind Philly, but only because the Census added counties to Philly's metro area a year or so ago. We'll surpass them very soon, if we haven't already, and that makes us 5th in the nation right behind Dallas/FW.

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What bothers me is that in the long run, Houston will likely have to fight harder and harder just to keep up with the likes of Dallas and Atlanta. We are heavily dependent on one industry and that industry seems destined to be a much weaker foundation for our economy than it was in the late twentieth century, with the increasing willingness of the public to punish carbon and with the diffusion of talent around the world (the fact that we are still the nexus of energy know-how is a relic of our giant mid-twentieth century lead over the rest of the world in education and industry; we no longer have that lead and thus we cannot expect to remain for long the place that everyone turns to for expertise).

We are barely keeping up with Dallas and Atlanta in the midst of an oil boom; what happens if there is a bust? I can't think of any major industry where a bust could greatly hurt either of those two cities but if there is a bust (or gradual long-term decline) in the energy industry, Houston is in trouble. Atlanta has positioned itself as the corporate capital of the Southeast just as Chicago is for the Midwest, the city where big companies cluster, slowly sucking everything from other cities. Dallas seems to be doing this for the South Central region: if you take away energy, what corporate relocations has Houston been able to attract in the last few years? What has Dallas attracted?

If the domestic energy industry slowly dies (as every other heavy industry in America seems to be dying) and Dallas consolidates its position as regional capital, Houston could end up seeing the fate of other industrial cities that were not the capital of their region: Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. I'm hoping one of you can convince me that I'm wrong.

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What bothers me is that in the long run, Houston will likely have to fight harder and harder just to keep up with the likes of Dallas and Atlanta. We are heavily dependent on one industry and that industry seems destined to be a much weaker foundation for our economy than it was in the late twentieth century, with the increasing willingness of the public to punish carbon and with the diffusion of talent around the world (the fact that we are still the nexus of energy know-how is a relic of our giant mid-twentieth century lead over the rest of the world in education and industry; we no longer have that lead and thus we cannot expect to remain for long the place that everyone turns to for expertise).

We are barely keeping up with Dallas and Atlanta in the midst of an oil boom; what happens if there is a bust? I can't think of any major industry where a bust could greatly hurt either of those two cities but if there is a bust (or gradual long-term decline) in the energy industry, Houston is in trouble. Atlanta has positioned itself as the corporate capital of the Southeast just as Chicago is for the Midwest, the city where big companies cluster, slowly sucking everything from other cities. Dallas seems to be doing this for the South Central region: if you take away energy, what corporate relocations has Houston been able to attract in the last few years? What has Dallas attracted?

If the domestic energy industry slowly dies (as every other heavy industry in America seems to be dying) and Dallas consolidates its position as regional capital, Houston could end up seeing the fate of other industrial cities that were not the capital of their region: Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. I'm hoping one of you can convince me that I'm wrong.

A decline of the energy industry would be offset by economic diversification, just like occurred during the 1990's. We are a large coastal port city with a nice climate and very little influence from labor unions. For now, we aren't in danger of going the way of the rust belt cities. Growth would be much slower, more similar I think to San Antonio in character.

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What bothers me is that in the long run, Houston will likely have to fight harder and harder just to keep up with the likes of Dallas and Atlanta. We are heavily dependent on one industry and that industry seems destined to be a much weaker foundation for our economy than it was in the late twentieth century, with the increasing willingness of the public to punish carbon and with the diffusion of talent around the world (the fact that we are still the nexus of energy know-how is a relic of our giant mid-twentieth century lead over the rest of the world in education and industry; we no longer have that lead and thus we cannot expect to remain for long the place that everyone turns to for expertise).

We are barely keeping up with Dallas and Atlanta in the midst of an oil boom; what happens if there is a bust? I can't think of any major industry where a bust could greatly hurt either of those two cities but if there is a bust (or gradual long-term decline) in the energy industry, Houston is in trouble. Atlanta has positioned itself as the corporate capital of the Southeast just as Chicago is for the Midwest, the city where big companies cluster, slowly sucking everything from other cities. Dallas seems to be doing this for the South Central region: if you take away energy, what corporate relocations has Houston been able to attract in the last few years? What has Dallas attracted?

If the domestic energy industry slowly dies (as every other heavy industry in America seems to be dying) and Dallas consolidates its position as regional capital, Houston could end up seeing the fate of other industrial cities that were not the capital of their region: Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. I'm hoping one of you can convince me that I'm wrong.

Not a single fact to back up this woe is me post. Why should anyone convince you that you are wrong when you haven't convinced anyone to even suspect that you are right? This post might have carried a tiny bit of weight a year ago, but the recession has hit Atlanta's consumer based corporations in the head with a 2x4. Show us some stats that say Houston is losing ground, and we might look into it. A Census estimate that Houston is 2nd in population growth isn't making anyone break out the razor blades yet.

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A decline of the energy industry would be offset by economic diversification, just like occurred during the 1990's. We are a large coastal port city with a nice climate and very little influence from labor unions. For now, we aren't in danger of going the way of the rust belt cities. Growth would be much slower, more similar I think to San Antonio in character.

Yeah, I can see the San Antonio comparison. I guess the main problem I see is in our ability to attract corporations unrelated to energy. In recent years Dallas has brought in AT&T and Comerica, as well as smaller companies like Brach's - all companies that didn't have to be in a particular place, but chose Dallas because of its high profile as a corporate center. It seems that in most regions, in the long run, a certain city tends to become preeminent and the other cities become subordinate. As long as the energy industry stays strong we're fine, but I worry that it will shrink here over time.

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Yeah, I can see the San Antonio comparison. I guess the main problem I see is in our ability to attract corporations unrelated to energy. In recent years Dallas has brought in AT&T and Comerica, as well as smaller companies like Brach's - all companies that didn't have to be in a particular place, but chose Dallas because of its high profile as a corporate center. It seems that in most regions, in the long run, a certain city tends to become preeminent and the other cities become subordinate. As long as the energy industry stays strong we're fine, but I worry that it will shrink here over time.

So, which is better, to have a high profile as a corporate center, or to actually HAVE more corporate headquarters in your corporate center? Seems to me that image is more important to you than substance, since Houston actually is home to more Fortune 500 headquarters than Dallas, but Dallas claims to be "high profile". And, those "high profile" relocations you mentioned brought fewer than 1,000 jobs to Dallas. You might check who created more jobs than any city in the country the last few years before you plant a tombstone in downtown Houston.

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What bothers me is that in the long run, Houston will likely have to fight harder and harder just to keep up with the likes of Dallas and Atlanta. We are heavily dependent on one industry and that industry seems destined to be a much weaker foundation for our economy than it was in the late twentieth century, with the increasing willingness of the public to punish carbon and with the diffusion of talent around the world (the fact that we are still the nexus of energy know-how is a relic of our giant mid-twentieth century lead over the rest of the world in education and industry; we no longer have that lead and thus we cannot expect to remain for long the place that everyone turns to for expertise).

We are barely keeping up with Dallas and Atlanta in the midst of an oil boom; what happens if there is a bust? I can't think of any major industry where a bust could greatly hurt either of those two cities but if there is a bust (or gradual long-term decline) in the energy industry, Houston is in trouble. Atlanta has positioned itself as the corporate capital of the Southeast just as Chicago is for the Midwest, the city where big companies cluster, slowly sucking everything from other cities. Dallas seems to be doing this for the South Central region: if you take away energy, what corporate relocations has Houston been able to attract in the last few years? What has Dallas attracted?

If the domestic energy industry slowly dies (as every other heavy industry in America seems to be dying) and Dallas consolidates its position as regional capital, Houston could end up seeing the fate of other industrial cities that were not the capital of their region: Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. I'm hoping one of you can convince me that I'm wrong.

Do you not know what's going on in the world? Oil dropped to $45, and now it's rising about $50. That's no boom.

And Houston is a regional capital. We have a port. Does Atlanta or Dallas? That alone will help us "in the long run". And FYI, energy companies don't only deal in Oil.

Yeah, I can see the San Antonio comparison. I guess the main problem I see is in our ability to attract corporations unrelated to energy. In recent years Dallas has brought in AT&T and Comerica, as well as smaller companies like Brach's - all companies that didn't have to be in a particular place, but chose Dallas because of its high profile as a corporate center. It seems that in most regions, in the long run, a certain city tends to become preeminent and the other cities become subordinate. As long as the energy industry stays strong we're fine, but I worry that it will shrink here over time.

Why? We are the Energy Capital for a reason, and unless the world decides to go hippie and live in the forest, we'll always need some form of Energy.

Don't be so gloomy.

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What bothers me is that in the long run, Houston will likely have to fight harder and harder just to keep up with the likes of Dallas and Atlanta. We are heavily dependent on one industry and that industry seems destined to be a much weaker foundation for our economy than it was in the late twentieth century, with the increasing willingness of the public to punish carbon and with the diffusion of talent around the world (the fact that we are still the nexus of energy know-how is a relic of our giant mid-twentieth century lead over the rest of the world in education and industry; we no longer have that lead and thus we cannot expect to remain for long the place that everyone turns to for expertise).

We are barely keeping up with Dallas and Atlanta in the midst of an oil boom; what happens if there is a bust? I can't think of any major industry where a bust could greatly hurt either of those two cities but if there is a bust (or gradual long-term decline) in the energy industry, Houston is in trouble. Atlanta has positioned itself as the corporate capital of the Southeast just as Chicago is for the Midwest, the city where big companies cluster, slowly sucking everything from other cities. Dallas seems to be doing this for the South Central region: if you take away energy, what corporate relocations has Houston been able to attract in the last few years? What has Dallas attracted?

If the domestic energy industry slowly dies (as every other heavy industry in America seems to be dying) and Dallas consolidates its position as regional capital, Houston could end up seeing the fate of other industrial cities that were not the capital of their region: Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. I'm hoping one of you can convince me that I'm wrong.

I see your concerns, but you have to understand Houston is the ENERGY Capital not just about Oil. We will always need energy. What a lot of people don't realize is that Houston is more than just oil. Oil is a big part of it, but the area is changing and oil will become of less importance to Houston's economy as it continues to diversify. I am very confident in Houston's future. Its in the sunbelt where everybody wants to live. I just saw on World News tonight a table full of people that just moved to Houston got jobs and are excited about their future in the city. One man and his wife just moved down from Detroit and said they call friends up there and its well below freezing while in Houston its in the comfortable 60s+.

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We are the Energy Capital for a reason, and unless the world decides to go hippie and live in the forest, we'll always need some form of Energy.

Don't be so gloomy.

There was a time when railroad companies placed a critical importance upon revenues from shipping crude oil; then oil pipelines and they lost out in a big way. Technology passed them by.

There is nothing to keep the same thing from happening to oil and gas in some plausible and possibly near future. Nor is there any especially compelling reason to believe that either oil companies will lead the transition to alternate technologies or that their research and production efforts would be based in Houston.

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Houston has so many Fortune 500 corporations that call it home, but most are oil related. I do not doubt Houston can get non-oil related companies, but will we go and get them? Being an energy strong economy is not bad it is when oil is no longer the main source of energy, and the only energy you produce is oil is when it gets bad. When oil is no longer the main soure of energy then what is Houston going to do? Out of our top 10 Fortune 500 Companies in Houston only three are non-oil related. How diversefied is Houston in the Energy sector is the main question because as humans we are going to need energy, but it will not always be oil. I just don't think our energy sector is diversifed like some say. When oil is making porfits like never before, I just don't see why ConocoPhilips and Exxon are going to diversife itself. Oil is the king of energy and when the world is going to need more oil then it ever did before in the coming years, why would would they leave their cash crop to see what wind energy is going to do?

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C'mon. 50% of HAIF is based on doom and gloom. Consider it part of the charm. Imagine what this place would've been like back in 1985.

"WAAAAAH! We're turning into Detroit!"

So it goes.

Yeah, but this may be a HAIF record for "doom and gloom" posting.

http://www.siteselection.com/issues/2009/mar/Top-Metros/

Big Oil has long been the big money maker in Houston, but the largest city in Texas lured capital from many other industries in 2008, enough to capture the No. 1 metropolitan area ranking for corporate facility projects from Site Selection.

With 179 corporate real estate deals last year, the 5.7-million-resident Houston area unseated three-year incumbent Chicago to take home the coveted honor. Texas' second largest market, Dallas-Fort Worth, finished No. 2 with 156 projects, while Chicago came in third with 138.

"The dominant economic development story of the year was Houston's dramatic success in job creation," says Jeff Moseley, president and CEO of the Greater Houston Partnership. "From November 2007 to November 2008, Houston was the number one job creator in the entire U.S., according to the BLS [bureau of Labor Statistics]."

Houston's 2008 performance is even more remarkable considering that, in 2007, the city ranked fourth among all large U.S. metros, trailing Chicago, Cincinnati and St. Louis.

The doom and gloom that the world is passing us by occurred AFTER we led the country in job creation, came in 2nd in population growth, and led the country corporate real estate deals last year. Hell, Atlanta isn't even on that list. Shouldn't you at least wait until we fall out of 1st place before you worry that "Houston will likely have to fight harder and harder just to keep up with the likes of Dallas and Atlanta"? Isn't this a bit like UNC fans worrying right after they win the NCAAs that "Duke might win next year"?

Enjoy the spoils of success for an hour or two, will ya?

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Houston has so many Fortune 500 corporations that call it home, but most are oil related. I do not doubt Houston can get non-oil related companies, but will we go and get them? Being an energy strong economy is not bad it is when oil is no longer the main source of energy, and the only energy you produce is oil is when it gets bad. When oil is no longer the main soure of energy then what is Houston going to do? Out of our top 10 Fortune 500 Companies in Houston only three are non-oil related. How diversefied is Houston in the Energy sector is the main question because as humans we are going to need energy, but it will not always be oil. I just don't think our energy sector is diversifed like some say. When oil is making porfits like never before, I just don't see why ConocoPhilips and Exxon are going to diversife itself. Oil is the king of energy and when the world is going to need more oil then it ever did before in the coming years, why would would they leave their cash crop to see what wind energy is going to do?

Oh you bet they will diversify. They are planning it right now. No doubt they will ride oil as long as they can, but when the time is right they'll make whatever changes they need to, if they're being run by smart people. We're a couple decades out from this I think, but we'll see it in my lifetime.

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Houston has energy, health care, NASA, the port, a top-tier private research university (and hopefully a Tier 1 public one soon), a stronger downtown, and far more international flights, culture, and business. Dallas has more diversified companies, more tech, more domestic flights and companies, and no hurricanes (but also a bit of a water supply problem). Atlanta has some good universities and the world's best geographical location for logistics and flights, including the world's busiest airport (and also no hurricanes but a water supply problem). I think we'll all do just fine in our different niches, just as DC, NYC, and Boston do in the east, and San Diego, LA, and SF do in the west.

The oil companies have a responsibility to their shareholders not to die with any particular technology. They will aggressively get into whatever's next, and most already have, with the exception of Exxon.

I've also had a remarkable number of young college graduates tell me lately that Houston is a hotter destination for young talent than Dallas right now, with our more diverse, international, eclectic vibe/culture, including the restaurant scene.

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Houston has energy, health care, NASA, the port, a top-tier private research university (and hopefully a Tier 1 public one soon), a stronger downtown, and far more international flights, culture, and business. Dallas has more diversified companies, more tech, more domestic flights and companies, and no hurricanes (but also a bit of a water supply problem). Atlanta has some good universities and the world's best geographical location for logistics and flights, including the world's busiest airport (and also no hurricanes but a water supply problem). I think we'll all do just fine in our different niches, just as DC, NYC, and Boston do in the east, and San Diego, LA, and SF do in the west.

The oil companies have a responsibility to their shareholders not to die with any particular technology. They will aggressively get into whatever's next, and most already have, with the exception of Exxon.

I've also had a remarkable number of young college graduates tell me lately that Houston is a hotter destination for young talent than Dallas right now, with our more diverse, international, eclectic vibe/culture, including the restaurant scene.

As a recent college grad, I can kind of attest to this. I wouldn't necessarily call Houston a hotter destination, but it seems like most of the people that graduated with good jobs ended up in Houston. People that really wanted to go to Dallas or ended up there were mainly girls and only a few actually had a solid job lined up. This means absolutely nothing about either city and which one is a better destination - it's just my observation. I am a native Houstonian who has plenty of time in Dallas and I love that city, too. The only thing that bothers me about my observation is that I am a single male, and I wish Houston would win over those females.

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It's funny... I had just got back from going to the grocery store to buy razor blades, because I am so deep in "doom and gloom" over Houston's future, when I turn on this forum to find all these great posts debating the concerns I brought up, and voila! I want to live again! Thank you HAIF! :D

But you still haven't convinced me. I did a tour of Detroit recently and was amazed to see the robust buildings and monuments from fifty years ago when it was the fourth largest city in America, had some of the largest (including THE largest) corporations in the world, and was a magnet for international culture with vibrant immigrant communities. It also had a university in its suburbs that, even today, is more important in the academic world than any Texas university. Fifty years later it is in ruins, largely because it was too dependent on one industry and couldn't stay afloat as that industry went down.

Here are the local companies that made the 2008 Fortune 500 list. Tell me how many you see that don't involve fossil fuels:

FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES HEADQUARTERED IN HOUSTON 2008

Company/Rank

Revenues

($000,000)

ConocoPhillips (5)

$178,558.0

Marathon Oil (36)

60,044.0

Sysco (70)

35,042.1

Enterprise GP Holdings (90)

26,713.8

Plains All American Pipeline

(121)

20,394.0

Anadarko (159)

15,916.0

Halliburton (167)

15,264.0

Continental Airlines (178)

14,232.0

Waste Management (199)

13,310.0

Knight (230)

11,505.7

Reliant Energy (237)

11,208.7

Baker Hughes (252)

10,428.2

Apache (262)

9,977.9

National Oilwell Varco (268)

$9,789.0

Centerpoint Energy (271)

9,623.0

KBR (284)

9,194.0

Smith International (302)

8,764.3

Enbridge Energy Partners (343)

7,282.6

Targa Resources (344)

7,269.7

Group 1 Automotive (379)

6,393.0

Frontier Oil (462)

5,188.7

BJ Services (482)

4,802.4

El Paso (486)

4,749.0

Spectra Energy (487)

4,742.0

Cameron International (490)

4,666.4

FMC Technologies (498)

4,638.

I see a food services company, a legacy airline, a garbage company, and a group of auto dealerships. I don't see a SINGLE non-energy corporate relocation from the past two decades. Now you may think that these energy companies will be strong forever and that we'll be just fine, but with progressive administrations promising to tax the carbon industry, with the steady drift of heavy industry of all types away from America, with the fact that hardly any of the world's major oil reserves exist in America anymore (our oil industry was formed when most of them did) and the rest of the globe is catching up with us in talent and expertise, I am not so optimistic.

Bottom line: We need to diversify, and right now when times are still good is our best opportunity to do so.

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So, your gripe on Houston is that we don't have enough non-energy Fortune 500 companies? But, your argument that Dallas is "beating" us is a BANK that isn't even listed in the Fortune 500 at all? That makes sense. :mellow:

And, while we're at it, can you explain to me why I should despair that Houston is full of reasonably healthy and profitable energy companies and not enough zombie BANKS? Am I missing something here? Are you jealous of Dallas and Atlanta because they've been hit harder by the financial collapse than we have? Do you miss the 80s? To use an internet term, WTF! :o

I'll take the possibility that oil may someday die over banking that already died any day.

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But you still haven't convinced me. I did a tour of Detroit recently and was amazed to see the robust buildings and monuments from fifty years ago when it was the fourth largest city in America, had some of the largest (including THE largest) corporations in the world, and was a magnet for international culture with vibrant immigrant communities. It also had a university in its suburbs that, even today, is more important in the academic world than any Texas university. Fifty years later it is in ruins, largely because it was too dependent on one industry and couldn't stay afloat as that industry went down.

Now you may think that these energy companies will be strong forever and that we'll be just fine, but with progressive administrations promising to tax the carbon industry, with the steady drift of heavy industry of all types away from America, with the fact that hardly any of the world's major oil reserves exist in America anymore (our oil industry was formed when most of them did) and the rest of the globe is catching up with us in talent and expertise, I am not so optimistic.

Bottom line: We need to diversify, and right now when times are still good is our best opportunity to do so.

We have diversified and we continue to do so. Do you work for an energy company? Do you know anyone who works for one? Any of them at the executive level?

If the anwser is no, then you cannot justify what you have said.

No one can predict the future, but Houston's looks pretty bright. And if you disagree well observe Atlanta & Dallas whoop us in population, jobs, education, importance, whatever... We're doing damn fine, and if you cover your eyes and ears saying "laa laa laaa, I can't hear you" then we can't help you.

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