Houston-Galveston passenger rail moves forward

[editor]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...an/6162566.html

$850k is going to be spent on yet another study of rail between Houston and Galveston. Depending on what this latest report finds, work could begin on reviving the rail link in 2009. The trains would go 79 MPH.

From the Chronicle article:

A 14-month study completed by Goodman Corp. last year said the rail line is economical, will reduce air pollution, ease traffic congestion and provide a hurricane evacuation method.

[Dan the Man]

So, it may be possible one day to live in Galveston and commute via rail to dowtown Houston? Interesting...

[lockmat]

Goodman Corp.'s website:

http://www.thegoodmancorp.com/

[Geoff8201]

Personally I'm rooting for this project...

It's great when its a sunny warm weekend day, perfect beach weather... so you hop in the car, expecting a nice 40-50 minute trip down to Galveston Island... only to find you're stuck in traffic for 3 hours and can't find a single place to park once you do get there. Then after a long day, have to fight traffic again just to get home.

The rail project seems like a winner as long as there are plenty of well located Stations with park and rides, and a minimal number of stops along the way. Also the cost being split between Houston and Galveston would cut down the cost as opposed to only Houston, or only Galveston paying for it. Any word on where upwards of $415 million is coming from?

Like I said the number of stops needs to be minimal, so they can keep up the speed and make a very fast trip, but I can see potential in there being a Webster (NASA), or Leauge City Station... and would make sense to have a Hobby Airport station perhaps?... maybe? maybe not?

[editor]

Like I said the number of stops needs to be minimal, so they can keep up the speed and make a very fast trip, but I can see potential in there being a Webster (NASA), or Leauge City Station... and would make sense to have a Hobby Airport station perhaps?... maybe? maybe not?

That would be useful for tourism. Fly into Hobby and take a train down to Galveston or up to Houston. But I suspect the rails they're planning to use are a fair distance from the airport.

[RedScare]

That would be useful for tourism. Fly into Hobby and take a train down to Galveston or up to Houston. But I suspect the rails they're planning to use are a fair distance from the airport.

Actually, it would pass less than 3 miles from Hobby. Initially, they could run a shuttle to it. At some point, the LRT could run to Hobby and continue on to the commuter station, giving an all rail link.

[barracuda]

That would be useful for tourism. Fly into Hobby and take a train down to Galveston or up to Houston. But I suspect the rails they're planning to use are a fair distance from the airport.

I also wonder if the Galveston trolley system would suffice or need to be enlarged with more pedestrian tourists on the island. http://www.islandtransit.net/TrolleyMapCro...6-3-08%20sm.pdf.

[totheskies]

Considering our (Galveston's) current status from IKE, this commuter rail is needed now more than ever. Beyond the obvious tourism benefits, this will give islanders a way to get to the mainland for employment. So many people lost not only their homes or their jobs from the hurricane, but also their cars. If I were the Obama administration, I'd try to have this thing up and running in record time.

[Daniepwils]

If I were the Obama administration, I'd try to have this thing up and running in record time.

Huh? Why is that?

[tanith27]

$850k is going to be spent on yet another study of rail between Houston and Galveston.

I'll take the $850K. In exchange they can have my word that its a good thing.

[Trae]

Huh? Why is that?

Didn't he just give his reasons?

[Daniepwils]

Didn't he just give his reasons?

I don't get the tie in to Obama's administration. Why would Obama care about this when there are bigger things in the country to worry about at the moment. Even if we didn't have the economy crisis at the moment, I doubt Obama would ever do anything regarding a train going to Galveston.

[totheskies]

I don't get the tie in to Obama's administration. Why would Obama care about this when there are bigger things in the country to worry about at the moment. Even if we didn't have the economy crisis at the moment, I doubt Obama would ever do anything regarding a train going to Galveston.

B/c they are designing a whole slew of public works projects right now, mostly in the interest of job creation. The new administration is trying to put people to work as soon as they can, and people in Galveston need work. But you're right, if we as Southeast Texans don't write to our representatives and try to bring our projects to the forefront (LRT expansion, commuter rail and other infrastructure needs), then the national government won't know about them.

[RedScare]

I don't get the tie in to Obama's administration. Why would Obama care about this when there are bigger things in the country to worry about at the moment. Even if we didn't have the economy crisis at the moment, I doubt Obama would ever do anything regarding a train going to Galveston.

The tie in is that this project could be a useful infrastructure project to include in the economic stimulus package that Obama has proposed, as opposed to, say, the pothole filling projects that TxDOT put up for consideration.

And I agree.

[kylejack]

So, it may be possible one day to live in Galveston and commute via rail to dowtown Houston? Interesting...

It also solves the problem of how do I get my bicycle to Galveston without a car and without paying ridiculously exorbitant rates to a taxi to ferry my bike across the bridge.

[houstonmacbro]

Personally I'm rooting for this project...

It's great when its a sunny warm weekend day, perfect beach weather... so you hop in the car, expecting a nice 40-50 minute trip down to Galveston Island... only to find you're stuck in traffic for 3 hours and can't find a single place to park once you do get there. Then after a long day, have to fight traffic again just to get home.

The rail project seems like a winner as long as there are plenty of well located Stations with park and rides, and a minimal number of stops along the way. Also the cost being split between Houston and Galveston would cut down the cost as opposed to only Houston, or only Galveston paying for it. Any word on where upwards of $415 million is coming from?

Like I said the number of stops needs to be minimal, so they can keep up the speed and make a very fast trip, but I can see potential in there being a Webster (NASA), or Leauge City Station... and would make sense to have a Hobby Airport station perhaps?... maybe? maybe not?

This would be a good thing. I love going to Galveston, but personally do not like driving there for the reasons you mentioned.

[plumber2]

B/c they are designing a whole slew of public works projects right now, mostly in the interest of job creation. The new administration is trying to put people to work as soon as they can, and people in Galveston need work. But you're right, if we as Southeast Texans don't write to our representatives and try to bring our projects to the forefront (LRT expansion, commuter rail and other infrastructure needs), then the national government won't know about them.

Most of Galveston County is represented in Congress by you know who? Ron Paul. It will do no good for citizens to petition him for any federal spending. He is against any federal funding on local projects. In fact he has been absent from the post Ike scene altogether. Only Nick Lampson and Sheila Jackson Lee have made any efforts for Galveston from the cogressional level. Nick was defeated for re-election by some former Phil Gramm staffer (yuck!), and Sheila does not actually represent any portion of the county.

And if funding this project requires any kind of local bond election then forget it, because the mainland voters will vote it down. They always do when something is perceived to benefit Galveston.

[Trae]

Why would the mainland residents do that? The "what's in it for me" deal?

[plumber2]

Why would the mainland residents do that? The "what's in it for me" deal?

Yeah, that's about the best way to explain it. One of the most blatant examples was when several road bond attempts failed because it had three projects in Galveston on the list. When these were removed, the bond election was held again and it passed.

The projects that were objected to were 1.) A flyover at 1-45 and 61st, connecting traffic from 61st street directly to 1-45.

2.) Extending 61st north via a grade separation to Port Industrial Blvd. 3.) A bridge over Offatts Bayou connecting Port Industrial Blvd. (Harborside Dr.) to FM 3005 (San Luis Pass Rd.).

[Trae]

How dumb. I hope the mainland residents get their head out of their asses and start helping Galveston out.

[barracuda]

Most of Galveston County is represented in Congress by you know who? Ron Paul. It will do no good for citizens to petition him for any federal spending. He is against any federal funding on local projects. In fact he has been absent from the post Ike scene altogether. Only Nick Lampson and Sheila Jackson Lee have made any efforts for Galveston from the cogressional level. Nick was defeated for re-election by some former Phil Gramm staffer (yuck!), and Sheila does not actually represent any portion of the county.

And if funding this project requires any kind of local bond election then forget it, because the mainland voters will vote it down. They always do when something is perceived to benefit Galveston.

It always befuddles me when people vote for the candidate who is against their community's best interests.

[tanith27]

The tie in is that this project could be a useful infrastructure project to include in the economic stimulus package that Obama has proposed, as opposed to, say, the pothole filling projects that TxDOT put up for consideration.

And I agree.

Just saw this. Where is Houston in this list??

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/artic...Obama-Boomtowns

[timedrifter]

Just saw this. Where is Houston in this list??

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/artic...Obama-Boomtowns

It looks like they did just a Top 10 kind of thing. For all we know, Houston could've been #11 on that list.

[J.A.S.O.N.]

"Is train about to leave the station?

By Heber Taylor

The Daily News

Published February 18, 2009

A commuter rail line between Galveston and Houston has been on the drawing board for so many years that many people have come to think of it as the community

[TheNiche]

[totheskies]

This is unmitigated BS. Let's say that 100% of the 11,000 trips daily along the Galveston-League City route are all originating and arriving at the furthest extremes of the route (unrealistically supportive expectation). Let's say that two out of five passengers are riding with someone that they otherwise would've driven with in the same vehicle; let's say that there are no groups of people of three or more riding the train (unrealistically supportive expectation). Let's say that 100% of passengers would otherwise have driven along I-45, not SH 3, not SH 146, not SH 6, and not any other route (unrealistically supportive expectation). That is approximately 8,800 vehicle-equivalent trips per day that are removed from that section of Interstate 45.

The traffic count at I-45 and 61st Street in Galveston was 59,000 vehicles per day at last count (according to a Property Commerce flyer for retail pad sites), probably in 2005. I'm sure that it's much less now. Could it handle an 8,800-vehicle increase in traffic volume without exceeding the congestion point or needing to be reconstructed? Yes. And here's the proof...

At the other end of I-45, just north of FM 518, the traffic count was 132,000 vehicles per day as of 2005 according to League City. That stretch of road is a six-lane configuration without an HOV lane--very typical of the whole route--and it does experience moderate to light congestion levels at various times during the day. Nothing intolerable. Just south of SH 96, there is essentially no congestion at any time during the day, and the traffic count was 104,000 in 2005. The volume of vehicle traffic necessary to begin experiencing congestion on a six-lane freeway is somewhere between 104,000 and 132,000.

The terminus of a League City-Galveston route would presumably be along FM 518 in League City, so it would do nothing to alleviate any congestion north of FM 518. South of FM 518, congestion isn't much of a problem, and a difference of 8,800 vehicles per day makes only a marginal impact on congestion. South of League City, there is a ridiculous amount of excess capacity; the existence of a commuter rail route has no effect whatsoever (and if we really wanted to get serious about average highway speeds, we'd propose to rid ourselves of the speed traps in Texas City and La Marque). But remember: in a real world scenario, passengers get on and off the train at different stops all along the route, diluting the benefit to any one section of freeway. A barely-observable impact to congestion along a few miles of I-45 not justify the reconstruction and widening of the whole section of freeway through Galveston County, therefore such a cost comparison is unjustifiable.

As for the air quality argument, it bears mention that the train has to be powered from some means or another. Whether it is a diesel engine or electricity from a grid powered mostly by coal and natural gas, there's no free lunch. Also don't forget that since the mainland of Galveston County is extremely low-density and poorly served by other forms of public transit, people are going to tend to use this system like a park and ride, thereby reducing vehicle miles traveled somewhat but doing little to reduce the total number of vehicle trips.

So this is a congressional favorite, but it's not something that they'd be interested in funding immediately as part of stimulus bloat? Yeah, sure. We're obviously at the top of the list.

Let's also say that all 59,000 residents of the island... oh wait make that est. 45,000 residents of the island still have their cars after Hurricane Ike, and couldn't possibly benefit from another way to get to the mainland. The commuter rail would presumably get them not only to League City, but all the way to Houston. This has a day-to-day benefit for those that desperately need some more options so they can rebuild their society. It has a long-term benefit to help evacuate the island for future natural disasters. To answer your question... YES, I know that the percentage of evacuees that a rail car can move will be far less than busses on the interstate, but the train (provided the route is designed well) can make several trips and won't have to stop for traffic congestion.

Yes... I'm also aware that this line will take years to build, and that it won't bail out some of the people that need help TODAY. But guess what? If it's approved, it will spur business interest in the island and the whole region. More business interest for the island means more jobs. More jobs means more people that can feed their families, rebuild their homes and help their community. Just like my stupid hat that I bought this weekend at Mardi Gras. It may be just a stupid hat to me, but for the store owner on the island, it's business revenue that she needs at a very critical time. That's why this rail, the possibility of it, and the fact that we even talk about it are important. It sets people in motion, and motion is what Galveston and the Texas Gulf Coast needs.

BTW... the Bolivar is having it's parade on Saturday... I wish them the best.

[TheNiche]

Let's also say that all 59,000 residents of the island... oh wait make that est. 45,000 residents of the island still have their cars after Hurricane Ike, and couldn't possibly benefit from another way to get to the mainland. The commuter rail would presumably get them not only to League City, but all the way to Houston. This has a day-to-day benefit for those that desperately need some more options so they can rebuild their society.

This article was discussing the merits of the first phase only. I agree that a Galveston-Houston connection has more merit.

If this is a program to provide mobility for people who lost cars in Ike, it'll be cheaper to buy and just give them new cars than to build this rail facility...though I'd much prefer just to see something more along the lines of government-backed financing so as that each Dollar goes further. I actually like the idea of subsidizing cars for poor folks; it really increases their earnings power because they can reach more employers. It's an investment in productivity.

It has a long-term benefit to help evacuate the island for future natural disasters. To answer your question... YES, I know that the percentage of evacuees that a rail car can move will be far less than busses on the interstate, but the train (provided the route is designed well) can make several trips and won't have to stop for traffic congestion.

The train would not be affected by congestion, however it would cause congestion wherever there are at-grade crossings. Buses can also make multiple trips if all that they're doing is ferrying people to the mainland, which is the extent of what this phase of rail could do (or even to Houston, if you insist on talking about the totally unfunded phase).

And frankly, I don't care if the buses were slowed down by traffic congestion as part of the evacuation. Evacuees without vehicles are only going to end up spending a lot of time sitting around whenever they get where they're going, anyway. Doesn't matter if they're wasting time on a bus or at a shelter.

Yes... I'm also aware that this line will take years to build, and that it won't bail out some of the people that need help TODAY. But guess what? If it's approved, it will spur business interest in the island and the whole region. More business interest for the island means more jobs. More jobs means more people that can feed their families, rebuild their homes and help their community.

Car subsidies can be done TODAY, and it would increase the productivity and availability of labor. That's good for households and for firms.

Rail within Galveston County (by itself) is dubious as a job creation vehicle. There are plenty of infrastructure benefits that do make sense, however this (by itself) is not one of them. And certainly, the line of argument used to promote this project is deeply flawed.

Just like my stupid hat that I bought this weekend at Mardi Gras. It may be just a stupid hat to me, but for the store owner on the island, it's business revenue that she needs at a very critical time. That's why this rail, the possibility of it, and the fact that we even talk about it are important. It sets people in motion, and motion is what Galveston and the Texas Gulf Coast needs.

This is nothing like your stupid hat.

If you didn't really want your stupid hat and were just buying it as a favor to the store owner, then you should've just given him a donation. And if you're concerned about the livelihood of the people employed at the stupid hat factory, just bear in mind that whatever you gave him would've gotten spent somewhere, supporting people at whichever other factories there are...hopefully not the ones that make worthless consumer trinkets.

[totheskies]

This article was discussing the merits of the first phase only. I agree that a Galveston-Houston connection has more merit.

If this is a program to provide mobility for people who lost cars in Ike, it'll be cheaper to buy and just give them new cars than to build this rail facility...though I'd much prefer just to see something more along the lines of government-backed financing so as that each Dollar goes further. I actually like the idea of subsidizing cars for poor folks; it really increases their earnings power because they can reach more employers. It's an investment in productivity.

Very true, and hopefully someone will realize this and make it happen for the residents of Galveston and Chambers counties. A good situation would involve the commuter rail, more busses, and a whole slew of Ferries that are leaving the island at several points for evacuation.

The train would not be affected by congestion, however it would cause congestion wherever there are at-grade crossings. Buses can also make multiple trips if all that they're doing is ferrying people to the mainland, which is the extent of what this phase of rail could do (or even to Houston, if you insist on talking about the totally unfunded phase).

And frankly, I don't care if the buses were slowed down by traffic congestion as part of the evacuation. Evacuees without vehicles are only going to end up spending a lot of time sitting around whenever they get where they're going, anyway. Doesn't matter if they're wasting time on a bus or at a shelter.

Good to know. Funny how saving human life is... to the greater world I guess it doesn't matter if 10 more, 100 more or 1000 more people's lives are saved, but to those people that are evacuating, it makes a hell of a difference. Less congestion means faster movement, and faster movement means more people can get out. And I'm sure it matters where they waste their time, especially if the shelter has bathrooms that aren't going to overflow, air conditioning systems that won't stall out on the road, food and/or abilities to get food, space in which someone can walk around and stretch their legs... need I go on?

Car subsidies can be done TODAY, and it would increase the productivity and availability of labor. That's good for households and for firms.

Rail within Galveston County (by itself) is dubious as a job creation vehicle. There are plenty of infrastructure benefits that do make sense, however this (by itself) is not one of them. And certainly, the line of argument used to promote this project is deeply flawed.

Couldn't agree more, but we have to have a foundation to start from, and for the ultimate goal of a Houston-to-Galveston connection, this is it.

This is nothing like your stupid hat.

If you didn't really want your stupid hat and were just buying it as a favor to the store owner, then you should've just given him a donation. And if you're concerned about the livelihood of the people employed at the stupid hat factory, just bear in mind that whatever you gave him would've gotten spent somewhere, supporting people at whichever other factories there are...hopefully not the ones that make worthless consumer trinkets.

BTW, my friends and I collectively refer to it as the "stupid hat" b/c I'm the only one that likes it. I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't like it. I paid $20 over the price of the hat b/c I wanted to donate to the store owner as well. I also bought other "stupid" consumer trinkets, and spent about $120 on the whole trip. On a scale basis, it probably means next to nothing in comparison to a rail project, but that $120 is on the island, and it's there now (or well was there and has now been used).

[TheNiche]

Good to know. Funny how saving human life is... to the greater world I guess it doesn't matter if 10 more, 100 more or 1000 more people's lives are saved, but to those people that are evacuating, it makes a hell of a difference. Less congestion means faster movement, and faster movement means more people can get out. And I'm sure it matters where they waste their time, especially if the shelter has bathrooms that aren't going to overflow, air conditioning systems that won't stall out on the road, food and/or abilities to get food, space in which someone can walk around and stretch their legs... need I go on?

Even for Rita, roads were clear on the day before the storm. People who wanted out could get out. And rather than trying to justify an expensive rail line from Galveston (vulnerable) to League City (vulnerable) as an evacuation method, I'd really much rather see large disaster shelters built inland of that part of the coast that is at risk during a storm surge...including a place for people to park their cars. That makes their trip shorter, keeps cars off the roads further inland so as to reduce congestion, allows the buses to make more trips back and forth to coastal areas, allows people to return home more promptly, and can be done at a much lower cost.

Couldn't agree more, but we have to have a foundation to start from, and for the ultimate goal of a Houston-to-Galveston connection, this is it.

I'm not a believer in doing bad projects in order to justify good projects. I believe that the smart things ought to be promoted and undertaken on their own merit. This is no exception!