memebag Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 On an even brigther note. Obama's tax increases can't do anything about $12 increases in oil !They can reduce the deficit and strengthen the dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Yes, the weak dollar policy and budget deficits have proven disastrous for energy prices and the US economy. Another reason for the jump is that an Israeli general said that an attack on Iran was unavoidable, which is, I guess, a threat from their side and not a prediction on what McCain will do. Speculators will jump on even the threat of a threat, so it seems that oil may be the next big bubble.The next administration should commit to finding alternatives to fossil fuels because we have spent the last 8 years watching this and doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 The next administration should commit to finding alternatives to fossil fuels because we have spent the last 8 years watching this and doing nothing. only 8 yrs? let's try double digits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 only 8 yrs? let's try double digits. OUCH! DOn't let Uncle AlGore hear you say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 The next administration should commit to finding alternatives to fossil fuels because we have spent the last 8 years watching this and doing nothing.I agree that reducing our oil dependance is one of top few actions that could strengthen our nation and that alternatives to oil deserve as much a place at the table as domestic production increases.I disagree that we've been doing nothing about it. The energy companies (evil big oil) and the auto companies dumping massive amounts of research $$ into alternative fuels as well as non-gasoline powered vehicles isn't doing nothing about it. Huge subsidies for alternative energy isn't doing nothing about it. Huge subsidies for ethanol with a gargantuan production mandate (pushed by the Bush administration, damn the torpedoes!) isn't doing nothing about it. Of course, your inclusion of "8 years" tells me this is more about beating up on Bush.And by the way. We already have access to an abundant source of non-fossil-fueled energy for our electricity grids. The French have already discovered it and are using it without shame. It's called "nuclear power." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Both Obama and Hillary have said they would force Big Oil to explore alternate energy.Why force the oil companies?Why not encourage new companies to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I agree that reducing our oil dependance is one of top few actions that could strengthen our nation and that alternatives to oil deserve as much a place at the table as domestic production increases.I disagree that we've been doing nothing about it. The energy companies (evil big oil) and the auto companies dumping massive amounts of research $$ into alternative fuels as well as non-gasoline powered vehicles isn't doing nothing about it. Huge subsidies for alternative energy isn't doing nothing about it. Huge subsidies for ethanol with a gargantuan production mandate (pushed by the Bush administration, damn the torpedoes!) isn't doing nothing about it. Of course, your inclusion of "8 years" tells me this is more about beating up on Bush.And by the way. We already have access to an abundant source of non-fossil-fueled energy for our electricity grids. The French have already discovered it and are using it without shame. It's called "nuclear power."ExxonMobil's contribution to alternative fuels amounts to 0.04% of revenues, and US auto companies are at least five years behind foreign competitors. That's why they are getting reamed in the marketplace. Wasn't it just five years ago they got Congress and the administration to give huge tax breaks to people buying Hummers? It really looks like these people are wandering around with no clue about what's coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Why is it the oil companies' responsibility to find alternative fuels for us ? That is like forcing the automakers to invent an engine that runs on cheerios. I was screaming about how big oil was going crazy. Then I read what their actual profit margin is, and it is actually lower or the same as pretty much any other business. The numbers look so large because there is so much of the product changing hands.I guess next, Hillary and Obama will FORCE doctors to perform open heart surgery for the same price as lancing a boil ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I agree that reducing our oil dependance is one of top few actions that could strengthen our nation and that alternatives to oil deserve as much a place at the table as domestic production increases.I disagree that we've been doing nothing about it. The energy companies (evil big oil) and the auto companies dumping massive amounts of research $$ into alternative fuels as well as non-gasoline powered vehicles isn't doing nothing about it. Huge subsidies for alternative energy isn't doing nothing about it. Huge subsidies for ethanol with a gargantuan production mandate (pushed by the Bush administration, damn the torpedoes!) isn't doing nothing about it. Of course, your inclusion of "8 years" tells me this is more about beating up on Bush.And by the way. We already have access to an abundant source of non-fossil-fueled energy for our electricity grids. The French have already discovered it and are using it without shame. It's called "nuclear power."I think one problem is that you need vehicles that can use alternative fuels, and there is no market motivation to produce a car that runs on something that gas stations don't provide, and no market motivation for gas stations to provide something that cars can't use. I dare suggest that sometimes market forces alone can't solve problems. Sometimes you need something to provide some structure for change, even a mandate to change. I suggest that one might need a government to require a change... lordy! That sounds almost socialist! have that girl arrested for anti-american activity immediately.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 It really looks like these people are wandering around with no clue about what's coming. or maybe you'd understand this better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I think one problem is that you need vehicles that can use alternative fuels, and there is no market motivation to produce a car that runs on something that gas stations don't provide, and no market motivation for gas stations to provide something that cars can't use.What newscasts do you watch/papers do you read? large vehicle sales are plummeting. What do you believe the automakers are thinking? things take time to develop and even more time to be cost effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 What newscasts do you watch/papers do you read? large vehicle sales are plummeting. What do you believe the automakers are thinking? things take time to develop and even more time to be cost effective.I'm not talking about vehicle size. And I'm not talking about automakers waiting until gas gets so high that people stop buying F-250's (yes, I read the news). I'm talking about radically rethinking how engines work. When the government agrees to buy a fleet of hybrids, for example, a car company will produce a fleet of hybrids. If the government demands new fuel efficiency standards, car companies will meet them. Not before.And until someone says, YOU are required to build cars that run on potatoes, or whatever, and YOU are required to produce and sell potato fuel, it's not going to happen. That's my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 And until someone says, YOU are required to build cars that run on potatoes, or whatever, and YOU are required to produce and sell potato fuel, it's not going to happen. That's my point.gotcha so you want the price of food to go up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 gotcha so you want the price of food to go up too.Yep, that's exactly my point. I'm part of a radical pro-potato fringe party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20thStDad Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Doesn't have to be food. Corn is just the latest substitute. Someone needs to really invent the Mr. Fusion (back to the future in case you don't like awesome 80s movies), lord knows we make enough trash to power earth and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Yep, that's exactly my point. I'm part of a radical pro-potato fringe party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 How did you come up with that one so fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 How did you come up with that one so fast? that's me on the left! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 What newscasts do you watch/papers do you read? large vehicle sales are plummeting. What do you believe the automakers are thinking? things take time to develop and even more time to be cost effective.They are thinking that they are gonna close truck producing plants for 2 to 4 months until their stock inventory goes down to an acceptable number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 About the same level of wrongness as men doing some type of Red Bull shots.Men should not be wearing jewelry, especially gold. It just raises the ick factor. How about Grillz ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webdude Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 They can reduce the deficit and strengthen the dollar.Some ppl don't want that, they prefer we borrow more money to give to the republican war welfare system.Either that, or they think the deficit will come down using magic from the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Some ppl don't want that, they prefer we borrow more money to give to the republican war welfare system.Either that, or they think the deficit will come down using magic from the sky. You trying to say there is NO magic from the sky ? But of course you are right, only way to pay off the deficit is to tax the crap out of those who actually create the jobs so that they can't create anymore jobs and those that have jobs working for those who create jobs lose their jobs because those that create jobs can't afford their NEW tax bracket unless they cut costs or raise prices on their clientel, and if they raise prices they lose clientel. Easier to drop a couple of wage earners than a few hundred customers now isn't it ? Thanks Obama. The "Republican War Welfare" has always been a catch 22. You guys (Libs.) always screamed about how Iraq was about "oil" I already know what is going to happen within a year or two. We are going to get a Dem. Pres. in office, THEN, it will be "OK" to start grabbing oil from Iraq to help our oil crisis, but you'll of course blame Bush for putting us in a position to have to take the oil from Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 You trying to say there is NO magic from the sky ? I believe there were problems with the magic 'trickling down.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I believe there were problems with the magic 'trickling down.' Well, VooDoo IS a type of magic !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 The "Republican War Welfare" has always been a catch 22. You guys (Libs.) always screamed about how Iraq was about "oil" I already know what is going to happen within a year or two. We are going to get a Dem. Pres. in office, THEN, it will be "OK" to start grabbing oil from Iraq to help our oil crisis, but you'll of course blame Bush for putting us in a position to have to take the oil from Iraq. Where do you get this stuff? Don't tell me, the Ron Paul newsletter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Where do you get this stuff? Don't tell me, the Ron Paul newsletter? So you admit that the war in Iraq was NOT about oil. That is a refreshing point of view from you. There is hope for you yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 This thread again. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 this board needs a vacation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 this board needs a vacationI just need to go have some more drinks with my fellow HAIFers and exhorsize the Demons !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I just need to go have some more drinks with my fellow HAIFers and exhorsize the Demons !!! you drink guzzling polar bear hater, you! I agree. More drinks while we exorcise. Gotta stay hydrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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