sowanome Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 i was looking at townhomes east of 59. Sowanome, why would you say to stay away from Ballpark area?Drive around the ballpark area @ different times of the day and you will see why....... I have no problem with taking care of the homeless, but do you want to take care of the homeless 24/7 along with the numerous shelters that surround the ballpark. East of the ballpark is not bad, but the money that's going into DT, is going to the Pavillion area !!!! When will they ever build commerce in that area near the ballpark ????Many people just don't understand that if you have an opportunity to invest in an area where a major upscale project is going, your money will appreciate with the success of the project. For Example, would you buy near WalMart or Uptown Park? West AVE/2727 Kirby or Greenspoint Mall ? Think about it this way, many of these projects are funded by REITS (real estate investment trusts), that have super analysts, investment bankers and portfolio managers research these developed/established areas for an expected return on investment (IRR). Therefore, they aren't going to invest over $20 million in a subprime area....It's 2008 and what ever these groups invest in with that type of money, better be established! For Example, why is the newest whole foods going to the uptown area and not downtown?? No excuse here because Whole Foods is based out of Austin......Houston is so oblivious to whats happening around the world and that all of this new retail construction/ mixed use is just not happening in other major cities to the level that it's happening here. Sorry for rambling, but my degree is in Real Estate/Economics and so is my line of work..... And for those who said I was focused on new/clean look, that's really untrue, did you see the first two comps I listed???? And those are some of the better deals in Houston. Also, pertaining to Rice Military..... Look @ the upcoming retail and various projects in the area and 4 minutes within the area. That area, the heights (which contains some of rice military) and the w.gray/river oaks is Putting its money where its mouth is!! Investment Bankers aren't visiting these areas from NYC and Chicago for no reason......Look @ it like this, is financially better to marry a poor partner or wealthy partner???????????? Look @ the price of the various older homes/ lofts/condos in these areas: (some of these have been heavily reduced...Royalton, etc..)http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Y (This is a Joke)http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Yhttp://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Yhttp://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Yhttp://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Yhttp://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Yhttp://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Yhttp://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Yhttp://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cf...mp;backButton=Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 For Example, why is the newest whole foods going to the uptown area and not downtown??very few people live downtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 That area, the heights (which contains some of rice military) and the w.gray/river oaks is Putting its money where its mouth is!!some of those listings you posted are going into foreclosure or already are. so it looks like they aren't putting their money where their mouth is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Drive around the ballpark area @ different times of the day and you will see why....... I have no problem with taking care of the homeless, but do you want to take care of the homeless 24/7 along with the numerous shelters that surround the ballpark. I'm not a big fan of the area north of the MMP parking lots for precisely that reason, but south of Texas Ave. isn't so bad...not even remotely approaching Midtown's homeless problem. East of the ballpark is not bad, but the money that's going into DT, is going to the Pavillion area !!!! Don't forget about all the stuff around Discovery Green. That reminds me, the best way to access Discovery Green will be to look at townhomes along Polk St. or Rusk, Capitol, or Texas, which bypass the GRB convention center going into downtown. Living on a street like McKinney would mean that you'd have to walk/bike around the GRB to access the park. When will they ever build commerce in that area near the ballpark ???? Probably within about five years. Retailers don't have good data on household creation in that area yet. Many people just don't understand that if you have an opportunity to invest in an area where a major upscale project is going, your money will appreciate with the success of the project. For Example, would you buy near WalMart or Uptown Park? Depends on which Wal-Mart. Can't even touch Uptown Park prices. Attempting to would bankrupt me (and probably Emirate) within a year. West AVE/2727 Kirby or Greenspoint Mall? West Ave., yes, 2727 Kirby indifferent. What do I care that people wealthier than me would live near me in a tower that I'm not permitted to use? Greenspoint Mall, absolutely if I worked in Greenspoint like Emirate works downtown and is looking for something convenient to downtown. Think about it this way, many of these projects are funded by REITS (real estate investment trusts), that have super analysts, investment bankers and portfolio managers research these developed/established areas for an expected return on investment (IRR). REITs build a lot of conventional and boring product in massive concentrations. I'd be hesitant to buy a home near REIT-built apartments. I'm not going to name names, but we all know who they are and what they've built. Therefore, they aren't going to invest over $20 million in a subprime area....It's 2008 and what ever these groups invest in with that type of money, better be established! REIT activity is a Yogi Berra signal. "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded." For Example, why is the newest whole foods going to the uptown area and not downtown?? Because Uptown is the geographic center of over-educated yuppie households, regionally, and that is a flagship store with a huge geographic draw. No excuse here because Whole Foods is based out of Austin......Houston is so oblivious to whats happening around the world and that all of this new retail construction/ mixed use is just not happening in other major cities to the level that it's happening here. I'd disagree; we're late in getting the mixed-use urbanism trend. Sorry for rambling, but my degree is in Real Estate/Economics and so is my line of work..... Mine are in Economics and Finance, and my professional background is real estate. And for those who said I was focused on new/clean look, that's really untrue, did you see the first two comps I listed???? And those are some of the better deals in Houston. Also, pertaining to Rice Military..... Look @ the upcoming retail and various projects in the area and 4 minutes within the area. That area, the heights (which contains some of rice military) and the w.gray/river oaks is Putting its money where its mouth is!! Investment Bankers aren't visiting these areas from NYC and Chicago for no reason......Look @ it like this, is financially better to marry a poor partner or wealthy partner???????????? Depends on how you measure wealth? Seems like you use gross annual income or net worth. I use net present value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emirate25 Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 I know the Kirby Lofts in downtown Main Street do not have any parking. How are the residents that live in that building dealing with that? Do they have contracts with local parking garages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 some of those listings you posted are going into foreclosure or already are. so it looks like they aren't putting their money where their mouth is.I agree they are in foreclosure, but at least someone wanted to live in them, and at least there's retail/commerce in the area. More than I can say for many areas of downtown...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I agree they are in foreclosure, but at least someone wanted to live in themLOL yeah probably one of those homeless people near the ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I agree they are in foreclosure, but at least someone wanted to live in them, and at least there's retail/commerce in the area. More than I can say for many areas of downtown......At least, you assert, someone wanted to live in them... And that's more than you can say for many areas of downtown... From categorical logic, I am led to believe that you think that no one wants to live in East Downtown. Yet builders keep building and buyers keep buying. Do you attribute that to speculation on the part of investors, who are holding onto vacant units indefinitely? Or do you suppose that builders are just acting irrationally at their own expense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Wow, Net worth vs. NPV? Money talks and B.S. walks........also, if money follows over educated yuppies...then I guess I'm a yuppie and so is the person who started the post..."Price range b/w $150-$200k" for a single person that's 26??? Not bad, Not bad, this person can definitely afford to live comfortable in some of the areas I mentioned...Also, Discovery green park is all part of the DT/Pavillions Economic Base, in case you don't know any better. Also, as far as REITs are concerned, I meant to add in PE firms that are supplying all of these projects with financing. Why not get the best for your money? Who wants to wait 5 years for a scratch of retail development, when 2 years from now you will be in a fully developed highly appreciated area..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipper Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 when you see pressed wood anywhere on a house...sheathing and especially roofing, just stay clear. if they'll cheap out here, they'll cheap out everywhere else too.Are you talking about Oriented Strand Board?flipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 At least, you assert, someone wanted to live in them... And that's more than you can say for many areas of downtown... From categorical logic, I am led to believe that you think that no one wants to live in East Downtown. Yet builders keep building and buyers keep buying. Do you attribute that to speculation on the part of investors, who are holding onto vacant units indefinitely? Or do you suppose that builders are just acting irrationally at their own expense? Builders are build homes based on $Cost...Developers build commercial/retail projects based on area demographics and $money that's in the already in the area... Again, where are these projects? Also notice the price points East of Downtown! 8 years ago, I loved this area east of Downtown because of its' potential.... I still like the area b/c of its Potential, but Potential does not equal RESULTS! Show me the Money and Results Is there anywhere to eat or shop over there besides the coffee manufacturer, Taco Stands (only from 9 to 5) or waterfront factories......Potential does not equal RESULTS! Show me the Money and Results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Builders are build homes based on $Cost...Developers build commercial/retail projects based on area demographics and $money that's in the already in the area... Again, where are these projects? Also notice the price points East of Downtown! 8 years ago, I loved this area east of Downtown because of its' potential.... I still like the area b/c of its Potential, but Potential does not equal RESULTS! Show me the Money and Results Is there anywhere to eat or shop over there besides the coffee manufacturer, Taco Stands (only from 9 to 5) or waterfront factories......Potential does not equal RESULTS! Show me the Money and Results Ok, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapturematt Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Houston & Dallas has been the slowest cities I have seen when it come to loft and DT living. I don't know why considering that it is ripe for the picking. I have not been in Houston long, but you could see the loft living move starting about 10 years ago in Dallas. It was a mad rush then slowed down because the yuppies never had a place to shop or visit downtown. Eventually the commercial, retail, and restaurants came in and now it is a pretty happening. I really believe that DT is on the cusp of being an awesome place to live. I wish I was younger, because I would move there in a sec, but the children (not yet but soon) and the dog need grass to play and the wife wants a garden. Hopefully in 20 or so years when we are empty nester, maybe we will get their chance.Take advantage of the low prices now before you can't afford it like they people in NY can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 LOL yeah probably one of those homeless people near the ballpark. they can't even afford the area East of DT, how can they afford to get over to Memorial or W. gray shopping center area....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Houston & Dallas has been the slowest cities I have seen when it come to loft and DT living. I don't know why considering that it is ripe for the picking. I have not been in Houston long, but you could see the loft living move starting about 10 years ago in Dallas. It was a mad rush then slowed down because the yuppies never had a place to shop or visit downtown. Eventually the commercial, retail, and restaurants came in and now it is a pretty happening. I really believe that DT is on the cusp of being an awesome place to live. I wish I was younger, because I would move there in a sec, but the children (not yet but soon) and the dog need grass to play and the wife wants a garden. Hopefully in 20 or so years when we are empty nester, maybe we will get their chance. Take advantage of the low prices now before you can't afford it like they people in NY can't. Houston is more similar to dallas than it is to NYC, maybe houston to LA...Yes, and houston is just like LA in respect to it's more desireable areas being West of DT, and thats the way it is and will be. Tanglewood, River Oaks, Memorial Drive, West U and Afton Oaks will not change...just as Beverly Hills, West Holloywood, santa Monica and Bel Air... Probably w/n 5 yrs.... A lot of Speculation, Is that your NICHE??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Houston & Dallas has been the slowest cities I have seen when it come to loft and DT living. I don't know why considering that it is ripe for the picking. I have not been in Houston long, but you could see the loft living move starting about 10 years ago in Dallas. It was a mad rush then slowed down because the yuppies never had a place to shop or visit downtown. Eventually the commercial, retail, and restaurants came in and now it is a pretty happening. I really believe that DT is on the cusp of being an awesome place to live. I wish I was younger, because I would move there in a sec, but the children (not yet but soon) and the dog need grass to play and the wife wants a garden. Hopefully in 20 or so years when we are empty nester, maybe we will get their chance.Take advantage of the low prices now before you can't afford it like they people in NY can't.I'd love to live downtown, but I can't afford it right now. Hopefully after I've been w/ this company for a few years I can. But a thousand/month for those places? I know that's not realy expensive but it's still out of my range. And even if I had that kind of money, I don't think I'd want to spend it all on where I live if there's some place cheaper. I don't wanna live there THAT bad. At the same time, I haven't lived on my own in Houston yet so I don't know first hand what the market is like, even in the suburbs, but only from what I've heard from friends.I just think a lot more people would live downtown if it was more affordable. People who make pretty good money aren't the only ones that would like to live there, but I understand the nature of the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
considering Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I really believe that DT is on the cusp of being an awesome place to live. I wish I was younger, because I would move there in a sec, but the children (not yet but soon) and the dog need grass to play and the wife wants a garden. Hopefully in 20 or so years when we are empty nester, maybe we will get their chance.Walking to work would be awesome, I'll give you that. The biggest turn off for me, though, was the much higher maintenance fees compared to townhomes. For me, the extra convienence didn't justify the extra cost. It would be cool though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 they can't even afford the area East of DT, how can they afford to get over to Memorial or W. gray shopping center area.......they couldn't that's why they are the streets now. foreclosure.i'd like to live on river oaks blvd but know i can't afford it. moving somewhere because it's the HOT place isn't my goal. I move places where it is convenient for me. You're just sounding a little bitter cause the chronicle is touting the east side now.Are you talking about Oriented Strand Board?flipperno...but i wouldn't use that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 You're just sounding a little bitter cause the chronicle is touting the east side now.I was thinking more like manic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I was thinking more like manic...maybe she can get a realtor to get the chronicle to do an article too. LOL i just see articles about people complaining about train noise over in the washington corridor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I'd love to live downtown, but I can't afford it right now. Hopefully after I've been w/ this company for a few years I can. But a thousand/month for those places? I know that's not realy expensive but it's still out of my range. And even if I had that kind of money, I don't think I'd want to spend it all on where I live if there's some place cheaper. I don't wanna live there THAT bad. At the same time, I haven't lived on my own in Houston yet so I don't know first hand what the market is like, even in the suburbs, but only from what I've heard from friends.I just think a lot more people would live downtown if it was more affordable. People who make pretty good money aren't the only ones that would like to live there, but I understand the nature of the market.Don't let all the expensive condos and THs discourage you. Why not move into Montrose or a similar neighborhood near downtown? It really is an experience and will change your outlook if you're young and have only lived in burbs or not in big cities. It's a pilgrimage many have made.... Despite all the yuppies, the reason Montrose/Museum District is still the fun zone is because of all the people who can't afford $1,000 a month, and they live in garage apartments, in old four plexes, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 they couldn't that's why they are the streets now. foreclosure.i'd like to live on river oaks blvd but know i can't afford it. moving somewhere because it's the HOT place isn't my goal. I move places where it is convenient for me. You're just sounding a little bitter cause the chronicle is touting the east side now."Exactly... Live where it's convenient and where you can afford to not be house broke." Did you mention that you also live where you can afford to live? With less than $200k, the poster of this forum can afford to live within a 2 minute ride to River Oaks BLVD or Kirby Drive. Who wants to live on the east side and the up and coming 4th and 5th ward areas when they can live near River Oaks BLVD or Kirby Drive and walking distance to Regent Square and the River Oaks shopping center for the same price? Economically and Aesthetically the East end/ Ballpark area has a very long way to go...It's different if the forum starter was buying in the Pavillions or At Discovery Green Park.... Potential, Speculation and Assumptions... You know what they say about the word "ASSUME">>>> when you "ASSUME" you make an Asset of U and ME... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Wow, Net worth vs. NPV? Money talks and B.S. walks........also, if money follows over educated yuppies...then I guess I'm a yuppie and so is the person who started the post...Well hey, you asked how I'd evaluate a prospective spouse's financial situation, and I gave you my answer. I'm not BSing you. Net worth alone doesn't indicate net cash flow. Net cash flow alone doesn't indicate net worth. In an era of indebtedness, gross income fails even to place a cap on cash outflow. Yet at the same time, cash outflow can be treated as consumption or investment, and the latter can build net worth without realizing cash flow until a later date. NPV really and truely is the only measure worth a crap.My own situation is an excellent example. If I liquidated all my investments and fully leveraged my income, this 23-year-old could very easily afford a >$250k townhome in one of your favorite neighborhoods and have enough left over to replace my four-year-old car with a new one of the same model, buy several trendy new suits and fashion accessories, shop at Whole Foods, get a membership at a gym, and then still go out on the town regularly and pick up materialistic chicks that'd be impressed by that kind of thing. Yet I live in a $55k condo and shop at a ghetto Kroger, placing my surplus cash flow not into trendy nick nacks, but into solid investments that'll produce far enhanced cash flows at a later date. I attempt to maximize my NPV. I'd like a wife of similar values; and not a whore--much less the kind of whore that'd be insulted by my explaining to her in no uncertain terms why she's a whore, such as are the type of women that go for foolish or dishonest men.Discovery green park is all part of the DT/Pavillions Economic Base, in case you don't know any better.Yep. And that remarkable DT/Pavilions economic base is within walking distance of much of the East Downtown Warehouse District. Can't say the same for Rice Military.Who wants to wait 5 years for a scratch of retail development, when 2 years from now you will be in a fully developed highly appreciated area.....The kind of person who travels to their place of employment more frequently than to upscale shopping destinations. ...people a lot like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 With less than $200k, the poster of this forum can afford to live within a 2 minute ride to River Oaks BLVD or Kirby Drive. Who wants to live on the east side and the up and coming 4th and 5th ward areas when they can live near River Oaks BLVD or Kirby Drive and walking distance to Regent Square and the River Oaks shopping center for the same price?she can afford to live whereever she wants east or west side. she doesn't live there now so it seems that her lifestyle isn't about being a wannabe like you're recommending.You know what they say about the word "ASSUME">>>> when you "ASSUME" you make an Asset of U and ME...LOL i think i know what you're trying to say....but you're sure not doing a good job cause that's not the saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Builders are build homes based on $Cost...Developers build commercial/retail projects based on area demographics and $money that's in the already in the area... Again, where are these projects? Also notice the price points East of Downtown! 8 years ago, I loved this area east of Downtown because of its' potential.... I still like the area b/c of its Potential, but Potential does not equal RESULTS! Show me the Money and Results Is there anywhere to eat or shop over there besides the coffee manufacturer, Taco Stands (only from 9 to 5) or waterfront factories......Potential does not equal RESULTS! Show me the Money and Results Well...what are the demographics of the East Downtown Warehouse District? Answer me that and I'll consider our disagreement settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sowanome Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 she can afford to live whereever she wants east or west side. she doesn't live there now so it seems that her lifestyle isn't about being a wannabe like you're recommending.LOL i think i know what you're trying to say....but you're sure not doing a good job cause that's not the saying. Funny! But, I will say for the money that was mentioned it'd be a better financial and quality of life decision to move to the areas that I recommended. Who wants to make a long trip to the grocery store, etc...hopefully the pavillions will include one! ! Well...what are the demographics of the East Downtown Warehouse District? Answer me that and I'll consider our disagreement settled. The Demographics are what's in the 2nd and 5th ward areas...Latino and African americans that are of the lower earners of the work force.... In the lofts, it's a lot different, but how many residents does that stand for? less than 3,000.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Who wants to live on the east side and the up and coming 4th and 5th ward areas when they can live near River Oaks BLVD or Kirby Drive and walking distance to Regent Square and the River Oaks shopping center for the same price? The kind of person that will one day sell their east side properties to you and folks like you, then live in River Oaks (or an area of equivalent interest). Potential, Speculation and Assumptions... You know what they say about the word "ASSUME">>>> when you "ASSUME" you make an Asset of U and ME... Or you can put your surplus funds (if any) into an FDIC-insured savings account. Few speculation, few assumptions, no potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Latino and African americans that are of the lower earners of the work force....Hint: the East Downtown Warehouse District was formerly a warehouse district. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Funny! But, I will say for the money that was mentioned it'd be a better financial and quality of life decision to move to the areas that I recommended. Who wants to make a long trip to the grocery store, etc...hopefully the pavillions will include one! While it is clear what YOU consider a better quality of life decision, it is also clear that you have completely ignored what the OP considers important. In one of his very first posts, he said he lives Downtown and LOVES it. You have spent the better part of the day criticizing the very part of town that the OP said he likes. Why you think that is good advice is beyond me. Having lived in Rice Military myself, I wonder about your projections as well. I bought in in 1999, and sold in 2004 for a 50% profit. With the prices in Rice Military right now, coupled with the uncertain housing market, I doubt that an investment in most RM townhomes today will realize a 50% return in 2013. Those types of returns only occur in the gentrifying areas...like East End. Lastly, do you REALLY drive up and down River Oaks Blvd. that often? If you needed a "jealous of the rich people" fix, couldn't one drive from the East End and look at other people's homes just as easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Don't let all the expensive condos and THs discourage you. Why not move into Montrose or a similar neighborhood near downtown? It really is an experience and will change your outlook if you're young and have only lived in burbs or not in big cities. It's a pilgrimage many have made.... Despite all the yuppies, the reason Montrose/Museum District is still the fun zone is because of all the people who can't afford $1,000 a month, and they live in garage apartments, in old four plexes, etc.I was actually looking at rentals on har the other day in that area. I'd love to live right near the Menil. I did notice some places in my price range. One thing I don't wanna do though is live in a place that can get too cold or too hot. I went through that already and it was hellish. I'm not gonna live in a crappy place just for the location...most likely.And if/when I ever make enough money to live in a condo or closer to DT, I think I'd rather rent b/c of monthly fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.