What Makes A City Cosmopolitan?

[skwatra]

One tip Houston could use is, DON'T BUILD FEEDER ROADS! They make the freeway look bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i love feeder roads, they make it so much more convenient. i think all the strip malls and rundown buildings right on the feeder roads are the problem. feeder roads can be made to be a natural part of the freeway and look nice. i've lived in cities without them, and it's hell.

remember 59 just south of downtown before they tore it up? thats how freeways should look.

they need to expand the ROW, add landscaping and get ride of all the crap/billboards. i hope they get the i-10 expansion right, i'm farely certain 59 will look pretty good from DT to shepard.

[YakuzaIce]

Oh, and for the feeders - I agree, we don't need them. But the sad truth is that they're already here. It all comes back to that nasty little six letter word: "zoning".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are feeders a Houston thing or a Texan thing?

I don't think zoning matters with that. But it does matter if you are talking about the ugly strip malls etc.. that are along the feeder roads.

[Houston19514]

It constantly amazes me how many things get blamed on the lack of zoning. Feeder roads and zoning are two totally different and unrelated matters. You can have feeder roads in cities with zoning. You can have unzoned cities without feeder roads.

Likewise, the matter of billboards has nothing whatever to do with zoning.

Zoning has nothing to do with whether American Airlines Arena or Toyota Center is "better" (which is a purely subjective matter of opinion. Because of its location alone (being that it is actually in downtown), I prefer Toyota Center. Neither exterior is particularly exciting to me, but I also prefer the Toyota Center exterior. I have not been inside either one.

Zoning has nothing to do with whether the Hobby Center or the Meyerson Center is "better". Again, a pretty subjective matter of opinion. And since they actually serve rather different purposes, it's somewhat hard to compare them.

[713 To 214]

It constantly amazes me how many things get blamed on the lack of zoning.  Feeder roads and zoning are two totally different and unrelated matters.  You can have feeder roads in cities with zoning.  You can have unzoned cities without feeder roads.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, but Houston has both. I don't think that anyone was trying to suggest that the two were related, but rather that the two, in combination with other things, are having a negative impact on the City.

[Houston19514]

I was referring to zoning in the sense of what is built along our feeders.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so, you would prefer those areas on the feeders be zoned... residential perhaps?

[Houston19514]

Yeah, but Houston has both.  I don't think that anyone was trying to suggest that the two were related, but rather that the two, in combination with other things, are having a negative impact on the City.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, somebody said "Oh, and for the feeders - I agree, we don't need them. But the sad truth is that they're already here. It all comes back to that nasty little six letter word: "zoning"."

I don't know how one can read that and not come to the conclusion that the author was suggesting the two were related.

[kzseattle]

Are feeders a Houston thing or a Texan thing?

I don't think zoning matters with that.  But it does matter if you are talking about the ugly strip malls etc.. that are along the feeder roads.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I remember correctly, I think Austin has feeder roads too.

As Houston19514 has pointed out, I also don

[kzseattle]

Among kings, for sure, yet KZSeattle still remains to be my favorite poster here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many thanks! However, in most cases, I basically repeat what has already been said by other posters. For instance, I know you have stated the above fact many times before me.

[Heights2Bastrop]

The way I see it, a city is either cosmopolitan or it

[Houston19514]

I think all that zoning determines is whether a given lot is going to be commercial or residential but I could be wrong. Do zoning laws include building code or is that something different?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EXACTLY! Zoning laws do not include building codes. Houston has building codes and also has signage ordinances. (Unfortunately, it would have been nice if it had had sign ordinances earlier and I wouldn't mind seeing the on-premises sign ordinances beefed up a bit; nevertheless it does have such ordinances) Zoning laws also do not include parking requirements or building setback requirements, both of which Houston already has. Zoning laws also don't generally include density requirements or restrictions, something which Houston also already has, at least in some areas. (denser residential development is allowed inside the loop than outside)

[Houston19514]

I meant that if there was some pre-existing zoning laws on the books then maybe there would be some limit as to what has been built commercially along our feeders. Zoning is so much more than just claiming something residential, commercial, or industrial.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Such as . . . ??

[editor]

Such as . . .  ??

There are lots of things that can be written into zoning laws. For example, the size, scope, and design of business signs. A place like Hilton Head Island, South Carolina prohibits signs that don't meet very strict specifications for uniformity and diminutiveness. It's very much like the way the business signs are in Sugar Land, but much more restrictive. The result is signs that inform you of where you are and where you are going. Signs that are helpful, not jumping in your face.

Some cities have zoning laws that regulate restaurants differently. I know one city that requires ground floor restaurants to have outdoor sidewalk cafes from April to October. If you have a restaurant on the ground floor of a building with an outside opening, you are required to set up tables and chairs and umbrellas on between 40 and 60% of the sidewalk in front of your establishment. Also, the seating area must be surrounded by wrought iron fences topped with planted and well maintained flowerboxes. I once saw a bar get ticketed because its flowers were dying. It's all in the zoning.

I've only had to deal with zoning once, when I was setting up a business and needed a variance to conduct business where I needed to. Going through the appeals process was quite educational.

Anyway, both of the examples cited above would go a long way toward sprucing up both Dallas and Houston, and make both cities more cosmopolitain.

I think being "cosmopolitian" is largely about options. Do I have the option of going to both the symphony and the rodeo? Do I have the option of walking to a neighborhood cafe? Do I have the option of leaving my car at home and still getting all of my errands done? Do I have the option of escaping to a nice park without having to drive into the countryside? These are areas that both Dallas and Houston either excell at or completely fail.

And I'd like to take this opportunity to nudge the conversation back into the topic of "What Makes A City Cosmopolitain?" to avoid it becoming another Dallas v. Houston list flamewar. Surely, we can converse on a higher level here.

[Houston19514]

There are lots of things that can be written into zoning laws.  For example, the size, scope, and design of business signs.  A place like Hilton Head Island, South Carolina prohibits signs that don't meet very strict specifications for uniformity and diminutiveness.  It's very much like the way the business signs are in Sugar Land, but much more restrictive.  The result is signs that inform you of where you are and where you are going.  Signs that are helpful, not jumping in your face.

Some cities have zoning laws that regulate restaurants differently.  I know one city that requires ground floor restaurants to have outdoor sidewalk cafes from April to October.  If you have a restaurant on the ground floor of a building with an outside opening, you are required to set up tables and chairs and umbrellas on between 40 and 60% of the sidewalk in front of your establishment.  Also, the seating area must be surrounded by wrought iron fences topped with planted and well maintained flowerboxes.  I once saw a bar get ticketed because its flowers were dying.  It's all in the zoning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All of those things can be, and often (I would suggest usually) are, done either without or separate and apart from zoning regulations. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Houston in fact has land-use regulations (eg., building setback, parking requirements, outdoor dining regulations etc etc) and signage regulations. (For one little example, I believe the Memorial Hermann Medical Plaza had to get a waiver of the building setback requirements in order to be allowed to build up to the sidewalk. This strikes me as a wrong-headed requirement in a dense urban zone such as the TMC; nevertheless the city does have such requirements)

[debmartin]

"I think being "cosmopolitian" is largely about options. Do I have the option of going to both the symphony and the rodeo? Do I have the option of walking to a neighborhood cafe? Do I have the option of leaving my car at home and still getting all of my errands done? Do I have the option of escaping to a nice park without having to drive into the countryside?" (quote, editor)

this would be precisely my definition of a cosmopolitan city, but alas houston is not quite there yet.

debmartin

[Houston19514]

Will you people PLEASE read the definition of the word "cosmopolitan"? If each person on the board goes on posting using their own personal (and, I might add, incorrect) defintion, we'll have a proverbial tower of babel, and a huge waste of time.

[editor]

Merriam-Webster Online:

Main Entry: cosmopolitan

Function: adjective

1 : having worldwide rather than limited or provincial scope or bearing

2 : having wide international sophistication : WORLDLY

3 : composed of persons, constituents, or elements from all or many parts of the world

4 : found in most parts of the world and under varied ecological conditions <a cosmopolitan herb>

Dictionary.com

1. Pertinent or common to the whole world: an issue of cosmopolitan import.

2. Having constituent elements from all over the world or from many different parts of the world: the ancient and cosmopolitan societies of Syria and Egypt.

3. So sophisticated as to be at home in all parts of the world or conversant with many spheres of interest: a cosmopolitan traveler.

4. Ecology. Growing or occurring in many parts of the world; widely distributed.

Cambridge Dictionary

adjective USUALLY APPROVING

containing or having experience of people and things from many different parts of the world:

New York is a highly cosmopolitan city.

Wikipedia

The term cosmopolitan refers to an individual who retains cultural roots in his or her country of origin, yet has adopted a wide taste for other cultures, and so lives both a "local" and "global" life. The term is derived from Greek cosmos, the global, and polis, the old Greek city-states (the local).

It is sometimes misused to mean only "the global", either as a person who is seasoned in ways of the world, or as an adjective, to describe something with a far-reaching impact.

It is sometimes used by antisemites as an euphemism for Jew. Stalin used a variant of this; rootless cosmopolitan.

In biology, cosmopolitan refers to an animal or plant found all over the world, under wide-ranging ecological conditions.

Also a popular magazine. See Cosmopolitan Magazine.

A cosmopolitan also refers to a cocktail made with vodka, cranberry juice, and orange liquor.

[debmartin]

"These discussions would be helped immeasurably if everyone could use a dictionary to look up words before they start bloviating, or, in this case, just read the dictionary definition helpfully posted by kzseatlle. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are NOT entitled to our own definitions."

"will you people PLEASE read the definition of the word "cosmopolitan"? If each person on the board goes on posting using their own personal (and, I might add, incorrect) defintion, we'll have a proverbial tower of babel, and a huge waste of time." (quotes, houston19514)

by chance are you now satisfied that "us people" are worthy of this thread?

debmartin

[Gary]

I don't know where you play, or what types of things interest you, but, I can tell by your comments that there is a lot of Dallas that you have not seen.  I assume that if you're a musician, you spend a lot of your time in Deep Ellum or Lower Greenville.  Those places are just the tip of the iceberg

Yeah, Houston has a lot more foreigners.  Many of them are illegal, which diminishes their ability to contribute to the city/society (ie. illegals can't vote).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know Dallas very well, I've been Playing there for 10 years and I do know the city. I've probably been there at least 75 times and most of those times have been in the last 5 to 6 years. And many of those times I stayed with friends and partied all over the city. All you mentioned was Rice Village in your Houston comments and as you know that is also but a small part of the areas in question.

As far as the foreigners comment I was not addressing illegals, I was addressing the legal immigrants. Again there are at least 82 foreign consulates in Houston, that says cosmopolitan all over it. By the way Dallas has 32 foreign consulates.

There are other things to consider when using the definition of cosmopolitan like being the energy capital of the world which brings us into play with almost every industrialized nation on the planet.

I will also say that Dallas is not immune to illegals and although they don't have the numbers Houston does they are growing in number there.

In finishing let me reitterate that I don't dislike Dallas at all, in fact I'm planning on hanging out for the week at the end of march. Also as I said there are things in Dallas that I deffinately like more than I do Houston. In fact I don't care to much for Houston outside of the loop except for the bay area which is really cool (except the water).That being said I find Houston to have a much bigger city atmosphere and coming from LA that suits me better.

By the way although the feeder roads in Houston are ugly as sin they are a great invention. In LA there are absolutely no feeder roads which can make back tracking a real pain in the bleep. However as I said they are ugly.

[Houston19514]

"These discussions would be helped immeasurably if everyone could use a dictionary to look up words before they start bloviating, or, in this case, just read the dictionary definition helpfully posted by kzseatlle. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are NOT entitled to our own definitions."

"will you people PLEASE read the definition of the word "cosmopolitan"? If each person on the board goes on posting using their own personal (and, I might add, incorrect) defintion, we'll have a proverbial tower of babel, and a huge waste of time."  (quotes, houston19514)

by chance are you now satisfied that "us people" are worthy of this thread?

debmartin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If by "us people," you are referring to yourself, then, frankly, no. When you choose to make a post relevant to the discussion of "what makes a city cosmopolitan," that in some way relates to the actual meaning of the word "cosmopolitan," then you'll be "worthy of this thread" (Your words, not mine)

[Gary]

If by "us people," you are referring to yourself, then, frankly, no.

[Houston19514]

I'm confused, I thought I was posting my comments with the proper understanding of the inital question.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now I'M confused too ;-) The quoted post was not directed at you, Gary. I don't think anyone has suggested you misunderstood the question or were getting off-track...

[debmartin]

"If by "us people," you are referring to yourself, then, frankly, no. When you choose to make a post relevant to the discussion of "what makes a city cosmopolitan," that in some way relates to the actual meaning of the word "cosmopolitan," then you'll be "worthy of this thread" (Your words, not mine)"

(quote, houston19514)

i was calling attention to the childish post of "you people" which is rude and condescending. sorry i do not subscribe to "the world according to houston19514" and my impression was this was an open thread, replying to the question "what makes a city cosmopolitan". instead of letting everyone weigh in with their own idea you kick and scream "you people should look the word up in the dictionary" if the definition does not match your own. how boring life would be if we all thought alike - aren't we here to share ideas?

debmartin

[Houston19514]

My dear, as was quite clear in my earlier posts, it's not MY definition I'm asking people to follow. There's no request for "the world according to Houston19514." Just something like "the world according to Webster."

I'm all for hearing other peoples' ideas... when you get one, be sure to let us know.

Let's share ideas, indeed. But if we are to share ideas, we have to start by sharing a language.

[westguy]

Now try replacing cosmopolitan in every post with the word "white".

[editor]

Now try replacing cosmopolitan in every post with the word "white". 

Let's not. That's a flame war waiting to happen.

[debmartin]

thank you editor for putting an end to all this nonsense.

debmartin

[tamtagon]

I always think a swanky nightclub scene builds a cosmopolitian cache. A convenient park or diner where stranger talk very briefly about very intense subjects. Cool people, cool atmosphere with the experience and ability continue a discussion over weeks or months without needing a core of individuals to carry the conversations. A subconscious awareness of living in a big city being the primary exclusivity barrier to this cosmopolitian environment. Disdain for social position brought on by the need to talk and interact within a social group made up of individuals sharing similar conclusions despite personal situations - a whole bunch of different kinds people helping each other get over it.

[Gary]

Now I'M confused too  ;-)  The quoted post was not directed at you, Gary.  I don't think anyone has suggested you misunderstood the question or were getting off-track...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didin't take the post from Deb Martin personally I was trying to figure out why she seemed to accuse everyone on the thread of not understanding the stated deffinition of "cosmopolitan".

Maybe I should have explained myself better.

[Gary]

Now I'M confused too  ;-)  The quoted post was not directed at you, Gary.  I don't think anyone has suggested you misunderstood the question or were getting off-track...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't take the post personally I was simply asking why she lumped every poster on this thread into one statement.

I probably should have made my comment more clear.

[111486]

I hate to be the one to say this, but citykid hit the nail on the head, when talking about the differences between Houston and Dallas as far as development goes.

Houston has more action taking place in the suburbs rather than downtown and midtown. I cannot trust any type of proposal that happens in Houston until it turns into construction. It makes my stomach turn how anti progressive the city is when dealing with downtown.