It's Official: Diversity Causes Misery

[CDeb]

That would be a cool bumper sticker but I think College Station already owns the copyright on it.

Are you kidding me? The powers that be at TAMU are so sensitive about the diversity issue that they are overcompensating, big-time. They are driving the jacked-up, oversized tires, naked-lady mudflaps diversity truck.

[Guest danax]

There are no excuses for not getting involved. The part of it being a language barrier is bull. Our Super Neighborhood gatherings are spoken in both languages if needed. Majority of these people are ready to whine and gripe but how bad the surroundings are but truth is they are lazy. Period.

..................Now if they started having free beer at these Community Events you will have a packed house. Ola!

The truth is no one is really sure of why the immigrants won't get involved. Our nabe even has a team from Rice U. doing "ethnographic" research because they've had very little response to their attempts to get residents to use, for free, a new device that will monitor medical conditions and relay vital stats via the wireless network that they've installed in Pecan Park. There are some very hard working people here so lazy probably isn't the best term. Suspicious, distrustful of government and people not "of their kind" might be more accurate.

Which adds credence to the Harvard study's results.

[Vertigo58]

Suspicious, distrustful of government and people not "of their kind" might be more accurate.

Which adds credence to the Harvard study's results.

Correct you are again, and the Suspicious, etc you state above is exactly correct same as if a person was shoplifting or sneaking into a theater. Guilt is a major factor as well. If I robbed a bank, would I go in and say Hi it's me! to everyone 30 minutes later?

Distrustful of Govt. Sure. If you know you are breaking the law, of course you don't like authority.

Finally the ignorance of not wanting to assimilate. All of us have been through this same topic again and again. Never an answer. If you read the Chron and the comments from all of Houston, well that tells all. Haif is just a spec of universal opinion. Not just mine.

Ola chamacco's!

[VicMan]

1. http://www.studygs.net/tsttak2a.htm - Says it all!

"Absolute words restrict possibilities.

These imply the statement must be true 100% of the time and usually cue a "false" answer

e.g.: "No" "never" "none" "always" "every" "entirely" "only" "

with that out of the way...

2. "And FYI, simply walking past someone of a different color in the library or Krogers doesn't count as racial mixing Vic."

There's always a chance to start a conversation:

* Oh, what is halal meat?

* Hey, I notice that you are reading Freud in German. Why aren't you are reading it in English?

* Oh, Federico Garcia Lorca! I love his works!

And library and other community-sponsored events (computer classes, puppet shows, storytime) bring audiences together to partake in the experiences collectively.

3. Remember what was said about absolutes above?

People who go/went to HISD magnets (me) would laugh at that statement.

4. I see that the United States is unified on one level and diverse on other levels. In an ideal situation, this will give our country the advantages of both ideals and the disadvantages of none. Realistically, this does not always happen (i. e. the point about community associations), but the good news is that we can mend racial relationships to get as close to the ideal as humanly possible.

Au contraire. There is no meangingful racial mixing anywhere in this city...even with the eyecandy in Pecan Park (what does that mean?)...that's the point of the study. Diverse populations, (and it's not limited to diversity of skin color) have less trust and are less productive than those communities who are on the same page together embracing similar values.

And FYI, simply walking past someone of a different color in the library or Krogers doesn't count as racial mixing Vic. Just take a look at HISD, prime example of diversity and completely dysfuntional! Their schools and administration have a lot of diversity but are segregated by race, gang, and immigration status...miserable places and completely substandard.

Diversity is overrated. We have the proof. The question is how to unifiy. Maybe we can start by convincing some of our neighbors to take down their Mexican flags.

[TheNiche]

There's something to be said for the idea that there is an optimal level of diversity and that optimal level still incorporates a majority of one ethnic group. The trick is to have enough of various ethnic groups that the minorities must integrate with the majority to be able to function in society and so that they cannot splinter off into their own seperate community.

For instance, there are enough Mexicans in many parts of Houston that a child of a Mexican immigrant could go their whole life and not speak English if they really don't want to. The incentives for assimilation are much lower than, for instance, a Nigerian...or even the very same Mexican if they lived in The Woodlands.

I have an example: UH. It always annoyed me to see all the various ethnic communities form their own clubs and organizations. UH may be a highly diverse school, but for the most part, there is very little need for members of a minority ethnic group to escape their comfort zone because they can fulfill their social needs within it. And at least IMO, every one of the ethnic groups--including whatever the pluralistic majority group was--became the worse off for it.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

It's Official: Diversity Causes Misery, Harvard Political Scientist's Study

And here I thought it was just the "marriage" thing that caused my misery...I never realized it was the "interracial marriage!"

If only I'd married into my own race, I'd be living in marital bliss!

[TJones]

And here I thought it was just the "marriage" thing that caused my misery...I never realized it was the "interracial marriage!"

If only I'd married into my own race, I'd be living in marital bliss!

Think again pal ! ! !

[WesternGulf]

I have an example: UH. It always annoyed me to see all the various ethnic communities form their own clubs and organizations. UH may be a highly diverse school, but for the most part, there is very little need for members of a minority ethnic group to escape their comfort zone because they can fulfill their social needs within it. And at least IMO, every one of the ethnic groups--including whatever the pluralistic majority group was--became the worse off for it.

I don't get your last sentence but for the most part it is true and for all the B.S. the Muslim community goes through these days, they seem the most "cliquish" of the different groups at U of H. Any person or student does not need to spend a week on campus to know this. I am not calling for conformity or the whole "melting pot" or what some people call white wash, but you can still go outside your "comfort zone" without losing your culture or who you are.

[VicMan]

In fact, one of the tips in my university guide books states that one must strive to explore diversity; he or she has to escape (verb) his or her comfort zone in order to experience different types of people. This does not come automatically in life.

I suppose that this is true in and outside of university.

For instance, there are enough Mexicans in many parts of Houston that a child of a Mexican immigrant could go their whole life and not speak English if they really don't want to. The incentives for assimilation are much lower than, for instance, a Nigerian...or even the very same Mexican if they lived in The Woodlands.

And this has been happening for decades. This Snopes article discusses why the "old immigrants versus new immigrants" debate is not true: http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/newimmigrants.asp

[musicman]

In fact, one of the tips in my university guide books states that one must strive to explore diversity; he or she has to escape (verb) his or her comfort zone in order to experience different types of people. This does not come automatically in life.

I suppose that this is true in and outside of university.

not sure if I agree with this. "strive to explore diversity" is a little over the top. For me it pretty much is automatic.

[millennica]

I've been following this thread for a while now trying to decide whether or not to throw in my 2 cents, especially since anthropologists are supposed to know something about diversity. A couple of points. First while I agree with Putnam's conclusions about diversity being associated with lower levels of civic engagement, I feel it is important to emphasize something I mentioned before: that in research studies, correlation does not necessarily mean causation. Just because two event occur simultaneously or two things are correlated doesn't mean one caused the other. In statistics, it is generally accepted that observational studies can give hints (comparing academic achievement of students who are in small classes versus the achievement of those in large classes) but can never establish cause and effect. The only studies that researchers consider to be causal are those that use randomized experiments, which is accepted gold standard for causation. In the case just mentioned, a randomized experiment would require taking a large number of students, randomly assigning them into two groups, one in small classes the other in large classes then determining whether one group achieve a significantly higher score on some outcome measure, for example, an standardized achievement test. Unfortunately, in many real world situations, not only isn't it possible to use random assignment, it would be unethical. The difficulty of conducting randomized experiments in many of the social science fields is one reason that scholars in these fields continue to argue and bicker about their findings and whether a particular study has demonstrated something conclusively.

As far as providing examples/counterexamples of how diversity influences civic involvement as Jeebus did, let me say that I've lived in several different communities--some diverse some not. In one of the diverse communities, civic involvement was high, in another, it wasn't. In one of the homogeneous communities, civic involvement was high in other it was not. In Philadelphia, I lived in a very diverse community where civic involvement was high, but which may have been accounted for by the fact that everyone was a faculty or staff member at the nearby university. On the other hand, when I lived in Chapel Hill, NC in an equally diverse community, levels of civic involvement were fairly low, which could have been attributed to the fact that the neighborhood was more transient and was composed of a more heterogeneous group than only university employees. I have also lived in 2 all-Black communities, one with high levels of civic involvement, the other with none. Currently, I live in a predominantly white neighborhood in the SF Bay Area (there are only 2 Black families living in the neighborhood) where I have tried to get people involved in dealing with some of the situations about which various neighbors have expressed concern. What I have learned is that the neighborhood doesn't have a tradition of civic involvement which was established (or perhaps I should say not established) long before I moved here. And frankly, my neighbors have made it clear that they weren't interested before and aren't interested now. In fact, the people who have lived in the neighborhood for a while claim that all of the push for civic involvement is something brought in by newcomers who don't understand the way things are done. I mention this only because I think it is possible that other factors could also contribute to the presence or absence of civic involvement. This suggests what Putnam (and others have) stated that it likely requires more than simply having people from different racial backgrounds occupy the same space to get them productively involved with each other. Also as danax noted, people really aren't sure why immigrants don't get involved. Some believe, as danax noted, that distrust of the government could be a factor. Even some government agencies are trying to find out if this is one reason immigrants don't get involved, what other reasons might be, and are taking steps to figure out how to get their cooperation. The Census Bureau has hired anthropologists who have studied various immigrant communities to help figure out how to get different groups to participate in the Census. Because of my ethnographic research in several Haitian communities, I was hired to help figure out how to get more members of the Haitian community to participate in the census.

Although many people use assimilation as a global term, I find it helpful to use two different terms-- acculturation as opposed assimilation, something that social scientists frequently do, to talk about slightly different processes that sometimes co-occur and sometimes don't. Assimilation is achieved by law, policy and attitude that actively encourages immigrants to become fellow Americans and identify with the US as a nation Acculturation, on the other hand is the immigrants' willingness to abandon their original cultural attributes and conform entirely to the behaviors, specifically the superficial cultural features of the dominant society-the food, dress, speech and etiquette-- of the majority of the native-born population. Sociologists and anthropologists refer to the process of conforming to superficial cultural features of the dominant society as acculturation. The conventional wisdom about whether immigrants or their descendants are assimilating is usually based on how much of their native cultural heritages they have discarded and how culturally "American" they seem. Using this standard, a foreign-born teenager listening to rock music on his iPod wearing a baseball cap backward, and speaking accent-free English is "assimilated," whereas an Amish farmer is not. We often see acculturation, but not assimilation among teenagers from immigrant backgrounds who can be acculturated (the immigrant teenager listening to rock music on his iPod wearing a baseball cap backward, eating McDonald's and other fast foods) and not assimilated. And there are some groups in the US who are assimilated and not acculturated. Some examples are Mormons, Hassidic Jews, the Amish, Sikhs. A number of sociologists and anthropologists who have studied this phenomenon have concluded that children and teenagers from immigrant families who acculturate quickly to US adolescent norms frequently do less well in school, have more negative encounters with the legal system, more conflicts with parents and teachers, have poorer health outcomes both physical and mental than children and teenagers who remain more culturally encapsulated. It is worth noting, that many academics who study the US believe the process of assimilating immigrants has been more successful than it has in some European countries--consider the situation of North Africans in France-- is because in the US assimilation has been more flexible and accommodating, which because it has not meant repudiating immigrant culture, has been more effective in achieving its purpose.

Last I agree that college campuses are often marked by the presence of ethnically identifiable groups with little border crossing between the groups. Plenty of folks have written about the phenomenon, attempted to explain why it exists and some have even offered suggestions about how to change the situation. But, if I get into that I will have put in much more than 2 cents worth.

[Vertigo58]

you can still go outside your "comfort zone" without losing your culture or who you are.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above.

PS, I just want to give an example of ignorance:

I recall years ago at a party people were sitting around making idle chit chat. I was with 2 ladies that were not used to being around a mixed crowd (coworkers). An African-American lady is standing nearby and we start talking about music, we dance and come back to our spot near the stairs. One of these other 2 women start asking her if she is into Motown like they are? I thought this had to be one of the stupidest things to bring up. Not that Motown is bad but they based it on the fact that she was of a different color. They tried to act like they knew all about it or could relate to it. I could have kicked her in the stomache. (the coworker) I felt bad for the lady I danced with because she was only being sociable. She rose up to the occasion and let it go and walked away.

Some people think because you have a Spanish surname that you only speak Spanish? What? How ignorant.

When I worked in International Exporting, majority of my accounts did not have Spanish sounding last names. Most were in Argentina, Venezuaela, Peru, Brazil, etc and do not have Spanish 1st or last names but they spoke perfect Catalan. Most of the clients I knew looked more European than Latin as well. In the US, some (ignorant) people think since you have a Spanish last name that all you eat is Mexican food.

I once worked with a guy that said well don't all Hispanic people like spicy foods?

Again, people keep judging by appearance. Perceptions people. Sadly, enough some groups keep on stereotyping themselves and have no problem admitting it. I wont even start naming the comedians that do this for a living. This is what sets everyone back 100 years as well.

[CDeb]

In the US, some (ignorant) people think since you have a Spanish last name that all you eat is Mexican food.

I'm a white guy with a french last name and all I eat is Mexican food.

[westguy]

The blue font is really hard on the eyes. I couldn't get through your whole post.

[Toggle3]

... anthropologists are supposed to know something about diversity.

The 'embrace diversity' crowd on the Left w/its political agenda has created, and shoved down the throats of Americans, this fantastic and unsound idea called "culture as a tossed salad metaphor" along with the weird and wacky notion of "multiculturalism".

Neither of these two invented concepts exist in anthropological theory. There is simply a culture with sub-cultures.

Naturally, the politically correct language police frowns on any group being labeled as "sub" lest someone be offended (and of course the White oppresors can't be allowed dominant status) so instead throw anthropoligical findings out the window and create their own perverse system.

-- is because in the US assimilation has been more flexible and accommodating, which because it has not meant repudiating immigrant culture, has been more effective in achieving its purpose.

The American system is not more accommodating or flexible. This country was founded on very clear ideas and values---and clearly does repudiate many immigrant values and rightly so. Americans do not embrace seventh century middle eastern culture, we do not embrace women as chattel, we do not embrace the Venezulan government control of the press or the Mexican culture of 'mordida'--bribery of judges and police, to give just a few examples.

The list of what Americans are inflexible about is long...and thank goodness! No female circumsion in Iowa. No infanticide in Jersey. Stoning women isn't going to happen in Los Angeles. Islam isn't going to replace the U.S. Constitution in Idaho. Tolerance is overrated. Diversity is overrated.

Americans unite!

[TJones]

I'm a white guy with a french last name and all I eat is Mexican food.

I am a whiteguy with a Welsh last name, and if I had the choice, all I would eat is Mexican Food. Meat, beans, rice, salsa, and tortillas. What else do you need ?

[RedScare]

Americans unite!

So, what happens when Black, Hispanic and tolerant White Americans decline your invitation to unite?

[KinkaidAlum]

The American system is not more accommodating or flexible. This country was founded on very clear ideas and values---and clearly does repudiate many immigrant values and rightly so. Americans do not embrace seventh century middle eastern culture, we do not embrace women as chattel, we do not embrace the Venezulan government control of the press or the Mexican culture of 'mordida'--bribery of judges and police, to give just a few examples.

The list of what Americans are inflexible about is long...and thank goodness! No female circumsion in Iowa. No infanticide in Jersey. Stoning women isn't going to happen in Los Angeles. Islam isn't going to replace the U.S. Constitution in Idaho. Tolerance is overrated. Diversity is overrated.

Americans unite!

Yes, the big bad liberal intellectual elite are it it again. How dare people try to progress and force others to follow.

This country would have been better if we had jumped on the Toggle3 bandwagon hundreds of years ago back when there was "ONE" real America.

That America didn't allow women to vote. That America condoned slavery and later Jim Crow. That America turned a blind eye when the "REAL" Americans decided to enforce things on their own via lynchings, cross burnings, and more. That America didn't mix the sexes or races in matters of education and work.

Ah, those were the good old days!

Good luck on your quest to recreate them, Toggle3. I say you bring your vision to Emancipation Park next Juneteenth to share your ONE AMERICA/ONE AMERICAN view.

[flyingman]

I'm quite happy and content when I go to the University of Houston and am surrounded by so many different people. If anyone was miserable I doubt they would even consider going there. I don't think you'll succeed in rewinding that kind of progress anywhere. We're your future. Isn't that scary? Call the police, progress is trying to taking place.

Conclusion: Diversity causes Toggle Misery.

[CDeb]

That America didn't allow women to vote. That America condoned slavery and later Jim Crow. That America turned a blind eye when the "REAL" Americans decided to enforce things on their own via lynchings, cross burnings, and more. That America didn't mix the sexes or races in matters of education and work.

This is exactly what I meant earlier.

Those who claim to "value diversity" can't handle a little diversity of opinion on the very subject of diversity.

The above post is a prime example of that.

[RedScare]

No, it is not. It is merely a post that points out flaws in the previous statement. The fact that Kinkaid and Toggle's posts exist on the same thread is proof that diversity of opinion DOES exist...and can coexist.

[Jax]

Conclusion: Diversity causes Toggle Misery.

Haha!

If Houston didn't have diversity, I for one would be less likely to stick around...

[TJones]

The 'embrace diversity' crowd on the Left w/its political agenda has created, and shoved down the throats of Americans, this fantastic and unsound idea called "culture as a tossed salad metaphor" along with the weird and wacky notion of "multiculturalism".

Neither of these two invented concepts exist in anthropological theory. There is simply a culture with sub-cultures.

Naturally, the politically correct language police frowns on any group being labeled as "sub" lest someone be offended (and of course the White oppresors can't be allowed dominant status) so instead throw anthropoligical findings out the window and create their own perverse system.

The American system is not more accommodating or flexible. This country was founded on very clear ideas and values---and clearly does repudiate many immigrant values and rightly so. Americans do not embrace seventh century middle eastern culture, we do not embrace women as chattel, we do not embrace the Venezulan government control of the press or the Mexican culture of 'mordida'--bribery of judges and police, to give just a few examples.

The list of what Americans are inflexible about is long...and thank goodness! No female circumsion in Iowa. No infanticide in Jersey. Stoning women isn't going to happen in Los Angeles. Islam isn't going to replace the U.S. Constitution in Idaho. Tolerance is overrated. Diversity is overrated.

Americans unite!

Hmmmmmm.......a few things for YOU to ponder Toggle. We are all tolerating your obviously race driven tirades about being undiverse, and how you have decided NOT to embrace your surroundings. I guess you'll have to go pound sand, you may have noticed that noone has asked that your threads be shutdown or that any moderator has decided to put the kaibosh on you. This is how tolerance works. We decide whether we want to read your little rants about how America USED to be or should be, and if we do read them, we have the choice to decide whether you are a race-baiter or just someone poorly schooled in how to treat their fellow human being. I am guessing you never got to watch schoolhouse rock as a kid on Saturday mornings, because you would have seen the one about America being a MELTING POT ! I don't know, perhaps your Pa needed the generator out of the mobile home that day to help run the hot plate on the still ? So, while you stomp around in your Doc Martins and fatigues and talk to yourself about how glad you are that somebody shot MLKjr. I just want you to think about this while you are busy shaving your head and putting Neosporin on your fresh Swazstika tattoo. Ask yourself how your hatred towards other races and cultures is actually working out for you ?

btw, if you think that only the "LEFT" embrace diversity, you may want to find out who actually freed the slaves, and who gave amnesty to all the illegals back in the 80's.

[WesternGulf]

btw, if you think that only the "LEFT" embrace diversity, you may want to find out who actually freed the slaves, and who gave amnesty all the illegals back in the 80's.

At the expense of sounding too literal again , you do know that Republicans were not exactly leaning to the right back in the day and African Americans were mostly Republicans, while they vote close to around 90% for Dems today in presidential elections. I do not think I need to mention the economical factors of freeing slaves rather than moral reasoning. I am not saying only one group embraces diversity, I think it is more regional as far as how people come up with those conclusions. As a minority who votes to the left as far as parties and social issues most of the time, I can say I could probably vote for some Republicans in other regions of the country, but that is another thread.

[VicMan]

TJones, remember that political parties change as time moves.

The Republican Party of the mid-1800s is different from the Republican Party of today.

[musicman]

i went to lunch with a former collegemate, who's vietnamese. she married an white european. i'd hadn't seen her in at least 10 yrs if not longer. we started talking and she told me how that if she had it to do over, she wouldn't have married her husband. i asked why and she said "well it was a little harder than i thought it would be". she said people have come up to them in the mall and said "you should have never put your children through that" (meaning the 1/2 vietnamese 1/2 european thing).

just amazes me.

[TJones]

i went to lunch with a former collegemate, who's vietnamese. she married an white european. i'd hadn't seen her in at least 10 yrs if not longer. we started talking and she told me how that if she had it to do over, she wouldn't have married her husband. i asked why and she said "well it was a little harder than i thought it would be". she said people have come up to them in the mall and said "you should have never put your children through that" (meaning the 1/2 vietnamese 1/2 european thing).

just amazes me.

What mall , what city. I ain't buying that one musicman. You would have alot of Vietnam veterans who have gone through the same thing then.

[musicman]

What mall , what city. I ain't buying that one musicman. You would have alot of Vietnam veterans who have gone through the same thing then.

i agree it is hard to believe. they are on the s/w side but i didn't ask her specifically what mall. i've known him a little less than 20 yrs and her more than 20 yrs so i know they aren't making it up. it was hard for her to discuss it so i didn't ask too many questions.

[TJones]

i agree it is hard to believe. they are on the s/w side but i didn't ask her specifically what mall. i've known him a little less than 20 yrs and her more than 20 yrs so i know they aren't making it up. it was hard for her to discuss it so i didn't ask too many questions.

I can take alot of insults, but if someone wants to bring my children into it, Lord help you. You will get some 5th ward beads thrown on you ! Then, after my wife gets done with them, I will start. You know what I'm sayin' musicman.

[Jax]

Any wife who says she shouldn't have married her husband most likely has more problems with him as a person than with any racial issues. I could care less what people in a mall say to me. If the mall thing got to her so easily than I am guessing the marriage has some other issues she probably didn't tell you about.