Forest Brook High School At 7525 Tidwell Rd.

[VicMan]

Normally, I do not make entire threads to bash a school and show its issues. Yet, we found major vandalism and major cheating at Forest Brook High School.

Okay, the school did not ask for some idiot kids to spray a water hose through the school, though I have no clue how they entered the school: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=...&id=5496886

Yet, the real ugliness is shown in this Dallas Morning News report explaining that scores plummeted once observers were placed in the TAKS testing rooms: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...n2.42623f4.html

"On the 11th-grade test

[hbcu]

it's North Forest..what do you expect? The whites left NFISD years ago, the blacks who could leave checked out after that and migrated to Humble and your left with a different type of parent/student now.

[houstonsemipro]

So what else is new?

[dalparadise]

it's North Forest..what do you expect? The whites left NFISD years ago, the blacks who could leave checked out after that and migrated to Humble and your left with a different type of parent/student now.

The "whites"?

The "blacks"?

Is this some archived page from 1957?

[musicman]

The "whites"?

The "blacks"?

Is this some archived page from 1957?

in 1957 some different terms would have been used.

[VicMan]

So what else is new?

Semipro has a good point, folks - North Forest has been having leadership issues since the late 1980s.

Should I start a group called "End North Forest" or something to that effect? I do NOT advocate closing ALL of the NFISD campuses (since they seem to be in okay shape, aside from Forest Brook) - I merely advocate transfer of political control of areas within Houston to Houston ISD and areas outside of Houston to HISD, Aldine ISD, and/or Humble ISD.

[hbcu]

as to who gets the kids is the question...some districts might not want the extra burden and you got to also think you have people who will lose jobs as a result of the merger...

as funny as it sounds, blacks have suffered as a result of integration as the better black schools were forced to close and merged in with white schools and the better teachers were split up all over the place.

I'm not advocating segragation but looking at the results of it blacks haven't benefited as much as some would think. Areas that were strong weakened overnight and you look at growth patterns now whites still are isolated in large concentrations outside the city...

[Toggle3]

as to who gets the kids is the question...some districts might not want the extra burden and you got to also think you have people who will lose jobs as a result of the merger...

as funny as it sounds, blacks have suffered as a result of integration as the better black schools were forced to close and merged in with white schools and the better teachers were split up all over the place.

I'm not advocating segragation but looking at the results of it blacks haven't benefited as much as some would think. Areas that were strong weakened overnight and you look at growth patterns now whites still are isolated in large concentrations outside the city...

On July 2, 2007, the brilliant Chief Justice Roberts said "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race" and the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the integration plans in school districts in Seattle and Louisville, Ky., that used race as a way to determine which schools students should attend.

Segregation stills happens naturally. Birds of a feather flocking together and all. The bigger problem is that HISD is unable to fix itself and the horrific problems of its schools. HISD is all about self-promotion and aelf-aggrandizement but knows nothing about accountability.

HISD has a culture problem. It embraces the culture of victimhood. It embraces the culture of nepotism. It embraces the culture of diversity and left-wing politics. It embraces the culture of money rather than education.

HISD is corrupt. Board member Kevin Hoffman is the epitome of what is wrong with HISD.

Too bad all the good teachers are leaving and segreagting themselves in other districts.

Edited July 30, 2007 by Toggle3

[VicMan]

Hey Toggle, I may wish to clarify some stuff.

" The bigger problem is that HISD is unable to fix itself and the horrific problems of its schools. HISD is all about self-promotion and aelf-aggrandizement but knows nothing about accountability. " - Because a lot of the problems originate from the communities that HISD serves, while a few originate from the HISD administration culture that stems from some of the communities that HISD serves. You try to teach at a low income middle school like Berendo Middle School in Los Angeles. Richard Geib did so in the 1990s and he felt that he was part of an inevitable cycle of failure. Read all about it here: http://www.rjgeib.com/biography/inner-city...s/innerblu.html

However, the one aspect we can control is governance and access to better schools that have not been poisoned by dysfunctional cultures. Houston ISD has various school options on all levels, so if the parent is willing to explore and option, he or she will find one that he or she likes; too many parents in HISD do not shop around because they are too busy working or for some other reason.

North Forest ISD has no options - two AAAA high schools, three middle schools, six elementary schools, and a PreK school - all determined by house address.

"HISD has a culture problem. It embraces the culture of victimhood. It embraces the culture of nepotism. It embraces the culture of diversity and left-wing politics. It embraces the culture of money rather than education." - Okay, it may be true that HISD has some problems, but I do not believe that "diversity" (HISD dropped using race to admit kids to school long before the Supreme Court issued the judgement - and it is too easy to make multiethnic schools without racial quotas) nor "left wing politics" is at fault. "Left wing" is a broad label and therefore is misleading. Why don't we try "urban" - some members of some communities feel entitled to such jobs. This is why Saavedra, hailing from Corpus Christi, cannot remove a lot of administrators.

" It embraces the culture of money rather than education. "

That's a terribly misleading label. ALL schools and school districts have to value money in order to stay afloat. Rather, it's mismanagement of money that is the problem. Read about the charter schools in Texas that had worse mismanagement: http://www.houstonpress.com/issues/1999-07-22/feature_4.html

What you mean to say is that HISD should be concerned about properly using taxpayer dollars. I know HISD has a problem with this because my teachers tell me about how there are too many administrators in HISD.

Anyway, it IS possible to get a good education in HISD (easier in elementary school, more difficult in middle and high school) so long as the parent is able to place his or her child in a good or excellent public school.

These options do not exist in NFISD, AND the politics are completely dysfunctional at NFISD.

On July 2, 2007, the brilliant Chief Justice Roberts said "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race" and the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the integration plans in school districts in Seattle and Louisville, Ky., that used race as a way to determine which schools students should attend.

Segregation stills happens naturally. Birds of a feather flocking together and all. The bigger problem is that HISD is unable to fix itself and the horrific problems of its schools. HISD is all about self-promotion and aelf-aggrandizement but knows nothing about accountability.

HISD has a culture problem. It embraces the culture of victimhood. It embraces the culture of nepotism. It embraces the culture of diversity and left-wing politics. It embraces the culture of money rather than education.

HISD is corrupt. Board member Kevin Hoffman is the epitome of what is wrong with HISD.

Too bad all the good teachers are leaving and segreagting themselves in other districts.

[hbcu]

HISD bent the rules and counted hispanics as whites during integration...their no better...

The NF we see now isn't the NF of old...I know some successful folks who came out the district...but they had pride then...if your school/district has pride, nine times out of 10 things change

[musicman]

"It embraces the culture of money rather than education. "

That's a terribly misleading label. ALL schools and school districts have to value money in order to stay afloat. Rather, it's mismanagement of money that is the problem.

What you mean to say is that HISD should be concerned about properly using taxpayer dollars. I know HISD has a problem with this because my teachers tell me about how there are too many administrators in HISD.

Anyway, it IS possible to get a good education in HISD (easier in elementary school, more difficult in middle and high school) so long as the parent is able to place his or her child in a good or excellent public school.

IMO HISD has changed to where money is more important than education. improperly using taxpayer dollars is another sign. the number of administrators has increased quite a bit in the last 30 yrs which results in the district needing more money. other programs have ballooned as well (free meals, bilingual ed, etc). would this be considered a mismanagement of money? how would it be described in your mind?

[Vertigo58]

This really is Houston's worse school district?

Wow what a switch!

They always used to blame the inner-city. So now North Houston stole the title. The winds of change are a blowing people.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Vertigo58

[VicMan]

I would say that increasing numbers of administrators is taxpayer waste - several of my high school teachers told me this!

I would coax at least some of the administrators into retiring and them promptly remove their positions.

Now, as for free breakfast, my feelings are mixed. One one hand, it could be used to get food for people who somehow do not qualify for free or reduced lunch, yet still have financial issues in their household (though I do not know how often this happens). On the other hand, I do not believe that many of the non-free reduced lunch kids (such as myself, prior to graduation) are interested in HISD breakfast food. Maybe HISD counts on the second idea as a way to reduce costs after establishing free breakfast, but I have no data about who eats free breakfast and which socioeconomic groups eat free breakfast.

As for bilingual programs, I guess whether this is considered a waste depends on one's position on bilingual education. By Texas law, bilingual education may only be in elementary school (notice the lack of bilingual students in middle and high school). I haven't made up my mind on whether bilingual education should be downscaled or increased - After reading Richard Geib's website, I had the impression that attitudes of the community regarding education were far more important than nitpicky discussions about curriculum.

I agree that the number of administrators should be trimmed in order to make a more efficient HISD.

IMO HISD has changed to where money is more important than education. improperly using taxpayer dollars is another sign. the number of administrators has increased quite a bit in the last 30 yrs which results in the district needing more money. other programs have ballooned as well (free meals, bilingual ed, etc). would this be considered a mismanagement of money? how would it be described in your mind?

Hey, Vertigo, Dallas had a similar issue. Even while Dallas ISD had corruption issues, the Wilmer-Hutchins ISD was considered to be the absolute worst district in Texas (as well as the DFW area). WHISD closed, and DISD assumed control of WHISD's territory.

This really is Houston's worse school district?

Wow what a switch!

They always used to blame the inner-city. So now North Houston stole the title. The winds of change are a blowing people.

Edited July 31, 2007 by VicMan

[musicman]

Now, as for free breakfast, my feelings are mixed. One one hand, it could be used to get food for people who somehow do not qualify for free or reduced lunch, yet still have financial issues in their household (though I do not know how often this happens). On the other hand, I do not believe that many of the non-free reduced lunch kids (such as myself, prior to graduation) are interested in HISD breakfast food. Maybe HISD counts on the second idea as a way to reduce costs after establishing free breakfast, but I have no data about who eats free breakfast and which socioeconomic groups eat free breakfast.

HISD gets money for having this program.

So you receive reduced lunch? how much do your parents make? do you know the salary ranges for the free vs reduced lunch programs?

As for bilingual programs, I guess whether this is considered a waste depends on one's position on bilingual education. By Texas law, bilingual education may only be in elementary school (notice the lack of bilingual students in middle and high school). I haven't made up my mind on whether bilingual education should be downscaled or increased - After reading Richard Geib's website, I had the impression that attitudes of the community regarding education were far more important than nitpicky discussions about curriculum.

HISD gets funding for doing this as well.

[VicMan]

1. I never received free/reduced lunch - At all of the schools I went to, most students paid full price for their lunches.

My father is an executive at an engineering company, so there is no way I qualify for any free/reduced lunch programs.

I do not know the exact salary ranges or formulas for free/reduced lunch, but I bet the information is on HISD's website.

EDIT: I found this: http://www.houstonisd.org/HISDConnectDS/v/...00052147fa6RCRD - But it doesn't say exactly who qualifies. It states that people must complete the process to be counted as free/reduced each school year.

HISD gets money for having this program.

So you receive reduced lunch? how much do your parents make? do you know the salary ranges for the free vs reduced lunch programs?

HISD gets funding for doing this as well.

Edited July 31, 2007 by VicMan

[sevfiv]

http://www.hisd.org/portal/site/FoodServic...00028147fa6RCRD

(click on "Free and Reduced-Price Meals")

Schools are required to serve meals at no charge to children whose household income is at or below 130 percent of the Federal poverty guidelines. Children are entitled to pay a reduced price (a maximum of 40 cents for lunch, 30 cents for breakfast and 15 cents for a snack) if their household income is above 130 percent but at or below 185 percent of these guidelines. . Children are automatically eligible for free school meals if their household receives food stamps, benefits under the Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations or, in most cases, benefits under the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program.

Children from families with incomes over 185 percent of poverty pay a full price, though their meals are still subsidized to some extent. Local school food authorities set their own prices for full-price (paid) meals, but must operate their meal services as non-profit programs.

After school snacks are provided to children on the same income eligibility basis as school meals. However, programs that operate in areas where at least 50 percent of students are eligible for free or reduced-price meals may serve all their snacks for free.

Edited July 31, 2007 by sevfiv

[musicman]

1. I never received free/reduced lunch - At all of the schools I went to, most students paid full price for their lunches.

My father is an executive at an engineering company, so there is no way I qualify for any free/reduced lunch programs.

I guess this statement confused me. i thought you paid, but got a reduced lunch.

I do not believe that many of the non-free reduced lunch kids (such as myself, prior to graduation)

Edited July 31, 2007 by musicman

[musicman]

Schools are required to serve meals at no charge to children whose household income is at or below 130 percent of the Federal poverty guidelines. Children are entitled to pay a reduced price (a maximum of 40 cents for lunch, 30 cents for breakfast and 15 cents for a snack) if their household income is above 130 percent but at or below 185 percent of these guidelines. . Children are automatically eligible for free school meals if their household receives food stamps, benefits under the Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations or, in most cases, benefits under the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program.

Children from families with incomes over 185 percent of poverty pay a full price, though their meals are still subsidized to some extent. Local school food authorities set their own prices for full-price (paid) meals, but must operate their meal services as non-profit programs.

After school snacks are provided to children on the same income eligibility basis as school meals. However, programs that operate in areas where at least 50 percent of students are eligible for free or reduced-price meals may serve all their snacks for free.

snacks? guess HISD wasn't in the snack biz when i was in school.

when i read something like this, i just cringe. there is so much non-reported income that i'm sure taxpayers are getting the shaft on this one.

[sevfiv]

snacks? guess HISD wasn't in the snack biz when i was in school.

when i read something like this, i just cringe. there is so much non-reported income that i'm sure taxpayers are getting the shaft on this one.

funny enough, a few questions down:

Do I need to send in proof of income when I apply?

You do NOT need to send in proof of income when applying. You do need to COMPLETELY fill out the application and return it to your child's school. You will receive notification from School Eligibility and Accountability if any other information is needed to process your application.

[musicman]

funny enough, a few questions down:

Do I need to send in proof of income when I apply?

You do NOT need to send in proof of income when applying. You do need to COMPLETELY fill out the application and return it to your child's school. You will receive notification from School Eligibility and Accountability if any other information is needed to process your application.

Vic...comments? i know i have some but would like to hear your take on this.

Edited July 31, 2007 by musicman

[VicMan]

Vic...comments? i know i have some but would like to hear your take on this.

I remembered hearing from a teacher at Fondren MS at a library computer class that some schools purposefully inflate free/reduced lunch numbers as a way to get more money from external sources. I am fine with mandatory income proof that must be submitted with the free/reduced lunch applications. Also, I would like to see policies of neighboring districts (See if I can find North Forest's) in order to tell if this problem is limited to HISD or if it is a problem in all Texas public schools.

EDIT: Kids, I could not find any information about free/reduced lunch at NFISD. Look at this google search: http://www.google.com/custom?domains=www.n...restschools.org

Spring Branch ISD does not say a lot about free/reduced - all it states is that it has applications: http://www.springbranchisd.com/admin/cn/school/free.htm

Edited July 31, 2007 by VicMan

[musicman]

I am fine with mandatory income proof that must be submitted with the free/reduced lunch applications.

mandatory proof of income isn't a requirement in HISD. is this improper use of funds? or are the $$ affecting HISD policy?

[VicMan]

mandatory proof of income isn't a requirement in HISD. is this improper use of funds? or are the $$ affecting HISD policy?

As far as I understand, the schools that exaggerate numbers of free/reduced price lunches do so to get more money from the U. S. Federal Government (The U.S. government sends money to schools with high numbers of free/reduced lunch kids as part of the Title I program) - I am not sure if this also gets additional money from the state.

I do not know if any schools do this or how many of them do this; perhaps an investigation that reveals cheating to get federal funds would make a good news article.

Edited July 31, 2007 by VicMan

[musicman]

As far as I understand, the schools that exaggerate numbers of free/reduced price lunches do so to get more money from the U. S. Federal Government

So back to my question. is this improper use of funds? or are the $$ affecting HISD policy?

[VicMan]

So back to my question. is this improper use of funds? or are the $$ affecting HISD policy?

This practice would be qualified as improper use of federal funds.

http://www.ctkidslink.org/testimony/022807...rnorsbudget.pdf

"Further, data show that concerns about the over-certification of students in the program have been

exaggerated. One research study shows that the number of children approved to receive free meals

exceeded the actual number of eligible children by just 2 percent, and that the number of children

certified to receive either free or reduced price meals was actually 15 percent lower than the number

of eligible children.

7

This suggests that greater dedication and resources directed to outreach may be

key to ensuring the validity of the free and reduced price meal count, more than additional funds for

increased income verification and audits"

This is what I mean.

Edited July 31, 2007 by VicMan

[musicman]

This practice would be qualified as improper use of federal funds.

This is what I mean.

IMO the organization you referenced really isn't a neutral party when speaking on this subject but i'll leave it at that. so do you feel this practice furthers a $$ culture in HISD? i.e. they are doing things because they can get money not cause it furthers education?

[GovernorAggie]

I was a reduced-lunch and breakfast kid until high school (40 cents and 30 cents respectively back then, too). I can remember my mom filling out forms and not sending in a W-2 or 1040 or anything, but that doesn't mean that she lied, either.

For that matter, I was also a free-breakfast-and-lunch-during-the-summer kid, too. Looking back on it, back then it wasn't bad--a way to keep kids fed during the day when parents had to go to work and no one could watch them but themselves. The food was terrible, but hey--it was free and you usally followed it up with some time at the playground or basketball court since it was nearby.

Everyone's not out to abuse the gov't. Unfortunately it's too easy to stereotype people. I was born to a mother who was still in high school (and was eligible for the Honor Society). And she's been married to my dad for 25 years now. So a normal, two-parent, stable household who had to use the federal programs for lunch for the young-uns. My dad has worked in the same factory for the last 10 years (he was at the last factory for 8) and my mom got her bachelors a couple years ago as the only minority graduating with honors.

North Forest is just like the school district I spent most of my time in--almost totally (95%) black and looking hopeless. However, North Forest's problem is not so much the administrators as much as its the parents (same for Cy Fair, HISD, KISD, and anyone else). Parents solve a school system.

Ok, rant over

[VicMan]

IMO the organization you referenced really isn't a neutral party when speaking on this subject but i'll leave it at that. so do you feel this practice furthers a $$ culture in HISD? i.e. they are doing things because they can get money not cause it furthers education?

I suspect that, yes, it does.

I do not know about the attitudes of the administrators within HISD's central administration, nor have I seen an article or another document extensively exploring the inner workings of the administration. I would imagine that at least a chunk of HISD's administration is more concerned about political power and money than on the actual education of children, just like with many large political systems (i.e. the City of Houston, Harris County, etc.). I know that teachers and principals are promoted to administration positions in the central HQ, so the individuals can easily spread the attitude once they become a part of the central HQ.

EDIT: Grammar fix

North Forest is just like the school district I spent most of my time in--almost totally (95%) black and looking hopeless. However, North Forest's problem is not so much the administrators as much as its the parents (same for Cy Fair, HISD, KISD, and anyone else). Parents solve a school system.

Ok, rant over

The parents are unable to elect administrators that at least have some competence of running a school district, then. This is all the more reason for a takeover. While NFISD schools will not become academic Ivy League bastions overnight, this will at least put the schools under the watch of a network of communities (stretching from Dairy Ashford to the industrial Eastside and from Minnetex to Northline Mall) that possess at least some semblance of oversight.

Edited July 31, 2007 by VicMan

[musicman]

I was a reduced-lunch and breakfast kid until high school (40 cents and 30 cents respectively back then, too). I can remember my mom filling out forms and not sending in a W-2 or 1040 or anything, but that doesn't mean that she lied, either.

For that matter, I was also a free-breakfast-and-lunch-during-the-summer kid, too. Looking back on it, back then it wasn't bad--a way to keep kids fed during the day when parents had to go to work and no one could watch them but themselves. The food was terrible, but hey--it was free and you usally followed it up with some time at the playground or basketball court since it was nearby.

Everyone's not out to abuse the gov't. Unfortunately it's too easy to stereotype people. I was born to a mother who was still in high school (and was eligible for the Honor Society). And she's been married to my dad for 25 years now. So a normal, two-parent, stable household who had to use the federal programs for lunch for the young-uns. My dad has worked in the same factory for the last 10 years (he was at the last factory for 8) and my mom got her bachelors a couple years ago as the only minority graduating with honors.

North Forest is just like the school district I spent most of my time in--almost totally (95%) black and looking hopeless. However, North Forest's problem is not so much the administrators as much as its the parents (same for Cy Fair, HISD, KISD, and anyone else). Parents solve a school system.

Ok, rant over

great post. no ranting whatsoever, just honesty. parents who don't care about their children's education is tragic and unfortunately is all too common. I was speaking with a teacher in HISD this past weekend and the stories he tells are unbelievable.

[VicMan]

great post. no ranting whatsoever, just honesty. parents who don't care about their children's education is tragic and unfortunately is all too common. I was speaking with a teacher in HISD this past weekend and the stories he tells are unbelievable.

Please invite him to discuss on this message board - I would like to hear his stories regarding the parents.

And, I heard that parents are often problems - At Waltrip High School some student and her mother assaulted a police officer over a truancy ticket - http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=...&id=4623585

My attitude that school districts ought to be controlled by parents who care about education and control the parents who do not care about education.