Home At 2200 Harvard St.

[JJxvi]

Your point might be valid if I didn't know that this exact lot (with a house on it that had to be demo'd) sold for $210,000 in 2006 which is $46 a foot+demo costs to get the bare piece of land before this house was built.  I doubt there are any sales ever in any year in the general vicinity of 22nd and Harvard that high.

[RedScare]

Boom

[Morrison]

Boom? Y'all need to take this delightful banter to the chron.com. You'll love it there.

[RedScare]

This banter reminds me of the Morrison condo debate. I drove up that street yeaterday. The Morrison condos are rather hidden behind trees and other multi-story townhomes. I cannot for the life of me understand how townhome dwellers on that street could be bothered by a condo development. Kind of like complaining about Walmart in the midst of a neighborhood of townhomes.

[s3mh]

Your point might be valid if I didn't know that this exact lot (with a house on it that had to be demo'd) sold for $210,000 in 2006 which is $46 a foot+demo costs to get the bare piece of land before this house was built.  I doubt there are any sales ever in any year in the general vicinity of 22nd and Harvard that high.

 

2219 Harvard sold for 299,900 in 2012.  It is on a 4675 sq ft lot.  That's $64 a sq ft.  308 E. 23rd sold for 231,000 on a 4100 sq ft lot.  That's $57 a sq ft.  Both of those were lot value sales.

 

But that metric is wholly irrelevant to the very subjective issue of which street is nicer to someone who is looking to plunk down 1 mil + on a custom modern home.  Price per sq ft on raw land is a metric that is only relevant to a builder and their margins.  It can vary significantly depending on what kind of product builders are doing in the area. 

 

Look at it this way:  Take the exact same house on Ridge.  Keep all things constant (city view, Travis schools, etc.), but build one on a street that is all single family residential and one that looks in on the butt end of a large condo complex.  Which property will get more on the market?  If you think that the one that is across the street from a large condo complex will have no effect on its value compared to one that is not, you are just being silly.

[SilverJK]

Nobody said that if the condos weren't next door it wouldn't be worth more...  If all things were the same and the condos weren't there it would be even MORE desirable of a location.  (kinda like that awesome house over by the former king biscuit on White Oak that has the awesome city views... I'm sure it would go for a crazy premium).

 

The ridge home location is more desirable, despite being next to multifamily (ridge apartments).   It isn't like those white oak condos are crack houses or anything either... they might be the cheapest way to live in the heights, but they still run ~150k for the 2BR with joining bath.  Not like the view of a 8packs of 3 stories would be better...

 

 

The view offsets the neighbors.

[RedScare]

Look at it this way:  Take the exact same house on Ridge.  Keep all things constant (city view, Travis schools, etc.), but build one on a street that is all single family residential and one that looks in on the butt end of a large condo complex.  Which property will get more on the market?  If you think that the one that is across the street from a large condo complex will have no effect on its value compared to one that is not, you are just being silly.

 

Translation: I think that the house and lot on 22nd is a better deal. Therefore, anyone's opinion that the house and lot on Ridge is better is silly.

 

And you wonder why we mock you so.  

[SilverJK]

Red... your being an extremist.  

 

S3mh will soon tell you that (as a matter of fact / everyone knows / the majority / the neighborhood / we) all agree that he is right, and you are in the minority opinion... facts be damned.

[JJxvi]

2219 Harvard was never marketed as lot value. Has the house been torn down? My understanding is that its been renovated. And its sold again for less than that in the interim.

 

308 E 23rd also not marketed as a lot value sale. Has it been torn down?

 

Unless these get torn down and redeveloped, both of these sales included improvement value. Based on the pictures of these homes I find it absurd that either of these were lot value sales.

[s3mh]

Nobody said that if the condos weren't next door it wouldn't be worth more...  If all things were the same and the condos weren't there it would be even MORE desirable of a location.  (kinda like that awesome house over by the former king biscuit on White Oak that has the awesome city views... I'm sure it would go for a crazy premium).

 

The ridge home location is more desirable, despite being next to multifamily (ridge apartments).   It isn't like those white oak condos are crack houses or anything either... they might be the cheapest way to live in the heights, but they still run ~150k for the 2BR with joining bath.  Not like the view of a 8packs of 3 stories would be better...

 

 

The view offsets the neighbors.

 

There is very little if any premium for houses on White Oak with city views.  Those city views come with a front seat to I-10 road noise and nightly softball games at Stude park.  It is a wash if anything.  The condos aren't a ghetto, but they are pretty ugly and will probably just crumble given the low ass'n fees.  And the multifamily next door is another big risk given recent developments in the neighborhood. 

 

I think the Ridge house will get a smidge more just because the architecture is a bit more mainstream modern.  But, the crappiness of the location is going to make it very close.  Houston's skyline is pretty bland and not worth it when you also have to look out onto a parking lot and junky condos.

[SilverJK]

There is very little if any premium for houses on White Oak with city views.  Those city views come with a front seat to I-10 road noise and nightly softball games at Stude park.  It is a wash if anything.  The condos aren't a ghetto, but they are pretty ugly and will probably just crumble given the low ass'n fees.  And the multifamily next door is another big risk given recent developments in the neighborhood. 

 

I think the Ridge house will get a smidge more just because the architecture is a bit more mainstream modern.  But, the crappiness of the location is going to make it very close.  Houston's skyline is pretty bland and not worth it when you also have to look out onto a parking lot and junky condos.

 

If by crappiness of the location you mean great location with a few drawbacks... ok.

 

White Oak on the east side of Watson most definitely has a premium (the west side does as well... but the east side's is much more obvious).  A majority of the White Oak houses don't even have front access to enhance the view and setting.  You are just pulling things from out of nowhere now.  Most people do not share your view on Houston's skyline either (not to mention what it will look like after 2014).  Just because you think the harvard street location is better... you don't have to make things up to justify your opinion.  For someone who cares so much about controlling what can be built within site of their home, you don't seem hold any value to one of the best views in town?  Yes you can look DOWN and see condos, but that doesn't change how awesome the views are.

[HoustonMidtown]

 Houston's skyline is pretty bland and not worth it when you also have to look out onto a parking lot and junky condos.

 

Do you really believe the stuff you are continually blabbering about on here? 

 

I just found out I can block you......finally.....

[s3mh]

Do you really believe the stuff you are continually blabbering about on here? 

 

I just found out I can block you......finally.....

 

Houston has a bland skyline.  It is true.  It isn't ugly.  But the west facing skyline is mostly modern/post modern stuff.  Go anywhere else in the US and show someone a picture of our skyline.  9-10 people wouldn't be able to name the city. 

 

And why would you want to block me?  Because I am not in line with the anti-community/pro-developer meme that permeates this message board?  Are people on HAIF so thin skinned that they cannot handle opposing viewpoints?  What are you afraid of?

[JJxvi]

LMAO. You are unreal!

 

[TGM]

Houston has a bland skyline. It is true.

Jean Michel Jarre disagrees, and those of us that lived here at that time strongly disagree.

Every time I hear Houston's unofficial theme song it sends shivers up my spine.

[JJxvi]

Real estate in Houston, TX is not generally in direct marketing competition where Property A has the Houston skyline, Property B has a view of New York Skyline, and Property C shows the Shanghai skyline.  It is in competition with other property in Houston that has no downtown view at all.  In addition it is not marketed to people who cant "name that skyline!" but to people who LIVE IN HOUSTON and know which city the buildings that they see outside the window of the property their realtor is showing them that day.

[SilverJK]

Even people who didn't know the city would say it looks appealing...  S3mh being s3mh.

[TGM]

Even people who didn't know the city would say it looks appealing... S3mh being s3mh.

It's one of those things you hear from people who arrive here due to their spouse being transferred to the Houston office. Home was always better, and waking up everyday in Houston just makes them bitter, resentful, and lonely. And then one day they discover Haif...

[RedScare]

s3mh has made the leap from Full of flurf to full on troll. Few respected your opinions before, but when you attempt to call one of America's great skylines "bland", you've gone into full troll mode. So, what is a good skyline...Portland?

[JJxvi]

I got the impression that he likes his skyscrapers like he likes his bungalows...made in the 1920's.

[s3mh]

Real estate in Houston, TX is not generally in direct marketing competition where Property A has the Houston skyline, Property B has a view of New York Skyline, and Property C shows the Shanghai skyline.  It is in competition with other property in Houston that has no downtown view at all.  In addition it is not marketed to people who cant "name that skyline!" but to people who LIVE IN HOUSTON and know which city the buildings that they see outside the window of the property their realtor is showing them that day.

 

I am not saying that the skyline is ugly or that a skyline view in Houston is a bad thing.  I am just saying that it isn't desirable enough to be worth the view of the cruddy condo complex.  It is a wash.  For 1.6 mil, you can do much better if you want a skyline view.

 

Skyline views just do not move expensive properties in Houston.  Look at this view:  http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=71469752&v=s

Way better view than on Ridge.  But this has been sitting on the market since January.  If Houston had such a spectacular skyline, people would be lining up for this.  But, they are not. 

 

Really, the moral of the story is that ultra modern custom homes at this price point are hard to sell because most people in that market segment can afford to build their own.  The whole fun of these moderns is to work with an architect to put in your own special little touches so you can show them off to your friends.  I know someone who is renting one inside the loop because the owner/architect couldn't sell it (energy housing stipends can be a lot of fun). 

[RedScare]

Your credibility level on this forum is right around zero. You should stay on Swamplot, where only half the posters think you are a troll.

[JJxvi]

RE: the house on Dart. Theres a good example on how clean view of the skyline can affect value. Its a 4000 SF lot, was on the market in 2003 with the ability to build a house on it that features the spectacular skyline view.  The lot was purchased in Dec 2003 for $150,000, or $37.50 a foot and that house was built on it to exploit that quality of the location.

 

There is a house on Colorado St (built 1930, not kept up, very dilapidated and boarded up when it was on the market, etc) that is on the northwest side of its particular block, with no guarantee that the land directly south of them would not someday block the view. (and in fact in the interim 3 story townhomes have been built just southeast of this property) The agent noted on the listing that it was being marketed at lot value only.   This lot at 5000 SF, a mere 2 blocks away from the house on Dart sold for $75,000, or $15/SF in October of 2003.  In fact both properties were on the market together for a substantial period during 2003. 

 

The Colorado house, in your estimation, is probably in a superior location, being surrounded by residential lots instead of directly across the street from industrial like the Dart lot is.  However, the skyline view potential of the Dart lot represented a 150% markup in the value of the lot on Dart.  I don't care what type of ugly condo, or apartments, or anything beyond being next to a boarded up building with signs that say "get crack here" that a house or lot could possibly be next to, but it ain't affecting the value of the land by 150% like the skyline view can.   The real world does seem not work in the ways you say it does.

[JJxvi]

Also all 1.5 million dollar homes are hard to sell, because having that cash means you have lots of other options and because there are a mere handful of people looking to buy at any one time with that kind of cash. But the data on how skyline affects raw land and how it affects condos and town homes that are almost identical except for view is indisputable.

[barracuda]

I am not saying that the skyline is ugly or that a skyline view in Houston is a bad thing.  I am just saying that it isn't desirable enough to be worth the view of the cruddy condo complex.  It is a wash.  For 1.6 mil, you can do much better if you want a skyline view.

 

Skyline views just do not move expensive properties in Houston.  Look at this view:  http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=71469752&v=s

Way better view than on Ridge.  But this has been sitting on the market since January.  If Houston had such a spectacular skyline, people would be lining up for this.  But, they are not. 

 

The skyline view is clearly a selling feature of the house on Dart. That said, that area is very transitional, and most of the new neighbors are moderately-priced town homes that are nowhere near the $1.5M range. You said that ground-level views are very important. Well, the house on Dart house overlooks a parking lot surrounded by a barbed wire fence. That and the high price relative to the neighborhood are probably the reasons it is still on the market. 

[JJxvi]

Any place with a semblance of skyline view and the realtor always gets that shot, and sometimes many shots to put on the listing. Sm3h has admitted as much earlier claiming that the views were exaggerated by the realtor. And how many shots of 2200 Harvard show street views of the surrounding neighborhood that is so desirable? Surely the realtor would want to put something as grand as that in?

[Morrison]

Redscare- I am not sure what debate you are referring to but I know you aren't talking about the 5 story plus 6th story rooftop deck condo building going in on my street. First, what trees do you believe obscure the Morrison condos? All of the trees on that lot were cleared before construction began. There are no trees. Second, what townhouses are you referring to? Yes, there are townhouses on Houston Ave, behind the Morrison condos and yes there is one townhouse lot comprising two townhouses around the bend on Morrison. So, there are a total of two townhouses on Morrison, and they are not contiguous to the condos. But even still, even if there were trees on that site which obscured the condos and even if all of the residences around it were townhouses, what's your point?

[RedScare]

Tell you what. Rather than debate you, where you play word games to make it sound worse than it is, I'll just take a few photos next time I decide to go down that street. It may be a surprise to you, but 99.9% of Houstonians never drive down Morrison street, and 99% don't even know where it is. The only hope of having anyone give a rat's arse about this discussion is to give them a couple of pics.

[Morrison]

I don't care to debate you. That's your thing.

If you are going to mock me and my neighbors for not wanting a five story plus sixth story rooftop deck condo building erected by a less than honest builder, be accurate when doing so.

FYI- assuming my photo attached, this is a shot of the framing of the first two stories- three more plus a rooftop deck are still coming. Note the single family home.

[RedScare]

I don't care to debate you. That's your thing.

If you are going to mock me and my neighbors for not wanting a five story plus sixth story rooftop deck condo building erected by a less than honest builder, be accurate when doing so.

FYI- assuming my photo attached, this is a shot of the framing of the first two stories- three more plus a rooftop deck are still coming. Note the single family home.

 

I was mistaken. It is not full of townhomes. Morrison Street is full of massive new builds, commonly called "McVictorians", a few townhomes and apartment buildings, with a few old houses sprinkled throughout. Frankly, this condo project fits on this street moreso than any other street in Woodland Heights.

 

But, since you don't want to debate me, I'll keep my mouth shut. Google maps can talk for me.