Cypress Independence?

[JustinUther]

I hear people who say Cypress should get together and establish itself. I hear those who think the idea is crazy. What would be the pro's and con's?

PRO - Local government in touch with community

CON - No voice in COH government (none right now)

PRO - ? any ideas?

CON - ? any ideas?

Please be constructive and objective. I'm interested in facts and informed opinions. Avoid derogatory statements such as "that's stupid".

[CDeb]

Avoid derogatory statements such as "that's stupid"

That'll keep the thread short.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

That'll keep the thread short.

[VicMan]

Cypress may not incorporated unless it gets Houston's permission.

[Avabamse]

So if I tell you "that's stupid" and I mean it factually, I guess it's okay for me to type it then, huh? Factual is different than derogatory.

Look for everyone who hates the evil nemesis of the City of Houston, please pull your money together and purchase a pretty chunk of land out in the middle of the country. You all can rule over the land and not let any evil people live there (i.e. apartment dwellers; immigrants; those of an opposite political persuasion of yours - if you can come to a common agreement there; people who wear green shirts; dog lovers; road haters; accountants; strip mall shoppers; etc). You can even call the town Me-ville. Oops, I didn't mean to make it sound like the word evil. What a coincidence!

I just cannot understand why people complain and complain ~ justin, perhaps this does not apply to you ~ after they *choose* to purchase a home in a certain neighborhood / geographical section of town. Did you not research where you are going to live prior to moving there? Did you move in the McMansion and say "Damn! I forgot to make sure ZZZ area was incorporated so evil Houston couldn't hurt me. boo-hoo."?

Please explain this fascination of incorporating Cypress or wherever else to me... in logical, non-derogatory terms. All I hear is let's incorporate, let's incorporate, let's incorporate out of a few folks, but nobody has yet presented a case as to what your expected end goal / result is. Incorporation does not instantly make you the Woodlands. (And yes, Mr Football, everyone hates the Woodlands except those who live there. I'm certain you can ban those people from Me-ville too.) If you want a voice in a government, then find the current, realistic path and work on it rather than waste everyone else's time by you writing a few lines on this forum. Pick up the phone, type your email, knock on the door of your Harris County commissioner's office if you want to affect change.

Yet, please figure out what change you want first.

~*~*~*~

JustinUther - I respect that you are trying to generate dialogue on this forum. Unfortunately, this topic has been previously brought up with very little focus other than to gripe about a large city next door.

For those of you out there that have traveled extensively (domestically or internationally), we all realize that all big cities (and I mean ALL) have there negatives, but hell, there would be zero suburbs / xburbs without the city as a core job center - look no further to the deterioration of the Detroit area considering the high quality, research universities in the state. Even within our own state, D/FW is strong as a metro area, but many people worry about the erosion of the urban core of Dallas and the potential impact of this for the region. Customarily, this erosion is a reflection on local city / region leadership, which can translate in the leadership's ability to govern effectively and attract new business or industry.

[Double L]

In the end, reorganizing the city government boundaries is managemement of resources and representation. Making Cypress it's own city would mean more resources and representation for Cypress and yet less resources for Houston. So in the end the larger amount of people living in Houston will be disenfranchised and the few in Cypress will benefit. However, Cypress is attaining economic growth and further expanded public infrastructure investment. So if it ain't broke don't fix it. I see no reason why Cypress should need to control it's own city government when the city of Houston has proven perfectly effective in managing the local assets itself. Unless you have a operational reason why this would benefit people accross the entire metropolitan area I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[JustinUther]

The obvious question has been asked. "Why bother?" I have seen this topic in earlier threads. They usually devolve to the point of name calling. Those who live in Houston who say that they love it the way it is and everyone else should too. Those in the Cypress area who say that they would like to see some restraint in development and maybe have their penny sales tax that is being collected where they shop close to their homes actually spent on the local community. I read posts by those who used to live in Cypress but moved for one reason or another and talk about the "good ol' days".

I wonder if we can discuss the why (would the benefit the residents or not) and not the how (ETJ, COH's permission etc.). Everybody is aware that it would be difficult but the question is, "Is this worth the effort?". This isn't a case of "I want to do this so you need to all agree to follow me.", rather should this happen how would it change the community? I actually haven't decided which would be better, local self rule or representation on the city council.

[TheNiche]

Making Cypress it's own city would mean more resources and representation for Cypress and yet less resources for Houston. So in the end the larger amount of people living in Houston will be disenfranchised and the few in Cypress will benefit.

Houston doesn't tax its ETJ. Services are almost entirely provided by MUDs and the County.

Citizens of a reincorportated Cypress would probably opt out as a METRO constituent, saving them money, removing themselves from future referendums, and creating an incentive for developers to build commercial retail within the Cypress city limits (which would be immensely important, considering that Houston only ever annexes commercial property in that area and isn't going to ever let it go). The rest of the City of Houston, its ETJ, and other METRO constituents would have more of a say on transportation matters, and their populations would become more enfranchised.

And right now, residents of the ETJ don't vote for Houston officials. So removing any amount of the ETJ would not dilute a Houstonian's representation in any way.

However, Cypress is attaining economic growth and further expanded public infrastructure investment. So if it ain't broke don't fix it. I see no reason why Cypress should need to control it's own city government when the city of Houston has proven perfectly effective in managing the local assets itself.

Public infrastructure investments are coming primarily from the private sectors by way of MUDs. The City of Houston most certainly is not managing local assets in any form.

[TheNiche]

"Is this worth the effort?"

The City of Houston has less of a reason to forbid the reincorporation of a City of Cypress than do the residents of the proposed City. Such a municipality would have to pay off a lot of new MUDs, provide basic city services (and for this population, "basic" probably means something along the lines of Bellaire quality), and do so on a tax base that is missing any substantial commercial component. The property taxes could be astronomical.

There is little doubt that a City of Cypress could produce benefit, but I'm not convinced that those living there would consider it worth the additional taxes that they'd have to pay.

[mrfootball]

Cypress was incorporated up until 1989. The area has grown tremendously since then adding the equivalent of several Woodlands and featuring equivalent demographics. Many want to see it reincorporated. If you've followed what has occured since the Kingwood annexation and what is currently going on with the Woodlands, then you know the environment's changing with regards to suburban government, both on a local level and a state level. I've seen posters (who do not live in the CYP) here saying that people should just accept the status quo with regards to government, an entirely ignorant position, IMO - wherever you might live.

[TheNiche]

Cypress was incorporated up until 1989. The area has grown tremendously since then adding the equivalent of several Woodlands and featuring equivalent demographics. Many want to see it reincorporated. If you're following what's going on in The Woodlands, then you know the environment's changing with regards to suburban government, both on a local level and a state level. I've seen posters (who do not live in the CYP) here saying that people should just accept the status quo with regards to government, an entirely ignorant position, IMO.

Demographics are a double-edged sword. On the one hand, they're great for building a commercial base, but on the other, the City of Houston has all the commercial land. Everything else is residential, and residential is high-maintenance, both on the infrastructure and services side.

Frankly, I think that about the only thing you'd get out of incorporation that MUDs and HOAs couldn't take on right now if they really wanted to would be the ability to dictate by land use controls what property owners could do, especially with respect to forested properties. But I don't think that Cypress area residents are going to be willing to pay the premium for such a small item on the agenda. It would be particularly hard to get owners of homes in older neighborhoods to be willing to take on the MUD debt of newer subdivisions. The issue would become politically fractured, even among folks that otherwise like the idea of being incorporated. It just isn't realistic.

To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying as a Houstonian that Cypress area residents should accept the status quo, but that they will most likely choose to of their own free and informed volition.

[mrfootball]

You can incorporate an area and still opt to use county services.

With respect to land-use, it is by no means a small item on the agenda out here where it is predominately families and homesteads.

With respect to Commercial areas - they aren't all inside the limited annexation areas, and while it certainly is an issue today, down the road, its not as big of an issue as you might think

To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying as a Houstonian that Cypress area residents should accept the status quo, but that they will most likely choose to of their own free and informed volition.

Lastly, the question is...do they have any free will when trapped in limbo in an incorporated area of an ETJ, with no voice, with nobody to represent them, and nowhere to go to when they have a problem? I don't think Houston wants the added responsibility of managing this area, nor does it want several hundred thousand pissed off voters (think Kingwood x 4). The County model simply cannot handle this. Seems as if residents would have more free will and representation if they controlled the future of their own community, electing officials who live there and are directly accountable to the residents.

[MidtownCoog]

Freewill, independence, trapped...

You sound a bit paranoid. Time for a Tea Party?

Why can't anyone list a single benefit of a City of Cypress?

[TheNiche]

You can incorporate an area and still opt to use county services.

So in other words, screw the folks living in older neighborhoods by saddling them with the MUD debt of newer neighborhoods, and not provide them their own autonomous city services.

With respect to land-use, it is by no means a small item on the agenda out here where it is predominately families and homesteads.

It may be a point of contention, but so is money. It doesn't grow on trees.

With respect to Commercial areas - they aren't all inside the limited annexation areas, and while it certainly is an issue today, down the road, its not as big of an issue as you might think

The most substantial commercial areas, such as along FM 1960, have been annexed. That is a big problem. If you believe otherwise, please explain your position.

Lastly, the question is...do they have any free will when trapped in limbo in an incorporated area of an ETJ, with no voice, with nobody to represent them, and nowhere to go to when they have a problem? I don't think Houston wants the added responsibility of managing this area, nor does it want several hundred thousand pissed off voters (think Kingwood x 4). The County model simply cannot handle this. Seems as if residents would have more free will and representation if they controlled the future of their own community, electing officials who live there and are directly accountable to the residents.

Of course they have free will. The Woodlands is in a couple different ETJs and is nothing more than an MPC with a bunch of MUDs, HOAs, and a management district serving it, but it very clearly has a voice. Find your voice: hire a lawyer.

[mrfootball]

So Mayor Niche says it might be a good idea for Cypress residents, but won't happen.

They said that about the Woodlands too, last year.

We'll see what happens in the Legislative session.

Why can't anyone list a single benefit of a City of Cypress?

Do you really need it spelled out for you?

[MidtownCoog]

Where would downtown Cypress be?

That area is so big it has no sense of place.

[mrfootball]

These questions will all be addressed by the Exploratory committee.

I'm curious why there are so many non-Cypress residents voicing their opposition, knowing that Houston doesn't want to annex - why would you care what people in Cypress do?

[MidtownCoog]

Who said no? But you have to wonder if it failed the first time...

Is this is a real exploratory committee or a figment of your imagination?

[mrfootball]

Who said no? But you have to wonder if it failed the first time...

Is this is a real exploratory committee or a figment of your imagination?

It never failed. Reincorporation hasn't been proposed yet.

If you're referring to the Cy-Fair Improvement District, it was narrowly defeated 51% to 49% the FIRST time it was ever proposed. If it were introduced again, it would likely pass. Still, this isn't what's being explored.

Some of the reasons people want to incorporate are as follows:

1) Representation - big area, significant population, little representation. Cypress needs a voice to make sure it gets what it needs with regards to transportation, services, infrastructure etc.

2) Development - fast growing area needs some regulation to keep it nice, attractive and protect the property values of its residents. Retaining Livability and Greenspaces are a major part of the character of Cypress and we hope to preserve it.

3) Identity - Sense of community pride, sense of place, marketability

4) Services - Have a place to go when you have a complaint or a problem. As it stands now, the Harris County precinct system is cumbersome and complex, they're not equipped to serve residents very well, counties do not have ordinance making authority. Harris county has a 'template' approach to doing things that while it may be good for one area, may not be good for another.

[JustinUther]

Just a quick example, one of my neighbors had concerns that he said the City of Cypress should address. I had to inform him that there was no "city" for him to take his voice to. Of course, he imediately stated that we needed to fix that issue first. Thast would be an advantage of incorporation.

I'm not sure yet if that is the answer. While it sounds good, I think it needs some investigation before jumping in with both feet.

[RedScare]

Just a quick example, one of my neighbors had concerns that he said the City of Cypress should address.

I don't think incorporation will have any effect at all on the ignorance of your neighbor.

[TheNiche]

So Mayor Niche says it might be a good idea for Cypress residents, but won't happen.

No, you grossly misrepresented my input. I didn't voice any opinion that it might or might not be a good idea for anybody. I just made observations, and I tried to keep them detached and objective because this thread can very easily go downhill and become counterproductive if someone starts making snarky comments.

[wakester]

As a resident of the Cypress area, I would just like to tell the people of Houston :

"Let my people free"

Actually, with the communities going in here, the Grand Parkway, and a future commuter rail line, I could see this becoming another business center. Which is a bad thing since right now I can sit in my backyard and look to the West and see a sky full of stars. That won't last for long.

[JustinUther]

Actually, with the communities going in here, the Grand Parkway, and a future commuter rail line, I could see this becoming another business center. Which is a bad thing since right now I can sit in my backyard and look to the West and see a sky full of stars. That won't last for long.

Many people feel the same way. I think it would be nice to have some control to restrain the development. It is good to have shopping, office space and even some industry close to home. It gives people with skills and services to offer places to work without fighting in traffic daily.

This could be a PRO on the list. A City of Cypress could establish zoning. This would help keep residents' feeling of country comfort. Commercial and industrial activities could be encouraged to bring their business to Cypress. Under zoning controls buffer zones could be set up between residential areas and places of business. A city can not really be independent unless it can attract business for its citizens. Local industry provides employment opportunity. The industrial park south of 290 on Telge is a good example.

[Avabamse]

You guys seem to be missing one key point in this grandiose discussion... how big of an area would the fancifully, reincorporated City of Cypress be? Any guess on square miles? I'm betting we are talking about only 10-20 sq mi tops.

Check out these two items...

1. The Handbook of Texas Online says there were few than 100 residents at the time of incorporation. I could not locate a map of Cypress (even off of a Houston map) because it was just a blip.

2. My rendering of what the City of Cypress most likely was in 1989 (when it went poof!)

So when everyone is lumping in the land from northwest of Katy to the appx area of Klein and south of Tomball, this is a gross overstatement. "Downtown Cypress" was not much of anything and, hence, the landowners / residents decided that incorporation was a waste of time. And, no, the City of Houston is not to blame here either. If you want a reasonable comparison of blessed Cypress, look no further northwest of you at Hockley and then let me know how great that incorporated city is worth.

PS - You are not the Woodlands or Sugar Land or Pearland or Katy. You are not even Tomball or Humble or Kemah. Just face it - you are a bedroom community without any sense of place or industry. The Woodlands, Sugar Land and Katy each have this and there will not be a place for this in Cypress off of 290 because of the way things are being built out.

Hello, reality!

[JustinUther]

... a municipality would have to pay off a lot of new MUDs, provide basic city services ....

CON - The MUD and Water District's debts would have to be assumed by the new city.

...do so on a tax base that is missing any substantial commercial component. The property taxes could be astronomical.

Neutral - Residents are already paying taxes to the MUDs. If the debt were assumed then it is concievable that Utilities Taxes could actually be reduced. By having all the water, sewer, drainage and garbage together and run by the city it would provide transperant accountability to the residents and reduce the cost accociated with duplication of administration. Combining all MUDs and Water districts into a single "COC Utillities" to facilitate development and maintenance would also balance the taxes throughout the city by averaging the cost to all users. (I know what you want to say now, the older subdivisions will get the raw end of this deal. The neighborhood I live in was established over 30 years ago and we still have wter taxes that I consider high to pay for up keep and new development.)

PRO - Sales tax collected by the city could be used to subsidize the utilities.

CON - ...the City of Houston has all the commercial land. Everything else is residential, and residential is high-maintenance, both on the infrastructure and services side.

PRO - ... ability to dictate by land use controls what property owners could do, especially with respect to forested properties.

Thanks for the informative obsrvations Niche.

JU

[JustinUther]

So when everyone is lumping in the land from northwest of Katy to the appx area of Klein and south of Tomball, this is a gross overstatement. "Downtown Cypress" was not much of anything and, hence, the landowners / residents decided that incorporation was a waste of time.

Avabamse, please stay on topic and re-read my opening post. There is another thread started for your comments (but I can't help from making one quick comment).

I do believe that most people who want this don't really care where the old city limits were but are going on the concept of where Cypress feels like it should be. I'll pop over to the other thread to comment on where I think the boundaries should be if "New" Cypress ever becomes a reality.

[mrfootball]

Avabamse, thank you for your worthless commentary.

Why should you get all riled up about what the people in Cypress want? Either you're just an ass or you act as though you have a stake in it.

What's it to you?

As for not being Sugar Land. We don't want to be Sugar Land. They've got their own issues. And The Woodlands? We would've chosen The Woodlands had we wanted to live there. It's the same demographic here as in The Woodlands - only more here. We're pretty happy with Cypress and the variety of choices it offers, we just want to see the good things preserved, have a voice, and local rule. We'll see what happens.

[MidtownCoog]

Maybe y'all should try to start with a chamber of commerece.

[cynative]

Got one...........Cy-Fair Chamber has been around for years and years.