713 To 214

I respect your opinion.

I stand by my statements. Anyone who'd like to evaluate the projects from here on can look at the two websites. Now, I believe the topic of discussion for this thread is supposed to be Victory compared to Pavillions. Anyone else who feels compelled to pull other projects from Midtown (i.e. Greenway Plaza), the Galleria Area, Woodlands, Galveston, etc, etc. into the discussion, please just start another comparison thread. Thanks in advance.

No firm start date as of yet. However, the voters just recently approved (last November) the bonds that will be used to fund the City's portion of the project. Additionally, February 20th the development team will hold an open house/input meeting with Uptown residents to discuss issues affecting their neighborhood, and to get an idea of what design elements/amenities they'd like to see in the park. It's all being discussed here.

1st of all, it's obvious that you just want to argue this point for argument's sake. So, I won't indulge you too much further with this. I will just stae that the more you attempt to compare the Greenway Plaza project to the Victory project, you look more and more silly, extremely biased, and "blinded" to the reality of the situation. You may be able to pass that comparison off on people who have never seen both projects. However, you're dealing with someone who has intimate knowledge of both of these projects, and cities for that matter. Besides, for those willing to take a real objective look at the two projects. . .there is really no comparison (outside of land area). I'm sorry to break it to you, but, a food court, a jewelry store, and a few other local "mom & pop" shops in Greenway (i.e. "Car Butler") don't even come close to the unique retail tenant mix of national and international brands set to occupy Victory. Additionally, there is no nightlife in Greenway Plaza (and the movie theater doesn't count). All one has to do is visit either project on any given weekend night and he/she will observe the STARK contrast between the two. There is no real residential that's part of the Greenway project, either. . .a major difference. But, don't take my word for it. Compare them for yourselves. http://www.victorypark.com/ http://www.greenwayplaza.com/ ^Isn't that internet amazing?

He must be thinking about the food court inside!

Some people want rail, others want a bus. Some people want a Richmond alignment, others want a different one. This rail expansion looks so messy, right now, and it sends a bad message to congress. The message being sent is that everyone isn't on the same page, and not in support of 1 plan. How can METRO expect to get funding from the feds under those circumstances? This is sad. The way it stands now, it won't matter where/when they break ground. . .and it won't matter what they're breaking ground for. . .bus or rail. Someone's going to file a lawsuit, get injunctive relief, and hold the process up for years, anyway. . .just like with the starter line. The leaders of this City (state/local reps, council members, METRO Board) need to be locked in a hotel room this weekend, and not be released until they can emerge with one consensus plan.

I don't think it's about have and have-nots. Your comments are misplaced and misleading. If TSU administrators had access to more money, they would have just mismanaged and pilfered that money too. Quite frankly, I think your comment is representative of the types of excuses used by TSU Administrators and the school's "blind" supporters. I alluded to this in an earlier post. The school will never improve as long as the "we're just being picked on because we're a black school" excuses are brought up every time legitimate problems are raised.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=...&id=4972336 taken from the story And as we first reported Tuesday, the school's tennis program has been suspended after allegations of unpaid scholarships. Many players claim they were promised a full ride by the tennis coach, but never saw a cent. ^How embarrassing!

It'll never happen!

Distinction noted and well taken.

Sorry, but WNBA doesn't count. lol. I know that you want it to because it would give Houston 3 more championships [pauses to stop laughter ] but it just doesn't qualify as a major sport. I'm afraid NASCAR, and PGA would rank far above and beyond the WNBA in attendance, sponsorship dollars, and television ratings. . .and while we're on the subject of NASCAR, lets not forget the DFW Metroplex has the Texas Motor Speedway too. So, I guess that would make six.

Your statement, on its face, appears. . .well, rather prejudiced. However, I understand where you're coming from. Here's my take on it. Part of the school's mission is to provide an opportunity for a higher education to students who would otherwise not get such an opportunity. Those students can and do come from all over the country and the world, no matter what race, color or creed. However, a vast majority are black and come from Texas. Instead of raising the standards of the school in order to compete with the best of the best, I think the common attitude of the administration (with few exception) is to use the fact that "it's a black school" as a crutch and excuse not to do better. IMHO, TSU, for the better part of the past two decades, has been existence to benefit a small few, at the expense of a great many who deserve better.

That's an ignorant statement! One doesn't have to be black to attend. In fact, there are a number of students representing different races, creeds, and colors, currently in attendance. I'm sure that you would be accepted if you applied. The point however, is that regardless of who attends, the culture of corruption and mismanagement is pervasive throughout the administration of the school, and is continuously reflected in embarrassing ways (i.e. nationally reported scandals, abysmal bar/board passage rates, low graduation rates, sub-standard facilities, etc.) disclaimer: I am not an Alumnist of this school, and have no interest in it other than to stop reading about its embarrassing stories over and over again. <supplemental edit>

For the past 25 years Texas Southern University has been a joke. The school has no real admission standards (no ACT or SAT required for entry), its administrators are constantly caught up in verifiable scandal, and the school is constantly in financial trouble. The article below id further evidence of this. The alumni who have gone on to succeed after graduation have probably done so IN SPITE OF, rather than because of the value of a Texas Southern University Degree. Barbara Jordan would be outraged and probably hanging her head low right now. I challenge all TSU alumni, administrators, faculty, students, and Houstonians in general to show some pride and demand better from this institution, otherwise I'm all for a "hostile takeover" by U of H or another state school. Drastic times call for drastic measures. ______________________________________________________________________________ Jan. 26, 2007, 12:58AM Perry orders regents to fix TSU finances 'Not happy' with the officials, governor gives them up to 45 days to plan By POLLY ROSS HUGHES AND MATTHEW TRESAUGUE Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle AUSTIN — Startled by the depth of Texas Southern University's multimillion-dollar financial woes, Gov. Rick Perry has ordered its board of regents to start making "tough decisions" to fix the problems or resign. "It can't be a Mickey Mouse deal," Perry spokesman Robert Black told the Houston Chronicle on Thursday. "It can't be a Band-Aid." In private meetings last week, Perry demanded that TSU's regents come up with a concrete plan within 30-45 days to start fixing problems plaguing the university's finances this year. Next week, the terms of three of TSU's nine regents expire, giving Perry the opportunity to name new members. Perry also plans to announce a blue-ribbon panel that will develop a long-term plan for TSU, including defining its academic mission. One fear, which the governor's office said it hopes to avoid, is that TSU would be merged into another university. Houston Democrats Sen. Rodney Ellis and Rep. Garnet Coleman underscored the importance of protecting the historically black university and keeping it independent. They noted its long history in shaping Houston's black middle class. "TSU is in the neighborhood where I grew up. It isn't just an institution I represent," Coleman said. "It's more than that. TSU represents some of the best of black Texas and black Houston." Ellis said he is a graduate of the university, along with political notables including the late U.S. Reps. Barbara Jordan and Mickey Leland and lawyer and former U.S. Congressman Craig Washington. Ellis, complaining that Texas' two historically black universities have been underfunded since their inception, said he hopes Perry's actions will prove positive for TSU. "I'm glad he's stepping up to the plate," he said. "Let's hope he's correcting that historical wrong." Yet, with TSU asking the Legislature for millions in emergency funds and financial help while its money matters are "in shambles," Black said, lawmakers are apt to lose patience. "It can't be the same old, same old. They're going to have to make the hard decisions to correct these issues," he said. . . Read the rest of the article here.

I don't mind homeless people. It's the aggressive pan-handling that goes on at every corner along Main Street (and stops in between) that piss me off. and while we're on the subject, the people pan-handling flowers and photographs run a close second.

Well, someone at the Dallas Morning News seemed to agree with you about a year and a half ago. I just take a different view point. In an effort to be fair and balanced I'm posting the article below. ________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________ Dallas entertainment districts too dispersed Dallas struggles with entertainment districts that visitors never see 07:25 PM CDT on Saturday, July 30, 2005 By SUZANNE MARTA / The Dallas Morning News When it comes to Dallas' nightlife and entertainment, how much is too much? REX C. CURRY/Special Contributor Jason Sellers holds a corny dog just out of reach of his son Ayden Sellers, 3, at the Taste of Dallas in the West End. From the West Village to the West End, from Deep Ellum to Main Street, Dallas has plenty of entertainment close to downtown. But the city has struggled to shake off perceptions by visitors and locals alike that there's nothing to do here. Some say the number of entertainment districts could spread the city's resources too thin, offering several places to visit but few that stand out or hold a visitor's attention. Others say the key is diversity, offering something visitors can't find in other cities and something locals can't find in the suburbs. Could more entertainment do the trick? The developers of the $3 billion Victory complex and the newly proposed entertainment district behind the Dallas Convention Center hope so. Surrounding American Airlines Center, Hillwood's 75-acre Victory would create an upscale, urban center with coiffed plazas, high-end boutiques, marquee restaurants and luxury condos when its first projects open next summer. Victory's scale is difficult to comprehend, simply driving by the cranes and building skeletons. But at the project's stylized Discovery Center on Cedar Springs, the scale model of planned buildings and streetscapes paints a picture of city transformed. "Victory is the ultimate urban neighborhood in Dallas," said Jonas Woods, who oversees the project as president of Hillwood Capital. "There's a vibrancy in our streets you won't find in our nearest neighbors in Uptown." Buildings in the current phase of construction begin opening next summer but represent a mere third of the overall project. . . you can read the rest of the article, along with commentary, here.

This thread reminds me of a dog perpetually chasing its tail. . .the same people circularly arguing the same points over and over again. Is there anything new to offer?. . .Anyone?

I respectfully ask that you keep my name out of your own little feud with Gary. Thanks. Moreover, try following some of my earlier advice, and just add something substantive to the discussion of this thread's topic. Thanks, again! My list is coming as I promised earlier.

Yeah, I was going to point out how over-hyped the TRP is in the background. At the present time, a lot of that area, immediately west of Reunion Tower, is an ugly concrete, industrial wasteland, filled with Liquor stores a strip club, Dallas County Criminal Courthouse/Jails, and a lot of bail bondsmen. I seriously doubt the City of Dallas' ability to transform that area into something that "green" EVER.

You're so predictable. Do you have anything substantive to offer that comports with this thread's topic? If not, may I suggest that you take your issues/concerns up with the administrator(s) of this forum. . .maybe you can persuade them to eliminate the "Dallas/Fort Worth/Metroplex" sub-forum altogether. Good luck!

Let me state that Main Street in DT Houston DOES NOT have, nor has it EVER had club after club for a mile. I am pretty much familiar with every square inch of that area, including the Warehouse District, Skyline District, Ballpark District, and Theater District. To say that the Main Street Corridor DT has club after club for even a quarter mile, is a serious stretch. You obviously haven't been to DT Houston at night, EVER. To answer your question, in short, YES, Dallas has a similar area called Greenville Avenue, which has far more history/longevity as an Entertainment District than Main Street in Houston, which basically exploded around the opening of the METRO rail line. I will provide you with a more comprehensive response to your question later (complete with maps, lists of establishments, etc.).

Well, now I see what your standards are. Is that all you can think of. . .10 spots? Most, if not all, of those places you listed are predominately frequented by African Americans. You might want to try to broaden your scope of nightlife, and who you party with. I wouldn't even count Reminisce, the club next door to it, the club around the corner from it, nor the sports bar down the street from it (at OST & 288). . .they're all hole in the walls. Don't get me wrong, if I want a real, real, grimy experience followed by the opportunity to buy a bar-b-que link sandwich in the parking lot, I'll consider going to one of those places, again. You have to have a "pass" get in those spots. They aren't for everyone.

That's fine. I don't have to have my cake and eat it too. It's not about that, anyway. For me, the situation IS what it IS. I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything. You keep stating that you think Houston's nightlife scene is more prominent. For comparison's sake, I'm just asking you (again), which areas in each city are you comparing? After all, you started this thread. I'm just trying to help you out. If you don't want to respond here, I'll understand. Send me a pm. But, for the record. . .one doesn't have to "look under a rock" to find "nightlife atmosphere" in Dallas. Don't get me wrong. South Beach, Las Vegas, or Bourbon Street in N.O., Dallas is not. We don't party in the streets, if that's what you mean, but the number of clubs, lounges, bars, restaurants, and after-hours in the highly concentrated entertainment district aren't hard to find, by any mean. Next time I'm out in both cities, I'll try to remember to take my camera, so I can post some visual evidence, that will finally put this falicy to rest.

LMAO. . .Where? and as compared to what area(s) in Dallas? I'm tired of people with limited to no experience inside DFW and/or outside Greater Houston contrasting the two. Most of the time I just read the posts quietly, without responding, because some of the stuff stated is so absurd that I decide to give the poster a "pass" because of the comic relief value of the post. However, in this case, I have to call bulls#*&. tierwestah I can respect the fact that you are just stating your opinion. However, next time you come to Dallas, pm me or something, and if you think you're up to it, I'll show you what nightlife is really all about. Take it from someone who PARTIES in both Dallas and Houston every month (from Southpark to Galleria Area to Midtown to Downtown to the Northside). . .Houston's got some catching up to do. You just need the right tourguide next time.