713 To 214

Which group do you think is winning the debate over how Houston should be shaped/developed in the future, and specifically how the rail system should be designed? It seems that the car culture is still pretty dominant in Houston, and Houstonians are more willing to invest hundreds of millions in stadiums before rail.

Well, I'll explain why. . . It's called a discussion. discussion - (noun) an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., esp. to explore solutions; informal debate. 1. This discussion began by examining why a 2nd METRO Bus, in as many months, hit another METRO Rail car (at the exact same intersection). Out of that examination, the discussion moved to reasons why Houston METRO doesn't have, nor is planning, a grade separated rail system. It was pointed out that the current system, and planned expansion, is flawed in this regard (a belief widely shared on and outside this forum). 2. "editor" stated that "not enough people [in Houston] think it's worth the money" to have a grade separated/subway/elevated system. AND In an effort to show that other cities don't mind investing in their transit systems, "editor" went on to compare Houston to a much smaller city (approx 100,000 pop.) he's moving to, which has by contrast, voted to invest 2 billion in an underground light rail alignment in its Downtown. 3 citykid then suggested that "editor's" comments underscored his point that Houstonians haven't been willing to spend the money [to build a better rail system]. citykid then, by holding his point up as evidence, further suggested that if Houstonians felt slighted compared to other cities, then Houstonians only had themselves to blame because they haven't been willing to make the necessary investment [in rail, among other things]. 4. You then challenged citykid's assertion by accusing citykid of not taking Houston "serious enough," and suggested his view of Houston falling short as a city, including Houston's lack of investment in a grade separated rail system, was "some goofy pie-in-the-sky expectation of what a city is supposed to be." Now, in an effort to determine where you are coming from, and assuming you really believe that citykid's view is "some goofy pie-in-the-sky expectation of what a city is supposed to be," I simply ask you (again) what you think is a "realistic expectation" for Houston, specifically with regard to rail. AND, In light of the progression of this discussion, I don't think that's an unusual request nor diversionary in any way.

Since you claim to speak for the "rest of [the] workin' folk" in Houston, I assume you have a pretty good pulse on the city. So, I'd like to know what YOUR "realistic" expectation of what a city, Houston in particular, is supposed to be. (This should be good)

Welllllll. . . . . .That's exactly what citykid keeps stating. However, for some reason, many posters want to jump on him for pointing that out. . .As if not pointing it out is going to make things better. Sure, it might make you feel better emotionally about why Houston is an anomaly in this regard. However, ignoring the problem won't either. Now, as far as citykid is concerned, may I suggest that citykid try to come up with some constructive suggestions to help bring his vision (grade-separated rail) to reality in Houston.

^ Considering it's been done in just about every other city, I wouldn't call having a mostly-completely grade-separated rail system a "pie-in-the-sky expectation."

I'm one of the first members of this board, and I've seen posters like you come and go. Most of them either get suspended or banned. I'm still here giving my opinion. . .and my opinion is that Houston METRO's attempts to build a rail system have been a joke, largely due to the people running the agency. If the Uptown/University Lines aren't built in the foreseeable future, it should come as no surprise.

. . .but you forgot the most important note. . .METRO's University AND Uptown Lines probably won't be built any time in the foreseeable future.

It just means your friend is confused. However, I'm certain he'll have fun listening to the ongoing debate in Houston (about 30 years now) about whether Houston will ever have a meaningful rail system.

I agree with pretty much everything you've stated. . .especially the "large mediocre rural/suburban/semi-urban city" part. A friend of mine who lives near TSU and I had a discussion this weekend about this same issue while he was visiting Dallas. His words were "Houston seems to celebrate mediocrity." Even though he owns property in the Medical Center and 3rd Ward (very near the proposed University Line) he's made the decision to just rent out his properties and move away for what he perceives to be a better quality of life . . .in Dallas. Of course, it's NO secret that I favor Dallas over Houston, AND I certainly am no fan of the bumbling morons at METRO, but I was still hoping METRO would get its act together and build these lines. I NEVER believed that they would be built by the proposed 2013 revenue service date, but I did have hope that they would be built by 2017 or so. Now. . .not so much. i think the new mayor is wise to "scrub" METRO from top to bottom. The leadership running that agency has been a BIG part of the problem with these rail lines, Culberson notwithstanding.

Nearly 1400 posts in and this stadium is no closer to development than before the first post. . . .sheeeesh! I've got a bright idea. . .let's wait until something CONCRETE actually happens, before posting again. This thread reminds me of a bunch of dogs chasing their tails.

Hey, I heard Houston is getting 3 W Hotels, a Ritz Carlton, a Mandarin Hotel, and even a couple of Four Seasons. I also heard all of them will be served by light rail subway stations. . .It must be true, Huh? STOP the madness, already.

As much as i hate to break up, yet another, cat fight, I'd like to pose a question. . . .Are any of METRORail's expansion projects scheduled to finish "ahead of schedule" due to the federal stimulus money?

I think most Rangers Fans remember Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez as a stand-out player from some of the Rangers better years. He seemed to always show up and do his job exceptionally well. . .as evidence by his numerous Golden Glove Awards. He could always be counted on, and many times was the difference maker in the game. Add to that, "Pudge" didn't trash talk his teammates, or otherwise bring his team down in the locker room or with any wild off-the-field antics. . .and While no one get's the respect that Rangers' Fans give Nolan Ryan, I'd say "Pudge" comes in at a close second. They just don't make too many like "Pudge," as I'm sure the Astros understand.

LMAO at thread topic!!! Thanks for the comic relief "Mother Nature Network!"

Hasn't that been METRO's M.O. for the last 15 years? . . . ."Build It Now. . .We'll Figure Out If It Actually Works Later!"

This is true. However, much of Houston's Energy Industry Workforce is rooted in oil production. . .From the training of highly skilled workers such as engineers, to lower level jobs like machinists. . .they exist to serve the purpose of extracting oil out of the ground. Even the mighty ship channel that we like to gush over so much wouldn't be near as mighty if it were not for the oil companies and their shipments of crude oil, tools, supplies, and people needed to extract that oil. Turn the page to this century, when undoubtedly more and more energy generation will come from renewable sources. The need for oil tankers, and people trained to find/pull oil out of the ground, and others tied to the extraction of oil will take on a diminishing role. I have no doubt that the oil companies will be able to survive. However, I also have NO doubt that many of those jobs will disappear.

I don't know what you could reference that would support the notion that oil ("energy") companies will "aggressively get into whatever's next." Just about everyone in the worldwide energy community acknowledges that the oil companies are investing minuscule amounts into R&D/renewable technology. Please see the following: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/he...es/mindset.html The oil companies kind of remind me of record companies 10 -15 years ago. At that time, record companies had an opportunity to step to the forefront of the digital download technology as it was evolving. Instead of embracing the technology, and acknowledging that times were changing, the major labels held a death grip on their old business model because that was the only way they knew how to make money. Fast forward to the present day, and you see massive layoffs, consolidations, and dwindling revenues as they scramble to play catch up to the technology/changing times. It's NO secret that fossil fuels won't be the predominant fuel source in the next 50 years. The oil. . .ahem, excuse me, energy companies better get on it.

I've searched this thread for a press release or other official statement from Starwood Hotels regarding Starwood's intent to build a W (not aloft) hotel in Houston. I can't find one. Can someone here please advise me on where to find such a statement?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...og.3e0972c.html _________________________________ Houston joins Los Angeles in 'severe' smog category 09:58 AM CDT on Thursday, October 2, 2008 Associated Press HOUSTON (AP)

This is great news for Houston. Those billboards are a serious eyesore. They can't take them down soon enough. I wonder what Clear Channel is getting from the City in return for agreeing to take them down

^ Send an email to METRO with your questions. Obviously, HAIF is not the best source for this type of info. It's simple. Send an email.

There will be No Subway AT ALL. There will be no portion of this line below-grade. It's simple. Let it go.

Ha! Competitors in what category? College grad recruitment/retention?. . .Trade?. . .Economic Growth?. . .Sports Stadiums? That's a pretty general statement, and it's certainly debatable.

You actually think comparing Houston to KC is a good thing?