scary new changes in the earth's eco-system

[Subdude]

Raising sea water levels are especially bad news for cities like Houston that are already prone to flooding. But hey, maybe we should just look on the bright side, or deny it altogether.

[houstonmacbro]

Raising sea water levels are especially bad news for cities like Houston that are already prone to flooding. But hey, maybe we should just look on the bright side, or deny it altogether.

yeah, so many people already want to just ignore it. i guess they will not be satisfied that something is happening (man-made or naturally occuring) until they see polar bears feasting in their backyards and chasing poor old ladies around the block.

[TheNiche]

By 2040: an Artic with no ice?

Ice is melting so fast in the Arctic that the North Pole will be in the open sea in 30 years, according to leading climatologists.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6171053.stm

Loss of summer ice would seriously compromise the lifestyles of the region's indigenous peoples, though it could also bring new trading opportunities as sea routes opened up.

In other words, there will be costs and benefits.

By 2040, only a small amount of perennial sea ice remained along the north coasts of Greenland and Canada, while most of the Arctic basin was ice-free in September.

Contrary to what was typed in the thread and in parts of the article, there will remain some ice in the arctic in 2040 according to the model (as cited in the article, itself).

"My gut feeling is that it might be around the year 2030 that we really see a rapid decline of that ice. Now could it occur sooner? It might well. Could it occur later? It might well.

The scientist admits that we don't really know when it is coming. He just has a "gut feeling".

"It depends on the aspects of natural variability in the system. We have to remember under greenhouse warming, natural variability has always been part of the picture and it always will be part of the picture."

In other words, there are factors that go beyond the human influence. The article does not enter into policy issues, but the variability and uncertainty of the natural influence would most definitely undermine an argument for policy change if it did delve into the subject.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Contrary to what was typed in the thread and in parts of the article, there will remain some ice in the arctic in 2040 according to the model (as cited in the article, itself).

SOME ice in the Arctic? I feel better now. The day I can skinny-dip in the North Pole and come out with my d*ck intacted is just about as much of a benefit as I will be able to get as an American. Canada, Greenland, and Russia will have more warmer land to shoot P. Diddy videos with bikini-clad women in 'em. Perhaps no longer worry about cold weather in Moscow, and ferment wine in Vancouver and Toronto. Yeah, benefits to come.

I will say this though. If Titanic were built in 2040 instead, it'd probably be sailing in 2041. Or maybe sink after getting hit by a passing palm tree randomly in the water. Whichever you prefer...

The scientist admits that we don't really know when it is coming. He just has a "gut feeling".

In other words, there are factors that go beyond the human influence. The article does not enter into policy issues, but the variability and uncertainty of the natural influence would most definitely undermine an argument for policy change if it did delve into the subject.

I still respect the scientist's opinion more than any regular person. The fact that a professional claims these could be posibilities after creating models based on the earth's trends in ozone loss, plus the amount of air polution man creates, should raise a red flag right there.

[TheNiche]

I still respect the scientist's opinion more than any regular person. The fact that a professional claims these could be posibilities after creating models based on the earth's trends in ozone loss, plus the amount of air polution man creates, should raise a red flag right there.

I don't think anybody (professional or otherwise) is disputing that there aren't possibilities. But that's just the thing. There are many possibilities. That's what I'm getting at.

[Pumapayam]

I don't think anybody (professional or otherwise) is disputing that there aren't possibilities.

We should rent this maybe?

[TheNiche]

We should rent this maybe?

No, I think not. Propaganda isn't really my thing.

If it were freely available on the internet, I'd watch it for the sake of making fun...like with Rush Limbaugh. But I'm not paying for drivel.

[TJones]

I'll wait until 2040 and see what the scientists say when this Global Event doesn't happen.

This type of information is like the Doctor who gave his patient 6 months to live, but the patient couldn't pay his bill, so the doctor gave him another 6 months.

[Mark F. Barnes]

So after Al Gore invented the Internet, he became an expert on global warming? Honestly do you really want to use this as some form of real reference?

[DJ V Lawrence]

I don't think anybody (professional or otherwise) is disputing that there aren't possibilities. But that's just the thing. There are many possibilities. That's what I'm getting at.

So what exactly do we do in 2040 if what the scientists said were correct? Would we then start listening to the scientists who start predicting 2080?

[Pumapayam]

So what exactly do we do in 2040 if what the scientists said were correct? Would we then start listening to the scientists who start predicting 2080?

Well, if you put it in those terms, when you compare what scientist said about the 2006 hurricane season back in January 2006, versus what really happened, it is like night and day.

So yes, they can make absurd assumptions. But the charts that show the slow increase in average temperature is still disturbing.

[nmainguy]

So after Al Gore invented the Internet, he became an expert on global warming? Honestly do you really want to use this as some form of real reference?

Gore never said he invented the internet.

George Bush SAID he said it.

Honestly do you really want to use Bush as some form of real reference?

[Mark F. Barnes]

Gore never said he invented the internet.

George Bush SAID he said it.

Honestly do you really want to use Bush as some form of real reference?

Here is what Al Gore Said:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/199...ranscript.gore/

[DJ V Lawrence]

Honestly do you really want to use Bush as some form of real reference?

To me, Bush is a better reference point than this guy...

(For a complete transcript, here's a link > )

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/

[Mark F. Barnes]

GORE: Well, I will be offering -- I'll be offering my vision when my campaign begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it will be compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be.

But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/199...ranscript.gore/

[Pumapayam]

Gore never said he invented the internet.

Al Gore obviously had "foot in mouth" syndrome, and goofed up, and unfortunately, that quote stuck with him and constant jokes were born because of it. I remember when some other interviewer asked him to comment on that claim, he corrected himself and elaborated that he helped promote and encourage developers to help refine it to make a usable resource for e-commerce and communication during the mid to late 90's.

I will try to find the source, but yes, he said something so short, it was taken as a fact, he just should have detailed it better.

[nmainguy]

To me, Bush is a better reference point than this guy...

(For a complete transcript, here's a link > )

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/

DJ,

That has no relevance to what Bush lied about regarding what Gore actually DID say-and was praised by the father of the internet for taking the initiative

But the real question is what, if anything, did Gore actually do to create the modern Internet? According to Vincent Cerf, a senior vice president with MCI Worldcom who's been called the Father of the Internet, "The Internet would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by the Vice President in his current role and in his earlier role as Senator."

I'll take that guy's word over Bush anyday as well.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

"Creating the internet" is a lot safer to me than flying onto a battleship and saying "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed..." with a giant banner in the background that said "Mission Accomplished", when more U.S. troops and civilians have died there since that speech, the Secretary of Defense decides to resign, and as he's leaving, says "In my view it is time for a major adjustment. Clearly, what U.S. forces are currently doing in Iraq is not working well enough or fast enough."

(I'm just saying that because what Gore said back then is no big deal.)

Speaking of Gore, I haven't his movie yet. To anyone that has, was it a breakdown or an overview?

DJ,

That has no relevance to what Bush lied about regarding what Gore actually DID say-and was praised by the father of the internet for taking the initiative

I still find the Iraqi Information Minister's website more entertaining than Bush OR Gore's >

[TJones]

"Creating the internet" is a lot safer to me than flying onto a battleship and saying "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed..." with a giant banner in the background that said "Mission Accomplished", when more U.S. troops and civilians have died there since that speech, the Secretary of Defense decides to resign, and as he's leaving, says "In my view it is time for a major adjustment. Clearly, what U.S. forces are currently doing in Iraq is not working well enough or fast enough."

(I'm just saying that because what Gore said back then is no big deal.)

Speaking of Gore, I haven't his movie yet. To anyone that has, was it a breakdown or an overview?

I still find the Iraqi Information Minister's website more entertaining than Bush OR Gore's >

What the hell is this tangent all about, quit trying to Hijack, it is not becoming of you sir.

[DJ V Lawrence]

What the hell is this tangent all about, quit trying to Hijack, it is not becoming of you sir.

All I'm saying is this: What Gore said about the environment is something I can understand to be debated on this forum. But what Gore said about the internet is about as useless on this thread as what other politicians or presidents said about anything that has nothing to do with environmental policies.

[TJones]

All I'm saying is this: What Gore said about the environment is something I can understand to be debated on this forum. But what Gore said about the internet is about as useless on this thread as what other politicians or presidents said about anything that has nothing to do with environmental policies.

No, because it sets up the fact that the guy is full of bolgna when it comes to being a self proclaimed "expert" on such subjects. He takes all the credit for something he actually didn't have a hand in, now he is an "eco-warrior" trying to save the planet, and Gore would have you beleive that this has been one of his top priorities all along. Next, he'll be telling everyone that HE came up with the whole Captain Planet cartoon idea.

[Gary]

No, because it sets up the fact that the guy is full of bolgna when it comes to being a self proclaimed "expert" on such subjects. He takes all the credit for something he actually didn't have a hand in, now he is an "eco-warrior" trying to save the planet, and Gore would have you beleive that this has been one of his top priorities all along. Next, he'll be telling everyone that HE came up with the whole Captain Planet cartoon idea.

What he said. Especially regarding Captain Planet.

[houstonmacbro]

So after Al Gore invented the Internet, he became an expert on global warming? Honestly do you really want to use this as some form of real reference?

get your facts straight. he was very instrumental in passing legislation that created what we now know as the internet...

The Internet and the Webbys

Gore bill

Up until the early 1990s, Internet usage was limited. Campbell-Kelly and Aspray note in their 1996 text, Computer: A History of the Information Machine:

During the second half of the 1980s, the joys of 'surfing the net,' began to excite the interest of people beyond the professional computer-using communities [...] However, the existing computer networks were largely in government, higher education and business. They were not a free good and were not open to hobbyists or private firms that did not have access to a host computer. To fill this gap, a number of firms such as CompuServe, Prodigy, GEnie, and America Online sprang up to provide low cost network access [...] While these networks gave access to Internet for e-mail (typically on a pay-per-message basis), they did not give the ordinary citizen access to the full range of the Internet, or to the glories of gopherspace or the World Wide Web. In a country whose Constitution enshrines freedom of information, most of its citizens were effectively locked out of the library of the future. The Internet was no longer a technical issue, but a political one. The problem of giving ordinary Americans network access had exercised Senator Al Gore since the late 1970s. In 1990 he was the author of the High Performance Computing Act, which proposed the creation of a high-speed fiber optic network that would produce enormous leverage for the information economy of the twenty-first century. [60]

In developing this act, Gore was highly influenced by the 1988 report Toward a National Research Network [61] submitted to Congress by a group chaired by UCLA professor of computer science, Leonard Kleinrock, one of the central creators of the ARPANET [62].

After hearing this report, Gore introduced legislation during the late 1980s known informally as the 'Gore Bill'.[63] It was passed, however, as the High Performance Computing Act of 1991 [64] on Dec. 9, 1991 and led to the NII or National Information Infrastructure [65] which Gore referred to as the Information superhighway.

Leonard Kleinrock lists this bill as an important moment in Internet history:

A second development occurred around this time, namely, then-Senator Al Gore, a strong and knowledgeable proponent of the Internet, promoted legislation that resulted in President George Bush signing the High Performance Computing and Communication act of 1991. This Act allocated $600 million for high performance computing and for the creation of the National Research and Education Network [13-14]. The NREN brought together industry, academia and government in a joint effort to accelerate the development and deployment of gigabit/sec networking. [66]

[Mark F. Barnes]

get your facts straight. he was very instrumental in passing legislation that created what we now know as the internet...

The Internet and the Webbys

Gore bill

Up until the early 1990s, Internet usage was limited. Campbell-Kelly and Aspray note in their 1996 text, Computer: A History of the Information Machine:

During the second half of the 1980s, the joys of 'surfing the net,' began to excite the interest of people beyond the professional computer-using communities [...] However, the existing computer networks were largely in government, higher education and business. They were not a free good and were not open to hobbyists or private firms that did not have access to a host computer. To fill this gap, a number of firms such as CompuServe, Prodigy, GEnie, and America Online sprang up to provide low cost network access [...] While these networks gave access to Internet for e-mail (typically on a pay-per-message basis), they did not give the ordinary citizen access to the full range of the Internet, or to the glories of gopherspace or the World Wide Web. In a country whose Constitution enshrines freedom of information, most of its citizens were effectively locked out of the library of the future. The Internet was no longer a technical issue, but a political one. The problem of giving ordinary Americans network access had exercised Senator Al Gore since the late 1970s. In 1990 he was the author of the High Performance Computing Act, which proposed the creation of a high-speed fiber optic network that would produce enormous leverage for the information economy of the twenty-first century. [60]

In developing this act, Gore was highly influenced by the 1988 report Toward a National Research Network [61] submitted to Congress by a group chaired by UCLA professor of computer science, Leonard Kleinrock, one of the central creators of the ARPANET [62].

After hearing this report, Gore introduced legislation during the late 1980s known informally as the 'Gore Bill'.[63] It was passed, however, as the High Performance Computing Act of 1991 [64] on Dec. 9, 1991 and led to the NII or National Information Infrastructure [65] which Gore referred to as the Information superhighway.

Leonard Kleinrock lists this bill as an important moment in Internet history:

A second development occurred around this time, namely, then-Senator Al Gore, a strong and knowledgeable proponent of the Internet, promoted legislation that resulted in President George Bush signing the High Performance Computing and Communication act of 1991. This Act allocated $600 million for high performance computing and for the creation of the National Research and Education Network [13-14]. The NREN brought together industry, academia and government in a joint effort to accelerate the development and deployment of gigabit/sec networking. [66]

Huh? Curious as to the source of that C&P with all the referencing numbers I am guessing Wikipedia.

Just from what I've read I know that preliminary discussions of how the ARPANET would be designed began in 1967, and a request for proposals went out the following year. In 1969, the Defense Department commissioned the ARPANET. Friggin' Gore was 21-years-old at the time. He wasn't even done with law school at Vanderbilt University, and still fighting a bad case of acne. It would be eight more years before Gore would be elected to the US House of Representatives as a freshman Democrat with scant experience in passing legislation, let alone ambitious proposals. By that time, file copying -- via the UUCP protocol -- was beginning. Email was flourishing. The culture of the Internet was starting to develop through the Jargon File and the SF-Lovers mailing list. Of course, politicians weren't completely unaware of the Internet. Even before he was known as Mr. Chappaquiddick, Senator Ted Kennedy learned in 1968 that Massachusetts-based BBN had won the ARPA contract for an "interface message processor," he sent a congratulatory telegram. It thanked the upstanding folks at BBN for their ecumenical spirit in devising an "interfaith message processor." Now the bumbling CNN interviewer Blitzer, unfortunately, didn't appear to know any of this. After Gore took credit for "creating" the Internet, Blitzer simply moved on talk about polls showing George W. and Elizabeth Dole ahead of Gore, because he simply didn't know any better, pretty typical CNN uninformed reporter. Now Gore didn't say he "created" legislation, he said "created" the Internet. Gore has taken credit for popularizing the term "information superhighway" and around 1991 penned related articles for publications such as Byte magazine. But the term "data highway" has been used as far back as 1975, before Gore entered Congress.

Now in 1990, Gore did introduce a bill that would allow the federal government to enter the business of crafting software for teachers to use. Another Gore plan would create a new federal research center for educational computing to support an "information systems highway." But the system he envisioned bears little resemblance to the PC-dominated Internet. "Supercomputers are the steam locomotives of the information age," the then-Senator Gore was quoted as saying in one article published in 1990. "In the Industrial Age, steam locomotives didn't do much good until the railroad tracks were laid down across the nation. Similarly, we now have supercomputers going into the seventh generation of supercomputers, but we don't have the interstate highways that we need to connect them. "Within four years, the top-of-the-line US$20 million supercomputers will cost less than $400,000. A few years after that, they will be in the $10,000 to $20,000 range." But the development of the Net has resembled less a government-managed industrial project such as the orderly interstate-highway systems Gore hoped for and more an anarchic sprawl. "Gore played no positive role in the decisions that led to the creation of the Internet as it now exists that is, in the opening of the Internet to commercial traffic," said Steve Allen, vice president for communications at the Progress and Freedom Foundation meeting held in 1995.

Don't get me wrong Houstonmacbro, I will give credit where credit is due. Gore was one of the most prominent people in the Clinton administration on issues related to high technology. He hosted visiting businessmen and took pride in personally announcing new technology initiatives such as Internet II funding. And he also took the lead in supporting the Clipper Chip and continued restrictions on the overseas shipments of encryption products. However high-visibility events can be prone to embarrassing slip-ups. At one White House event, Gore introduced Cisco Systems CEO John Chambers, who he had met with privately earlier that day. Gore told the audience how much he valued Chambers and one of the products Cisco produced. But he mispronounced "routers" as root-ers. Spoken like a true pioneer in the field of modern technology, and the "creator" of the Internet.

If he would have just said he introduced a Bill that helped fund researchers in the development of parts of the Internet for use in America's educational system, that would have been great. But he's a glory hound and has often taken credit for things he has nothing to do with, just trying to be an opportunist, which is very self serving as are most politicians. All this discussion only came about because someone decided to throw in this "idiotic" so called documentary, portraying Gore as some sort of expert now on global warming, his next move in trying to boost his credentials as someone who has done something important.

[houstonmacbro]

yes, it was wikipedia. sorry, should have included the reference. here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore#The_I..._and_the_Webbys

[nmainguy]

get your facts straight. he was very instrumental in passing legislation that created what we now know as the internet...

The Internet and the Webbys

Gore bill

Good post. However, it's a shame such a long post was needed just to explain the difference between invent and initiative. I guess I could say Bush lied but then again he may not know the difference either.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Good post. However, it's a shame such a long post was needed just to explain the difference between invent and initiative. I guess I could say Bush lied but then again he may not know the difference either.

[TJones]

Good post. However, it's a shame such a long post was needed just to explain the difference between invent and initiative. I guess I could say Bush lied but then again he may not know the difference either.

You're right, I don't think Gore would know the difference, since he thinks "iniative" is "inventing" ! When did Bush lie about the eco-system ?

[Pumapayam]

Good post. However, it's a shame such a long post was needed just to explain the difference between invent and initiative. I guess I could say Bush lied but then again he may not know the difference either.

And on that note , I think we found some closure to this digression that started with a unexpected minor tangent by me referencing an environmental movie narrated by Gore, thinking it would continue the discussion, I did not know it would hijack houstonmacbro's topic (I apologize ), and would turn into a politcal debate between Bush and Gore supporters.

Let's get this post back to discussing about scary changes to our ecosystem . . .

[DJ V Lawrence]

No, because it sets up the fact that the guy is full of bolgna when it comes to being a self proclaimed "expert" on such subjects. He takes all the credit for something he actually didn't have a hand in, now he is an "eco-warrior" trying to save the planet, and Gore would have you beleive that this has been one of his top priorities all along. Next, he'll be telling everyone that HE came up with the whole Captain Planet cartoon idea.

If I'm right, you're saying that because of Gore's comments on the internet in the past, Gore is incompetant on the subject of the eco-system? Like I said before, I can't comment on what Gore knows about the environment particularly because he supposedly put it all on the table in "The Inconvieniant Truth", and I haven't seen it yet. After I see it like the rest of you have, I'll be able to have a better opinion as to if Gore's findings are reasonable or not. I'll try to watch it this weekend to catch up.

Also, WTF was up with Captain Planet anyway? He had those four kids with badass rings with Earth, Fire, Wind, and Water, then he had that one left-out kid with a ring called "heart"? Can you imagine him going to a superhero's convention and forcing his way in ranting "Look b*tch, I'm Heart from Captain Planet!"?