Downtown's Street Grid

[Guest Marty]

Max Concrete shoud know the answer.

[nmainguy]

On a somewhat related subject of where W Gray meets Gray:

For some time now, I've been trying to get a handle on where the 'zero' lines fall (i.e. where the address would be 1 N Some St, or 1 W Any Street). I can't tell if it is Main St and the bayou all the way out to Barker Cypress or if it is the latitude and longitude line of where the bayou and Main St. meet (Allen's landing has also been tossed in as a guess).

Things I haven't done yet, but might:

-Call the post office or City Hall or Fire Department

-Plot out all the 1 N Any Streets in Google Earth (partial list: UHD, Bayou Bend, Rainbow Lodge)

-Give up

Finally, wherever these lines are, do you notice/is it true that the odd and even numbers change sides? North of Buffalo Bayou evens on N/S streets are on the East side and South of the bayou they're on the West?

Good post. South of UHDT is Main-north of that is N. Main. That is established as the street was expanded northward and someone decided to change the name as opposed to giving the next address northward a negative number as in:-One Main.Therefore, from UHDT traveling north, the street is called North Main. Our home address on the west side of the street on N. Main is an odd number. We have a property on the same side south of UHDT that is even. Frankly, I've never given any thought to what the difference is until now.

If someone has an answer I'll give them the Trivia Street Numbering Challange Award 2006. Award to announced at a later date...

[dalparadise]

Mapquest directions to the airport: Travel east on South Braeswood to the West Loop South and turn north. Exit due east onto the Southwest Freeway, following it until it turns to the north, becoming the Eastex Freeway. Exit due west on North Sam Houston Parkway East to JFK Blvd. Turn north.

[houstonfella]

Mapquest directions to the airport: Travel east on South Braeswood to the West Loop South and turn north. Exit due east onto the Southwest Freeway, following it until it turns to the north, becoming the Eastex Freeway. Exit due west on North Sam Houston Parkway East to JFK Blvd. Turn north.

east West Loop South west East north .... woe is me.

Probably to visitors it is hard to navigate here. But to me, it is very easy to navigate. But I have been here since 1972. Kind of grew up with the place.

[Captain Impossible]

Back in Dallas, you can go south on the eastbound lanes of East Northwest Highway.

[Houston19514]

And in regard to streets' names and actual directions... isn't it odd that the 78 Alabama bus's route never takes it onto Alabama? A more accurate name would be the W Alabama route.

Not odd at all. W Alabama is STILL Alabama.

[musicman]

You'll notice that the transition from W Dallas to Dallas and W Gray to Gray is at the same point; this is perfectly in concert with my "theory" (and the "W" in "W Dallas" obviously does not mean one is going due West, because then the other side of the street would have to be named "E Dallas"; the "W" in "W Dallas" just inicates that it is a street with a generally east-west bearing and you are to the West of the dividing line). In Houston, as in many cities, there is a sort of "default" whereby streets to one side of the dividing line are stated without stating the direction. So, when you see "Dallas", the East is implied.

(BTW, I got the East-West dividing line wrong, it is not Main Street, but somewhere just to the west of downtown.)

I guess I was trying to say that there are E/W designations scattered all over the city, not just those "somewhere to just to the west of downtown." Orem, Bellfort, Little York, etc. I say it is more random all over the city.

When i see Dallas i wouldn't say east is implied, i would say it is older than W Dallas though as that is where W Dallas got its name from the original street called Dallas.

[Houston19514]

I guess I was trying to say that there are E/W designations scattered all over the city, not just those "somewhere to just to the west of downtown." Orem, Bellfort, Little York, etc. I say it is more random all over the city.

When i see Dallas i wouldn't say east is implied, i would say it is older than W Dallas though as that is where W Dallas got its name from the original street called Dallas.

Good grief, man. I did not say all streets with the designation of "W" were "just to the west of downtown." I merely said that the dividing line between east and west apparently runs just to the west of downtown, rather than on Main Street as I had presumed.

The dividing line runs throughout the entire city.

So, of course there are E and W Little York and Orem and Bellfort, etc etc etc. Any street running in a generally east-west bearing will have both an E and a W version, if it runs on both sides of that dividing line. Look on a Google Map and you can find exactly where Little York switches from E to W. It's still the same street! The E and W just indicate which side of the dividing line you are on.

[RedScare]

There are numerous dividing lines. Downtown, it is Buffalo Bayou on the north and west. In the Heights, it is Heights Boulevard. Out west, it is generally Buffalo Bayou. As Houston swallowed up towns, it generally did not renumber the streets, so there is often no rhyme or reason to the grid.

[dbigtex56]

Not odd at all. W Alabama is STILL Alabama.

If you're going to an address on Alabama, and take the Alabama bus...you ain't gonna get there.

And that doesn't strike you as odd?

btw: Virginia and W Virginia? Two separate states.

[Houston19514]

There are numerous dividing lines. Downtown, it is Buffalo Bayou on the north and west. In the Heights, it is Heights Boulevard. Out west, it is generally Buffalo Bayou. As Houston swallowed up towns, it generally did not renumber the streets, so there is often no rhyme or reason to the grid.

VERY interesting. I had never noticed that. Within those pockets (e.g., The Heights), the same rules apply. For example, East of Heights Blvd, 9th Street is E. 9th Street. West of Heights Blvd, 9th Street is W 9th Street, but it's all 9th Street.

I've been searching, so far in vain, for a source that explains where the dividing lines are... and how the numberings work :-(

[musicman]

Good grief, man. I did not say all streets with the designation of "W" were "just to the west of downtown." I merely said that the dividing line between east and west apparently runs just to the west of downtown, rather than on Main Street as I had presumed.

The dividing line runs throughout the entire city.

So, of course there are E and W Little York and Orem and Bellfort, etc etc etc. Any street running in a generally east-west bearing will have both an E and a W version, if it runs on both sides of that dividing line. Look on a Google Map and you can find exactly where Little York switches from E to W. It's still the same street! The E and W just indicate which side of the dividing line you are on.

i'm saying good grief too. i'm just saying that the "dividing line" varies to the point of it not being discernable (i.e. it is street/area specific) there's an orem, w orem and e orem yet streets that are running parallel to this don't change names where orem does.

There are numerous dividing lines. Downtown, it is Buffalo Bayou on the north and west. In the Heights, it is Heights Boulevard. Out west, it is generally Buffalo Bayou. As Houston swallowed up towns, it generally did not renumber the streets, so there is often no rhyme or reason to the grid.

thank you red....margarita on me!

Edited November 9, 2006 by musicman

[Houston19514]

I finally found SOMEthing on the city's website addressing this. It's not much, but it's somthing...

They have a page named Street Name Change Procedures and Standards.

Included in the standards:

"Street name prefixes such as North, South, East, and West may be used to clarify the general location of the street. However, such prefixes must be consistent with the existing and established street naming and address numbering system of the general area in which the street is located."

Edited November 10, 2006 by Houston19514

[RedScare]

Here's another thread where this question was asked.

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...ate,and,madison

Mods may want to merge. In that thread, I looked west at addresses, and seemed to be convinced that Buffalo Bayou was a dividing line for a large portion of west Houston.

[Houston19514]

If you're going to an address on Alabama, and take the Alabama bus...you ain't gonna get there.

And that doesn't strike you as odd?

btw: Virginia and W Virginia? Two separate states.

Unless, of course your "address on Alabama" happens to be on W Alabama, which is, after all Alabama Street as well. Gee, how have people ever been able to locate the Alabama Ice House or Alabama Theater? With names like that confusing them, one would think they would be wandering around over there somewhere east of Spur 527. ;-)

btw: I am aware of the distinction between Virginia and West Virginia. States are quite different things than city streets; perhaps you've noticed that.

I'm not sure how we got to this particular tangent. My initial point was and remains, that the W on street signs merely indicates you are on a street with an east-west bearing and you are to the west of the dividing line. That applies to Alabama Street as well, and I imagine that east of the dividing line, which for Alabama appears to be at Spur 527, there are "E's" on the Alabama Street signs.

[dbigtex56]

Unless, of course your "address on Alabama" happens to be on W Alabama, which is, after all Alabama Street as well. Gee, how have people ever been able to locate the Alabama Ice House or Alabama Theater? With names like that confusing them, one would think they would be wandering around over there somewhere east of Spur 527. ;-)

btw: I am aware of the distinction between Virginia and West Virginia. States are quite different things than city streets; perhaps you've noticed that.

I'm not sure how we got to this particular tangent. My initial point was and remains, that the W on street signs merely indicates you are on a street with an east-west bearing and you are to the west of the dividing line. That applies to Alabama Street as well, and I imagine that east of the dividing line, which for Alabama appears to be at Spur 527, there are "E's" on the Alabama Street signs.

I'll concede the Alabama Theater (which, after all, is on neither Alabama nor W Alabama.) However, I cannot concede the ice house. Google "alabama ice house" (with quotation marks) and every reference is to West Alabama Ice House.

My point (and I do have one) is that there is not an E Alabama. It's just called Alabama east of Main St., and no Metro buses run down it. Not even the misnamed 78 Alabama bus.

[Guest Marty]

I finally found SOMEthing on the city's website addressing this. It's not much, but it's somthing...

They have a page named Street Name Change Procedures and Standards.

Included in the standards:

"Street name prefixes such as North, South, East, and West may be used to clarify the general location of the street. However, such prefixes must be consistent with the existing and established street naming and address numbering system of the general area in which the street is located."

Your link is wrong.

[jmancuso]

the downtown grid is actually east to west/ north to south, it's just that the rest of the planet is crooked.

[Tejo]

It's a stretch I know, but I was always told that the DT grid was oriented NE/sw in "tribute" to the Allen Brothers' native home- New York

[The Great Hizzy!]

Good lord, you all are really bored aren't you.

[Houston19514]

Your link is wrong.

Oops. Sorry about that. Let me try again.

Street Naming Procedures

I'll concede the Alabama Theater (which, after all, is on neither Alabama nor W Alabama.) However, I cannot concede the ice house. Google "alabama ice house" (with quotation marks) and every reference is to West Alabama Ice House.

My point (and I do have one) is that there is not an E Alabama. It's just called Alabama east of Main St., and no Metro buses run down it. Not even the misnamed 78 Alabama bus.

Gotcha.

[HeightsGuy]

VERY interesting. I had never noticed that. Within those pockets (e.g., The Heights), the same rules apply. For example, East of Heights Blvd, 9th Street is E. 9th Street. West of Heights Blvd, 9th Street is W 9th Street, but it's all 9th Street.

I've been searching, so far in vain, for a source that explains where the dividing lines are... and how the numberings work :-(

That's easy, Heights was a different city than Houston when the streets were named, same goes for a lot of the other n/s/e/w street designations for what are now suburbs but were then separate entities from Houston.

[Houston19514]

That's easy, Heights was a different city than Houston when the streets were named, same goes for a lot of the other n/s/e/w street designations for what are now suburbs but were then separate entities from Houston.

Yea, that much I knew (and I think that was also mentioned in Dbigtex's helpful post, above). What we have not found (and does not appear to be easy) is an explanation of where the basic dividing lines are (acknowledging that there are the exceptions to the rules caused by the various former entities now being part of the city).

[DaTrain]

Northwest Freeway and Hempstead Highway doesn't follow the address grid lineup either because of the NW/SE diagonal, and I am looking at a streeet map rite now. Example: Hollister is the cross street; Little York and Tidwell cross it at the 7700 block mark, while NW Freeway and Hempstead cross it at the 13400 block, more or less.

[dbigtex56]

Unless, of course your "address on Alabama" happens to be on W Alabama, which is, after all Alabama Street as well. Gee, how have people ever been able to locate the Alabama Ice House or Alabama Theater? With names like that confusing them, one would think they would be wandering around over there somewhere east of Spur 527. ;-)

btw: I am aware of the distinction between Virginia and West Virginia. States are quite different things than city streets; perhaps you've noticed that.

I'm not sure how we got to this particular tangent. My initial point was and remains, that the W on street signs merely indicates you are on a street with an east-west bearing and you are to the west of the dividing line. That applies to Alabama Street as well, and I imagine that east of the dividing line, which for Alabama appears to be at Spur 527, there are "E's" on the Alabama Street signs.

I'll concede the Alabama Theater (which, after all, is on neither Alabama nor W Alabama.) However, I cannot concede the ice house. Google "alabama ice house" (with quotation marks) and every reference is to West Alabama Ice House.

My point (and I do have one) is that there is not an E Alabama. It's just called Alabama east of Main St., and no Metro buses run down it. Not even the misnamed 78 Alabama bus.

My contention received an unexpected boost this past week.

As I was walking down W Alabama (near Mulberry - 1500 block), a car pulled up. The passenger opened his window and asked, "Excuse me, where's the museum?" I explained that if they turned onto Mulberry that the Menil was just one block down. "But we're not looking for the Menil. We want the other museum." After some discussion, turns out that the 'other' museum was Station Museum of Contemporary Art, which is located at 1502 Alabama. (No West.)

Thank goodness they didn't take the bus. That would be one heck of a walk back.

[I-beam]

Been a while since this topic was touched, but I had heard that the orientation was to neatly always have one side of the street in the shade. It makes sense to me because the bayou changes it’s direction and the bridges seem to plug into the grid nicely. Any thoughts?

[Ross]

28 minutes ago, I-beam said:

Been a while since this topic was touched, but I had heard that the orientation was to neatly always have one side of the street in the shade. It makes sense to me because the bayou changes it’s direction and the bridges seem to plug into the grid nicely. Any thoughts?

I've seen several sources from a pretty large span of years that the grid was oriented to maximize the exposure to the prevailing SE wind. Keep in mind that until the earlyish 20th century, much of what is now Downtown was occupied by single family homes, often with pretty large(compared to today) setbacks from the street. There would not have been shade provided by buildings until the taller structures were built starting in the <forgot the date>.

[I-beam]

That makes great sense, and you make a very good point in regards to the buildings that would have been there when downtown was laid out. Thanks!