Highway 249 Toll Road North Of Spring Cypress

[Alan]

I heard from a guy at work that this may be in the works, anybody know for sure if this is a 'for sure' thing?

I know they have a ways to go before 249 is complete, especially the Tomball bypass part, just curious.

Thanks,

--Alan

[mrfootball]

How about completing the freeway all the way into downtown Houston first? Or perhaps just that part from the beltway to I-45?

What kind of backwards-assed highway planning has us spending all of our money extending a freeway that doesn't even connect into town?

[Trae]

249 needs to be extended to at least I-45. 290 will love it.

[TheNiche]

What kind of backwards-assed highway planning has us spending all of our money extending a freeway that doesn't even connect into town?

What kind of backwards-assed home buyer spends all their money buying a home that uses a freeway that doesn't even connect into town?

[Mom22Blessings]

I can't wait to see the bottleneck start up after getting off 249 after Spring Cypress. It will be like that all the way until you reach the "overpass" of 2920 at Boudreaux Rd. I don't know who thought of this but they should finish the middle sectrion first. Luckily I don't ever drive that way but DH does everyday to downtown. That traffic is horrible after 4PM!

[mrfootball]

What kind of backwards-assed home buyer spends all their money buying a home that uses a freeway that doesn't even connect into town?

The kind that doesn't have to commute to Downtown...

[invincible569]

The kind that doesn't have to commute to Downtown...

They really need to do something with 290. Right after the beltway, it changes to 3 lanes and this is where the jam starts. I wish they would make someking of Westpark alike toll from Cypress to Galleria/Downtown. They are building SOOOO many new homes out here, its going to be a mess. It already is! just a couple of weeks ago, the jam now starts at the exit ramp of Telge!! Frustrating!!

[MidtownCoog]

They better not spend one red cent of Houston or Metro money on a toll road to Aggy land.

Not to pick on the Northwest Side of town, but what IS up with 290?

One hour to get to Loop 610 from Skinner Road? Who would chose that?

And don't say "The kind that doesn't have to commute to Downtown..."

[PureAuteur]

We need to quit building freeways period. The only way to change people's habits of depending on the automobile is to build high speed transit. Well, that's my argument against the Grand Pukeway.

In the meantime, they need to take care of people in Houston proper by extending 249 from Beltway 8 to downtown Houston or have it hook onto I-45 somewhere around the N. Shepherd area. They should have done this a long time ago, because there are always people traveling between downtown and the Cypress Creek/Willowbrook/Tomball area.

249 should not be made into a toll road, but should only be made into an elevated freeway all the way into Tomball area, so basically they can stop with what they've done now.

[TheNiche]

We need to quit building freeways period. The only way to change people's habits of depending on the automobile is to build high speed transit. Well, that's my argument against the Grand Pukeway.

Mass transit is a very poor substitute for the Grand Parkway. It is best suited for radial connections between the urban core and the suburbs.

Sounds like you just want to trade one form of inconvenient dependency for another much more expensive and inconvenient one. Jeez, has ANYBODY ever read and understood my hypothesis that suburban and urban areas need one another? Perhaps that should be written up in full in my signature, since it bears so much repetition...

[Houston19514]

We need to quit building freeways period. The only way to change people's habits of depending on the automobile is to build high speed transit. Well, that's my argument against the Grand Pukeway.

In the meantime, they need to take care of people in Houston proper by extending 249 from Beltway 8 to downtown Houston or have it hook onto I-45 somewhere around the N. Shepherd area. They should have done this a long time ago, because there are always people traveling between downtown and the Cypress Creek/Willowbrook/Tomball area.

249 should not be made into a toll road, but should only be made into an elevated freeway all the way into Tomball area, so basically they can stop with what they've done now.

LOL So I guess what you really meant to say in that first sentence was "We need to quit building freeways period... except where they might benefit ME."

[ENGcons]

A 290 Expansion has already been awarded to a design firm and is currently in design. It involves a new interchange at 290, and 610 with expanded freeway all the way out to Highway 6. Timeline, about 15 years.

And it is just too bad we all aren't as smart as Niche. Just a damn shame.

[PureAuteur]

LOL So I guess what you really meant to say in that first sentence was "We need to quit building freeways period... except where they might benefit ME."

All I said was that we should continue to make 249 a freeway wherever it's still a highway, and we should extend 249 to I-45 or all the way to downtown, as it should have been done. This would benefit a lot of people, not just myself.

When I said we need to quit building freeways period, I meant there ought to be no more new freeways, meaning the Grand Parkway.

TheNiche- you said that the suburbs and the urban core depend on one another, but I think this is the problem, because it means that no matter how far out the suburban growth goes, everything will still consider itself an extension of the urban core, even if you're way out in Magnolia or Waller. When you make these towns suburban, you automatically make them part of the Greater Houston area.

What we need is for these areas to develop independently into urbanized towns with their own road systems and boundaries, so they are no longer a component to Houston's ring system of development and Houston's sector-wedge system of development. They can develop their own alternative transporations. TheNiche- I never said I wanted high speed transit where the Grand Parkway would go, but rather between the outer communities and the downtown core.

[Mr. Chenevert]

249 was built because of Compaq. When the company hinted at expansion outside of the Houston area, money magically became available to build the highway. There were never plans to go south of the beltway since the beltway already served the purpose of getting employees to work. While the northern extension may someday get built, it would have to be as a toll road north of spring cypress. Otherwise it wont be done for 25+ years. Since Compaq, now HP is no longer in expansion mode, I would not expect any "magic" money to come anytime soon.

[Houston19514]

All I said was that we should continue to make 249 a freeway wherever it's still a highway, and we should extend 249 to I-45 or all the way to downtown, as it should have been done. This would benefit a lot of people, not just myself.

When I said we need to quit building freeways period, I meant there ought to be no more new freeways, meaning the Grand Parkway.

You were indeed quite clear the first time. ;-) But no matter how you try to parse your words, building a freeway from the terminus of the current 249 freeway to I-45 would indeed be a "new freeway." How are you ever going to change peoples' dependence on the automobile if we keep building new freeways all the way into downtown or at least to I-45? ;-)

(and by the way, the Grand Parkway will also benefit a lot of people, even if one of them is NOT you.)

[PureAuteur]

Are you kidding me? I'm talking about a 4-7 mile extension, which is hardly building a new freeway. This allows the 100,000 people that live along the 249 corridor in NW Houston to get to downtown without having to get on the tollway and then get on I-45 at Greenspoint Mall. Everyone in Houston has easy access to downtown except those who use 290 and 249. The 290 situation involves getting on Loop 610 to get to I-10, but that's not really too difficult and you don't gain any time by connecting 290 all the way through. 249, on the other hand, turns into a regular road before connecting to I-45. They could easily convert it, which is not building a new freeway. When I said that I didn't mean conversions or extensions, I meant a new freeway like building I-40 or State Hwy 5555 or Grand Parkway. They are already expanding 249 north of Compaq or making some kind of toll road by-pass (I haven't seen it yet), and so if they're going to do that, then they should do it to the south as well, since there are more people traveling toward downtown than there are people traveling north of Tomball. I don't even need to look up traffic statistics, it's just common sense.

By the way, I do not support the building of the 290/Hempstead Hwy Toll Rd that has been proposed, as that would be a new freeway as I see it. If those people in Black Horse Ranch who live way out there are complaining about the commute time being 90 minutes to Loop 610, it's their own fault for buying into the housing boom. They never should have overbuilt the 290 corridor past Telge, that was a huge mistake. Unfortunately, we have no zoning to stop it, and if I lived in Cypress, which is a very nice area to live in my opinion, I would use 290 a few times a year to go visit the city of Houston, and try and take part in making my own area/community self-sufficient.

[Houston19514]

Are you kidding me? I'm talking about a 4-7 mile extension, which is hardly building a new freeway. This allows the 100,000 people that live along the 249 corridor in NW Houston to get to downtown without having to get on the tollway and then get on I-45 at Greenspoint Mall. Everyone in Houston has easy access to downtown except those who use 290 and 249. The 290 situation involves getting on Loop 610 to get to I-10, but that's not really too difficult and you don't gain any time by connecting 290 all the way through. 249, on the other hand, turns into a regular road before connecting to I-45. They could easily convert it, which is not building a new freeway. When I said that I didn't mean conversions or extensions, I meant a new freeway like building I-40 or State Hwy 5555 or Grand Parkway. They are already expanding 249 north of Compaq or making some kind of toll road by-pass (I haven't seen it yet), and so if they're going to do that, then they should do it to the south as well, since there are more people traveling toward downtown than there are people traveling north of Tomball. I don't even need to look up traffic statistics, it's just common sense.

By the way, I do not support the building of the 290/Hempstead Hwy Toll Rd that has been proposed, as that would be a new freeway as I see it. If those people in Black Horse Ranch who live way out there are complaining about the commute time being 90 minutes to Loop 610, it's their own fault for buying into the housing boom. They never should have overbuilt the 290 corridor past Telge, that was a huge mistake. Unfortunately, we have no zoning to stop it, and if I lived in Cypress, which is a very nice area to live in my opinion, I would use 290 a few times a year to go visit the city of Houston, and try and take part in making my own area/community self-sufficient.

ROFL Who's kidding who? It might have been helpful had you shared your personal and rather idiosyncratic definition of "new freeway". From my point of view (and I would suggest from the point of view of the standard usage of our shared language), a segment of "freeway" that is "new" and is indeed a "freeway," is what we call a "new freeway," espcially in this situation where the "extension" has never been planned.

If it is "their own fault" for those people living in Black Horse Ranch beyond the current freeway infrastructure, why is it not likewise "their own fault" for people living in the 249 corridor who want to get downtown? In fact, it is fair to suggest that it is MORE "their own fault," since the extension of 249 into downtown has never been planned, whereas new freeways (including the Grand Parkway) have been on planning maps for those areas further out.

Now, to your overriding point to the effect that we should not build new freeways because that's the only way to get people out of their cars and into mass transit. The sections from downtown to the loop, and to a slightly lesser extent to the Beltway,are exactly the sections of the metro area where mass transit is most likely to be able to replace some freeway demand, far more so than will ever be the case in the Grand Parkway corridor. How, exactly, would building a new freeway from the Beltway to I-45 or downtown in the northwest sector serve your stated goal of getting people out of cars and onto mass transit? I'm not following your logic.

[Trae]

The Grand Parkway was planned before 249 was planned.

[PureAuteur]

The 249 corrridor isn't overbuilt, plus there is I-45 for those who live in between to take their pick. 290 doesn't have any alternatives nearby, and it keeps getting worse every year. I remember when 290 and 1960 was considered way out there, now it's like halfway down the line. I remember when 5-7pm was the only bad time to be on 290, and any other time was smooth sailing. Now the only good time to get on is after 11pm at night and between 11am and 2pm.

I live off 290 and I commute to U of H central campus, sometimes hitting the worst traffic imaginable on the way home. By choice? no. I'm trying to move out of my parents house. I know what bad traffic looks like, and 249 is not bad at all going southbound. I don't scold the 249 people because that area is established and was well planned in regard to traffic density all the way up to Tomball. 290 development is a joke, and any traffic/residential planner of the 60s or 70s, if they were still young today, would be either laughing or crying.

Oh, and about the 249 south extension, it wouldn't serve my stated goal. I don't even know why I said that. I sometimes go off on tangents or say things that are just somehow relatable to begin the post. I have to be careful how I begin my posts. The 249 extension to downtown would just be a temporary solution to a big annoyance, and probably would not have a cost that outweighs the need, nor would it take too long to complete. (It's not like we're widening a freeway to 20 lanes).

What is with the Grand Parkway anyways? It would basically just make it easier to get from suburb to suburb. What's the purpose of that? If I live in Klein, I shouldn't have any reason to commute to Cypress by freeway, unless I have a girlfriend there that I'm constantly going to see. Any loop that's that big is simply backwards thinking.

[Houston19514]

What is with the Grand Parkway anyways? It would basically just make it easier to get from suburb to suburb. What's the purpose of that? If I live in Klein, I shouldn't have any reason to commute to Cypress by freeway, unless I have a girlfriend there that I'm constantly going to see. Any loop that's that big is simply backwards thinking.

Not everyone works downtown. There is and always will be a tremendous amount of suburb-to-suburb commuting for work, as well as for shopping, dining, and, I guess for visiting girlfriends. The Loop and Beltway 8 serve the same purpose, and it seems that plenty of people have found reasons to use both. (I guess everyone needs to move to the same suburb as their girlfriend). The loop, beltway, and Grand Parkway, also serve as gathering/dispersal facilities, so that people can take a freeway to the radial freeways. Really quite an efficient freeway network.

[Trae]

Not everyone works downtown. There is and always will be a tremendous amount of suburb-to-suburb commuting for work, as well as for shopping, dining, and, I guess for visiting girlfriends. The Loop and Beltway 8 serve the same purpose, and it seems that plenty of people have found reasons to use both. (I guess everyone needs to move to the same suburb as their girlfriend). The loop, beltway, and Grand Parkway, also serve as gathering/dispersal facilities, so that people can take a freeway to the radial freeways. Really quite an efficient freeway network.

Yeah, if someone was living in the Bridgelands, and wanted to come down and shop at the Grand in Katy or visit a sibling or friend in Cinco Ranch, all they had to do was use the Grand Parkway. That, instead of going down Fry to Clay and all of that. The Grand Parkway could also be used as a route to Galveston from the western and northwestern suburbs. The GP is not all bad.

[Montrose1100]

What kind of backwards-assed home buyer spends all their money buying a home that uses a freeway that doesn't even connect into town?

But it does my dear Niche. Its as easy as 1, 2, 3! 249- South, Beltway 8/Sam Houston Tollway- West or East, and then its up to you! I'm sure you already know that. But I love how the on ramp from the Sam Houston Tollway directly onto 249 is reserved for Easy Taggers only.

Mass transit is a very poor substitute for the Grand Parkway. It is best suited for radial connections between the urban core and the suburbs.

Sounds like you just want to trade one form of inconvenient dependency for another much more expensive and inconvenient one. Jeez, has ANYBODY ever read and understood my hypothesis that suburban and urban areas need one another? Perhaps that should be written up in full in my signature, since it bears so much repetition...

Wasn't it typed for PureAuteur? Or was it someone else?

[Mark F. Barnes]

The 249 corrridor isn't overbuilt, plus there is I-45 for those who live in between to take their pick. 290 doesn't have any alternatives nearby, and it keeps getting worse every year. I remember when 290 and 1960 was considered way out there, now it's like halfway down the line. I remember when 5-7pm was the only bad time to be on 290, and any other time was smooth sailing. Now the only good time to get on is after 11pm at night and between 11am and 2pm.

I live off 290 and I commute to U of H central campus, sometimes hitting the worst traffic imaginable on the way home. By choice? no. I'm trying to move out of my parents house. I know what bad traffic looks like, and 249 is not bad at all going southbound. I don't scold the 249 people because that area is established and was well planned in regard to traffic density all the way up to Tomball. 290 development is a joke, and any traffic/residential planner of the 60s or 70s, if they were still young today, would be either laughing or crying.

Oh, and about the 249 south extension, it wouldn't serve my stated goal. I don't even know why I said that. I sometimes go off on tangents or say things that are just somehow relatable to begin the post. I have to be careful how I begin my posts. The 249 extension to downtown would just be a temporary solution to a big annoyance, and probably would not have a cost that outweighs the need, nor would it take too long to complete. (It's not like we're widening a freeway to 20 lanes).

What is with the Grand Parkway anyways? It would basically just make it easier to get from suburb to suburb. What's the purpose of that? If I live in Klein, I shouldn't have any reason to commute to Cypress by freeway, unless I have a girlfriend there that I'm constantly going to see. Any loop that's that big is simply backwards thinking.

Grand-parkway also falls into the I-69 corridor scheme which will be a direct route from Laredo o Chicago. If you look at the TxDOT sight and review the I-69 section you'll see that. And with all the growth out in Katy there are a lot of people that have to commute to the Woodlands or vise verse. Conoco Phillips started a trend out that direction, and future is abroad not downtown.

The plan for 249 will extend it completely to hwy 6 just South of Navasota via Hwy 105 so it will eventually take over FM 1774 where it ends now by 2013. Believe it or not there are quite a few commuters that drive from Bryan College Station in.

[MaxConcrete]

The 249 tolled main lanes northward from around Boudreaux are being studied by TxDOT and are on a list of high priority projects (see the video from last month's Commission meeting). As soon as it is toll feasible it should move forward and tolls could be very high since it will likely be privatized. If Perry and his toll henchmen don't survive the November elections, things could change.

HCTRA once was studying a toll road along the railroad corridor from the south terminus of 249 (at BW 8) to Loop 610. As far as I know that is dead because the railroad did not want to relinquish any right-of-way and NIMBY interests in Oak Forest started to make noise.

[ENGcons]

You want to kill the 249 expansion to *cough* College Station *cough* excuse me Navsota, and You want to kill the Grand Parkway, and the Hempstead Highway Tollroad, and all this tollroad expansion? Then vote Rick Perry out of office. He goes, many of these projects would be shot down by his competition.

[Mark F. Barnes]

You want to kill the 249 expansion to *cough* College Station *cough* excuse me Navsota, and You want to kill the Grand Parkway, and the Hempstead Highway Tollroad, and all this tollroad expansion? Then vote Rick Perry out of office. He goes, many of these projects would be shot down by his competition.

These projects were on the books long before he was ever there!

The conversion of 249 into a freeway north of BW8 was masterminded by Bob Lanier. Bob Lanier is a wealthy Houston developer who was chairman of the Texas Transportation Commission in the 1980's. During this time, he set the wheels in Houston for many large freeway construction projects, including 249 and the massive 59 north expansion. Bob Lanier went on to become Mayor of Houston in 1991, and his first action when taking office was to kill the planned monorail system. He was forced out of office by term limits in 1997.

Get your facts straight *cough* *cough*

http://www.texasfreeway.com/Houston/new_freeway/249.shtml

[mrfootball]

A brilliant idea to expand the freeway upstream, while doing nothing to relieve the congestion downstream...

What is it with these people? Have they no common sense?

[ENGcons]

Get your facts straight? Let me educate you on how building highways works.

These projects were on the books probably before you were born depending on your age. It takes an incredibly long time to get these projects rolling due to the planning stages of where it is going to go, land aquisistion, impact studies, approval, funding, design, and finally construction. Some projects never get built, but shelved for years until the money is there. Perry didn't create these himself, but his current position is to build bigger highways, and make them tollraods to generate money for the State. Rick Perry is a major cheerleader for many of these projects, Texas Trans Corridor, Grand Parkway, and anything else that ha the word Tollroad attached. And he has no problem getting foreign investors to fund the building of these tollroads.

What I am saying is that these wish list roads will probably "die on the vine" if he doesn't get re-elected. His opponents have publicly said they oppose building more tollroads, Hell Strayhorn even says it in her commercials.

I know you want your precious aggie highway from Houston to College Station built so you can get to the Motherland easier but some of us would rather have that money spent elswhere where it is needed like education.

[Houston19514]

Get your facts straight? Let me educate you on how building highways works.

These projects were on the books probably before you were born depending on your age. It takes an incredibly long time to get these projects rolling due to the planning stages of where it is going to go, land aquisistion, impact studies, approval, funding, design, and finally construction. Some projects never get built, but shelved for years until the money is there. Perry didn't create these himself, but his current position is to build bigger highways, and make them tollraods to generate money for the State. Rick Perry is a major cheerleader for many of these projects, Texas Trans Corridor, Grand Parkway, and anything else that ha the word Tollroad attached. And he has no problem getting foreign investors to fund the building of these tollroads.

What I am saying is that these wish list roads will probably "die on the vine" if he doesn't get re-elected. His opponents have publicly said they oppose building more tollroads, Hell Strayhorn even says it in her commercials.

I know you want your precious aggie highway from Houston to College Station built so you can get to the Motherland easier but some of us would rather have that money spent elswhere where it is needed like education.

If you want the "money spent elsewhere" it would seem like tollroads should be the answer to your prayers, especially the privately-funded variety. The folks who put up the bond money to build a toll road, whether as owners of the toll road or as lenders, do so with their returns tied to the tolls collected on the road. You can't fund education that way.

A brilliant idea to expand the freeway upstream, while doing nothing to relieve the congestion downstream...

What is it with these people? Have they no common sense?

What are you talking about? They are planning the expansion of 290 even as we type, not to mention the possibility of commuter rail in the northwest sector.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Get your facts straight? Let me educate you on how building highways works.

These projects were on the books probably before you were born depending on your age. It takes an incredibly long time to get these projects rolling due to the planning stages of where it is going to go, land aquisistion, impact studies, approval, funding, design, and finally construction. Some projects never get built, but shelved for years until the money is there. Perry didn't create these himself, but his current position is to build bigger highways, and make them tollraods to generate money for the State. Rick Perry is a major cheerleader for many of these projects, Texas Trans Corridor, Grand Parkway, and anything else that ha the word Tollroad attached. And he has no problem getting foreign investors to fund the building of these tollroads.

What I am saying is that these wish list roads will probably "die on the vine" if he doesn't get re-elected. His opponents have publicly said they oppose building more tollroads, Hell Strayhorn even says it in her commercials.

I know you want your precious aggie highway from Houston to College Station built so you can get to the Motherland easier but some of us would rather have that money spent elswhere where it is needed like education.

Well when I was born Ike hadn't taken his oath yet a president of the US, he didn't do that until January 20, 1953. Son I remember the days of no interstate highways. I was a kid but I do remember. The interstate system was authorized by the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956, popularly known as the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act of 1956. What we now call the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways, so I think the SH 249 Extension Project was not a twinke in anyones eye. As matter of fact SH 249 did no even exist. So now that we have gotten past your petty attempt at condescension.

If you "really" knew how powerless the governor is, you'd know that it is traditional in American politics to hold the chief executive responsible for a government