METRORail University Line

[AftonAg]

Normally I wouldn't respond to your posts but I couldn't help but take note of your back-handed, racist remark. This is not the place for juvenile, racist rants. You would do well to take it elsewhere before you get so out of hand as to be reported.

I figured you would play the race card sooner or later . . . . if you think that referring to METRO as MUTTRO is a racist slur I must commend you on your vivid and misguided imagination, to wit:

The American Heritage Dictionary (Third Edition) sitting on my desk defines mutt as 1) A mongrel dog, 2) A person regarded as stupid (short for muttonhead). Further the very same dictionary defines mongrel as 1) an animal or plant resulting from various interbreedings, esp. a dog of mixed or undetermined breed. 2) a cross between different breeds, groups, or varieties, esp a mixture that is or appears to be incongruous.

I also used the word cur - and the very same dictionary defines that as 1) a dog considered to be inferior or undesirable, a mongrel. 2) a base or cowardly person.

If anyone was really and truly offended that was not my intent, nor do I believe that it was in any way shape or form a racial slur. I believe that it was just a conveinient point to attack on the part of NMAIN

[Pumapayam]

Who needs paralegals and lawyers, I think we all do a good job analyzing each others comments with good rebuttals. . .continue!

[nmainguy]

Who needs paralegals and lawyers, I think we all do a good job analyzing each others comments with good rebuttals. . .continue!

Rebuttals are fine...if accurate. Take trees for example: METRO stated they will not only NOT remove trees; they have budgeted for MORE trees just as they did for the Red Line-over 1000 added, I believe. Now THAT is a rebuttal to one of the many lies perpetrated by the anti-rail AOers.

Using the term "rebuttal" to disguise an excuse for backhanded racial slams is just that: a lame attempt at hiding a real bias.

[Pumapayam]

Rebuttals are fine...if accurate. Take trees for example: METRO stated they will not only NOT remove trees; they have budgeted for MORE trees just as they did for the Red Line-over 1000 added, I believe. Now THAT is a rebuttal to one of the many lies perpetrated by the anti-rail AOers.

Using the term "rebuttal" to disguise an excuse for backhanded racial slams is just that: a lame attempt at hiding a real bias.

I agree about the trees, just looking at the recent west loop upgrade and seeing all the wonderful tree planted in such a small space really does wonders for the look of the freeway.

It will look very green in a few years.

[AftonAg]

Rebuttals are fine...if accurate. Take trees for example: METRO stated they will not only NOT remove trees; they have budgeted for MORE trees just as they did for the Red Line-over 1000 added, I believe. Now THAT is a rebuttal to one of the many lies perpetrated by the anti-rail AOers.

Using the term "rebuttal" to disguise an excuse for backhanded racial slams is just that: a lame attempt at hiding a real bias.

And referring to a non-existent "racial slam" over and over does not make it true. It just shows that the poster has a deep seated problem coming out on the losing end and is now grasping at straws by playing the "race card".

[ricco67]

Ag,

We're used to looking at grasped straws and will generally call it as we see it, even amoung ourselves.

The only issue I see with "Muttro" along with "Dixie Chunks" and other pointless forms of namecalling is that I find it quite childish.

I don't like it when it's used by Rush,Hannity, etc, but I also don't like it when it's used by Franken or a couple of people from the left.

It's just being uncivil.

And you should know how I feel about civility considering I've batted down my fellow HAIFers for taking you on perhaps you should show the same respect I had them due to you in spite of position you take on this issue.

[AftonAg]

Ag,

We're used to looking at grasped straws and will generally call it as we see it, even amoung ourselves.

The only issue I see with "Muttro" along with "Dixie Chunks" and other pointless forms of namecalling is that I find it quite childish.

I don't like it when it's used by Rush,Hannity, etc, but I also don't like it when it's used by Franken or a couple of people from the left.

It's just being uncivil.

And you should know how I feel about civility considering I've batted down my fellow HAIFers for taking you on perhaps you should show the same respect I had them due to you in spite of position you take on this issue.

Point taken Ricco.

[infinite_jim]

I don't care where the rail goes as long as it is built,

b/c Houston is ephemeral and can change overnight.

[lockmat]

I don't care where the rail goes as long as it is built,

b/c Houston is ephemeral and can change overnight.

I tend to agree, but it needs to have stops somewhat close to important locations. Of course they're not just gonna throw it down anywhere, but I think wherever they put it, even if it doesn't go through already developed area, TOD will grow around it.

And I'm not really familiar with that area. The plans for this line for sure and I'm sure the other the lines are TOD. Will there be room to grow around and along these rails for that kind of developement? Urban growth like mixed-development? Or are there already businesses and residential that wouldn't allow any room for that?

[tierwestah]

I tend to agree, but it needs to have stops somewhat close to important locations. Of course they're not just gonna throw it down anywhere, but I think wherever they put it, even if it doesn't go through already developed area, TOD will grow around it.

And I'm not really familiar with that area. The plans for this line for sure and I'm sure the other the lines are TOD. Will there be room to grow around and along these rails for that kind of developement? Urban growth like mixed-development? Or are there already businesses and residential that wouldn't allow any room for that?

One thing i'm a little stumped about.

I drove down Westpark after church the other day. If you're traveling west on Westpark near Weslayan, There's a small shopping Plaza on the left hand side. This sits directly across the freeway from Greenway. It seems like it might generate alot of walkability and pedestrain activity. Also there's a few shops that have their back faced to Westpark on the right side of Westpark (traveling West on Westpark), which is a bad thing.

If rail is run through this area, does anyone think they might build on that empty area between those shops that have the back facing Westpark to improve the appearance of the area? Right now it kind of looks like a dungeon.

[TheNiche]

One thing i'm a little stumped about.

I drove down Westpark after church the other day. If you're traveling west on Westpark near Weslayan, There's a small shopping Plaza on the left hand side. This sits directly across the freeway from Greenway. It seems like it might generate alot of walkability and pedestrain activity. Also there's a few shops that have their back faced to Westpark on the right side of Westpark (traveling West on Westpark), which is a bad thing.

If rail is run through this area, does anyone think they might build on that empty area between those shops that have the back facing Westpark to improve the appearance of the area? Right now it kind of looks like a dungeon.

You know, I just glanced at Google Earth to see what you were talking about...it occured to me that the whole strip between the Westpark ROW and the Southwest Freeway is an astoundingly good place for TOD. It runs from about Shepherd to the UP railroad tracks, and the best spots would be between Buffalo Speedway and Weslayan.

Think about it. Those properties would have frontage and visibility on the feeder roads, a major thoroughfare that becomes a toll road connecting to Westchase and the Energy Corridor area, and to top it all off, light rail service to DT, TMC, the universities, the museums, and eventually Uptown. Hotels are a no-brainer, but so is office space, retail, and of course residential.

[tierwestah]

You know, I just glanced at Google Earth to see what you were talking about...it occured to me that the whole strip between the Westpark ROW and the Southwest Freeway is an astoundingly good place for TOD. It runs from about Shepherd to the UP railroad tracks, and the best spots would be between Buffalo Speedway and Weslayan.

Think about it. Those properties would have frontage and visibility on the feeder roads, a major thoroughfare that becomes a toll road connecting to Westchase and the Energy Corridor area, and to top it all off, light rail service to DT, TMC, the universities, the museums, and eventually Uptown. Hotels are a no-brainer, but so is office space, retail, and of course residential.

So in other words that means "Yes" right?

[TheNiche]

So in other words that means "Yes" right?

Walkability, no. Not really. TOD, yes.

[Highway6]

Walkability, no. Not really. TOD, yes.

No walkability just due to the freeway overpasses. yeah... but the distance to Richmond really isn't so bad.

Far fetched dream.. but what could be nice is if they just go ahead and submerge the rest of 59 from Shepherd to the Loop... but instead of just sink it... cover it with greenspace, bike trails and the lightrail...

Then you'd have existing "where the people are" to one side and Westpark strip "TOD" to the other side.. without disturbing any residential property.

Could have been nice...

[KinkaidAlum]

No walkability just due to the freeway overpasses. yeah... but the distance to Richmond really isn't so bad.

Far fetched dream.. but what could be nice is if they just go ahead and submerge the rest of 59 from Shepherd to the Loop... but instead of just sink it... cover it with greenspace, bike trails and the lightrail...

Then you'd have existing "where the people are" to one side and Westpark strip "TOD" to the other side.. without disturbing any residential property.

Could have been nice...

That would be super nice. Of course, that would mean inner city Houston would be a place people would want to live in rather than just drive by on their way home to wherever they live outside of the city (SugarLand, Missouri City, Richmond, Pecan Grove, First Colony, Stafford, etc...). Developers wouldn't want that and it is quite clear that developers still run this region.

[TheNiche]

That would be super nice. Of course, that would mean inner city Houston would be a place people would want to live in rather than just drive by on their way home to wherever they live outside of the city (SugarLand, Missouri City, Richmond, Pecan Grove, First Colony, Stafford, etc...). Developers wouldn't want that and it is quite clear that developers still run this region.

You know, the area around Greenway Plaza is presently a hotspot for multifamily development in the Inner Loop market. There are, if I recall, four or five big complexes going up. Doesn't seem like road noise matters all that much to developers. In fact, as I've covered in another thread, apartment complexes overlooking a freeway often have a competitive advantage over those that don't. Strange, but true.

Seriously, do you believe that suburban developers care enough that a mile or so of inner-city freeway is trenched to get all vocal about it and expend political capital? The demographic profile of their customers is entirely different...and you know what? If their customers went urban, those customers would need housing. ...and who would provide it to them? Developers, that's who. [sarcasm]Those evil bastards, always building things for people.[/sarcasm]

[tierwestah]

What is TOD? I ain't no an expert in the terminology?

[WesternGulf]

Transit Oriented Development.

[tierwestah]

Thanks.

I think even that's good enough. Dallas primarily has Transit oriented development which might generate people walking around by it getting people out of their cars. I personally don't see much difference because the end result, we will see more people walking around

[GovernorAggie]

You know, I just glanced at Google Earth to see what you were talking about...it occured to me that the whole strip between the Westpark ROW and the Southwest Freeway is an astoundingly good place for TOD. It runs from about Shepherd to the UP railroad tracks, and the best spots would be between Buffalo Speedway and Weslayan.

Think about it. Those properties would have frontage and visibility on the feeder roads, a major thoroughfare that becomes a toll road connecting to Westchase and the Energy Corridor area, and to top it all off, light rail service to DT, TMC, the universities, the museums, and eventually Uptown. Hotels are a no-brainer, but so is office space, retail, and of course residential.

While I think that has great potential--to go from scratch, and I agree with your points about freeway frontage, does that apply to living right next to and developing underneath all of those high-tension power lines? How desirable would it be to live next to them? Would Centerpoint (or whoever) allow dense (even multilevel) development clustered around such a prominent utility area? What do you think?

[ricco67]

While all this sounds fascinating and i'm not thrilled by the potential alignments that are going in, a jog north from weselyan (god, I can't spell this morning..) or Edloe would be fine, depending on where the stations are placed, it would redevelop that whole area.

The question is, will light rail make a stop along the westpark route? I think a stop by the kroger would be awesome, just for the sake that people can get SOME errands done on the way home.

It's a pity that the Retirement home wouldn't be closer, I'm sure some of the residents would appreciate the access.

[Pumapayam]

It's a pity that the Retirement home wouldn't be closer, I'm sure some of the residents would appreciate the access.

It might encourage them to walk a bit more to the stop. . .just messing, but yes I agree. So many alignment issues it is hard to please everyone.

I will just accept whatever we get, let's just get rails in the road.

[TheNiche]

While I think that has great potential--to go from scratch, and I agree with your points about freeway frontage, does that apply to living right next to and developing underneath all of those high-tension power lines? How desirable would it be to live next to them? Would Centerpoint (or whoever) allow dense (even multilevel) development clustered around such a prominent utility area? What do you think?

Hmmm, I can't remember how those transmission lines are laid out east of the RR tracks. I know that Centerpoint wouldn't be too concerned about it. There are office buildings further west that are relatively near the lines.

[tierwestah]

I will just accept whatever we get, let's just get rails in the road.

hells yeah.

Let's just start making SOME progress

[lockmat]

hells yeah.

Let's just start making SOME progress

I'm pretty sure metro's website says they intend to break ground on all the lines in spring or early summer of 2007 and completed by '09 or '10 I think.

[AftonAg]

No walkability just due to the freeway overpasses. yeah... but the distance to Richmond really isn't so bad.

Far fetched dream.. but what could be nice is if they just go ahead and submerge the rest of 59 from Shepherd to the Loop... but instead of just sink it... cover it with greenspace, bike trails and the lightrail...

Then you'd have existing "where the people are" to one side and Westpark strip "TOD" to the other side.. without disturbing any residential property.

Could have been nice...

Submerging 59 from Shepherd all the way to the loop sounds like a good idea, but covering it doesn't seem so good. In essence you would have a very long tunnel. Remember Tropical Storm Allison? Remember what that part of 59 looked like? I recall a picture of a kayaker going under one of the bridges - he could barely squeeze the kayak under the bridge. It would also create a trap for fire and smoke when there is an accident, and carbon monoxide all of the time. Maybe if they just went with columns down the median and then put a platform on that to run the LRT's it could work.

I say this hypothetically of course because since it is change and will create more traffic on Richmond and in, around and through AO I have to be officially against it. <SARCASM>

I will just accept whatever we get,

And that Puma is the major difference between you and the AO crowd.

[ricco67]

Submerging 59 from Shepherd all the way to the loop sounds like a good idea, but covering it doesn't seem so good. In essence you would have a very long tunnel. Remember Tropical Storm Allison? Remember what that part of 59 looked like? I recall a picture of a kayaker going under one of the bridges - he could barely squeeze the kayak under the bridge. It would also create a trap for fire and smoke when there is an accident, and carbon monoxide all of the time. Maybe if they just went with columns down the median and then put a platform on that to run the LRT's it could work.

I say this hypothetically of course because since it is change and will create more traffic on Richmond and in, around and through AO I have to be officially against it. <SARCASM>

Aag beat me to it, and as much as I would hate to agree with him, he has a point.

while the big dig in boston is successful engineering wise (sans a few falling tiles), our storms have a tendency to overwhelm drainage and pumping stations.

The underpass on I-10 near Wayside yesterday is an excellent example along with Allison's effect on I-10 and I-59.

A subway for a train would be safer in the fact that once flooding starts, Metro can simply stop all traffic until the flooding goes away.

[Pumapayam]

And that Puma is the major difference between you and the AO crowd.

I just want progress, something, we wasted so much more money on these special committees, investigations, and meetings, all of which discuss something that essentially is really good for the city.

They use the excuse they lack funding to make LRT and use BRT, when I am sure if people would not cause so many delays and extra work, (which cost extra $$$ not in the original scope, but has to come from somewhere), funding for LRT would not be an issue.

[Highway6]

Submerging 59 from Shepherd all the way to the loop sounds like a good idea, but covering it doesn't seem so good. In essence you would have a very long tunnel. Remember Tropical Storm Allison? Remember what that part of 59 looked like? I recall a picture of a kayaker going under one of the bridges - he could barely squeeze the kayak under the bridge. It would also create a trap for fire and smoke when there is an accident, and carbon monoxide all of the time. Maybe if they just went with columns down the median and then put a platform on that to run the LRT's it could work.

Our freeway trenches are meant to flood if needed. You speak as if it is a bad thing. Flood and rain happen, might as well control it as well as possible and take out a few cars instead of a few houses.

Yes it could be a tunnel... Tunnels are designed and built all the time, and they are deisgned not to flood and to have exhaust systems. There is even one movement afoot to have 45 tunnel under Memorial, the bayou, and Allan parkway as it goes around downtown. So, tunnels can be achieved here, and saying 'but we flood" is a lame excuse.

Just a platform down the middle with a raised track defeats the entire point of my dream. The point was, the only thing better than Richmond and Westpark would be a 2 mile, 250' wide stretch of park space with lots of trees, biketrails, foun tains, a lightrail stop or two, perhaps a couple dozen cotton candy vendors.

Now you got one side with existing high density, and the other side ripe for redevelopment between the park and Westpark.

It's the walk (traffic and freeway underpasses) that make Westpark so damn unappealing now..... i'm just picturing what could be instead.

Hey.. it's my ridiculously over the top and expensive dream.. stop poo'n on it.

[AftonAg]

Aag beat me to it, and as much as I would hate to agree with him, he has a point.

while the big dig in boston is successful engineering wise (sans a few falling tiles), our storms have a tendency to overwhelm drainage and pumping stations.

The underpass on I-10 near Wayside yesterday is an excellent example along with Allison's effect on I-10 and I-59.

A subway for a train would be safer in the fact that once flooding starts, Metro can simply stop all traffic until the flooding goes away.

Ricco -

it seems like just yesterday we agreed to disagree - so this makes twice??? LOL