Houston Sucks?

[ssullivan]

One thing Houston is not though, is green. Seriously folks, if I see another pro-Houston piece of propaganda touting it's endless open spaces and hundreds of parks, I think I'll vomit from the sheer ridiculousness. Memorial Park. Big freakin whoopty doo. An inaccessible open land set FAR away from downtown accesible mainly by car and of no real use to anyone living within the confines of the city.

I agree with several of the points in your post but on this one I think you're wrong. Memorial Park is highly used by the residents of the city. Yes, you almost do have to have a car to get there, although it is on two Metro bus routes (7 and 70). The jogging trails, bike trails, golf course, picnic areas, and athletic fields are used by thousands of people every day. I frequently go to the park to walk the loop trail and it's always packed with people from all over the city. I frequently run into people I know in the park on the trail who live in Montrose, Midtown, the Medical Center area, and The Heights. I'd also argue that Hermann Park is a very fine inner-city park, and is most definitely a location you don't have to drive to if coming from downtown or Midtown.

As for Houston being green, that claim goes well beyond the parks, which I do agree we need more of. Houston is a very green city mainly because of all of the trees. Yes, we have many areas with no trees, and much of the city's west side south of Buffalo Bayou has never had much in the way of trees, even before the city was built. But look at the Memorial Villages, River Oaks, Heights, West U, Bellaire, Southhampton, Shadyside, and many other neighborhoods and you'll see blocks and blocks of streets lined by mature trees. You have to get out of downtown and off the freeways to see it, but there are many areas of the city that are full of trees.

As for Houston having the potential to be "cooler than LA," I personally think it already is. I've never been all that impressed by LA, but to each his own.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[houstonsemipro]

I can't see people moving to L.A. cause it's earthquakes on the coast, and 120 degrees in the desert. They need to change L.A. to SHAKE and BAKE U.S.A.

[N8TIV]

One thing Houston is not though, is green. Seriously folks, if I see another pro-Houston piece of propaganda touting it's endless open spaces and hundreds of parks, I think I'll vomit from the sheer ridiculousness. Memorial Park. Big freakin whoopty doo. An inaccessible open land set FAR away from downtown accesible mainly by car and of no real use to anyone living within the confines of the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you joking?

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[ssullivan]

No No, He's being serious. The whole how many ever weeks he spent illegally squatting in various buildings downtown before moving on to another city to leech off of, I'm sure he spent his days walking the barren streets of Houston. 

This was also while he was noticing how stupid we are for not having extensive light rail & subway running from grandparkway to the east belt.

Glen

LOL. Very true.

[firstngoal]

I'm not even from Houston or Texas for that matter, (boo hiss!) but I've spent enough time living in the CBD and Midtown to understand what y'all are talking about. I agree that, right now, the city is pretty lousy. Nowhere near the three cities more populated than it, in terms of desireablity to live there. But it was worse 1 year ago. What's that mean? Things are changing, and you can feel it. There's definitely a sense of improvement and people really taking a pride in their city, and creating something to be proud of. Not only when the relatives come over for a wedding, but when you're walking (or taking Metrorail) to your place of employment, or when you're going out to eat. Being an outsider, I think I feel it a little bit more than most. The city has SOOOOO much potential to be cooler than LA or maybe even Chicago. And I want in on the ground level.

One thing Houston is not though, is green. Seriously folks, if I see another pro-Houston piece of propaganda touting it's endless open spaces and hundreds of parks, I think I'll vomit from the sheer ridiculousness. Memorial Park. Big freakin whoopty doo. An inaccessible open land set FAR away from downtown accesible mainly by car and of no real use to anyone living within the confines of the city. I know that being below the flood plain requires that you cover everything in cement, but at the very least, put a few benches in it. Oh yeah, and the Bayou. I don't think much needs to be said about that.

And don't even start blaming it on homeless people. They have absolutely nothing to do with it. Go look at Market street in bustling, beautiful, thriving, world renowned San Francisco if you don't believe me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I appreciate your perspective... and actually think you are right on most counts. I would mention; however, that Hermann Park is a real gem of a park and is easily accessible from three different light rail stations. It deserves some praise - as much as the knocking of some of our more aesthetically challenged areas.

Hermann Park reflects the change in course of this city over the past five to seven years. That park used to be a real problem (and not so long ago) and certainly was not one of our proudest public spaces. Today, Hermann Park has a totally new face with much improved facilities. It incorporates some of the best principles of civic design of any park I've seen in the nation - whether it be in the newly finished reflection pool to the reconfigured and landscaped thoroughfares. Being able to hop off the light rail now and walk into Hermann Park in one direction or the beautiful grounds (and architecture) of Rice University in the other is something rather unique... particularly in the auto-dominated Sunbelt. Whichever direction you choose, you can experience some fine green spaces of good size...

I am with you that some of other spaces need improvement - particularly the bayou system. But that is changing, too... there are many projects along the banks either currently under development or on the drawing boards. Houston City Council recently passed an impressive master plan for Memorial Park. Sure, I think we all agree that our parks and green spaces need work - and do not rank with New York or Chicago or Boston (yet). But give the city some time (like any great city)... we are definitely headed in the right direction...

[713 To 214]

What squatterkid seems to be referring to when he speaks of parks is the lack of parks in and around downtown. Yes, no one can doubt that Hermann is a cool park (went there a lot of Sundays when I was a kid). However, the zoo needs some work. But what squatterkid is saying is that besides Hermann, there are just a few other parks in and around downtown. No one here can deny that Houston doesn't really place parks high on its to-do-list. Just go to your city council meetings (I do) to find this out.

and please. . . no more post like this:

The only thing they have that we don't are: hills, beaches, & Hollywood.

That's a lot!

our streets aren't infested with tourists everywhere, slowing down daily traffic.

So, by your own admission, Houston is not this world class/international city that everyone wants to visit. and as for traffic. . . Houstonians don't need tourists for that. . . They've got traffic covered all by themselves!

[MidtownCoog]

That park (Herman) used to be a real problem.

I love it when people make stuff up for the internet.

Make up another one.

[tony]

Parks Smarks. Why do Houstonians keep harping about more parks? There are a lot of parks inside the loop--Memorial and Hermann are the biggest but there are others. I live and work in close proximity to Hermann Park and am either in it or driving by every day. Most of the time it is relatively empty, even the parimeters. On the south side are always a few runners and medicals hanging out. On the west, the Rice side, not a soul. On the north, maybe a baby carriage, maybe not. On the east, aside from the golf clubers and couples doing something illicit in the parking lot near Holcombe, nothing. In the spring there are, at times, hundreds of yellow school buses that say Conroe ISD or something using the park for (what else) parking as their patrons visit the Natural History Museum. And then there is the other half of the day, night. I have on several occasions walked into the park alone after sunset. Why not, it's free, there, and a place to be alone to get a breath. But it's not advisable. My point? The parks are underused by Houstonians because a good portion of the time they are very dangerous places. This is why I have reservations about the new park downtown. Some speak of it as if creating a dead zone in the middle of the city will instantly bring nirvana to a part of downtown in serious need of a drink. Lets say a developer builds a luxury condo across the street from it. I buy because it's nice, convenient to my work and has a permanent view because of the park. Where will my children play? In the park's playground of course. But not by themselves. I'll say, "Play on the sidewalk kids, but don't go into that park without me no matter how many policemen you see." Why the sidewalk? Because there are people around who would likely know them and at least they might stand a chance against a predator. I'm not just being paranoid and I'm not necessarily against more parks for central Houston but what I really think we need is wider sidewalks. Sorry if I'm ranting.

[MidtownCoog]

The parks are underused by Houstonians because a good portion of the time they are very dangerous places.

How about backing up your WAG with some facts?

[The Great Hizzy!]

The question, in my mind is: what type of park are we talking about?

A simple neighborhood park with a playground, basketball court, racquetball/tennis? Or a grand urban park with water falls, outdoor plazas, statuary and what have you.

I think neighborhood parks would seem to be more of a priority because those of the type of parks that are used more often than not. A grand urban park can be a showplace for an area but how many of those do you need in a city of xxx size before it's overkill.

For example, do we need three or four more Herman Parks inside the Loop? I wonder if that would be taking it a bit too far.

I will say, however, that I think Third Ward and the East End could both stand to see at least one good urban park each and probably three or four more neighborhood parks. I can't think of many notable parks east of downtown and inside the Loop besides MacGregor in Riverside and John T. Mason in the East End. I realize that there are a handful of neigborhood parks but I'm talking about large, full service type parks. Given the number of bayous that meander throughout the east and southeast sides, it would seem that more bayou fronting park land could be developed.

[Guest danax]

.  This is why I have reservations about the new park downtown. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see it being a new development for the homeless. I'm not trying to be negative but that one park near Toyota Center was packed with homeless campers laid out on the grass a few Saturday mornings ago. Hardly enough room to walk.

The kinds of parks that are most used these days are medium sized ones with a nice track, a playground, activities center and a couple of sports fields. Although nice to have, the small, downtown ones like Tranquility seem more for green space/eye candy than for practical use.

[MidtownCoog]

bayou fronting park land could be developed.

You would think.

But then look at McGregor Park. They put a fence along the bayou a couple of years ago.

That stretch of bayou towards Wayside has a lot of potential.

[firstngoal]

I love it when people make stuff up for the internet.

Make up another one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What the...? I didn't make that up... it's true! Why would you say I "make stuff up for the internet"? What do you base that on, my friend?? Are you familiar with the history of Hermann Park?

I've been a member of the Friends of Hermann Park (now the Hermann Park Conservancy) for over six years and have served on the Advisory Board for three years. I know the park's history intimately... and would have no reason to "make stuff up." I've spent countless hours over the years volunteering to clean and maintain the park. I walked through areas a few years back, off Almeda Rd. in fact (since you are clearly into details), where we found used syringes, abandoned appliances, human waste, among other items that are more disgusting than you could imagine. As McGovern Lake was drained, cleaned, expanded, and enhanced, we found some of those same items. A decade ago, park conditions were filthy, overcrowded, poorly maintained, and simply an embarrassment to the name of those people who had the foresight to set aside this greenspace early in the twentieth century. Would you not define that as a problem??? I pointed out the park's current status to illustrate its remarkable turnaround - in a relatively short amount of time.

[ssullivan]

Parks Smarks.  Why do Houstonians keep harping about more parks?  There are a lot of parks inside the loop--Memorial and Hermann are the biggest but there are others.  I live and work in close proximity to Hermann Park and am either in it or driving by every day.  Most of the time it is relatively empty, even the parimeters.  On the south side are always a few runners and medicals hanging out.  On the west, the Rice side, not a soul. On the north, maybe a baby carriage, maybe not. On the east, aside from the golf clubers and couples doing something illicit in the parking lot near Holcombe, nothing.  In the spring there are, at times, hundreds of yellow school buses that say Conroe ISD or something using the park for (what else) parking as their patrons visit the Natural History Museum. And then there is the other half of the day, night.  I have on several occasions walked into the park alone after sunset.  Why not, it's free, there, and a place to be alone to get a breath. But it's not advisable.  My point?  The parks are underused by Houstonians because a good portion of the time they are very dangerous places.  This is why I have reservations about the new park downtown.  Some speak of it as if creating a dead zone in the middle of the city will  instantly bring nirvana to a part of downtown in serious need of a drink. Lets say a developer builds a luxury condo across the street from it. I buy because it's nice, convenient to my work and has a permanent view because of the park.  Where will my children play?  In the park's playground of course.  But not by themselves.  I'll say, "Play on the sidewalk kids, but don't go into that park without me no matter how many policemen you see."  Why the sidewalk?  Because there are people around who would likely know them and at least they might stand a chance against a predator.  I'm not just being paranoid and I'm not necessarily against more parks for central Houston but what I really think we need is wider sidewalks.  Sorry if I'm ranting.

Hermann Park may be relatively empty on a weekday during the school year because adults are at work and kids are in school. But most of the year try finding a parking place on a sunny weekend. I frequent the park on weekends and there are usually thousands of people there. I wouldn't call it underutilized at all, nor have I ever felt unsafe there or threatened by anyone. Granted I don't go walking through the park alone after dark but when I am there, usually on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, it's always packed unless the weather is bad.

Having visited New York's Central Park and San Francisco's Golden Gate Park on weekday afternoons during the school year, I can assure you that they are relatively empty at those times as well. It's not a Houston thing -- when people are at work and at school of course they aren't using the city parks.

[N Judah]

And don't even start blaming it on homeless people. They have absolutely nothing to do with it. Go look at Market street in bustling, beautiful, thriving, world renowned San Francisco if you don't believe me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't understand your point about Mkt St. 99% of people use Market as a way to get somewhere else. For those of you who haven't seen it, imagine a giant, open-air bus/transit terminal that just happens to have a few nice shops and an indoor shopping mall at one particular intersection. It's not green, it is not park like in the least, and after 9 pm is completely deserted (like Houston parks? well, no, I know for a fact people are jogging around memorial park, even that late at night).

[Guest danax]

Given the number of bayous that meander throughout the east and southeast sides, it would seem that more bayou fronting park land could be developed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You haven't heard about the Buffalo Bayou Master Plan?link. I wondered for years how long it would be before someone took notice of the slow, wild river on the East End, just sitting there surrounded by nothing but abandoned buildings, old light industrial, etc. This stretch of bayou between Downtown and the Ship Channel has sat unnoticed for probably 100 years, until the last few.

We are living in a great time for this city and cities in general. As much as we whine, our future has never looked brighter.

[greystone08(returns)]

  Lets stick to the "easily beaten" cities like Atlanta!

Glen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that notion is riduculous. I lived in Atlanta for all of my teen years and i think its an excellent city. It does face some of the same issues as Houston but unfortunately for Houston, it gets the rougher end of the stick by critics.

Houston as i've seen it, and forgive me, i've only actually lived here for 5 1/2 months so i might not know much. I think however, is a very great city. I think i like Houston mainly because of the diversity of the people. For example, i think Third Ward is a very important sector of the innercity.

I personally would like to see Houston have more street activity, not necessarily like New York or Chicago but perhaps more like a San Antonio or New Orleans in terms of pedestrian/urban density. SA and NO have great urban activity for cities of their size. There are many other smaller cities that have the amendities of larger cities to the point that they almost feel big. Take Reno Nevada for example. IT has only 180,000 residents in the city but has a strip of casinos and things of that nature to award it the title: The biggest little city in the World".

I've found Houston to be rather confusing to me. While its downtown should be the city's primary identity and where most of the activity should take place, Houston is spread out along so many parts of town like the Galleria and Westheimer/Richmond strips. Each area has something the other doesn't. It almost feels like Houston attempted to start over and rebuild itself as another city from what it started out as multiple times. While i do admire that there are different skylines and areas of the city, i find it rather hard to identify what actually says "This is Houston".

As far as downtown progress, from what i gather of all the strides made, i think they're great but it seems a tad inconsistant. Things are seeming a little stagnant right now but i guess if i was here one year ago, i would have noticed the tremendous progress by the openings of light rail and Main Street earlier this year.

All in all, i think Houston is a great city, definitely the best in Texas and probably even one of the best in the South. I just want to see it continue in the right direction it started and kind of speed up the process a little. (Sorry i'm a impatient). When i visited my sister in Denver, Colorado, i witnessed the opening of a light rail, 16th Street Mall, Larimer, and the opening of the Denver Pavilion inside a period of 3-4 years. Houston can do the same thing.

[MidtownCoog]

FWIW

Drove by Root Memorial Park (across from Toyota) this morning.

It has been fenced off, and all the grass ripped up.

Wonder if the Rockers are FINALLY going to build those outdoor courts?

[houstonsemipro]

I think that notion is riduculous. I lived in Atlanta for all of my teen years and i think its an excellent city. It does face some of the same issues as Houston but unfortunately for Houston, it gets the rougher end of the stick by critics.

Houston as i've seen it, and forgive me, i've only actually lived here for 5 1/2 months so i might not know much. I think however, is a very great city. I think i like Houston mainly because of the diversity of the people. For example, i think Third Ward is a very important sector of the innercity.

I personally would like  to see Houston have more street activity, not necessarily  like  New York or Chicago but perhaps more like a San Antonio or New Orleans in terms of pedestrian/urban density.  SA and NO have great urban activity for cities of their size. There are many other smaller cities that have the amendities of larger cities to the point that they almost feel big. Take Reno Nevada for example. IT has only 180,000 residents in the city but has a strip of casinos and things of that nature to award it the title: The biggest little city in the World".

I've found Houston to be rather confusing to me. While its downtown should be the city's primary identity and where most of the activity should take place, Houston is spread out along so many parts of town like the Galleria and Westheimer/Richmond strips. Each area has something the other doesn't. It almost feels like Houston attempted to start over and rebuild itself as another city from what it started out as multiple times. While i do admire that there are different skylines and areas of the city, i find it rather hard to identify what actually says "This is Houston".

As far as downtown progress, from what i gather of all the strides made, i think they're great but it seems a tad inconsistant. Things are seeming a little stagnant right now but i guess if i was here one year ago, i would have noticed the tremendous progress by the openings of light rail and Main Street earlier this year.

All in all, i think Houston is a great city, definitely the best in Texas and probably even one of the best in the South. I just want to see it continue in the right direction it started and kind of speed up the process a little. (Sorry i'm a impatient). When i visited my sister in Denver, Colorado, i witnessed the opening of a light rail, 16th Street Mall, Larimer, and the opening of the Denver Pavilion inside a period of 3-4 years. Houston can do the same thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're so right, Greystone.

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[Back Now]

First, I do hail from New York City and have lived in and out of Houston for a total of twenty three years. I have seen Houston develop (slowly). Since I have returned during the last six months, I have noticed a definate change for the better. Houston still needs to address a few issues, the first being better public transportation. The rail link is a good start but additional lines are needed. Also, midtown in my opinion is a slum waiting to happen. The area lacks charachter, it does not address the need for green space also the area was not allowed to develop it was just built. Neighborhoods require more than just real estate, they need stores, restaurants and parks. The distance between the various venues in Midtown still require a car, which is totally contrary to what an urban center represents. I work in Downtown and I was stopped on the street by a couple from Germany wanting to know what attractions were available to them within walking distance. I was at a loss. I recommended Bayou place and also the Live Stock show and rodeo (via rail). There should be some sort of visitors center in Downtown that is visible for tourists to get questions like that answered. Houston does have alot going for it, the arts, restaurants and very nice people but when those attractions are as far flung as they are it is very difficult to find them. Downtown has gotten alot more vibrant but there needs to be more shopping, not the cookie cutter crap that you see in the Houston Center but more eclectic shops that are available in Montrose or Rice. There is very little originality or higher end wares available there. I do believe this city has great potential but there seems to be a bottleneck of sorts. Instead of another Stadium maybe a cultural center or two or a museum in downtown will also create additional daytime foot traffic.

[editor]

There is a downtown visitor's center, but it is fairly well hidden around the side of city hall.

Other than that, your post was spot on.

[Subdude]

Also, midtown in my opinion is a slum waiting to happen. The area lacks charachter, it does not address the need for green space also the area was not allowed to develop it was just built. Neighborhoods require more than just real estate, they need stores, restaurants and parks. The distance between the various venues in Midtown still require a car, which is totally contrary to what an urban center represents.

*sound of a nail being hit right on the head*

[TJones]

*sound of a nail being hit right on the head*

I am with you on that Sub. Midtown has become a bad version of "SimCity" Build for the sake of building and not a thought about what should go where in oreder for it to grow properly.

[sevfiv]

I am with you on that Sub. Midtown has become a bad version of "SimCity" Build for the sake of building and not a thought about what should go where in oreder for it to grow properly.

interesting comparison...my thoughts are along the same line, but then i wonder how the hell it got that way. is it really what people want? and if not, are these people too lazy or ignorant to not buy in to it?

[BeerNut]

I think midtown will be just fine...

 

sorry about digging this one up from the grave.

[Triton]

I think midtown will be just fine...

 

sorry about digging this one up from the grave.

 

Well, this is during 2006, nearly 10 years ago. Midtown has evolved into one of the best walkable places in the entire city. In fact, I myself regularly board the light rail train from the downtown/Market Square Park scene over to the Midtown area. Easy to walk down McGowen to any bar, all the way to Bagby and beyond.