nmainguy Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Today, the White House kicked off their anti gay marriage Constitutional Amendment campaign. Next week they will kick off their anti flag burning Constitutional Amendment campaign. Do you think it will be effective in driving the November elections or will it be seen as a deflection against the problems people perceive are important in ther lives today-ie inflation, Iraq, gas prices, health care, education, etc...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Today, the White House kicked off their anti gay marriage Constitutional Amendment campaign. Next week they will kick off their anti flag burning Constitutional Amendment campaign. Do you think it will be effective in driving the November elections or will it be seen as a deflection against the problems people perceive are important in ther lives today-ie inflation, Iraq, gas prices, health care, education, etc...?You dont think those things are important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 You dont think those things are important?If you are refering to gay marriage and flag burning-no. I haven't noticed any out break of flag burning and married heterosexuals seem to have no problem destroying their marriages with no help from me. But that wasn't the question. Do you think ithe two issues wil be effective in the upcoming elections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Today, the White House kicked off their anti gay marriage Constitutional Amendment campaign. Next week they will kick off their anti flag burning Constitutional Amendment campaign. Do you think it will be effective in driving the November elections or will it be seen as a deflection against the problems people perceive are important in ther lives today-ie inflation, Iraq, gas prices, health care, education, etc...?I'm not sure why the media does this...but there is a big difference between presidential politics and congressional politics. They confuse people by associating the actions of one person running the executive branch with the beliefs of a whole set of people in a different branch of government. The fact is that whether a Republican or a Democrat from rural Kansas is elected to the House, they're likely to vote along the same patterns. Congressional politics is largely regional.I'd argue that the religious voting block has been largely disappointed after having been mobilized so extensively for the 2004 campaign that there is a sort of learned helplessness that may adversely affect the Republican presidential nominee in 2008 due to low turnout from the religious right in certain states. I'd speculate that there will be a slight affect on the Senate in states that are typically on the fence...but I wouldn't hold my breath expecting Kansas to go blue. The House, which has a much more volatile composition, probably won't change much at all. Districts are typically so geographically small and with relatively homogenous demographics that the outcome of a given race is pretty consistent and predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 If you are refering to gay marriage and flag burning-no. I haven't noticed any out break of flag burning and married heterosexuals seem to have no problem destroying their marriages with no help from me. But that wasn't the question. Do you think ithe two issues wil be effective in the upcoming elections?I think it's a GREAT question to ask about our media and Press Secretary Tony Snow, but I say f#@% it, I ain't fooled. If one candidate's agenda directly affects an anti-American, another directly affects my best friend's possible deployment to Iraq, and the other directly affects Pierre's marriage proposal to his boyfriend Diesel, then I know who I'd listen to first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncoby Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Today, the White House kicked off their anti gay marriage Constitutional Amendment campaign. Next week they will kick off their anti flag burning Constitutional Amendment campaign. Do you think it will be effective in driving the November elections or will it be seen as a deflection against the problems people perceive are important in ther lives today-ie inflation, Iraq, gas prices, health care, education, etc...?Look. These are serious issues. The gays trying to get married will clog the court system to the point that the self proclaimed "defenders of marriage" will have a very difficult time getting to divorce court. The righteous right, that is the still married righteous right, will then set their sights on banning divorce in order to preserve the sanctity of marriage. And this flag burning amendment is out of control. Our streets are filled with people waving a burning flag, using it during 4th of july bar b q's to light the grill and draping themselves in flag shirts and bikinis. Oh the humanity of it all. (except for the bikini part)This is the time for Newt Gingrich to rise and defend marriage, although he has been married 3 times, who else would be more experienced to work this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Today, the White House kicked off their anti gay marriage Constitutional Amendment campaign. Next week they will kick off their anti flag burning Constitutional Amendment campaign. Do you think it will be effective in driving the November elections or will it be seen as a deflection against the problems people perceive are important in ther lives today-ie inflation, Iraq, gas prices, health care, education, etc...? well, since W pissed off his most dear conservatives with his stance on immigration, he needs something to reel 'em back in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Today, the White House kicked off their anti gay marriage Constitutional Amendment campaign. Next week they will kick off their anti flag burning Constitutional Amendment campaign. Do you think it will be effective in driving the November elections or will it be seen as a deflection against the problems people perceive are important in ther lives today-ie inflation, Iraq, gas prices, health care, education, etc...?I don't think their diversionary tactic will work this time. They have gone to that well to many times already. I think it only goes to show what screw ups they really are when they dodge our most difficult issues with issues that will make their base "feel good" but in reality have no chance of passing. As far as Bush's role in pushing this debate I think Ray Hill has the best take on it, "Now the Senators can tell their sheep, see we control what the white house does". The Republicans have been somewhat divided lately and they need a diversionary issue they can rally around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 well, since W pissed off his most dear conservatives with his stance on immigration, he needs something to reel 'em back in Look, the last time gay marriage was brought up was during the LAST election cycle. Immigration was made a big deal of in the LAST election cycle. My God! They're even thinking about bringing back the 10 commandments thing It will all pretty much disappear after the elections. What about the headway in other things that matter to us americans? Gas prices! the NORTHERN border crossing (where most of the 9/11 hijackers came in) as well as the southern! The Tax thing? C'mon! IF you're going to cut the taxes, cut the spending! I can understand if the WAR was a good portion of it, but most of it is just wasteful spending or things that were covered with the OLD tax rates. I HOWLED at the thought of the National Guard going to the border. C'mon! Give these guys a break! The Republican conservatives and the Democratic Liberals are both completely nuts now. Time for a new party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncoby Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Look, the last time gay marriage was brought up was during the LAST election cycle.Immigration was made a big deal of in the LAST election cycle.My God! They're even thinking about bringing back the 10 commandments thingIt will all pretty much disappear after the elections.What about the headway in other things that matter to us americans?Gas prices!the NORTHERN border crossing (where most of the 9/11 hijackers came in) as well as the southern!The Tax thing? C'mon! IF you're going to cut the taxes, cut the spending! I can understand if the WAR was a good portion of it, but most of it is just wasteful spending or things that were covered with the OLD tax rates.I HOWLED at the thought of the National Guard going to the border. C'mon! Give these guys a break!The Republican conservatives and the Democratic Liberals are both completely nuts now.Time for a new party.Hey. Dont throw the Democrats in this mess! They arent in charge. They arent coming up with this stupidity. This is the argument the once proclaimed republicans use when they have lost all sense of control. They cant take responsibility for their failures, but can easily say "both parties are at fault" which just isnt the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Sorry, about that. It's just that the democrats are taking the bait and not challenging the majority about the REAL matters at hand.The Republicans are trying to call out to their base, and the only way they can do it is to do something that would anger most conseratives.Frankly, I am in favor of gay marriage.Why shouldn't they be as miserable as the rest of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Good cartoon in the Chronicle today. It shows a sinking ship and a voice coming from the deck "Don't worry, Captain Bush says he is going to ban gay marriage". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 argh...what a headache. the thing is, no matter what kind of discrimination is legislated by our wonderful government (thank goodness it more than likely will not go through), gay people will continue to be in relationships, raise normal children, and be productive, tax-paying members of society. and has anyone even checked the divorce rate lately? not to say that gays and lesbians wouldn't have the same rate of divorce, but the fact that these right-wing wackos are putting "their" marriage on such a high esteemed pedestal that only GAY people would tarnish... riiiight like ricco said, let everyone be miserable http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/3942596.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncoby Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 argh...what a headache. the thing is, no matter what kind of discrimination is legislated by our wonderful government (thank goodness it more than likely will not go through), gay people will continue to be in relationships, raise normal children, and be productive, tax-paying members of society. and has anyone even checked the divorce rate lately? not to say that gays and lesbians wouldn't have the same rate of divorce, but the fact that these right-wing wackos are putting "their" marriage on such a high esteemed pedestal that only GAY people would tarnish... riiiight like ricco said, let everyone be miserable http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/3942596.html I say lets ban divorce. If you get married and then divorced, you can't remarry and you cant get the benefits of being married again. For anything. There. Take that. Lets see how many conservatives bite on that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 If gay people are given civil rights, everyone will want them I saw this on a tee-shirt this morning at Kroger. That kind of sums up my argument. I don't care about marriage. I think the government should just stay out of that racket. I would like to have the same rights straight couples have, however. I guess until that happens, heterosexuals will retain their special rights status. As far as flag burning goes, I've yet to see any but if I have to endure Mattrass Mac in his flag shirt or bubba wiping his fat, sweaty red neck with his flag kerchief, I guess I could endure a burning flag once in awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelguy_73 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 And this flag burning amendment is out of control. Our streets are filled with people waving a burning flag, using it during 4th of july bar b q's to light the grill and draping themselves in flag shirts and bikinis. Oh the humanity of it all. (except for the bikini part) I think we should start by banning RedScare's avatar. It offends me as an American that such freedom should exist in this country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I think we should start by banning RedScare's avatar. It offends me as an American that such freedom should exist in this country! The flag was not earned to be burned....... As far as gay marriage, i dont give a merry damn one way or the other. Im no more threatened by gays getting married than i am threatened by a bear taking a crap in the woods. If the gays want to get married and get fat like the heterosexuals, i say, welcome aboard :) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heights_yankee Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/3942596.html"Others say the very health of society depends on traditional families."That's right. It's much better for a kid to grow up in a home with under-educated, drug addicted, abusive hetero parents. The very health of our society depends on it. Gay couples start raising kids and they might grow up to think on their own and even go so far as to question the status quo- not a good thing if you're a right-wing, religious zealot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I say lets ban divorce. If you get married and then divorced, you can't remarry and you cant get the benefits of being married again. For anything. There. Take that. Lets see how many conservatives bite on that idea. Uhm...what ARE the benefits of marriage? I think we should start by banning RedScare's avatar. It offends me as an American that such freedom should exist in this country! Ban my avatar? That avatar comes from 'Family Guy'! You can't ban 'Family Guy'! That would be....un-American! The flag was not earned to be burned....... Hey, 1stWord, OTHER than my avatar, when's the last time you actually SAW an American flag burn on US soil? And, aren't you the one always griping about 'Symbolism over Substance'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Hey, 1stWord, OTHER than my avatar, when's the last time you actually SAW an American flag burn on US soil? And, aren't you the one always griping about 'Symbolism over Substance'?Yep the flag is a symbol of freedom and America which is closely backed by substance in the form of our fighting forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncoby Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Yep the flag is a symbol of freedom and America which is closely backed by substance in the form of our fighting forces.The fighting forces fought for our right to burn what ever we want, including the flag. And if they dont like that, they shouldn't fight. The flag burning amendment crap is nothing more than pandering to the lowest form of symbolism to get votes. Nothing more. If they had put the same energy into researching the claims against Iraq, our fighting forces wouldnt have to be fighting to protect our freedoms.I personally would hate to see a flag being burned, but it is nothing more than a symbol of freedom as well as the burning of it.Now.....if a gay person was burning it................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 The fighting forces fought for our right to burn what ever we want, including the flag. And if they dont like that, they shouldn't fight.Thats a lie. You cannot burn whatever you want. I dont know where that statement comes from......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Thats a lie. You cannot burn whatever you want. I dont know where that statement comes from.........You're right. We cannot burn cannibis, crack, crank, heroin, peyote, tobacco (if you're under 18), human remains (without a permit), insured property, other people's property or brush during a drought.So, 1stWord, judging by your responses, even though you've never seen a flag burned on US soil, and in spite of the intrinsic value of free speech (even repugnant speech), you're in favor of the symbolism of a flag over your substantial liberties.If symbolism means so much to you, why don't you protest the fact that the flags are made in China, and worn by Mattress Mac to sell ugly furniture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 you're in favor of the symbolism of a flag over your substantial liberties.What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncoby Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Thats a lie. You cannot burn whatever you want. I dont know where that statement comes from......... Let me rephrase: The fighting forces fought for our right to burn the flag. You're right. We cannot burn cannibis, crack, crank, heroin, peyote, tobacco (if you're under 18), human remains (without a permit), insured property, other people's property or brush during a drought.So, 1stWord, judging by your responses, even though you've never seen a flag burned on US soil, and in spite of the intrinsic value of free speech (even repugnant speech), you're in favor of the symbolism of a flag over your substantial liberties. If symbolism means so much to you, why don't you protest the fact that the flags are made in China, and worn by Mattress Mac to sell ugly furniture? Can we burn the flag while Mattress Mac is wearing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 Uhm...what ARE the benefits of marriage? When I die-if I die 1st-my partner get's none of my SS. If he dies first, I would'nt recieve any of his VA benefits. A simple civil union could take care of that...but hell!-that may cause even more divorces and tear at the very special rights afforded to heterosexual marriages!!! As a protest, I will now don a Mattrass Mac shirt, wipe my nose with a flag kerchief and go burn a cat on a bed of Malaysian made US flags! That'll show em'! Let me rephrase: The fighting forces fought for our right to burn the flag.Can we burn the flag while Mattress Mac is wearing it? I'll bring the matches and the gas-soaked, made in China US flags! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncoby Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 When I die-if I die 1st-my partner get's none of my SS. If he dies first, I would'nt recieve any of his VA benefits.A simple civil union could take care of that...but hell!-that may cause even more divorces and tear at the very special rights afforded to heterosexual marriages!!! As a protest, I will now don a Mattrass Mac shirt, wipe my nose with a flag kerchief and go burn a cat on a bed of Malaysian made US flags! That'll show em'! I'll bring the matches and the gas-soaked, made in China US flags! It can be a FIRE sale!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Here's what I don't understand. If an American dude in Times Square were to go on national tv and burn the national flag of, say, Mexico or Canada, wouldn't that offend a lot of people? It'd start up a riot wouldn't it? Why is it not offensive to Americans when someone burns an American flag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Here's what I don't understand. If an American dude in Times Square were to go on national tv and burn the national flag of, say, Mexico or Canada, wouldn't that offend a lot of people? It'd start up a riot wouldn't it? Why is it not offensive to Americans when someone burns an American flag?Thats a Million dollar question................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Here's what I don't understand. If an American dude in Times Square were to go on national tv and burn the national flag of, say, Mexico or Canada, wouldn't that offend a lot of people? It'd start up a riot wouldn't it? Why is it not offensive to Americans when someone burns an American flag? That's not the question. Of course people are offended. The question is, why would people want to outlaw the free speech that the flag represents, therefore rendering the flag an impotent symbol of freedom? And where do you stop? The KKK? The American Nazi Party? Blasphemers? The argument here is that there are those, like John Cornyn, who value the symbol more than the freedom that it represents. I don't understand why someone would support a hollow right. But, then, there are a lot of hollow rights here, aren't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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