house okays oil drilling in wildlife refuge

[TheNiche]

You mean like the US embassy was on American territory in Tehran? Or like the US embassy was on American territory in Afghanistan? Fantasy my ass. I dont think the US should be involved with the UN, an organization that doesnt have the best interest of the American public in mind, and organization that can assert power over the USA and is not elected by American citizens. This citizen of the world crap is not something i wish for our country to be a part of. The world is a BIG place and most of it is NOT like the USA and they are not waiting holding thier collective breath to be like America.......

I'm with you on this one. Anybody hear about the UN's new and improved Human Rights Council? It replaces the Comission on Human Rights, which was criticized because many of the member states had human rights problems, themselves...so the new body includes none other than China and Saudi Arabia as member states. Problem solved?

My problem, if none other, is that the whole thing is dysfunctional and unnecessary. A drain of resources that should have been put to higher and better uses.

[nmainguy]

You mean like the US embassy was on American territory in Tehran? Or like the US embassy was on American territory in Afghanistan? Fantasy my ass. I dont think the US should be involved with the UN, an organization that doesnt have the best interest of the American public in mind, and organization that can assert power over the USA and is not elected by American citizens. This citizen of the world crap is not something i wish for our country to be a part of. The world is a BIG place and most of it is NOT like the USA and they are not waiting holding thier collective breath to be like America.......

The UN has extraterritoriality status. So go ahead, grab your cap-gun and round up Chief Cheney and Deputy Bushie and CHARGE! They'll beat up that mean ol' UN and that'll show em', huh? In the mean time the grown-ups will continue to try to do some good inspite of the little cowboys of the world.

[TheNiche]

Well, it certainly is about time that the neo-cons are informed of that fact! Then, maybe we can stop invading every country that disagrees with our glutonous philosophy.

Red, I count two recent invasions of countries that would disagree with our glutonous philosophy...and one was justified for non-glutonous reasons. That's a far cry from "every country that disagrees with our glutonous philosophy". Despite the rhetoric that gets thrown around out there, we're clearly not invading places to spread glutony...otherwise, we'd have invaded more places. I don't claim to know what true reason that would happen to be, but the spread of glutony doesn't appear to apply because it doesn't fit the pattern.

There is truth beyond rhetoric...it is your job as a citizen (and especially as a lawyer) to cut through the stream of crap spewed by both political parties.

[heights_yankee]

for those who are concerened about the wildlife in Alaska being affected by this....i have one question. Are you ever in your lifetime going to go to Alaska and actually spend time there vacationing and looking at the polar bears and other animals? we were put on this world to comsume it. we have to use all of its resources.

First of all, Alaska is not where you find polar bears.

I've been. My family went one year for vacation. We didn't have a lot of money, so we stayed in truck stops and seedy motels all through Canada (we drove) and took a very no-frills, industrial ferry to Alaska. We camped. This was no rich man's glorious summer holiday.

Alaska is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. It was pristine. It was clean and open and beautiful. There were deer and brown bear and carribou and beavers and eagles. I am so glad I saw it and I am sad that my children/grandchildren will probably never get to have an experience like that. Sure, they'll still experience an energy crisis, but Alaska as I knew it will already be gone.

Oh and as far as people are more important than animals--- Alaska, as the Inuit people and other Eskimo tribes know it, will be gone and with it their livelihood, their culture, the amazing art they create. Instead they'll be working in refineries. That will be so much better for them.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

The UN has extraterritoriality status. So go ahead, grab your cap-gun and round up Chief Cheney and Deputy Bushie and CHARGE! They'll beat up that mean ol' UN and that'll show em', huh? In the mean time the grown-ups will continue to try to do some good inspite of the little cowboys of the world.

I dont have my head up any political partys ass, and nor does the United Nothings err United Nations. My problem is not with any US political party, its with the UN. The UN will love any US leaders that will give them more validity and support/MONEY, regardless of political party.

[DJ V Lawrence]

You mean like the US embassy was on American territory in Tehran? Or like the US embassy was on American territory in Afghanistan? Fantasy my ass. I dont think the US should be involved with the UN, an organization that doesnt have the best interest of the American public in mind, and organization that can assert power over the USA and is not elected by American citizens. This citizen of the world crap is not something i wish for our country to be a part of. The world is a BIG place and most of it is NOT like the USA and they are not waiting holding thier collective breath to be like America.......

Dude, how many wars have the UN helped put a stop to?!

Also, like I said, you talk as if the UN is an organization trying to control the US I say bullocks, dude! We the U.S. went to the U.N. to enforce consequences on Iraq for having WMDs, and we showed "proof" that they had them (I remember watching Colin Powell's presentation to the UN with my Army friends in Korea). Kofi Annan wanted more time for U.N. inspectors to do their jobs and try to find evidence that those facts were not flawed, yet we made the arguement that perhaps by the time we found out we were right, they may already use those WMDs on us. Guess what? We didn't listen to the U.N., went into Iraq without 100% blessings of the U.N., and invaded and toppled Hussein anyway.

My point is this: we went to Iraq without U.N. approval. Did they punish and bombard the U.S. with sanctions and reprocutions? Did the U.N. invade us afterwards? No. None of that happened. We didn't lose any power because of the U.N.; we just lost positive PR. (The U.S. has since gone to the U.N. for assistance in rebuilding Iraq, however).

The only part where I agree with you is that the U.N. doesn't have the U.S. best interests in mind; it has the WORLD'S best interests in mind, and that's a great thing. When has the U.N. recently asserted it's power over the USA? 'Cause like I said, I don't ever recall that happening in Iraq...

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Dude, how many wars have the UN helped put a stop to?!

Also, like I said, you talk as if the UN is an organization trying to control the US I say bullocks, dude! We the U.S. went to the U.N. to enforce consequences on Iraq for having WMDs, and we showed "proof" that they had them (I remember watching Colin Powell's presentation to the UN with my Army friends in Korea). Kofi Annan wanted more time for U.N. inspectors to do their jobs and try to find evidence that those facts were not flawed, yet we made the arguement that perhaps by the time we found out we were right, they may already use those WMDs on us. Guess what? We didn't listen to the U.N., went into Iraq without 100% blessings of the U.N., and invaded and toppled Hussein anyway.

My point is this: we went to Iraq without U.N. approval. Did they punish and bombard the U.S. with sanctions and reprocutions? Did the U.N. invade us afterwards? No. None of that happened. We didn't lose any power because of the U.N.; we just lost positive PR. (The U.S. has since gone to the U.N. for assistance in rebuilding Iraq, however).

The only part where I agree with you is that the U.N. doesn't have the U.S. best interests in mind; it has the WORLD'S best interests in mind, and that's a great thing. When has the U.N. recently asserted it's power over the USA? 'Cause like I said, I don't ever recall that happening in Iraq...

When you awake from your false enlightenment, you are going to have a headache..........

United Nothings having the best interest of the world in mind is good thing? I ask again, have you read with understanding, the UN Charter? It will not be long before the guns of best for the world garbage is turned towards the USA, the ground work has already been laid and it is continueing to be laid. NMM in another thread showed us a pic of a dead child in Iraq and let us know that the arab world hasnt forgotten Clintons Secretary of States' statement about sanctions against Iraq. He convieniently left out the part that the sanctions were a UN move, but the US gets the blame for it. No matter the intentions the US have with the United Nothings, it will ALWAYS get twisted against America in the present as in the past and for the forseeable future. I do not support an organization, 2/3's or better, of which have nothing but piss and vinegar towards the USA. I am a citizen of America, not the world. I much rather having the elected leaders of this country controlling things we do within and outside of our borders. Thats the best way because it gives the American citizens a voice with substance in the way things are handled. I WILL NEVER SUPPORT an outside entity like the United Nothings-which are NOT ELECTED by the American public.

[TJones]

Well, it certainly is about time that the neo-cons are informed of that fact! Then, maybe we can stop invading every country that disagrees with our glutonous philosophy.

I am beginning to think now that we give everybody else in the world just one more year of our generosity, then we pull all troops back to U.S. soil, close all bases, slash and burn it all, leave nothing for them, and put all the troops to use on our borders. We still do business as usual with the rest of the world, we don't need our bases to do business with other countries. Let's see how hard they cry when we are NOT there anymore, since they don't want us there, they do like the American dollars spent though, don't they ?

......and what sanctions could the U.N. POSSIBLY implement on us ? The rest of the world's economies would wither and die without U.S. dollars. Yes, even China, "Psuedo Communists."

[nmainguy]

I WILL NEVER SUPPORT an outside entity like the United Nothings-which are NOT ELECTED by the American public.

Not an outside entity but unelected by the public never the less:

2000 popular vote for president

Bush-50,456,002

Gore-50,999,897

Funny how all you Bushies so convieniently forget that one.

The UN isn't going anywhere because you are in trhe minority in wanting that.

Back on topic, there will be no drilling in ANWR because the majority don't want it.

So rail at the moon all you want and that won't even get you and niche a glass of water.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I am beginning to think now that we give everybody else in the world just one more year of our generosity, then we pull all troops back to U.S. soil, close all bases, slash and burn it all, leave nothing for them, and put all the troops to use on our borders. We still do business as usual with the rest of the world, we don't need our bases to do business with other countries. Let's see how hard they cry when we are NOT there anymore, since they don't want us there, they do like the American dollars spent though, don't they ?

......and what sanctions could the U.N. POSSIBLY implement on us ? The rest of the world's economies would wither and die without U.S. dollars. Yes, even China, "Psuedo Communists."

I have a good idea where it will start....... We all have heard of the things at Abu Grahb, and now some report of US Marines taking vengence for thier fallen fellow marines do to a roadside bomb attack. Plans are in the works for an INTL method of handling "war atrocities" under the UN banner. Meaning punishing individual soldiers for certain actions the United Nothings think are not so good. Translates into punishing American soldiers for battlefield actions. I WILL NEVER SUPPORT THAT!!!! When our soldiers break laws, our system of gov. should handle it, not the UN or any other non American entity. If we sign off on something like that, we will be one of the very FEW that would actually take it to heart, meaning allowing the rules of the United Nothings to handle our soldiers. Most other countries in that group of garbage are not falsely enlightened the way we are and have no intention of abiding by those rules if and when they come into play. Best interest of the world........

[nmainguy]

I am beginning to think now that we give everybody else in the world just one more year of our generosity, then we pull all troops back to U.S. soil, close all bases, slash and burn it all, leave nothing for them, and put all the troops to use on our borders. We still do business as usual with the rest of the world, we don't need our bases to do business with other countries. Let's see how hard they cry when we are NOT there anymore, since they don't want us there, they do like the American dollars spent though, don't they ?

......and what sanctions could the U.N. POSSIBLY implement on us ? The rest of the world's economies would wither and die without U.S. dollars. Yes, even China, "Psuedo Communists."

US foreign aid is 1% of our budget. Israel gets a third of that. I agree we probably dole out too much to undeserving countries-especially Israel. But some of this aid is good foreign policy and alot of it is just blowing in the wind.

[Keep us informed on the bambino-you lucky dog!]

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Not an outside entity but unelected by the public never the less:

2000 popular vote for president

Bush-50,456,002

Gore-50,999,897

Funny how all you Bushies so convieniently forget that one.

The UN isn't going anywhere because you are in trhe minority in wanting that.

Back on topic, there will be no drilling in ANWR because the majority don't want it.

So rail at the moon all you want and that won't even get you and niche a glass of water.

Popular vote DOES NOT decide presidential elections in the USA. A third grader can tell you that much. Elementary school 101.

As for the United Nothings, i have a very bad feeling that you are right.

[TJones]

US foreign aid is 1% of our budget. Israel gets a third of that. I agree we probably dole out too much to undeserving countries-especially Israel. But some of this aid is good foreign policy and alot of it is just blowing in the wind.

[Keep us informed on the bambino-you lucky dog!]

I am not speaking of foreign aid, I am speaking of our Military, pull everything back and zip it up. Keep our fleet close at bay, secure the border to the north as well as the south. We aren't closing up shop, we are just gonna bring our police force back to where it is needed the most. I am sorry Israel, we can't do anything for you anymore. We can use some of our miltary to protect the drilling in ANWR from all the treehuggers.

[ricco67]

Jumping OFF topic briefly...

The Electorial College is something that should go by the way of the UN; into the history books.

[DJ V Lawrence]

...NMM in another thread showed us a pic of a dead child in Iraq and let us know that the arab world hasnt forgotten Clintons Secretary of States' statement about sanctions against Iraq. He convieniently left out the part that the sanctions were a UN move, but the US gets the blame for it....

So, um, which country's delegation made that U.N. resolution to create those sanctions against Iraq in the first place?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

So, um, which country's delegation made that U.N. resolution to create those sanctions against Iraq in the first place?

Still enlightened?

[RedScare]

I have a good idea where it will start....... We all have heard of the things at Abu Grahb, and now some report of US Marines taking vengence for thier fallen fellow marines do to a roadside bomb attack. Plans are in the works for an INTL method of handling "war atrocities" under the UN banner. Meaning punishing individual soldiers for certain actions the United Nothings think are not so good. Translates into punishing American soldiers for battlefield actions. I WILL NEVER SUPPORT THAT!!!! When our soldiers break laws, our system of gov. should handle it, not the UN or any other non American entity. If we sign off on something like that, we will be one of the very FEW that would actually take it to heart, meaning allowing the rules of the United Nothings to handle our soldiers. Most other countries in that group of garbage are not falsely enlightened the way we are and have no intention of abiding by those rules if and when they come into play. Best interest of the world........

I understand your concerns. In most countries, murdering innocent women and children is considered a war atrocity, as opposed to a "war atrocity". Murdering women and children is not considered a battlefield action. If the US were to participate in the War Crimes Tribunal, it would not be able to commit these acts with impunity. The UN might even be tempted to go up the chain of command and charge those who have sent these Marines on their 3rd and 4th tours in 3 years, causing them to snap mentally. The US might even be forced to follow the Geneva Conventions.

What goes around, comes around. If the US continues its aggressive approach to diplomacy and oil, it will eventually be met with an aggressive response. And, since the US is a huge net importer of goods and oil, it will be a painful awakening. But, that doesn't matter to military blowhards. They think we can just continue to push everyone around and they'll just take it. Somehow, I feel that a country full of fat, lazy people who think taking the bus is an inconvenience, just doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to back up what its militaristic government is spouting.

So, maybe Tjones' solution is best.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I am not speaking of foreign aid, I am speaking of our Military, pull everything back and zip it up. Keep our fleet close at bay, secure the border to the north as well as the south. We aren't closing up shop, we are just gonna bring our police force back to where it is needed the most. I am sorry Israel, we can't do anything for you anymore. We can use some of our miltary to protect the drilling in ANWR from all the treehuggers.

We dont have any soldiers protecting Israel, they have a more than capable military that can handle that very effectivly. By the way, they have trained us in the past on military manuevers if no one here is aware of that fact. The only US military protection Israel gets is a seat under the US nuclear umbrella. That doesnt involve troops tanks or planes or ships :) :)

[nmainguy]

Popular vote DOES NOT decide presidential elections in the USA. A third grader can tell you that much. Elementary school 101.

As for the United Nothings, i have a very bad feeling that you are right.

I wish they had a pool in Vegas I could bet on that response. I WILL NEVER...NOT ELECTED...

Yeah, every one knows about the Electoral College. Yeah, everyone knows that every president that lost the popular vote ultimatly went down in flames. But keep it up. Your fantasy has a little more than 2 years to play out.

[TJones]

I understand your concerns. In most countries, murdering innocent women and children is considered a war atrocity, as opposed to a "war atrocity". Murdering women and children is not considered a battlefield action. If the US were to participate in the War Crimes Tribunal, it would not be able to commit these acts with impunity. The UN might even be tempted to go up the chain of command and charge those who have sent these Marines on their 3rd and 4th tours in 3 years, causing them to snap mentally. The US might even be forced to follow the Geneva Conventions.

What goes around, comes around. If the US continues its aggressive approach to diplomacy and oil, it will eventually be met with an aggressive response. And, since the US is a huge net importer of goods and oil, it will be a painful awakening. But, that doesn't matter to military blowhards. They think we can just continue to push everyone around and they'll just take it. Somehow, I feel that a country full of fat, lazy people who think taking the bus is an inconvenience, just doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to back up what its militaristic government is spouting.

So, maybe Tjones' solution is best.

This is exactly what I am starting to be afraid of, Yes, it's "WAR" but dammit, you have to know who your enemy is, and we knew who it was at the beginning, it is time to give IRAQ and Afganistan back to it's people and come home, it is all too discolored to find the right target. Nobody wants us over there, even if we truly believe we are doing the right thing. I still believe we should help those who can't help themselves, but when you have worn out your welcome, you have to know when to leave.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I understand your concerns. In most countries, murdering innocent women and children is considered a war atrocity, as opposed to a "war atrocity". Murdering women and children is not considered a battlefield action. If the US were to participate in the War Crimes Tribunal, it would not be able to commit these acts with impunity. The UN might even be tempted to go up the chain of command and charge those who have sent these Marines on their 3rd and 4th tours in 3 years, causing them to snap mentally. The US might even be forced to follow the Geneva Conventions.

What goes around, comes around. If the US continues its aggressive approach to diplomacy and oil, it will eventually be met with an aggressive response. And, since the US is a huge net importer of goods and oil, it will be a painful awakening. But, that doesn't matter to military blowhards. They think we can just continue to push everyone around and they'll just take it. Somehow, I feel that a country full of fat, lazy people who think taking the bus is an inconvenience, just doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to back up what its militaristic government is spouting.

So, maybe Tjones' solution is best.

Nah, its full of fat lazy people that will sit on thier asses and advocate the use of the US military as a force to police other nations under a UN banner of humanitarian aide. Sending the military to a battlefield situation in which its not armed with proper orders to protect and defend itself collectively or individually, mainly because they are there for "humanitarian aide" This country unfortunately didnt learn from mistakes of the 1990's.........

[nmainguy]

This is exactly what I am starting to be afraid of, Yes, it's "WAR" but dammit, you have to know who your enemy is, and we knew who it was at the beginning, it is time to give IRAQ and Afganistan back to it's people and come home, it is all too discolored to find the right target. Nobody wants us over there, even if we truly believe we are doing the right thing. I still believe we should help those who can't help themselves, but when you have worn out your welcome, you have to know when to leave.

Sadly, welcome to the club, TJ. We are in the middle of a civil war in Iraq and are being confronted with an energized Taliban in Afghanistan. However, I am not for cutting and running. I'm still for Murtha's plan of redeploying across the border to Kuwait to stand ready if needed. Unfortunatly, we have no where to redeploy when it comes to Afghanistan-where the 9.11 terrorists originated. Ironic we went after Iraq while abandoning the source of those that caused 9.11.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

This is exactly what I am starting to be afraid of, Yes, it's "WAR" but dammit, you have to know who your enemy is, and we knew who it was at the beginning, it is time to give IRAQ and Afganistan back to it's people and come home, it is all too discolored to find the right target. Nobody wants us over there, even if we truly believe we are doing the right thing. I still believe we should help those who can't help themselves, but when you have worn out your welcome, you have to know when to leave.

Dont get the 2 confused......American actions in Afganistan is supported by the right group of people.Its a NATO event, not United Nothings. I disagree with the way we decided to attack the problem there, mainly because it wasnt an end all solution. It has now become a policing action, sadly :( :(

[TJones]

Dont get the 2 confused......American actions in Afganistan is supported by the right group of people.Its a NATO event, not United Nothings. I disagree with the way we decided to attack the problem there, mainly because it wasnt an end all solution. It has now become a policing action, sadly :( :(

I don't believe I'm confused, I am pissed off. If the left would quit tying our hands back and let us go do what needs to be done, it would have all been over already. Yes, even at the expense of some collatorral(sp) damage. The ones who would wish us harm need to know that we are a bigger monster than they could ever hope to be and that terrorist actions are merely a level of the full Hell that we can unleash upon them. They really haven't been made to see that we ARE "ugly Americans", and that you just don't mess with us, we are all the craziest mother lovers on the planet. So, we do what we came there to do and get the oil prices back in check, and everyone is happy again.

[RedScare]

I don't believe I'm confused, I am pissed off. If the left would quit tying our hands back and let us go do what needs to be done, it would have all been over already.

When did the "left" get in charge? Look, if these sorry f'ers can't get something done with the presidency and BOTH Houses of Congress on their side, maybe you apologists need to admit that your way of doing things sucks. The "left" hasn't stopped any of your misguided and ill-thought out actions. This is your debacle. Take some responsibility for it.

If that is not true, then you apologists need to admit that your guys can't even get things done with a majority.

So, which is it?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I don't believe I'm confused, I am pissed off. If the left would quit tying our hands back and let us go do what needs to be done, it would have all been over already. Yes, even at the expense of some collatorral(sp) damage. The ones who would wish us harm need to know that we are a bigger monster than they could ever hope to be and that terrorist actions are merely a level of the full Hell that we can unleash upon them. They really haven't been made to see that we ARE "ugly Americans", and that you just don't mess with us, we are all the craziest mother lovers on the planet. So, we do what we came there to do and get the oil prices back in check, and everyone is happy again.

TJones, in the good old days of cat and mouse and mega-death, America would have never been attacked in the first place. Everyone knew exactly what the end result would be and that we had the balls to take it to the next level.............

If a 9/11 style event would have occurred during my days in the military, Afghanistan would have become our own private fourth of July, along with a few select other countries.....its called "an end all solution". I doubt if those words even echo the halls of military planning anymore :( :( :(

[TJones]

When did the "left" get in charge? Look, if these sorry f'ers can't get something done with the presidency and BOTH Houses of Congress on their side, maybe you apologists need to admit that your way of doing things sucks. The "left" hasn't stopped any of your misguided and ill-thought out actions. This is your debacle. Take some responsibility for it.

If that is not true, then you apologists need to admit that your guys can't even get things done with a majority.

So, which is it?

Here's what I will own up to my man, I know we went into Iraq 2 weeks ahead of schedule. Yes, 2 weeks, ok, actually 13 days. How do I know, I just do.So our military was already ill-equipped, and had to use equiptment that was flown over with them from training, it wasn't the "combat-ready" stuff. I don't see it as a debacle at all, I see it as the military being checked at every point of the operation and being held up by a sympathetic left that hampers efforts to get the job done. Remember it's a gentler, kinder war, we have to show the Iraqi people that we are their friends, and that is a leftist agenda that we are forced to deal with because you think we can win a war with diplomacy. You know that just doesn't work, but you say, "ok, you can have your war Mr. Pres., but you have to do it this way if you want us to back it." He then does it "their way" and then the left yells, "see, you can't win a war in Iraq. We told you." Who cried loudest over "Abbuh Grahb" and "Club GITMO" Red, it certainly wasn't anyone on the Republican side.

TJones, in the good old days of cat and mouse and mega-death, America would have never been attacked in the first place. Everyone knew exactly what the end result would be and that we had the balls to take it to the next level.............

If a 9/11 style event would have occurred during my days in the military, Afghanistan would have become our own private fourth of July, along with a few select other countries.....its called "an end all solution". I doubt if those words even echo the halls of military planning anymore :( :( :(

I know I know, it is the world of "strategic attacks" when a good ol' "carpet bombing" or "tactical nuke" would do just fine.

[RedScare]

Not one example in your entire apology...oh, except for justifying Abu Ghraib. And now, you and 1stWord are longing wistfully for nuclear war?

You two have lost it...competely and utterly lost it.

[DJ V Lawrence]

TJones, in the good old days of cat and mouse and mega-death, America would have never been attacked in the first place. Everyone knew exactly what the end result would be and that we had the balls to take it to the next level.............

If a 9/11 style event would have occurred during my days in the military, Afghanistan would have become our own private fourth of July, along with a few select other countries.....its called "an end all solution". I doubt if those words even echo the halls of military planning anymore :( :( :(

I understand where you're coming from, Moonman. I take it you're referring to Pearl Harbor, and America's response to it. No country has directly attacked America's mainland since. America has a pretty good history of response, and I think the world already recognizes that.

I think the difference between you and me is how to end conflict. I don't believe whole countries deserve a genocide if their government attacks us. I do believe that their brass needs to be taken out, and that country needs to be given the opportunity to rebuild because there are innocent people within that population, and they will need help to rebuild because they no longer have the power and resources. Do you agree yes or no? And if not, how should that country rebuild itself?

[TJones]

Not one example in your entire apology...oh, except for justifying Abu Ghraib. And now, you and 1stWord are longing wistfully for nuclear war?

You two have lost it...competely and utterly lost it.

Ugh, it is like talking to a brickwall with you. Of course I don't want a Nuclear War, who would have complained or retalliated if we had dropped a tactical on Bagdad anyways? No one said a word about the 25 or so "daisycutters" we threw up in the mountains of Afghanistan, and they are just one chromosome shy of a Nuke. Everyone thought they were cool. No one shed a tear over Uhday or Amway when they showed close ups of their bloated dead carcasses. Everyone thought the military was doing a good job until some of our own were getting killed by IEDs because we can't clean and sweep the dwellings of suspect houses, because we might spook a few women and children. If the women know why we are there maybe they can relate to the children why the military is doing such things and let them know that we are indeed the goodguys. At every turn though, the left wants to put a blackeye on the military saying they are too aggressive in their tactics. 4 years of this, over something that could have been achieved in 2 if the left would keep their noses out of it, but we need embedded reporters to chronicle all the goings on of war, then when they see what dangers our boys are put in, they cry foul.

Red, how the hell do we always end up like this, isn't this thread all about the Caribou ? We are always gonna disagree on this, and that is ok with me, because that is why I respect you and your opinion. You are just as thickheaded as me !