Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART)

[dfwcre8tive]

DART Green Line construction aerial photos:

http://www.dart.org/slideshows/constructio...2007/index.html

[Trae]

Looks nice. Is this the one that will be a subway (around DFW airport)?

[dfwcre8tive]

GREEN LINE

The Green Line is under construction now. This line goes from the SE to NW with destinations like Fair Park, Deep Ellum, downtown, Medical/Market Center, Love Field and up to Carrollton (where the DCTA line will connect to Denton). There was once discussion about a subway under Love Field but now it will be a surface station adjacent to the airport with a people mover to the terminal.

10.1 miles, Pearl Station to Buckner Station; 8 stations

17.6 miles, West End Station (Dallas) to Frankford Station (Carrollton); 12 stations

Pearl Station to MLK Station (2.7 miles)

Opens: September 2009

Stations: Deep Ellum Station

Baylor Station

Fair Park Station

MLK Station

MLK Station to Buckner Station (7.4 miles)

Opens: December 2010

Stations: Hatcher Station

Lawnview Station

Lake June Station

Buckner Station

West End Station to Victory Station (1.2 miles)

Opened: November 12, 2004 (special event service only)

September 2009 (daily service)

Stations: Victory Station

Victory Station to Inwood Station (2.8 miles)

Opens: December 2010

Stations: Market Center Station

Southwestern Medical District/Parkland Station

Inwood Station

Inwood Station to Bachman Station (Northwest Highway) (3.2 miles)

Opens: December 2010

Stations: Love Field Station

Bachman Station

Bachman Station to Farmers Branch Station (4.9 miles)

Opens: December 2010

Stations: Walnut Hill/Denton Station

Royal Lane Station

Farmers Branch Station

Farmers Branch Station to North Carrollton/Frankford Station (5.5 miles)

Opens: December 2010

Stations: Downtown Carrollton Station

Trinity Mills Station

North Carrollton/Frankford Station

http://www.dart.org/about/expansion/greenline.asp

ORANGE LINE

The Orange Line connects into the Green Line. This branch goes to DFW Airport via Irving and the Las Colinas Urban Center.

14 miles, Bachman Station (Dallas) to DFW Airport; 7 stations

Bachman Station to Las Colinas Urban Center (5.1 miles)

Opens: December 2011

Las Colinas Urban Center to Belt Line Rd. (4.1 miles)

Opens: December 2012

Belt Line Rd. to DFW Airport (4.8 miles)

Opens: December 2013

http://www.dart.org/about/expansion/orangeline.asp

BLUE LINE

Extension to Rowlett

4.5 miles, Downtown Garland to Downtown Rowlett; 1 station

Downtown Garland Station to Downtown Rowlett Station (4.5 miles)

Opens: December 2012

Stations: Downtown Rowlett Station

http://www.dart.org/about/expansion/blueline.asp

[Trae]

Is DART placed on old rail lines, and what are the ridership levels for DART Rail?

[dfwcre8tive]

After the new rail lines are constructed there will be too much rail traffic using the current transit mall downtown. DART is starting a study to determine where the 2nd light rail line through downtown should go. This could be at street level like the current line or in a subway. Planners are leaning on an alignment which connects the southern section of the downtown CBD including the farmer's market and government area.

Another major consideration being discussed is the addition of modern streetcars (similar to Portland) to connect the various stations and neighborhoods in and around downtown.

"DART is conducting a comprehensive, multi-modal (i.e. buses, streetcar, street-running and subway-running light rail, etc.) transit study of downtown Dallas, which includes an environmental impact statement element.

Key study objectives include increasing regional transit capacity, improving DART's service reliability, providing operational flexibility through downtown Dallas for all services, and improving access and circulation."

http://www.dart.org/about/expansion/downtowndallas.asp

[dfwcre8tive]

Is DART placed on old rail lines, and what are the ridership levels for DART Rail?

Most of the lines are built on old rail right-of-way. The Red, Blue, and Green Lines are mostly on old rail beds. The future Orange Line to DFW Airport is not. In some sections the future Green Line will be running above active freight lines.

DART Rail (light rail)

Length of system 45 miles (As of November 2004,

system opened June 14, 1996)

Number of stations 35

Total vehicle fleet 115

FY06 ridership 18.6 million passenger trips

FY06 Average weekday ridership 61,994

FY06 Average Saturday ridership 29,521

FY06 Average Sunday ridership 22,028

FY06 subsidy per passenger $3.01

[dfwcre8tive]

DART is also starting modifications to the current stations this summer. All the platforms will be raised higher to provide level-boarding with the new C Cars. This is a "middle" section added onto each car that provides for low floor boarding. All of the new cars will be this way and current cars are being upgraded in time for the new station openings.

This website explains it: http://www.kinkisharyo-usa.com/dart_dallas_slrv.html#

The next generation of DART Rail is on track

DART Rail C-Car

After more than a year in service, DART's only C-Car has proven its worth and will be joined by up to 115 more. The car, operated on the Blue Line, allows platform-level boarding

[kenc]

The new connector cars are really cool. I'm impressed that DART is flexible enought to see what was needed in terms of new equipment required, and spend the money to have a new design built. Same with some of the newest "long route" buses. They have individual head rests, recline, individual air & lights, (like an airplane). DART is a great mass transit system and we owe much of that to Roger Snoble.

[johnfinley]

.......downtown plano are a few of places that have developed around the train stops. Also several more are in development or building stages for the new lines.

I think that's how Plano was begun, anyway. The big fake concrete jungle that's Plano now. My mom moved there in 1972, when it had a population less than 15,000. When I lived there (for a brief time), it was HUGE, like over 200,000.

[johnfinley]

Is DART placed on old rail lines, and what are the ridership levels for DART Rail?

I believe the Trinity Express runs along old RR lines, and a large portion of the DART that runs along Lancaster Rd. uses the old Texas Electric RR lines (called the Interurban). As a matter of fact, DART uses one of the old interurban shops as it's own repair facility. If you go to local.live.com, you can see between S.H. 342 and Houston School road, along I-20 the old r.o.w. for the T.E.R.R. and follow it all the way up to the remains of the bridge that crosses the Trinity river back in the day.

[dfwcre8tive]

Watch the Building and Growing the Green Line video here:

http://www.dart.org/video/flashvideo/greenlinejune2007.html

[slfunk]

That was an interesting video.

[Trae]

You guys are lucky to have such a great rail system.

[VelvetJ]

Watch the Building and Growing the Green Line video here:

http://www.dart.org/video/flashvideo/greenlinejune2007.html

Wow, that IS a interesting video. I had no idea so much of the plan would be completed in the next few years. Dallas isn't wasting anytime. With stops at Fair Park, Victory Station, and to the airport to be coming soon, I'm sure the ridership numbers will skyrocket. I have to say Dallas has planned and is implementing a system that is impressive. Congrats.

[citykid09]

There are a lot of DART videos on youtube: Here is one of there 10 anniversary from a year ago:

[nucklehead]

I only brought up the Metro HOVs becuase many in Houston are so sad we don't have more rail.

But it's not about the form of transportation, it's about moving people.

And Houston's HOV system moves tons of people and is the model of efficiency.

Comparing Metro to Dart is like comparing a Volkswagon to a Lamborgini. Simply put, developers will never build billion dollar developments next to the bus stations in Houston. A Houston citizen will never feel special on a bus the way a Dallas citizen does on a train. Tourists in Houston aren't going to get excited on the bus every time it bounces them up and down when it hits a gigantic pot hole. Come on now! You have to be joking certainly.

The next craze in real estate is happening right now and it involves building mini urban areas next to train stations. Why should Houston be concerned about this? Well, Houston doesn't have a lot of stations that don't already have lots of development around them. When Houston does finally build a line in which residents actually ride, then it will be Dallas companies who have the expertise to come in and build them.

The only positive about the big mess that Metro has in Houston right now is that it just might work out well one day. Midtown is a vacuum between downtown Houston and the Medical Center. Houston's plan won't seem so silly if Midtown does indeed become the central hub of the metro area one day. Most of us will probably be long dead before that happens.

[RedScare]

Comparing Metro to Dart is like comparing a Volkswagon to a Lamborgini. Simply put, developers will never build billion dollar developments next to the bus stations in Houston. A Houston citizen will never feel special on a bus the way a Dallas citizen does on a train. Tourists in Houston aren't going to get excited on the bus every time it bounces them up and down when it hits a gigantic pot hole. Come on now! You have to be joking certainly.

The next craze in real estate is happening right now and it involves building mini urban areas next to train stations. Why should Houston be concerned about this? Well, Houston doesn't have a lot of stations that don't already have lots of development around them. When Houston does finally build a line in which residents actually ride, then it will be Dallas companies who have the expertise to come in and build them.

The only positive about the big mess that Metro has in Houston right now is that it just might work out well one day. Midtown is a vacuum between downtown Houston and the Medical Center. Houston's plan won't seem so silly if Midtown does indeed become the central hub of the metro area one day. Most of us will probably be long dead before that happens.

Clearly, you are basing your comments on only the perceived attractiveness of trains over busses, and not any empirical evidence. If you had actually looked at transit numbers, you would have found that METRO's park&rides are jammed with riders, and that it is routinely hailed as one of the most efficient transit models. Maybe developers won't build next door (check out the Cypress and Kuykendahl P&Rs by the way), but people pile in from surrounding neighborhoods to ride it. So, if the point is actually using it versus merely looking good, then yes, I agree that it is a VW to Lambohrgini comparison.

Your use of the term real estate craze is a bit over the top. At best, it is a tiny niche market, that gets a lot of publicity, but does little to solve transit concerns. Right now, the only "craze" in real estate is the number of foreclosures occurring due to the subprime collapse.

[MidtownCoog]

Neither buses or trains make me feel "special". When I worked in London we tried like hell to avoid the tube. It was a depressing little trip most of the time.

Dallas and Houston rail is like a ride at Six Flags. If it ever turns into the real deal like NY or London you'll feel special if you can avoid it all together.

[editor]

Comparing Metro to Dart is like comparing a Volkswagon to a Lamborgini. Simply put, developers will never build billion dollar developments next to the bus stations in Houston. A Houston citizen will never feel special on a bus the way a Dallas citizen does on a train. Tourists in Houston aren't going to get excited on the bus every time it bounces them up and down when it hits a gigantic pot hole. Come on now! You have to be joking certainly.

The next craze in real estate is happening right now and it involves building mini urban areas next to train stations. Why should Houston be concerned about this? Well, Houston doesn't have a lot of stations that don't already have lots of development around them. When Houston does finally build a line in which residents actually ride, then it will be Dallas companies who have the expertise to come in and build them.

The only positive about the big mess that Metro has in Houston right now is that it just might work out well one day. Midtown is a vacuum between downtown Houston and the Medical Center. Houston's plan won't seem so silly if Midtown does indeed become the central hub of the metro area one day. Most of us will probably be long dead before that happens.

I completely agree with you on this. The problem comes when transportation is viewed from afar as merely moving "people." That makes the mistake of believing that raw numbers tell the whole story -- they don't. People are not cattle. They are not cogs in a box to be quantified en masse. You have many different kind of people using the transportation system who all have different needs, wants, desires, and fears.

There are people who are perfectly happy with Park & Ride and Houston has gone a very good job catering to those people.

But there are also people who will NEVER go to a Park & Ride for various reasons (safety, convenience, security, futility, etc...). They might ride a bus or a train from their neighborhood, but don't see the point of driving somewhere only to then get on mass transit.

Similarly, there are also people who will never ride a bus. And there are people who will refuse to ride a train. There are people who would rather not have a car at all.

Houston needs to work on transportation solutions for all of its people, or at least as many as is practical. But it can't do a good job with one sector and then pretend that the job is done. Again, people aren't cattle. If they don't like the transportation options provided to them by Metro you can't just herd them into an option they don't like. Instead, they'll just go back to their cars as the lesser of the available evils, which is part of what Metro and the city should be trying to prevent.

I know Nucklehead is going to be taken to task for his views on rail, but he's really right on this. It happens over and over in cities around the world, across America, and yes even in Texas as Dallas is proving. Let's listen a little closer to what he has to say before we get all defensive.

[MidtownCoog]

Houston needs to work on transportation solutions for all of its people, or at least as many as is practical.

Are you saying Houston is doing nothing?

[Jax]

I don't think he's saying that, he's saying it's important to give people as many transportation options as possible, because some solutions work for certain people better than others.

Park and ride works for some, others won't use park and ride but might take a train if it stopped in their neighborhood. Others might take a regular city bus. Still others might refuse to do anything except driving a car. He's just saying that it's important to keep the transportation options diverse. If we only had park and ride, it wouldn't work for everyone. If we only had buses, it wouldn't work for everyone. if we only had light rail, it wouldn't work for everyone. That's why London has busses as well as tube trains, and Toronto has street cars as well as subways, commuter trains, and busses.

[Houston19514]

I don't think he's saying that, he's saying it's important to give people as many transportation options as possible, because some solutions work for certain people better than others.

Park and ride works for some, others won't use park and ride but might take a train if it stopped in their neighborhood. Others might take a regular city bus. Still others might refuse to do anything except driving a car. He's just saying that it's important to keep the transportation options diverse. If we only had park and ride, it wouldn't work for everyone. If we only had buses, it wouldn't work for everyone. if we only had light rail, it wouldn't work for everyone. That's why London has busses as well as tube trains, and Toronto has street cars as well as subways, commuter trains, and busses.

... and Houston has light rail (and relatively soon, more of it), BRT, buses, and HOV Lane/P&R systems. Different modes for different purposes. Almost as if Houston was trying to develop "transportation solutions for all of its people, or at least as many as is practical."

P&R buses are NOT a substitute for a train that would stop in someone's neighborhood. They are a substitute for (and in most respects an improvement on) commuter rail. Commuter rail, in most cases, also serves park & ride lots in suburban communitie; it does not make stops in neighborhoods. Surely, no one is suggesting we build parallel commuter systems of rail and HOV/P&R buses to make sure we satisfy both the bus-phobic and the train-phobic. That is the surest plan for failure of the entire system that I can think of.

[MidtownCoog]

We are all masters of the obvious.

Seems the the only legit gripe about Houston is that we are moving slowly.

[nucklehead]

Clearly, you are basing your comments on only the perceived attractiveness of trains over busses, and not any empirical evidence. If you had actually looked at transit numbers, you would have found that METRO's park&rides are jammed with riders, and that it is routinely hailed as one of the most efficient transit models. Maybe developers won't build next door (check out the Cypress and Kuykendahl P&Rs by the way), but people pile in from surrounding neighborhoods to ride it. So, if the point is actually using it versus merely looking good, then yes, I agree that it is a VW to Lambohrgini comparison.

Your use of the term real estate craze is a bit over the top. At best, it is a tiny niche market, that gets a lot of publicity, but does little to solve transit concerns. Right now, the only "craze" in real estate is the number of foreclosures occurring due to the subprime collapse.

A transit concern? Have you ever rode the train in Dallas? I must admit that the city of Dallas hit a smashing home run with their light rail system. The first line built went to Oak Cliff of all places and it was well planned. It cuts right threw a very beautiful creek that runs through the Dallas zoo.

That is what Dallas did right and Houston failed to do miserably. Dart set out to sell the people on the idea first. Houston set out in a panic to catch up by running a line between its downtown and the medical center. Why would people live in downtown Houston and commute to the medical center or vice versa? The whole system is poorly designed. Even the foundational grade beneath the rail itself was so poorly conceived that drivers have a hard time differentiating its tone to the color of street pavement next to it.

Come on now. Quit living in denial. Houston blew it big time.

Figure that Dallas will have completed in the next 5 years the equivalent of what Houston dreams of having complected in the next 25. The city is also quickly catching up with

Houston in building another loop around its city and adding HOV lanes.

Another factor you need to take into account when considering transit is the differences between the metropolitan areas of Houston and DFW. Most of the urban area that Houston has exists within a 9 square mile area taking in downtown, midtown, art's district, medical center, college districts, uptown (Galleria), and Greenway Plaza.

In Dallas there are multiple urban types of areas that are seperated by 10 mile vacuums. For example, there will be over 100,000 people working in both downtown Dallas and another 100,000 working in Plano / Richardson in the near future. Between these two areas is a huge residential area along Central expressway and these people will have the opportunity to commute to work either way on the train. The same opportunity will be created for residents to work and live in either downtown Dallas or Las Colinas when that line opens up. So the vacuums created in Dallas are far more extinsive there than in Houston.

In Houston it looks like the master plan centers on the area of Midtown as the vacuum for its lone line.

In the future Dallas will better have its traffic flowing in both directions along its freeway systems which will make them the more efficient.

[MidtownCoog]

Figure that Dallas will have completed in the next 5 years the equivalent of what Houston dreams of having complected in the next 25.

It's very simple. Dallas got Federal funds and Houston did not thank to Tom Delay. This goes way back to the Kathy Whitmire days.

A little history would do you good. Houston is not in a rail race with Dallas.

[RedScare]

A transit concern? Have you ever rode the train in Dallas?

Yes. Several times.

Now, let me ask you a question. Do you have any facts or figures to back up any of what you say? I just posted some numbers on another thread. Feel free to look at them or go find some of your own. The numbers simply do not back up what you say. DART has more rail miles. It started sooner. However, it has less usage than Houston's miles. I do not make that statement as a comparison, but to show that you are not basing your statements on facts, but rather appearances.

I am a big fan of rail, both inner city and commuter. However, I also understand the political dynamic that transit agencies must operate within. METRO is doing an adequate job, given the constraints placed upon them. And the park&ride is one of the best in the country.

BTW, I lived in Dallas when they started the rail system. They did not sell it at all. They shoved it down people's throats, to great protest. You should read about it before you use it as proof, because it happens to be the opposite of what you claim.

[Houston19514]

A transit concern? Have you ever rode the train in Dallas? I must admit that the city of Dallas hit a smashing home run with their light rail system. The first line built went to Oak Cliff of all places and it was well planned. It cuts right threw a very beautiful creek that runs through the Dallas zoo.

That is what Dallas did right and Houston failed to do miserably. Dart set out to sell the people on the idea first. Houston set out in a panic to catch up by running a line between its downtown and the medical center. Why would people live in downtown Houston and commute to the medical center or vice versa? The whole system is poorly designed. Even the foundational grade beneath the rail itself was so poorly conceived that drivers have a hard time differentiating its tone to the color of street pavement next to it.

Come on now. Quit living in denial. Houston blew it big time.

Figure that Dallas will have completed in the next 5 years the equivalent of what Houston dreams of having complected in the next 25. The city is also quickly catching up with

Houston in building another loop around its city and adding HOV lanes.

Another factor you need to take into account when considering transit is the differences between the metropolitan areas of Houston and DFW. Most of the urban area that Houston has exists within a 9 square mile area taking in downtown, midtown, art's district, medical center, college districts, uptown (Galleria), and Greenway Plaza.

In Dallas there are multiple urban types of areas that are seperated by 10 mile vacuums. For example, there will be over 100,000 people working in both downtown Dallas and another 100,000 working in Plano / Richardson in the near future. Between these two areas is a huge residential area along Central expressway and these people will have the opportunity to commute to work either way on the train. The same opportunity will be created for residents to work and live in either downtown Dallas or Las Colinas when that line opens up. So the vacuums created in Dallas are far more extinsive there than in Houston.

In Houston it looks like the master plan centers on the area of Midtown as the vacuum for its lone line.

In the future Dallas will better have its traffic flowing in both directions along its freeway systems which will make them the more efficient.

Your contrast of the metropolitan areas (while not entirely accurate and certainly incomplete) actually make the case remarkably well that Houston's rail system should be quite different from Dallas's rail system. Indeed, Houston's starter line (the red line) serves most of the areas you list as constituting the Houston urban area (probably ONE of the reasons Houston's redline carries many more passengers than any similar stretch of Dallas's supposedly wildly successful rail system.) Furthermore, every single additional area you list as constituting the remainder of Houston's urban area will be connected by the upcoming University Line. Not bad for a system that "blew it big time" and "failed miserably". Prediction: Houston's LRT and GRT system, when all up and running in a few years will carry more passengers than Dallas's entire DART rail system (which really won't be hard to do, since the Red Line alone carries, what, about 65% as many as the 45-mile DART system?)

[nucklehead]

Neither buses or trains make me feel "special". When I worked in London we tried like hell to avoid the tube. It was a depressing little trip most of the time.

Dallas and Houston rail is like a ride at Six Flags. If it ever turns into the real deal like NY or London you'll feel special if you can avoid it all together.

I used to joke that the light rail in Houston only had one station (in reference to the small train ride at its zoo).

You obviously have never rode upon the train in Dallas if you think it is minor league. It is quite unique and well designed when compared to the one in Houston or even when compared to other systems around the world for that matter. Even the citizens in Dallas have started taking their wonderful system for granted as it ages. But it is really quite nice as it is designed today and consider that it is only half complete. How nice will it become when the system doubles in size the next few years?

Each one of the stations in the DART system were designed like mini museums where the history of the surrounding neighborhoods got researched before being uniquely incorporated as art work into the design of each individual station.

You speak of taking care of its citizens and it seems to me that the Metro system is the one who is all elbows and knees when it comes to having a bruising relationship with their customers. Just how much does Metro step on its citizens? Aren't they trying to sell to the public a plan to build in the southeast part of the city a tram system that uses buses instead of a light rail system? Didn't people in the city originally vote for a light rail system to be built there? Isn't Metro also trying to build through neighborhoods who by and large appose their plan to do so?

In Dallas the light rail system makes the city seem more intimate in comparison. Though it isn't perfect by any means, the light rail plan there does seem to have an overall agenda that won't disrupt neighborhoods. Metro is having to be disruptive today with its neighborhoods because the agency and the city of Houston chose in the past to give up lots of established rail rights of way; while, DART has been very careful in their purchasing of such rights of way to insure future expansions.

Consider that the Oak Cliff part of Dallas is very similar to the southeast part of Houston in the types of houses built as well as when they got built including similar ethnicities and wealth of the citizens who live in them; yet, that part of Dallas was served quite special by Dart by the way it got the very first line built in the over all system.

At least one part of Houston is getting it right, though. Recently the zoo there decided to expland its rail and add another station.

Admit it Houston. You blew it.

[VelvetJ]

I completely agree with you on this. The problem comes when transportation is viewed from afar as merely moving "people." That makes the mistake of believing that raw numbers tell the whole story -- they don't. People are not cattle. They are not cogs in a box to be quantified en masse. You have many different kind of people using the transportation system who all have different needs, wants, desires, and fears.

There are people who are perfectly happy with Park & Ride and Houston has gone a very good job catering to those people.

But there are also people who will NEVER go to a Park & Ride for various reasons (safety, convenience, security, futility, etc...). They might ride a bus or a train from their neighborhood, but don't see the point of driving somewhere only to then get on mass transit.

Similarly, there are also people who will never ride a bus. And there are people who will refuse to ride a train. There are people who would rather not have a car at all.

Houston needs to work on transportation solutions for all of its people, or at least as many as is practical. But it can't do a good job with one sector and then pretend that the job is done. Again, people aren't cattle. If they don't like the transportation options provided to them by Metro you can't just herd them into an option they don't like. Instead, they'll just go back to their cars as the lesser of the available evils, which is part of what Metro and the city should be trying to prevent.

I know Nucklehead is going to be taken to task for his views on rail, but he's really right on this. It happens over and over in cities around the world, across America, and yes even in Texas as Dallas is proving. Let's listen a little closer to what he has to say before we get all defensive.

Very good post. I know some of those people who would not ride a bus from the Woodlands or Katy but will ride a train in a second. Whether it makes sense to some of us, is not the point. Trains would attract a segment of our population that currently would not go near any sort of bus whether it's Park and ride or standard. A friend of mine lives in a townhome in Katy. She is one of those that will not take a bus, but if her townhome was on a rail line that ran into downtown, she would take it "in a heart beat", in her words.

Quality OPTIONS is the key.

[MidtownCoog]

Qualtiy options in this case sound like duplication of effort.And are there really townhomes in Katy?And like it or not, even by train, you'll eventually have to take a bus or a cab to get to your final destination. These magial trains can't stop at every building.