Burying Utility Lines - Aesthetics Too Much for Houston?

[musicman]

I really do not see the problem with burying power lines. Whats the most EXTENSIVE things we have in the city other than roads or highways? The answer= SEWERS. Reroute the power lines underground using the sewer system. If trouble arises in the lines, it should not be too difficult to get into the sewer system to repair them. I wonder if anyone had ever looked into that?

Just hope there's not an inadvertant cut in the line cause the next time you sit on the pot the shock might send you flying.

The gases in the sewer line and electricity probably wont be a good mix.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Just hope there's not an inadvertant cut in the line cause the next time you sit on the pot the shock might send you flying.

The gases in the sewer line and electricity probably wont be a good mix.

Who will be there cutting lines? Gremlins? Its not the first time lines have been buried using sewers and this hasnt been a problem before

[ricco67]

Water/electricity/Methane.

Yum. The fire triangle is right there.

And who will cut the wires? Rats.

Even if they're incased in steal, those little f@@@kers will chew through anything.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Water/electricity/Methane.

Yum. The fire triangle is right there.

And who will cut the wires? Rats.

Even if they're incased in steal, those little f@@@kers will chew through anything.

Must be an awful lot of explosions downtown Houston and every other large CBD around the country because of this.........

[ricco67]

You're right, in new york they have seperate routes for elecctrical and the other utilities. but they do have issues with rats eating through cables, though.

[musicman]

Who will be there cutting lines? Gremlins? Its not the first time lines have been buried using sewers and this hasnt been a problem before

Remember not all the power lines are the same. The voltage varies depending on where the actual wire is in the system i.e. the closer to the home, the lower the voltage. Also there are also low voltage systems which are not a hazard.

I know that the old sewers are upgraded by running another "pipe" thru the old one. This is less invasive than digging up everyone's backyard. At least in my neighborhood that's how they were upgraded. If there were high voltage wires internal to the pipe, this method of upgrade would not be possible from the public works perspective.

[Montrose1100]

You're right, in new york they have seperate routes for elecctrical and the other utilities. but they do have issues with rats eating through cables, though.

Is this the same New York with sewer rats the size of cats?

[ricco67]

yeah, the same one that seems to have the minor electrical issues going on right now.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

Is this the same New York with sewer rats the size of cats?

my dad told me that the rats in Mexico City made the NY rats look like mice...no joke

[DaTrain]

Makes sense from a safety, reliability and aesthetic standpoint. Here's an interesting article discussing this:

The Future Is Here, and It's Ugly; A Spreading Techno-blight of Wires, Cables and Towers Sparks a Revolt

http://tech2.nytimes.com/mem/technology/te...amp;oref=slogin

Add to thread: another interesting link, this time about a California electric company investing every year to bury lines underground. Centerpoint should put away a million dollars every year for the next 15 years to do this -- and contract with the city street department to do this from then on out.

[gingersiam]

Does anyone know approx. how much it would cost to bury utility lines in Houston? My boyfriend and I have been looking at houses and several of the ones we are interested in have powerlines and cables running over the backyard. It looks pretty hideous.

Thanks!

[foxmulder]

Does anyone know approx. how much it would cost to bury utility lines in Houston? My boyfriend and I have been looking at houses and several of the ones we are interested in have powerlines and cables running over the backyard. It looks pretty hideous.

Thanks!

Has anyone thought of the cost incurred of UPGRADING the grid either cable tv, phone or electrical? When my neighborhood was uprgaded with cable internet they ran a coaxial type cable and strung it with a wire wrapping device. In 30 mins they covered about a mile. Imagine underground? Not to mention the green transformers for cars to crash into. Or worse in your backyard.

[westguy76]

i HAVE a green transformer box in my back yard and noone would no it. has shrubs planted around it and is placed in the corner. frames the yard to have shrubs there anyhow so no big deal to have one in the back yard. and it beats the alternative.

[musicman]

Widespread hardening of the power grid along the Gulf Coast is too expensive a solution to prevent another blanket blackout like Houston experienced int he weekns following Hurricane Ike, according to a report commissioned by the state's Public Utility Commission.

Richard Brown, vice president at Quanta Technology, spearheaded the report. He said broad-based approaches such as burying all power lines are cost-prohibitive at a price of $1 million per mile.

"If you put just distribution lines underground, it would double rates," he said of the transportation costs consumers pay as part of their utility bills.

Texas has 28,200 miles of overhead power lines within 50 miles of the coast, which would cost $28 billion to bury. By contrast, the cost of storm damage to the grid in the last decade was $1.8 billion, according to the report.

full article

[Subdude]

Widespread hardening of the power grid along the Gulf Coast is too expensive a solution to prevent another blanket blackout like Houston experienced int he weekns following Hurricane Ike, according to a report commissioned by the state's Public Utility Commission.

Richard Brown, vice president at Quanta Technology, spearheaded the report. He said broad-based approaches such as burying all power lines are cost-prohibitive at a price of $1 million per mile.

"If you put just distribution lines underground, it would double rates," he said of the transportation costs consumers pay as part of their utility bills.

Texas has 28,200 miles of overhead power lines within 50 miles of the coast, which would cost $28 billion to bury. By contrast, the cost of storm damage to the grid in the last decade was $1.8 billion, according to the report.

full article

And what was the economic cost of millions of people not having power for weeks? There's no reason they would all be buried at once. Couldn't it be phased in over 10-15 years?

Also I've pointed it out before, ongoing maintenance costs are a lot less for buried lines (at least in urban areas - the argument is less clear in rural areas). My source for this was some transmission engineers.

[musicman]

And what was the economic cost of millions of people not having power for weeks? There's no reason they would all be buried at once. Couldn't it be phased in over 10-15 years?

if burying just the distribution lines underground doubles rates, that additional cost alone makes it cost prohibitive. you won't get a near majority to agree to this.

[TheNiche]

And what was the economic cost of millions of people not having power for weeks? There's no reason they would all be buried at once. Couldn't it be phased in over 10-15 years?

Also I've pointed it out before, ongoing maintenance costs are a lot less for buried lines (at least in urban areas - the argument is less clear in rural areas). My source for this was some transmission engineers.

According to the City of Houston's website.

The Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown MSA's Gross Area Product (GAP) in 2006 was $325.5 billion, slightly larger than Austria's, Poland's or Saudi Arabia's Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

Approximately 75% of electricity customers had power after the first week. The remaining 25% took over a month after Ike to restore power. So let's say that the 75% of first-week customers averaged five days of outages and that the remaining 25% of customers averaged two weeks.

Two weeks of a 75% Gross Area Product loss would equate to a $3.3 billion loss, and the remainder would be another $3.1 billion loss; together, that's a $6.4 billion dollar impact. Reality is that the most critical infrastructure was repaired quickly, however, so I'm positive that it is less than that. I don't know what the appropriate adjustment factor is, though.

Another thing to consider is that even though electricity was out in many areas, that doesn't mean that productivity came to a standstill. The 'broken window effect' applies.

[Mr. Chenevert]

This argument again?

I love all the napkin calculations.

Nobody knows how much it would cost to bury the lines.

Nobody knows how much money was lost be not having power after Ike.

Nobody knows when the next major outage is going to hit.

That doesnt mean we should try and improve the city.

Underground power lines have many advantages over above ground lines.

[webdude]

And less ugliness might also increase tourism dollars. Ok, nobody knows.

[musicman]

This argument again?

I love all the napkin calculations.

not sure anyone is arguing. sounds like whining.

[TheNiche]

Nobody knows how much it would cost to bury the lines.

How do you figure? The guy quoted by the Chronicle said it was $1 million per mile. No doubt he got his information from somewhere.

Nobody knows how much money was lost be not having power after Ike.

No, not to the Dollar, but we can get an estimate to within a reasonable range pretty easily. What's wrong with that?

Nobody knows when the next major outage is going to hit.

We have plenty of documented history to go on regarding the frequency and destructiveness of storms. Perhaps it is impossible to say whether a destructive storm will strike this year, the next, or even within the coming decade, but it is possible to determine within a reasonable margin of error what the odds are that a storm of any given magnitude will strike the Houston metropolitan area in any given year. For the purposes of cost-benefit analysis, that is all that is necessary.

That doesnt mean we should try and improve the city.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Underground power lines have many advantages over above ground lines.

That statement is accurate, but it is imprecise. If you desire to construct a compelling argument justifying a massive expenditure on replacement infrastructure, I suggest that you find ways to enumerate the benefits. ...something better than just that it looks cool.

[Houston19514]

How do you figure? The guy quoted by the Chronicle said it was $1 million per mile. No doubt he got his information from somewhere.

No, not to the Dollar, but we can get an estimate to within a reasonable range pretty easily. What's wrong with that?

We have plenty of documented history to go on regarding the frequency and destructiveness of storms. Perhaps it is impossible to say whether a destructive storm will strike this year, the next, or even within the coming decade, but it is possible to determine within a reasonable margin of error what the odds are that a storm of any given magnitude will strike the Houston metropolitan area in any given year. For the purposes of cost-benefit analysis, that is all that is necessary.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

That statement is accurate, but it is imprecise. If you desire to construct a compelling argument justifying a massive expenditure on replacement infrastructure, I suggest that you find ways to enumerate the benefits. ...something better than just that it looks cool.

Well said, Niche

[Heights2Bastrop]

I don't see what would prevent them (power transmission towers) from being reused elsewhere...just take the lines, off, un-bolt the bases and haul 'em away to somewhere else.

How about turning them into windmills? It shouldn