Woodlands Loop Freeway

[editor]

From today's dead tree edition of the Houston Chronicle:

Quote

One Texas politician is proposing building a loop around The Woodlands, similar to Loop 610 around Houston, to reduce traffic in the area, slamming the state’s current $40 million plan to widen existing highways in the community.

State representative Steve Toth thinks the plan to widen I-45 won't really do much to fix traffic for people who live in that area, and a loop freeway is the solution.  My between-the-lines reading is that he thinks the latest I-45 widening project will only aid through traffic, and not help his constituents.

[Montrose1100]

46 minutes ago, editor said:

From today's dead tree edition of the Houston Chronicle:

State representative Steve Toth thinks the plan to widen I-45 won't really do much to fix traffic for people who live in that area, and a loop freeway is the solution.  My between-the-lines reading is that he thinks the latest I-45 widening project will only aid through traffic, and not help his constituents.

Where would they even propose this? Spring Creek?

They should extend the Woodlands Parkway to meet up with 249. 

[004n063]

The solution to traffic in the Woodlands is spectacularly obvious, but unfortunately, it's equally obvious that it's not going to happen.

[Luminare]

If I were a politician I vote no to any funding for this...unless as a compromise The Woodlands officially incorporates and begins the process of setting up its own municipal facilities. This area for too long has kick this can down the road, and is too big at this point avoid it.

[editor]

2 hours ago, 004n063 said:

The solution to traffic in the Woodlands is spectacularly obvious, but unfortunately, it's equally obvious that it's not going to happen.

As someone who hasn't been to the Woodlands in 20 years, it's not obvious to me.

What's obvious to me is that there should be commuter rail between The Woodlands and Houston.  Lots of cities much smaller than Houston have commuter rail (Denver, Hartford, Minneapolis, Orlando, Miami, Boston, Baltimore, San Diego, Sonoma, Santa Fe, Portland, Nashville, Dallas, Salt Lake City, Seattle...). 

But I think this issue is about getting around within The Woodlands.  Are you advocating for a circulator trolley, or something else?

[Ross]

Here's the story from Your Conroe News https://www.yourconroenews.com/neighborhood/woodlands/news/article/Is-The-Woodlands-big-enough-to-need-its-own-17322744.php

Running heavy rail sounds good, but doesn't have a lot of supporters. That rail would likely have to run down the middle of 45 or down the Hardy Toll road, which would require cooperation from TxDOT(who has never met an acceptable rail project) or HCTRA(who seem not to have a lot of interest in rail), as the mainline tracks will not be available, given the amount of freight traffic. I asked a Metro rep a number of years back why they weren't considering rail down the freeways, and was told that a)No heavy rail could be built until all of the light rail projects were complete, since "you can't just dump the rail passengers into a corner of Downtown and b) I didn't understand urban transportation planning after questioning that statement. Nothing like insulting a citizen who asked an honest question.

The Woodlands can pound sand. Voters there rejected extending Woodlands Parkway to 249, as it would enable "those horrible Tomball types" to get to The Woodlands faster.

I don't see the benefit of a loop around The Woodlands. The proposed lanes on 242 make more sense.

[004n063]

49 minutes ago, editor said:

As someone who hasn't been to the Woodlands in 20 years, it's not obvious to me.

What's obvious to me is that there should be commuter rail between The Woodlands and Houston.  Lots of cities much smaller than Houston have commuter rail (Denver, Hartford, Minneapolis, Orlando, Miami, Boston, Baltimore, San Diego, Sonoma, Santa Fe, Portland, Nashville, Dallas, Salt Lake City, Seattle...). 

But I think this issue is about getting around within The Woodlands.  Are you advocating for a circulator trolley, or something else?

Regional rail is a key component, and a trolley loop or two would also go a long way, but The Woodlands, like Kingwood, actually has a pretty good parallel network of comfortable, safe, well-shaded trails. If a regional train ran to a central station at The Woodlands, basically every resident would have a pretty easy bike ride.

Of course, that doesn't mean everyone will ride, and certainly not every day. But that plus a trolley (or even just a nice bus with a dedicated lane) means everyone has the option of driving, walking, biking, or transit.

The effect of this kind of thing is that car traffic is sort of capped - as it gets worse, more people decide it isn't worth it, and it improves.

30 minutes ago, Ross said:

Here's the story from Your Conroe News https://www.yourconroenews.com/neighborhood/woodlands/news/article/Is-The-Woodlands-big-enough-to-need-its-own-17322744.php

Running heavy rail sounds good, but doesn't have a lot of supporters. That rail would likely have to run down the middle of 45 or down the Hardy Toll road, which would require cooperation from TxDOT(who has never met an acceptable rail project) or HCTRA(who seem not to have a lot of interest in rail), as the mainline tracks will not be available, given the amount of freight traffic. I asked a Metro rep a number of years back why they weren't considering rail down the freeways, and was told that a)No heavy rail could be built until all of the light rail projects were complete, since "you can't just dump the rail passengers into a corner of Downtown and b) I didn't understand urban transportation planning after questioning that statement. Nothing like insulting a citizen who asked an honest question.

It sounds to me like the rep was the one who didn't understand urban planning. What an infuriating conversation that must have been.

[Ross]

1 hour ago, 004n063 said:

 

It sounds to me like the rep was the one who didn't understand urban planning. What an infuriating conversation that must have been.

I forgot to mention that after telling me I didn't understand urban planning, she turned around and walked away. No "Did that help", or "Is there anything else?". Just turned and walked off without another word. 

[004n063]

3 minutes ago, Ross said:

I forgot to mention that after telling me I didn't understand urban planning, she turned around and walked away. No "Did that help", or "Is there anything else?". Just turned and walked off without another word. 

We need another reaction emoji. Something with steam coming out of the ears.

I will say, though - I recently went to a Metro-hosted event (looking at the University Corridor BRT proposal) at HCC Central and talked to several metro reps there, and all of them were very nice and receptive and seemed to be genuinely interested in talking about the project. Maybe the culture there is changing? Or maybe you just caught a particularly bad one. 

[zaphod]

I suspect that the traffic people are concerned about there is east and west, not north or south. There is really nowhere to put such a thing that wouldn't involve condemning large amounts of private property or ruining the natural amenities that make The Woodlands desirable in the first place. The idea is a nonstarter.

[citykid09]

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

I suspect that the traffic people are concerned about there is east and west, not north or south. There is really nowhere to put such a thing that wouldn't involve condemning large amounts of private property or ruining the natural amenities that make The Woodlands desirable in the first place. The idea is a nonstarter.

They should look in to Elon Musk’s Tunnel Boring Company. Also like mentioned above commuter rail BART style would be preferable.