Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Montrose1100

Houston Atheist Meet Up

Recommended Posts

Anyone apart of their meet up? Any good? I picked up a business card from them at pride 2013, and finally decided to join. If you wish not to peer out from the shadows send me a PM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sounds to me more like a social/drinking event (if bars aren't your thing) with a consistent crowd, because the only other thing that's coming to mind is some sort of hackneyed A.A. parody ("Hi, I'm Bob. I've been an atheist for 13 years, and I'm proud of it." All: "Hi, Bob.")

Edited by IronTiger
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And then I would ruin everything by proclaiming I'm Agnostic lol ......but seriously I am xD Would still be funny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sounds to me more like a social/drinking event (if bars aren't your thing) with a consistent crowd

I think that's what is appealing to me. I only have 1 other friend whom is an atheist. It would be nice to talk about it with other people, maybe make some new friends. Plus I always need an excuse to drink & socialize.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And then I would ruin everything by proclaiming I'm Agnostic lol ......but seriously I am xD Would still be funny.

They actually have an agnostic and humanist group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys talk about at an Atheist meet?

 

I consider myself Christian, but I don't claim any church. When I was younger, I spent a lot of Sundays going to different churches and I think it's truly fascinating how they go about doing things. I think going to LDS church was probably the most interesting experience I've had in that regard. Completely different from anything else.

 

Anyway, mainly just curious what happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys talk about at an Atheist meet?

 

I consider myself Christian, but I don't claim any church. When I was younger, I spent a lot of Sundays going to different churches and I think it's truly fascinating how they go about doing things. I think going to LDS church was probably the most interesting experience I've had in that regard. Completely different from anything else.

 

Anyway, mainly just curious what happens.

Honestly I have no idea. I was hoping to get a little insight here. I might be able to attend my first meeting a week from today.

 

I was agnostic for as long as I can remember. About two years ago I came to my current conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, even for people who aren't active followers of a religion (and/or once-a-week Christians) consider church to be something social. Since atheism doesn't have an analogue to churches (no "Houses of Reason" or somesuch), it is rather fitting that there's independent groups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys talk about at an Atheist meet?

 

 

Exactly. I'd be a little curious too.

 

I'm not an atheist, I am agnostic. I did see another post in this thread about there being a meet up group for them as well. But for what? Seems like an odd thing to have a meet up group on. What would you talk about?

 

OK, it might be somewhat entertaining to talk about what it means to be an atheist (or an agnostic) for about 10 minutes, but then what? Talk about hobbies? You don't need to be in an atheist meet up to do that. If I wanted to talk abut photography, I could do that at a photography club. Or is there a such thing as "atheist photography" now?

 

To each their own, of course, but it just doesn't seem to be a topic or subject that would lend itself to much camaraderie or friendships. And I just don't feel any need to meet with or be around atheists (or in my case, agnostics). What would I gain from it?

 

So, sorry I just don't get it, but yeah, like samagon, I'd sure be curious to hear what people would talk about at an atheist meet up.

Edited by Firebird65

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. I'd be a little curious too.

I'm not an atheist, I am agnostic. I did see another post in this thread about there being a meet up group for them as well. But for what? Seems like an odd thing to have a meet up group on. What would you talk about?

OK, it might be somewhat entertaining to talk about what it means to be an atheist (or an agnostic) for about 10 minutes, but then what? Talk about hobbies? You don't need to be in an atheist meet up to do that. If I wanted to talk abut photography, I could do that at a photography club. Or is there a such thing as "atheist photography" now?

To each their own, of course, but it just doesn't seem to be a topic or subject that would lend itself to much camaraderie or friendships. And I just don't feel any need to meet with or be around atheists (or in my case, agnostics). What would I gain from it?

So, sorry I just don't get it, but yeah, like samagon, I'd sure be curious to hear what people would talk about at an atheist meet up.

If I had to speculate they will probably talk about a lot of things. I think it's about meeting more like minded people. I'll return with a full report a week from tomorrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I had to speculate they will probably talk about a lot of things. I think it's about meeting more like minded people. I'll return with a full report a week from tomorrow.

 

I look forward to that report. Mainly because there is something that I suspect will go on, but I'd be curious to see if that is actually the case. What I suspect is that it will be little more than a Christian-bashing festival. Seems to me that would be pretty much the only reason for atheists to gather. But, I do stand to be corrected and it will be interesting to see if your report does so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look forward to that report. Mainly because there is something that I suspect will go on, but I'd be curious to see if that is actually the case. What I suspect is that it will be little more than a Christian-bashing festival. Seems to me that would be pretty much the only reason for atheists to gather. But, I do stand to be corrected and it will be interesting to see if your report does so.

 

Maybe they'll also discuss atheist activism?  Keeping God out of the schools, textbooks and such?

 

Personally, I'm holding out for a revival of the Dionysian Mysteries.  I guess meeting at a lounge might be a good start on that.

Edited by august948

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look forward to that report. Mainly because there is something that I suspect will go on, but I'd be curious to see if that is actually the case. What I suspect is that it will be little more than a Christian-bashing festival. Seems to me that would be pretty much the only reason for atheists to gather. But, I do stand to be corrected and it will be interesting to see if your report does so.

I certainly hope not! That's a concern of mine as well, maybe we'll just exchange anti-religious memes. Lol just kidding. I am crossing my fingers it will be a mature group, maybe talking about politics, education, science, along those lines. What I'm really hoping for is networking and making some more friends in the loop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly hope not! That's a concern of mine as well, maybe we'll just exchange anti-religious memes. Lol just kidding. I am crossing my fingers it will be a mature group, maybe talking about politics, education, science, along those lines. What I'm really hoping for is networking and making some more friends in the loop.

 

Well, you'll never know until you actually go!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly hope not! That's a concern of mine as well, maybe we'll just exchange anti-religious memes. Lol just kidding. I am crossing my fingers it will be a mature group, maybe talking about politics, education, science, along those lines. What I'm really hoping for is networking and making some more friends in the loop.

 

Well, politics might be a bit of a sticky situation, since it might someone into a frothing rage and there's a high chance that everyone will agree (though there are a variety of important non-partisan issues that don't involve that sort of thing)

 

As for "maturity", you might just run into the right group of people to play Cards Against Humanity. (Mature? Depends on your definition)

Edited by IronTiger
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iron Tiger, I'm not sure if you are the moderator of this, but it does appear you were there last poster there, so I guess that means you're the proper person to ask this of.

 

I've very seldom scrolled down to the bottom of the main page. Not sure why. But I did scroll all the way down yesterday and I noticed what appeared to be, at least to me, a new feature... the HAIF Charrettes. It is described as a protected forum and apparently you need a password to enter.

 

What is the HAIF Charrettes? And why is it protected? How does one become a member? TIA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reporting live from the scene. So a pretty mixed

Group of people. It seems like a duel meeting with the free thinkers and the atheists. Unfortunaley I've been stuck next to the guy that smells like cat pee.

Started out potentially as some good conversations, buffalo bayou project, recycling and the "myths" behind it. Some nice folks but I don't know what I expecting. Maybe some more scientists/professionals? It's more like a scifi convention. I'm three beers in and still don't know what to talk about. With the HAIF meetup it flowed better, not really one or two people directing the conversation, everyone had a chance to contribute.

I'll give it another hour before I come to a conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reporting live from the scene. So a pretty mixed

Group of people. It seems like a duel meeting with the free thinkers and the atheists. Unfortunaley I've been stuck next to the guy that smells like cat pee.

Started out potentially as some good conversations, buffalo bayou project, recycling and the "myths" behind it. Some nice folks but I don't know what I expecting. Maybe some more scientists/professionals? It's more like a scifi convention. I'm three beers in and still don't know what to talk about. With the HAIF meetup it flowed better, not really one or two people directing the conversation, everyone had a chance to contribute.

I'll give it another hour before I come to a conclusion.

Based on your descriptions, I'm guessing it's more basement dwelling nerds than the free-thinking scientists you were expecting. You know, someone that at least looks like a certain YouTube personality, shown below.

AmazingAtheist.jpg

(Image from KnowYourMeme.com)

Also, knowing my own experiences with a similar group of people, please let me post "I KNEW IT!!" if you do end up playing Cards Against Humanity. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hahaha! Half the guys looked like that! The free thinkers side was way more interesting. Commercial real estate agent, and a lot more oil & gas than I expected. Talked about good movies, where they were from, what they thought about Houston, I had a really good time. 7 beers in I dragged the younger people to blur and took tequila shots.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Amazing Atheist is a terrible human being.

 

Anyway, atheists do face discrimination both in the workplace and elsewhere, so that could be a good topic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you ever heard of this group? It's not the same one is it?

http://www.houstonoasis.org/

That was actually mentioned. I think there is also a church of free thinkers group too. I was told they organize well and go to protests (yawn), and have speakers and that have specific topics and not an open discussion.

I did make a friend with this lady who was on my level. We instantly bonded over our disgust of cat pee man and immediately made the decision to save the other people our age and go get drunk to make up for the complete snooze fest we fell victim too.

This one lady wanted us to come over to her house where I imagine cards against humanity would have been played.

Don't get me wrong they were nice people but not my cup of tea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting to hear how the meeting turned out. I think it illustrates how people that (at least appear to) have a common interest can actually be quite diverse.  The lesson I would take from that is that it is good to be careful about painting people with a broad brush.   Even smart humans are still vulnerable to buying into the tribal impulse to punish those who don't appear to be sufficiently loyal to their own tribe.

 

I am a lifelong atheist (well, since age 10-12 or so).  the few times i went to formal "atheist" meetings when i was young, i didn't meet many people i could relate to.  i would rather have been around smart, but open-minded, theists. 

 

But ... that doesn't mean that there aren't interesting people to talk to out there, despite how they choose to label themselves.

 

 

Edited by ArchFan
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting to hear how the meeting turned out. I think it illustrates how people that (at least appear to) have a common interest can actually be quite diverse.  The lesson I would take from that is that it is good to be careful about painting people with a broad brush.   Even smart humans are still vulnerable to buying into the tribal impulse to punish those who don't appear to be sufficiently loyal to their own tribe.

 

I am a lifelong atheist (well, since age 10-12 or so).  the few times i went to formal "atheist" meetings when i was young, i didn't meet many people i could relate to.  i would rather have been around smart, but open-minded, theists. 

 

But ... that doesn't mean that there aren't interesting people to talk to out there, despite how they choose to label themselves.

 

I agree with this sentiment.  I joined a humanist meetup and before i could attend a meeting they were getting together for a protest; I'm not inclined to go to a meeting now.  I didn't sign up because I have an ax to grind or want to prove anything.  Intelligent people who are open-minded, regardless of religious or spiritual conviction, should be able to find common ground.  It's the proselytizing hard-liners that are the issue.  An atheist who wants to argue that there is no God annoys me just as much as the Christian who wants to convince everyone they need to be saved from hell.  I'm much more comfortable in the "I don't know" realm.  The website sevfiv recommended looks quite interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, it also occurs to me to comment on seeing "scientists/professionals" and "oil & gas" people attending.  In Houston, I think the O&G industry accounts for a big portion of the "scientist" and/or "PhD" population here.  

 

I am one of those.  As a guy like that, I feel a strong commitment to trying to think rationally.  But, I also realize that as a human being, that is a goal that one is unlikely to always achieve in all aspects of one's life.  That is based on my own inner reflection, plus having worked with so many natural-science PhDs in my career, some religious, some not.  

 

Consequently, I think people have a right to hold and express their views.   However, in tandem, we should be vigilant to accord others the same right.

Edited by ArchFan
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys talk about at an Atheist meet?

 

 

 

They get together for fellowship and camaraderie.  To strengthen their bonds and friendships though similar interests and thought lines.  They learn from each other and grow.  They study their common books that explain their way of thinking and how they should behave.  Sometimes there is a leader who helps guide them to better understanding of their ways.  They may even engage in some communal food or drink.

 

You know... church.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will never be able to comprehend why people who are strongly "anti"something feel the need to meet up and share. I can see how a Broccoli Lovers Club might be of interest to a small group, but a Death to Evil Green Weed Society?

 

Exception -- the "I Hate Gingers Consortium"... I can understand that one. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would seem there would be a mix of regular 'ol atheists and then anti-theists (and everyone in between). I usually associate meetup type things with an activity (cooking, biking, running), not philosophy or line of thought so it's interesting to read about how it went..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will never be able to comprehend why people who are strongly "anti"something feel the need to meet up and share.

 

Don't know if this helps you or not, but you're not the only one who can't comprehend that. If you ever figure it out, let me know 'cause I'd sure be curious myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will never be able to comprehend why people who are strongly "anti"something feel the need to meet up and share. I can see how a Broccoli Lovers Club might be of interest to a small group, but a Death to Evil Green Weed Society?

 

Exception -- the "I Hate Gingers Consortium"... I can understand that one. :D

 

 

Don't know if this helps you or not, but you're not the only one who can't comprehend that. If you ever figure it out, let me know 'cause I'd sure be curious myself.

 

Just because someone does not share your faith, it does not necessarily follow that they are "against" your faith.  Failing to understand a faith is likely based on a lack of introduction and experience - but those don't have to fall into being "agin'," either.  To put it in more neutral terms, I cannot for the life of me understand how someone could actually enjoy jumping out of an airplane.  I simply accept the word of friends and family members who claim that they do.

 

IMO, failing to respect the faith (or lack thereof) of others is simply intolerance.

 

There is, however, also a place for "anti" groups - for example, people banding together to combat intolerance and ignorance (though that could certainly be cast in the more positive terms of pursuing acceptance, as well).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because someone does not share your faith, it does not necessarily follow that they are "against" your faith.  Failing to understand a faith is likely based on a lack of introduction and experience - but those don't have to fall into being "agin'," either.  

 

First off, I'm agnostic. I have no faith to be "for" or "against". Second, I believe I can speak for gmac (and I can certainly speak for myself)  when I say I don't think his post was necessarily about faith or religion, and mine definitely wasn't. Neither of us mentioned faith nor religion and gmac specifically used the words "against SOMETHING" (emphasis mine), meaning against anything you can imagine, be it religion or be it broccoli or, as he said himself, evil green weed.

 

However, as you want to talk religion (and don't get me wrong, that's OK), even though I am agnostic, I can't fathom a single reason as to why atheists would want to gather and meet up except for the fact they are against religion and want to sit around and bash it. To each their own, I suppose, but that hardly seems to me (and I've mentioned this earlier in another post) like an event that would lead to a lot of camaraderie and friendships. As I've never been to an atheist gathering, I am, of course, only speculating, but that's the way it seems to me and I was interested in seeing the poster's report on what actually went on in one.

 

From the poster's report, it seems that if the event had very little to do with atheism at all. So I wonder 1) why they even held it and 2) why they called it an atheist gathering when it sounded like more a sci-fi convention (according to the person who was there). If they were going to sit around and talk sci-fi, why not just call it a sci-fi gathering?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the poster's report, it seems that if the event had very little to do with atheism at all. So I wonder 1) why they even held it and 2) why they called it an atheist gathering when it sounded like more a sci-fi convention (according to the person who was there). If they were going to sit around and talk sci-fi, why not just call it a sci-fi gathering?

 

I was being judgmental as I have been to an anime convention back in the golden years of 6th grade. It wasn't something I was into, but rather to go with a friend. Anyways, it was like that, or at least at first (the Atheist side).

 

I did roll my eyes at this guy complaining about the God Bless America signs on Whataburger. But he was the only one who said something like that.

 

So I did learn my lesson and won't be joining the group anymore. I was just tired of not being able to talk to someone about what I think, what I know about, what I don't, and hear some other ideas (I don't need to be convinced of anything, I just like learning about what other people think, it's interesting sometimes). Of course that didn't happen, but it was nice to network a little and I did meet some really nice and kind people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They get together for fellowship and camaraderie.  To strengthen their bonds and friendships though similar interests and thought lines.  They learn from each other and grow.  They study their common books that explain their way of thinking and how they should behave.  Sometimes there is a leader who helps guide them to better understanding of their ways.  They may even engage in some communal food or drink.

 

You know... church.

 

That makes sense.  There are people - including I suppose atheists - who are looking for the community of a church without the doctrinal baggage.  Saw this article recently on the "spiritual but not religious". 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/us/examining-the-growth-of-the-spiritual-but-not-religious.html?_r=0

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know if this helps you or not, but you're not the only one who can't comprehend that. If you ever figure it out, let me know 'cause I'd sure be curious myself.

 

Well, it's often hard for people to know what it has been like to walk in other peoples' shoes.

 

Consider this:  what would it feel like to live in a society where most of the people who are willing to publicly state an opinion on a given subject would also be inclined to vilify a minority that does not share that opinion.  Even odder, a minority that (admittedly sometimes only in theory) wants to think they are thinking rationally, rather that just buying into whatever belief system dominates around them.

 

I don't say this to be mean or to deny your feelings.  Frankly -- and I admit this is a vanity on my part -- but sometimes I think my attitudes are more consistent with the Jesus I was taught about than those who are not so much into that message, as opposed to just being part of the biggest tribe in the neighborhood.

Edited by ArchFan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it's often hard for people to know what it has been like to walk in other peoples' shoes.

 

Consider this:  what would it feel like to live in a society where most of the people who are willing to publicly state an opinion on a given subject would also be inclined to vilify a minority that does not share that opinion.  Even odder, a minority that (admittedly sometimes only in theory) wants to think they are thinking rationally, rather that just buying into whatever belief system dominates around them.

 

I don't say this to be mean or to deny your feelings.  Frankly -- and I admit this is a vanity on my part -- but sometimes I think my attitudes are more consistent with the Jesus I was taught about than those who are not so much into that message, as opposed to just being part of the biggest tribe in the neighborhood.

 

 

No offense intended, but you're the second person today who assumed that post had anything whatsoever to do with religion. I never mentioned religion in that post. Neither did the other guy I was replying to. I was, and am, talking about how being "anti" something, be it against broccoli, the evil weed (as the other guy mentioned) or even religion, seems to be a rather poor way to create a lasting group. There's no positive vibe going on. The only thing they have in common is that they are against something. It's strictly negative. Should that thing they are against go away (for example, an anti-Bucee's group opposed to the construction of another gas station), where does that leave the group?

 

So thank you, I suppose, for your points. But they have little to do with what I was talking about.

 

Edited by Firebird65

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I think one of the main things that atheism has going against it is a lack of distinction between atheism and antitheism, and believe it or not, that really tends to divide an already somewhat small group. A small test to determine is if you think God simply doesn't exist and don't care what others think, or do you try to mock and belittle those that do while trying to trot out proof that God doesn't exist? Antitheism would be the latter one, while atheism tends to be the former, though both go under the atheism label.

I also believe that an "Atheist Club" is rather negative-sounding because it IS negative. Think about the abortion issue: both sides like to think that they're "pro" something, whether it be "pro-choice" or "pro-life". While you may roll your eyes at at least one of these labels, they at least choose to make a positive image either way. No one brands themself as "anti-life" or "anti-choice", they choose the positive.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I think one of the main things that atheism has going against it is a lack of distinction between atheism and antitheism, and believe it or not, that really tends to divide an already somewhat small group. A small test to determine is if you think God simply doesn't exist and don't care what others think, or do you try to mock and belittle those that do while trying to trot out proof that God doesn't exist? Antitheism would be the latter one, while atheism tends to be the former, though both go under the atheism label.

I also believe that an "Atheist Club" is rather negative-sounding because it IS negative. Think about the abortion issue: both sides like to think that they're "pro" something, whether it be "pro-choice" or "pro-life". While you may roll your eyes at at least one of these labels, they at least choose to make a positive image either way. No one brands themself as "anti-life" or "anti-choice", they choose the positive.

IronTiger hits on a big point.  I've seen both sides of the "atheist" coin, and the anti-theists are the folks who (perhaps unknowingly, though I find that doubtful) are making it tough for those who simply do not believe.  Then again, if I were continuously questioned because of my beliefs (or lack thereof) I would probably start to be more openly...how to say it... belligerent?

 

Perhaps a group needs to be formed with the moniker "American Rationalists" or "Houston Rationalists" ?  Maybe that would make "the pill" easier for others to swallow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I grew up in an atheist household but consider myself agnostic (not ruling anything out). My wife is atheist. We attend a UU church in the Woodlands and have also attended the UU church that's in the Museum district. Short for "Unitarian Universalists", think of it as a spinoff from the "Trinitarian" Protestant tradition but has evolved to include atheists, agnostics, humanists, pagan, heck pretty much anything! Very church-like but without creeds. Very family-friendly environment while at the same time open to all types of people, especially the LGBT community. I would be happy to answer any questions about UU or the specific churches in question.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I grew up in an atheist household but consider myself agnostic (not ruling anything out). My wife is atheist. We attend a UU church in the Woodlands and have also attended the UU church that's in the Museum district. Short for "Unitarian Universalists", think of it as a spinoff from the "Trinitarian" Protestant tradition but has evolved to include atheists, agnostics, humanists, pagan, heck pretty much anything! Very church-like but without creeds. Very family-friendly environment while at the same time open to all types of people, especially the LGBT community. I would be happy to answer any questions about UU or the specific churches in question.

 

How does the UU church view atheists?  Any particular tenets or guiding principles defining the church?  How do they rationalize the space between atheism and the realm of mainstream Christian beliefs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One common slogan associated to UU is "Deeds not Creeds". Having said that, UU defines seven Principles and six "sources". The principles are:

  • The inherent worth and dignity of every person
  • Justice, equity and compassion in human relations
  • Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations
  • A free and responsible search for truth and meaning
  • The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large
  • The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all
  • Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
 

The "sources" include: direct experience of that "transcending mystery and wonder"; words and deeds of prophetic people; wisdom from the world's religions; Jewish and Christian teachings; humanist teachings (heed the guidance of reason and the results of science); and spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions.

 

Yes, I copied this from the UUA.ORG website. They also have a page specific to Atheists: http://www.uua.org/beliefs/welcome/atheism/index.shtml

 

Specific to the church my family goes to, it really is supportive of all faiths (or those with lack of faith I suppose!). Occasionally some sermons will touch on aspects of the Bible but almost always with some sort of "disclaimer" and only as a means of relating a story to how people should treat one another. That is, there's none of the "do these things or you go to Hell" type of sermons you would hear at a Christian church. Probably the best part of our church is the music...there are many talented people in the congregation and they sing and play all kinds of music. It's not uncommon to hear a Green Day song ("Good Riddance"), or even the XTC "Dear God" song!

 

Anyways, just sharing what I know and not trying to "convert" anybody here. :-)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The title of this thread really grabbed me and I  just had to come and see just what it's about and reading through the posts here, I admit  I still don't understand but I learnt a few new things...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...