Pumapayam Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Back in March 2006, I had my entire outside wall redone and a sizable amount of reframing as well. The stucco installed looked beautiful, until a few months later. Hair line cracks formed vertically and horizontally in between the expansion joints. The problem was resolved in the form of the contractor coming back to touch up the cracks. I assumed the cracking was normal since the stucco is essentially concrete and it shrinks and expands with temperature, but I thought that is what the expansion joint were for, to prevent the cracking. Fast forward to December 2006 and twice the amount of cracks show up, some from the same spots aas the previous incident. These hairline cracks are numerous. Now the contractor is more hesitant to come back an fix it, even though it is still under warranty. Finally last night we decided to get a home inspector to look at the house and let him decide if it is either one of tow things. This is scheduled for next week. My responsibility - I have one crack in my slab, but it is the same crack and has not shifted since I bought in February 2003 . I can sense this since the sheetrock along the crack slab area has not itself cracked, yet the outside stucco cracks, so I am doubting the slab is the culprit. Especially if more cracks are along the entire wall of the house several yards away. If the roof was letting water in, but I had the entire roof replaced in September 2006 . It was only for leaks on the opposite side of the house, no where near the stucco in question. His responsibility - The framing of the house, all the framing that was considered in poor condition was replaced without any hesitation as the stucco job was being complete. The stucco quality and the lathe installation. Maybe it did not cure long enough, maybe the layer is not thick enough. The lathe may no be attached properly. From what I read online, diagonal cracks usually point to foundation issues, and horizontal and vertical cracks point to poor lathe installation. I have the latter. Please suggest what could be the issue and experience you may have had with this. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Stucco in Houston?Isn't that a big no-no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 It is super hard to find a good stucco firm here in this city. I am sorry for your problems Puma, but I would call out the company again, and say, "WTF !" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 synthetic stucco has been a problem for many people. there are complaints/lawsuits going on all over the country. scroll down to stucco part. IMO what makes the product bad is that it doesn't allow your home to breathe. so when moisture is introduced thru a crack, the moisture trapped causes the studs to mold and even rot!. because we're in houston, your house will shift (but it may not be noticeable) due to moisture levels. because the product is hard, cracks will result. There are some townhomes built in mid 90's in the montrose area that use stucco and all the units had to be treated for mold and all the stucco had to be replaced in 2003. that's not a good record. Look at the apartments in estates at memorial heights i think. a coworker lived there and when i was in the parking garage walking to his building, it was surprising at the number of cracks in the stucco for such a new building. I know someone here that is a distributor for one of the manufacturers in houston and also builds custom homes. he uses it because it is the cheapest product for external walls. maybe it is a good product when the climate is dry, but in areas that are more moist, it should be avoided IMO. oh i forgot, his first home had mold problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 Stucco in Houston?Isn't that a big no-no? Yes, but that is what home owners associations are for right. All the other homes are stucco in the neighborhood. I wanted to try harding siding that looks like stucco, but it was ruled out, so I replace the old stucco with new stucco. The irony is that the old stucco NEVER cracked where the new stucco is currently cracking. It is super hard to find a good stucco firm here in this city. I am sorry for your problems Puma, but I would call out the company again, and say, "WTF !" Well, the deal is this. He will come and fix it free of charge since it is still under warranty, but if it ever cracks again he is not responsible for anymore future issues. He wants me to sign a release form. or Have the inspector come out and get down to the bottom of this. I have chosen the inspector, whether of not it was right, I don't know yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I've heard good stuff about Hardee Stucco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 synthetic stucco has been a problem for many people. there are complaints/lawsuits going on all over the country. scroll down to stucco part. IMO what makes the product bad is that it doesn't allow your home to breathe. so when moisture is introduced thru a crack, the moisture trapped causes the studs to mold and even rot!. because we're in houston, your house will shift (but it may not be noticeable) due to moisture levels. because the product is hard, cracks will result. This is not the sythetic version though, I have the real concrete one, so am I better off or worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 This is not the sythetic version though, I have the real concrete one, so am I better off or worse? whatever you put it on must be stable otherwise i'd say cracks will occur. i'd say signing a waiver sounds risky. if they can't get it right, then i'd ask for some of your money back. may i ask how much you paid? i think they want to wimp out personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 whatever you put it on must be stable otherwise i'd say cracks will occur. i'd say signing a waiver sounds risky. if they can't get it right, then i'd ask for some of your money back. may i ask how much you paid? i think they want to wimp out personally.$23K total (mind you I only spend $110K on the Galleria area 2,500 sq ft townhome/money pit, so I still think it was justified)$17K for the stucco, and the remaining fund was to replace all the termite/water rot damage framing members.I am planning on using a home inspector by the name of Bob Lovelace, I think he has a Saturday weekend a.m. radio talk/q&a show.Anyone heard of him/use him before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 $23K total (mind you I only spend $110K on the Galleria area 2,500 sq ft townhome/money pit, so I still think it was justified)$17K for the stucco, and the remaining fund was to replace all the termite/water rot damage framing members.D--m! i was thinking that if something goes wrong, small claims might be an option but at 17k for the stucco that's not an option. So why were the framing members rotting? was it caused by cracks in the stucco? for 23k, you could have easily put on siding that would have eliminated the leaking walls.in some of the stucco i thought they put fiberglass in it to give it more strength. you know if the company did something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwrm4 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Stucco and concrete have the same problem in Houston, and that is unskilled/lazy applicators and a lack of quality control by the city.The "wetter" concrete is, the easier it is to form. However, the wetter concrete is, the more it will shrink when it dries, thus causing cracks.You often see guys spreading concete asking the truck driver to "hit" the mixture with water, which makes it easier to spread. However, that makes the concrete more suspectible to cracks. In cities with real building codes, you have to perform a "slump" test on the concrete as it is poured. Essentially, you fill up a conical tube with the wet concrete, place it on a plate, and then pull the tube off. The base is only allowed to "slump" out - i.e. increase the diameter - so much. I've never seen that done in Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 D--m! i was thinking that if something goes wrong, small claims might be an option but at 17k for the stucco that's not an option. So why were the framing members rotting? was it caused by cracks in the stucco? for 23k, you could have easily put on siding that would have eliminated the leaking walls.in some of the stucco i thought they put fiberglass in it to give it more strength. you know if the company did something like that?Nope, no fiberglass, 100% traditional materials.The townhouse was neglected and was used as a rental property before I purchased it. It was on the market orginally for $135K. The roof was leaky and the stucco had cracks so huge you could stick a small kitten in them.Hence, along with the tricky foundation, I got it on the cheap, but it has been a chore bringing it back to its full glory.The "wetter" concrete is, the easier it is to form. However, the wetter concrete is, the more it will shrink when it dries, thus causing cracks.I was never around to really pay attention to that part of the installation, I did see the application, but I never witnessed the mixing part, so I can't comment if that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 I spoke with the inspector, going to split the $300 cost with my general contractor and he is going to do the structural analysis this Thursday and he will decide what the root cost it. From the conversation, he think it is the mixing of the old wood with the new wood frames and normal settling that the home goes though, especially after the wet winter we had. Hopefully that means that my framing has finally settled and that the GC will fix it one last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Puma, that sucks! I hope you get it resolved soon, it sounds like a big hassle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippedoff Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Try the forum www.badstucco.com.Post what you did here on their forum and see if they can lead you in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Puma, I feel for you because I fell into the same trap in the 70's. I bought two properties in Montrose: both on slabs; one with synthetic stucco and one with natural stucco. They both performed the same: cracked slabs because of our gumbo soil and deteriorating stucco because of our sub-tropic climate. I now live in a house built in 1918 on pier and beam that is as level as you could wish for; a slate roof that has withstood god knows how many hurricanes and has wood siding that has out lasted any stucco. You just may have to cut your losses; bite the bullet and try to move on. Houston is not the place for concrete foundations and stucco siding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I have Brick 3 sides, Hardie plank on the back, and vinyl siding for the Atrium. Atrium had a major renovation back in the 90's because of the dampness, woodrot infiltrated all the framing in that area and had to be replaced before the siding was installed. It works awesome. This house has been built well, (knock on wood), I have no cracks in the foundation after 27 years, just hope I continue to be lucky.Puma, I wouldn't sign a damn thing saying, "this will be the last time they come out for any repairs", that is why you have a contract and a warranty up until whenever your warranty is. If they won't back their work, then they need to refund your money. I know you spent a buttload, but small claims may be the answer, and get a $5,000 settlement in order to pay some good stucco workers to come and repair the problems. Have you taken pictures ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Puma, I feel for you because I fell into the same trap in the 70's. I bought two properties in Montrose: both on slabs; one with synthetic stucco and one with natural stucco. They both performed the same: cracked slabs because of our gumbo soil and deteriorating stucco because of our sub-tropic climate. I now live in a house built in 1918 on pier and beam that is as level as you could wish for; a slate roof that has withstood god knows how many hurricanes and has wood siding that has out lasted any stucco. You just may have to cut your losses; bite the bullet and try to move on. Houston is not the place for concrete foundations and stucco siding.whoa, for once i can't disagree. margaritas on me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Try the forum www.badstucco.com.Post what you did here on their forum and see if they can lead you in the right direction. Wow!, who knew, I will post some photos too, I am just weary about joining a forum that I will never participate in beyond that. But I will check it out. You just may have to cut your losses; bite the bullet and try to move on. Houston is not the place for concrete foundations and stucco siding. Then way do they keep on being them , is it just cheaper to build? Have you taken pictures ? I have a handfull, the camera is in the car, I will post some after lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Then way do they keep on being them , is it just cheaper to build? yes it is a cost issue. putting brick, siding, etc costs them more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Puma, I feel for you because I fell into the same trap in the 70's. I bought two properties in Montrose: both on slabs; one with synthetic stucco and one with natural stucco. They both performed the same: cracked slabs because of our gumbo soil and deteriorating stucco because of our sub-tropic climate. I now live in a house built in 1918 on pier and beam that is as level as you could wish for; a slate roof that has withstood god knows how many hurricanes and has wood siding that has out lasted any stucco. You just may have to cut your losses; bite the bullet and try to move on. Houston is not the place for concrete foundations and stucco siding.I've seen several very old stucco buildings in the Midtown/Montrose areas which appear to be in great shape, with no visible signs of repair (e.g., Spanish-style apartment complexes on Fairview, that French Mediterranean house on Hyde Park, the Carlton on Winbern, the former Depelchin Faith Home on Albany, Felix's Restaurant on Westheimer, small apartment house in 600 block of W. Alabama, etc.). I'm not doubting that there's been many problems with stucco in Houston, yet it seems that at one time at least a few people were able to get it right. Is it some sort of lost art?New Orleans has a climate similar to Houston's, and the French Quarter has many stucco buildings which are nearly 200 years old. Granted, many have been cleverly maintained and refurbished, yet the majority withstood decades of neglect without failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I've seen several very old stucco buildings in the Midtown/Montrose areas which appear to be in great shape, with no visible signs of repair (e.g., Spanish-style apartment complexes on Fairview, that French Mediterranean house on Hyde Park, the Carlton on Winbern, the former Depelchin Faith Home on Albany, Felix's Restaurant on Westheimer, small apartment house in 600 block of W. Alabama, etc.). I'm not doubting that there's been many problems with stucco in Houston, yet it seems that at one time at least a few people were able to get it right. Is it some sort of lost art?New Orleans has a climate similar to Houston's, and the French Quarter has many stucco buildings which are nearly 200 years old. Granted, many have been cleverly maintained and refurbished, yet the majority withstood decades of neglect without failing.things just aren't built as well today as they once were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 I'm not doubting that there's been many problems with stucco in Houston, yet it seems that at one time at least a few people were able to get it right. Is it some sort of lost art? Most cheap/suburbab-esque homes are hardi now with a brick front facade. It is rare to see stucco now a days, except in some higher priced communities when they want a mediterranean look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I'm not doubting that there's been many problems with stucco in Houston, yet it seems that at one time at least a few people were able to get it right. Is it some sort of lost art?Yes Tex, that is what I believe anyway, it is a lost art. Getting the mixture right and the thickness is paramount in this type of construction. When people think there is a quicker , easier, and cheaper way, the people they are working for become the victims of their laziness. I've seen my Aunt's stucco house, which was built in the 60's, not have any problems as far as cracking, and it is in South Houston. I am not aware of any cracks whatsoever, I will ask her, but I think over time, the techniques and materials being used are contributing to the poor workmanship seen in today's modern stucco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 It is rare to see stucco now a days, except in some higher priced communities when they want a mediterranean look.go to midtown, eastside, 3rd ward, it's used quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest danax Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 go to midtown, eastside, 3rd ward, it's used quite a bit. The "fake stucco"/EIFS has become a fairly popular remodel to old pier and beam wood-sided houses in the East End communities (my next door neighbor, for example, and he used his next door neighbor to do it) and I seriously doubt whether any research was done prior to the application as to the wisdom of it. I tried to intervene in my neighbor's case but he wouldn't listen. It was all about fast work and fast results. The cracks/moisture/mold/rot cycle works slowly, however. Bulldozing is fast though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Then way do they keep on being them , is it just cheaper to build? It's cheaper to build and many potential buyers are sucked into the wow factor because initially it looks so good. By the time it begins to crack, sweat and/or mold the contractors are long gone. IMO it IS a lost art. The buildings from the first part of the 20th century were built by experienced and knowledgeable craftsmen-Isabella Court is one fine example-but now-a-days they throw up cheaply built "stucco" clad McMansions all over town because they can sell them. They are no where to be found when the consequences of their shoddy construction comes to light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 The "fake stucco"/EIFS has become a fairly popular remodel That is the stuff they use when they reface strip centers right? You can punch through that stuff with your fist if you hit it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest danax Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 That is the stuff they use when they reface strip centers right?You can punch through that stuff with your fist if you hit it right. I think it's about the same, residential they use foam board under the stucco and commercial I'm not sure but the front columns on the CVS by my house is damaged and the underlying foam is exposed and it's considerably thicker than the residential, on the column anyway. It seems to be about the same process used to construct those fake rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumapayam Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 recent article in the HBJ about Houston's love for stucco and that brick is making a comeback.Judging a book by its cover -- brick or stucco?Houston Business Journal - February 23, 2007by Nicole BradfordHouston Business Journal Craig Hartley/HBJMike Spear, Prudential Gary Greene Realtors: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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