The Bubble Has Burst

[h2obuff]

the farther out you buy, the weaker the market. esp for resale.

Not even close to being true. Broad generalizations like this are useless!

It really is on an area, by area basis. I live on the far NW side, and homes are in high demand in my particular area, with $/sqft as high as ever and average listing times of less than 60 days. For a suburban market, that is very good! There are other areas similar to this all around town!

[h2obuff]

From a housing cost standpoint, Houston to SF is not a good direction to be going. If I was offered a job in SF, it would have to be an insanely huge pay increase (4x or 5x more) for me to even think about it.

You guys are missing a huge component of this equation that truly affects the bottom line

[TheNiche]

You guys are missing a huge component of this equation that truly affects the bottom line

[mpbro]

You guys are missing a huge component of this equation that truly affects the bottom line

[Houston19514]

I have friends out there who have bought recently and they said the tax rate in Santa Clara County is 1.25%. There are probably old Prop 13 caps in effect for people who purchased before 1978.

CA state income taxes more than offset the lower property tax rates. I believe the highest brackets are 10-12%! In terms of financial solvency, we're taking a definite step down by moving to CA. But for us, at least, the improved "quality of life" is worth it. On "quality of life", your mileage may vary!

I am curious... What does San Mateo County (or the general area) offer that will give you an improved quality of life compared to Houston?

[mpbro]

I am curious... What does San Mateo County (or the general area) offer that will give you an improved quality of life compared to Houston?

My wife and I like to spend our free time outside. The Bay Area has:

1) Better weather

2) A nice coastline less than an hour away

3) Fantastic dayhikes in the coast ranges, less than an hour away

4) Monterey/Carmel/Big Sur 1.5 hours away

5) Wine country 1.5 hours away

6) Skiing 4 hours away

7) Some of the US's best backpacking/climbing/whatever in the high Sierra, 4 hours away

8) San Francisco 30 minutes away

We found that in order to get an equivalent outside fix in Houston, we had to fly somewhere else! With a finite amount of vacation, and now a baby, this has become impractical.

If you don't care about outdoor stuff, or are satisfied with different outdoor stuff, Houston's fine. To be fair, there are people in the Bay Area who never go to the mountains or San Francisco. They probably would be happier in Houston. Anyway, "quality of life" is a pretty subjective quantity, so I always laugh when magazines attempt to quantify it.

OK, now that I've given my definition of "quality of life", what's yours?

Edited January 2, 2007 by mpbro

[Houston19514]

My wife and I like to spend our free time outside. The Bay Area has:

1) Better weather

2) A nice coastline less than an hour away

3) Fantastic dayhikes in the coast ranges, less than an hour away

4) Monterey/Carmel/Big Sur 1.5 hours away

5) Wine country 1.5 hours away

6) Skiing 4 hours away

7) Some of the US's best backpacking/climbing/whatever in the high Sierra, 4 hours away

8) San Francisco 30 minutes away

We found that in order to get an equivalent outside fix in Houston, we had to fly somewhere else! With a finite amount of vacation, and now a baby, this has become impractical.

If you don't care about outdoor stuff, or are satisfied with different outdoor stuff, Houston's fine. To be fair, there are people in the Bay Area who never go to the mountains or San Francisco. They probably would be happier in Houston. Anyway, "quality of life" is a pretty subjective quantity, so I always laugh when magazines attempt to quantify it.

OK, now that I've given my definition of "quality of life", what's yours?

For the moment, let's just say it does not involve hiking or backpacking ;-)

Thanks for the thoughtful and honest response. I am considering a possible relocation myself, but mine would be to Houston. I asked the question of you in part because in the process I want to be careful that I am not misperceiving the quality of life in Houston.

My definition of qualify of life revolves more around having access to a multitude of great restaurants, theater, art, museums, variety of sporting events etc., all at a reasonable cost. (In my perfect world, there would also be skiing available within a few hours' drive, but we can't have everything, I guess)

[mpbro]

For the moment, let's just say it does not involve hiking or backpacking ;-)

Thanks for the thoughtful and honest response. I am considering a possible relocation myself, but mine would be to Houston. I asked the question of you in part because in the process I want to be careful that I am not misperceiving the quality of life in Houston.

My definition of qualify of life revolves more around having access to a multitude of great restaurants, theater, art, museums, variety of sporting events etc., all at a reasonable cost. (In my perfect world, there would also be skiing available within a few hours' drive, but we can't have everything, I guess)

I've not been overly impressed with the food here. Even high-end restaurants seem to operate under the "bigger is always better" philosophy. Obviously, there are many exceptions, and generalizations can always be picked at. But as a general rule, I have to look harder before I find restaurants that I like...of course, YMMV!

Houston is fantastic in the arts. Lots of theater options, lots of excellent museums. Much better than SF. I'll miss the Menil.

One myth I would like to dispel: that Houston's cost of living is appreciably cheaper in anything except housing. I've honestly not noticeda huge difference in food prices between Houston and other big American cities (maybe ignoring NY). And food's a big deal, since there isn't much else to do but eat out!

Regarding weather, it's not that Houston is so terrible in an objective sense--it's that SF is so nice! Compared to much of the rest of the US, Houston's weather (IMO) is better. I'll take Houston's 93, humid, and cloudy over Dallas's 99, "dry", and cloudless. Or, for that matter, -20 in Chicago with snow over Houston's 40 with no snow.

People seem to be nicer in Houston than SF (IMO). SF's entrenched left-wing politics gets on my nerves, as well.

Anyway, good luck with the move.

[mkultra25]

I've not been overly impressed with the food here. Even high-end restaurants seem to operate under the "bigger is always better" philosophy. Obviously, there are many exceptions, and generalizations can always be picked at. But as a general rule, I have to look harder before I find restaurants that I like...of course, YMMV!

I think you'll find that to be a minority viewpoint. I can think of several friends with disparate tastes who have lived all over the world, and they're of the opinion that Houston is one of the world's great restaurant cities. It's not usually thought of in such terms by people who haven't lived here a long time, however. If a restaurant is going to survive in Houston for any length of time, it generally has to do so on its merits, which means repeat business from locals, as we're pretty far removed from being a tourist destination despite the best efforts of the Convention and Visitors' Bureau.

[Subdude]

I think you'll find that to be a minority viewpoint. I can think of several friends with disparate tastes who have lived all over the world, and they're of the opinion that Houston is one of the world's great restaurant cities. It's not usually thought of in such terms by people who haven't lived here a long time, however. If a restaurant is going to survive in Houston for any length of time, it generally has to do so on its merits, which means repeat business from locals, as we're pretty far removed from being a tourist destination despite the best efforts of the Convention and Visitors' Bureau.

Agree, agree, agree. Houston is I think one of the best restaurant cities I've been to by a long stretch, considering variety, price, service, and quality. I had friends who moved here from LA that thought the restaurant scene here was way better than in LA, and that's saying a lot.

[houstonmacbro]

While H'town is definitely NOT Shan-gri-la, I will agree our restaurants and choices for food are above the norm. I lived in Baltimore, famed for its restaurants, and I will honestly say (fair comparison) that Houston beats them and DC for sheer volume and quality of affordable restaurants.

[SpringTX]

I'm trying to stay out of the quality-of-life debate. I think it deserves a new thread of its own. But for the record, I'll take Houston's quality-of-life over California's any day. For example, I live in The Woodlands, and I don't have any trouble finding outdoor activities. The Woodlands has 150 miles of bike trails, a lake with canoeing and kayaking, and we're a short drive from national forests farther to the north. Hill country is only several hours away. And don't rag on the Texas Gulf Coast. The water in northern California is un-swimmable 365 days a year because it never gets above 69 degrees. The water in the Texas Gulf stays over 80 degrees for months. And you can't deny the lush, semi-tropical climate here. And are the people here friendlier? That should be #1 factor anywhere, in my opinion.

If you're headed to California, you missed the boat, in my opinion. California was the "cool" place to go back in the 1970's - now it's overcrowded, losing businesses, financially bankrupt, etc. Washington state was a cool place to go in the 1990's. Now Houston might be the next cool place to go.

Edited January 2, 2007 by SpringTX

[houstonmacbro]

Yeah, Houston is growing by leaps and bounds. It seems that everyone wants to move here ... so I wonder does that mean that other places (North and East) will be cheaper seeing that they are losing population to places like Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta, and Miami (technically not a good move with global warming and rising sea-levels imminent, but that is another thread ... oops).

[TheNiche]

One myth I would like to dispel: that Houston's cost of living is appreciably cheaper in anything except housing. I've honestly not noticeda huge difference in food prices between Houston and other big American cities (maybe ignoring NY). And food's a big deal, since there isn't much else to do but eat out!

According to the 3Q 2006 ACCRA Cost of Living Index, Houston is 11.9% below the average cost of living in 289 U.S. urban areas. We enjoy low costs of living in terms of housing (25% below avg.) and grocery items (19% below avg.). In comparison:

Dallas is 8.1% below.

Atlanta is 1.8% below.

Phoenix is 1.8% above.

Washington D.C. is 33.0% above.

Boston is 39.5% above.

New York is 48.2% above.

San Francisco is 57.0% above.

When compared only to the metro areas with a population greater than 2 million people, Houston's cost of living is 22% below the average, and housing costs are 42% below average.

The only drawback to the ACCRA study is that it only measures differences in living costs for professionals and managerial households in the top income quintile. Still, that's a very telling indicator.