Sprawl

[SpringTX]

(posted by Trae)

My God, that's disgusting!! More banal crap even further from the core of the city. I might understand a decision to live in such mediocrity if one works in that area (within 2-3 miles from home). But, otherwise, why perpetuate this type of sickening sprawl??

I'm sure the type of person that will actually want to live in this will drive their "SUV" (please say with a strong southern drawl to get maximum effect) spitting "chewin 'backy" out of the window as they suck gallon upon gallon of fuel and spew ozone-causing pollutants into the beautiful 290 corridor! I'm gonna go throw up...

[Pumapayam]

Waste

[westguy]

Two of those have really mismatched garage doors.

[UrbaNerd]

Where are these located, and who is the builder? El Puko!

[PureAuteur]

I want to know where these homes are so I can avoid the area. That one on the lower left corner is really ugly.

[desirous]

Sprawl wouldn't be such a big deal if we aren't burning a limited resource to get around in it. If people want to live with traffic congestion, then so be it. We just need cars to be powered by something non-polluting... a tall order, eh?

[sevfiv]

i am dragging this over here - a good post capable of further discussion (even though it was parsed to death in the other thread )

The biggest problem with this country is overpopulation. It's unfortunate that Houston, where I live, is still growing at a fast pace, while it was already the 4th largest city in the U.S. If Bridgeland considered itself a neighborhood in Waller, TX, I wouldn't complain, but since its identity is that of an outer Houston suburb, it makes me cringe to think of all the people who reside along the 290 corridor now. That area was meant to be farmland. I'm sure all the residents of Hockley and Waller love how our city is creeping in on their peaceful towns. If things don't reverse in the next decade, pollution levels will be sky high and it will be easier to commute to Austin than to downtown Houston. Hopefully I'll be in another city or tucked inside loop 610 where I don't have to think about all the parasitic growth around what was once a truly great city. Bridgeland is one of the most over-hyped, marketed, corporate projects I have seen in Houston. There is nothing original or inspired about it, and there is no reason to want to move there other than to live in a new development. I hope nobody moves there. I mean come on, there are plenty of homes for sale inside the Beltway along 290. Just go find one and fix it up. It's so sad how intellectually stagnant our country is. Stop the economic growth, control the population, and keep cities at a moderate, functional size. The only homes that should exist around Grand Parkway are rural houses spaced 1/4 miles apart from each other on private land.

i admittedly don't get out to these sprawling areas too often, so the pictures and descriptions provided are alot of what i have to go on.

maybe we can make a running list of why folks might think these areas are appealing (versus actually living in a semi-rural area, or in the "big city") - not that these things are necessarily real or true, but maybe just perceptions...i'll throw out a few:

safety?

having something brand new?

lower home value?

...

Edited December 20, 2006 by sevfiv

[feufoma]

i am dragging this over here - a good post capable of further discussion (even though it was parsed to death in the other thread )

i admittedly don't get out to these sprawling areas too often, so the pictures and descriptions provided are alot of what i have to go on.

maybe we can make a running list of why folks might think these areas are appealing (versus actually living in a semi-rural area, or in the "big city") - not that these things are necessarily real or true, but maybe just perceptions...i'll throw out a few:

safety?

having something brand new?

lower home value?

...

Another big reason (if not the biggest): having children and the fact that public schools are generally better in suburbia than in the central city. Taxes are sometimes lower in suburbia.

[MidtownCoog]

maybe we can make a running list of why folks might think these areas are appealing

Good idea. And while were at it we might as well make a list of why people feel the need to live downtown.

1) Perceived hipnees

2) Being close to museums

3) Being closer to work? (maybe. I lived in Midtown and worked in The Woodlands).

[TheNiche]

3) Being closer to work? (maybe. I lived in Midtown and worked in The Woodlands).

There is a measured statistically significant and substantial correlation between urban office employment and urban apartment absorption.

[Montrose1100]

Over Population?

This is retarded, and belongs in SkyScraperCity.

All of Earth's +6 Billion population could fit in the Texas State Border... Of corse, it would all look like Downtown Hong Kong.

[Guest danax]

.........maybe we can make a running list of why folks might think these areas are appealing (versus actually living in a semi-rural area, or in the "big city") - not that these things are necessarily real or true, but maybe just perceptions...i'll throw out a few:

safety?

having something brand new?

lower home value?

...

Let's add;

1) Island kitchens. (more consumerism with all of the TV shows and magazines out there tantalizing folks with the latest and greatest amenities).

2) Status. American home buying for the masses seems to be about buying the biggest thing you can get away with with the most bells and whistles, all ready to go right now, regardless of the debt burden.

3) Schools (big reason)

4) No desire to work on an old house. Old house restorers/lovers are a small niche market. An old house offers no instant gratification, but rather fuels imagination and creativity, which seems to be dormant in most.

I sound smug but, in all fairness, if you were to eliminate the school reason, townhouse buyers inside the loop are buying for the same reasons.

[SpringTX]

Sprawl is the most natural drive known to mankind since our earliest nomadic ancestors.

We've all been to pet stores before and seen cats and dogs living in cages. How do they look? What is quality of their coats like? How about their behavior? When they live for a while in a confined space, without contact with other animals and a natural environment (fresh air, trees, etc.), is anyone surprised that they start to show more and more signs of bad health, mentally and physically? How about animals in zoos? Some of them can't even reproduce when paired with potential mates. For humans, is there any wonder that high population densities are associated with higher rates of crime per capita? Higher rates of illness? Higher rates of every social ill?

You can mathematically arrange for 6 billion people to live in Texas. But you can't re-program the DNA in our bodies to make us happy, healthy, or productive in an arrangement like that.

I'll pose this question to every inner-looper on this board: if you had the ability to "teleport" (like Star Trek) to work every day from anywhere in the world, would you still live inside the loop?

[sevfiv]

I'll pose this question to every inner-looper on this board: if you had the ability to "teleport" (like Star Trek) to work every day from anywhere in the world, would you still live inside the loop?

yes, because i spend the majority of my free time in a relative radius around my home. although being in walking distance to rail is nice, it would be better if there were more routes of course (although the bus options are there). i also know that in my car, i can get to almost anywhere i frequent in a couple minutes, sans freeway.

works for me.

[DaTrain]

**looks at pics of those four sh**ty-ass houses** I had to wake up this morning the see this. I'm not even gon think about eating breakfast after seeing the urbanization that makes Houston look nasty from above.

[Pumapayam]

All of Earth's +6 Billion population could fit in the Texas State Border... Of corse, it would all look like Downtown Hong Kong.

Could you imagine the look of the sewage system, yuck!

[MidtownCoog]

There is a measured statistically significant and substantial correlation between urban office employment and urban apartment absorption.

I'd never live in an apartment. Yuck. I did it once in Big D and that was enough for me.

yes, because i spend the majority of my free time in a relative radius around my home.

Ane here is where it gets funny. You see many uber-urbans poo-poo the burbs becuase "those people never leave their burbs".

I think the opposite is true.

As far as those houses go, they are pretty fugly.

[wakester]

Please, like you could not drive around "inner Houston" and find 4 houses where the owner has "interesting" taste in color and combinations.

[MidtownCoog]

Please, like you could not drive around "inner Houston" and find 4 houses where the owner has "interesting" taste in color and combinations.

Wake, they can't due to their rose-colored lenses. Even the crack-houses are hip since they are so urban.

[feufoma]

Let's add;

1) Island kitchens. (more consumerism with all of the TV shows and magazines out there tantalizing folks with the latest and greatest amenities).

2) Status. American home buying for the masses seems to be about buying the biggest thing you can get away with with the most bells and whistles, all ready to go right now, regardless of the debt burden.

3) Schools (big reason)

4) No desire to work on an old house. Old house restorers/lovers are a small niche market. An old house offers no instant gratification, but rather fuels imagination and creativity, which seems to be dormant in most.

I sound smug but, in all fairness, if you were to eliminate the school reason, townhouse buyers inside the loop are buying for the same reasons.

That is probably true. A big draw for me though is my "commute". It's 10 minutes, tops. My wife walks to work DT most of the time (5 minutes). Our child's school will be 10 minutes. A big house isn't a major draw for us (more to clean and maintain). Status is for posers anyway.

[DaTrain]

Wake, they can't due to their rose-colored lenses. Even the crack-houses are hip since they are so urban.

At least Houston is one of the last few cities to have shotgun houses; just renovate them like Project Row.

Now THIS is much easier on the eyes unlike the other kind

Edited December 21, 2006 by DaTrain

[WesternGulf]

Every southern city still has a large collection of shotguns. New Orleans and Louisville have the most elaborate for whatever reasons, but average ones still exist in Atlanta, Jacksonville, Mobile, Charleston, Savannah and all along the southern coast. They are usually known as West Indian cottages. The ones in Sixth Ward are being renovated full swing:

Edited December 21, 2006 by WesternGulf

[TheNiche]

At least Houston is one of the last few cities to have shotgun houses; just renovate them like Project Row.

Now THIS is much easier on the eyes unlike the other kind

Umm, no, I'd have to disagree with you. They're all ugly.

[KinkaidAlum]

I don't find the shotgun houses at Project Row ugly at all. Maybe that is because I know what they house (a transitional mother's program, education and artisitic outreach surfaces, and a living history of the way things used to be. Overall, it is a beautiful project.

Now, as for Midtown's comment about Inner Loopers never leaving their space, I have to ask why would they? If you live in the Inner Loop, why would you need to visit Katy, Pearland, SugarLand, or Kingwood? There's absolutely no reason. I left off the Woodlands because they land some decent concerts at the Mitchell.

[MidtownCoog]

Now, as for Midtown's comment about Inner Loopers never leaving their space, I have to ask why would they?

That's true, but living in Midtown I was all over this city. Mainly Galveston, Kemah and Clear Lake. Katy, Sugar Land and Kingwood, never.

But that's not my point. People in the burbs do have to leave the burbs. Although like I said many uberloopers think they never do.

[TheNiche]

I don't find the shotgun houses at Project Row ugly at all. Maybe that is because I know what they house (a transitional mother's program, education and artisitic outreach surfaces, and a living history of the way things used to be. Overall, it is a beautiful project.

What's inside of them is irrelevant to my assertion that they (the houses) are ugly.

[sevfiv]

i don't mind the houses, either.

from john biggers to the recently created RHCDC (http://www.rowhousecdc.org/) i think it is an interesting, useful, and beneficial tie to the 1930s

here's the history of project row houses, too:

http://www.projectrowhouses.org/history.htm

[CDeb]

I find it ironic that people here are making comments about "status" being important to people living in the suburbs yet this thread is full of some of the most elitist, snobby comments about suburbanites.

Get over yourselves, people. Not everyone can afford a house inside the loop and not everyone wants to live in "affordable" areas (ghettos) that are close in. You need suburbs just as much as the suburbanites need the city. Many people (more than you believe) want affordable houses (not huge houses) in safe, clean neighborhoods with good schools. If they can't find them in Houston, they'll refuse to live near here. And if employers can't find employees, they look elsewhere. Ask residents of Detroit and Cleveland what happens when all your employers start to leave.

[MidtownCoog]

I find it ironic that people here are making comments about "status" being important to people living in the suburbs yet this thread is full of some of the most elitist, snobby comments about suburbanites.

This has to be the post of the year.

Bravo!

And the snobby comments on this thread are tame to some others from earlier in the year on the very same subject.

[SpringTX]

You need suburbs just as much as the suburbanites need the city. Many people (more than you believe) want affordable houses (not huge houses) in safe, clean neighborhoods with good schools. If they can't find them in Houston, they'll refuse to live near here. And if employers can't find employees, they look elsewhere.

This is a damned good point. If Houston were an island with its borders just outside of the beltway, or if there were a ring of uninhabitable mountains around Houston, just outside of the beltway, would the population density inside the loop double? Heck no. Half the employers would leave, because they could only find half as many workers as they needed. Half the population (predominantly those who have kids) won't settle for high-rise living, renting, small lots, townhouses without yards, fast-paced urban environments, high population densities, "starter" homes costing $700,000, crime, pollution, etc.

If you live inside the loop and don't have kids, ask yourself - would you current housing arrangement suit you if you suddenly had 3 school-aged kids tomorrow? You'd probably need a decent-sized yard for the kids to play in, so high-rises and townhomes would be out. You'd probably need 4 bedrooms, which means you'd need at least 2,000 to 3,000 square feet. You'd want to own, because you'd be there for a while, so renting would be out. You'd want decent public schools. You'd want a safe neighborhood for kids to play in the street and in nearby parks. You would need a neighborhood with other kids in it, so that your kids would have friends to play with. And since you'd be shelling out additional tens of thousands of dollars a year in utilities, food, clothing, ballet lessons, etc., your household budget would be stretched so that your house would need to be affordable as well. Where would you find all that? If you're earning a salary of $300K/year, you can find all those things in River Oaks. But if you're earning considerably less than that, which most of us are, you're going to start looking farther and farther out into the "spawl" until you find it.

Edited December 21, 2006 by SpringTX