Should ALL Houston-area schools adopt Kolter's language program?

[DJ V Lawrence]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4414484.html

This story really caught my eye since I've heard mixed reviews on learning languages other than English here on HAIF. Kolter Elementary School was granted a 3-year, $500,000 grant to add Mandarin Chinese to kindergarden students who at that school already have French, Spanish, Japanese avainable to them. It's a very elaborate and seemingly successful project for kids at Kolter to be bilingual. Personally, I'm impressed by Kolter, but I'm baffled that this is only available to few elementary schools in the Houston area. Houston's a multi-lingual city, yet not that many foriegn languages are available to kids in a way that they could learn fluently. If we can spend money on our stadiums, public safety, and roads, and can grant money to improving school infrastructure and teacher's salaries, what money is guaranteed to kids to learn more than other countries' kids can even though we're supposedly the richest and greatest nation on earth?

From the article.

"We really are the only industrialized nation that routinely graduates students from high school with just one language," Abbott said. "Historically, it hasn't been that important for us, but the world has changed fundamentally."

[Guest Marty]

I think if your child can learn a second language that's a good sign that he/she will be prepared for the new world that we live in.

[Heights2Bastrop]

Kolter Elementary School was granted a 3-year, $500,000 grant to add Mandarin Chinese to kindergarden students who at that school already have French, Spanish, Japanese avainable to them.

What happened to German and Latin?

[pineda]

I know in the Klein ISD, students have a choice of Spanish, French, German and Latin when it comes to Foreign Language. They begin at the middle-school level though, not elementary, except for Latin. That begins at high school level.

They also have something called "Exploratory Language", which is available at the middle-school level. It exposes them to a bunch of different languages, including American Sign Language.

Every year the district puts on a German fest at one of the area high schools, and the entire program is conducted in German, and it's extremely well-attended. They have German food served in the cafeteria and afterwards, everyone goes into the auditorium and watches local students perform skits and dances in German, and the choirs perform German songs. It's a real tribute to this area that was established by Germans.

My favorite part of the festival, though, is the photo collage of all the old-timers, their homes and farm equipment all over the walls at the entrance. I always like to talk to some of the current generation about the past, and they always have the best stories to tell! Some ladies from the local historical society have these folks sign in when they get there, and then later during the auditorium presentation, all the names are called out. The family members stand and are recognized. It's really wonderful to see all these people that our schools are named for.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I saw a report on KHOU a few months ago that people in Generation X were losing their native tongues because of the fact that there weren't many schools that were teaching their languages. They used the Vietnamese community here in the SWAT for an example. The adults knew and understood Vietnamese, and a pretty good amount of that generation have opened Viet-based stores. But people 25 and under didn't have an understanding of the language because not had a total grasp of the language at home before the end of middle school, and once high-school were complete, they would have to find extensive tutorials in order to learn their ancestor's language.

What if languages like Vietnamese, Korean, Cantonese, and other Asian languages were available in public schools somehow. Doesn't even have to be in the curriculum. Couldn't those kinds of languages be afterschool clubs starting in Elementary?

[pineda]

Really, it doesn't even have to be offered through the schools either, much less on the curriculum. The schools already have a lot on their plates, just trying to get all the kids to pass TAKS. The clubs could meet at the schools though, just not be funded by the schools. You could probably even get native speakers to come in for almost nothing to share their language with the students.

There are so many different languages out there, where would even begin to define which ones should be offered, when it comes to languages like Mandarin, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, etc.?

Maybe the schools could start by taking in-school surveys to gauge interest. Ask what language clubs the kids would be interested in forming and actually attending. The answers might surprise all of us. Personally, I'd pick Gaelic, but others like Puma might like to take Farsi, for example.

Maybe offer the language class clubs as a means to an end. For example, Jewish children learn Hebrew in order to prepare for their Barmitzvah/Batmitzvah. When my daughter was taking Irish dance class, we learned about the Gaelic language, which is experiencing a real upswing these past few years.

It's a great idea, and probably best to start at the grass-roots level, with one school at first. If it's successful, expand it to other schools but make sure it's tailor-made for that school.

Plus, there's so many great resources available on the internet,through online courses and even some fantastic homeschool courses.

From the Houston Chronicle article:

With all the talk of China's booming economy, Mandarin seems like a logical choice to many parents and educators.

Sharon MacLaren, who adopted two little girls from China, led the charge to have Mandarin Chinese added to the mix at Kolter.

"It's a new world order and it isn't Japanese anymore. It's Chinese," she said. "It's not just on the horizon. It's already risen."

Uh, whoa! Edited December 20, 2006 by pineda

[VicMan]

A Kolter-style program should be expanded to more schools. But, as said by pineda, language programs should be tailored to specific schools.

""It's a new world order and it isn't Japanese anymore. It's Chinese," she said. "It's not just on the horizon. It's already risen.""

I would say that it's both, actually; a lot of anime and manga nerds in the USA try to understand and learn about Japanese, for instance.

[TheNiche]

Am I the only one on here that thinks that children should be taught to understand and use English effectively and properly before moving on to other languages? Don't get me wrong--I'm not knocking biligualism--but there are still way too many kids (and adults) that can't use English very well. Priorities.

[musicman]

Am I the only one on here that thinks that children should be taught to understand and use English effectively and properly before moving on to other languages? Don't get me wrong--I'm not knocking biligualism--but there are still way too many kids (and adults) that can't use English very well. Priorities.

in many ways learning a foreign language helps you understand English better. it makes you think about the english equivalents. i know i wasn't using lay/lie correctly.

[pineda]

No, Niche, you are right. Learning to use the English language effectively should be and is a top priority already in all U.S. schools. I think what this article is trying to elaborate on is that learning a second language is a good addition to the core subjects, such as English. The article mentions that learning a second language is easier at a young age and that children who learn a second language score well on standardized tests. One thing that was left out of the story though was that in addition to learning a second language, sports activities and music and art classes also have been shown to help students achieve higher test results. It's not just learning a second language that helps.

[TheNiche]

No, Niche, you are right. Learning to use the English language effectively should be and is a top priority already in all U.S. schools. I think what this article is trying to elaborate on is that learning a second language is a good addition to the core subjects, such as English. The article mentions that learning a second language is easier at a young age and that children who learn a second language score well on standardized tests. One thing that was left out of the story though was that in addition to learning a second language, sports activities and music and art classes also have been shown to help students achieve higher test results. It's not just learning a second language that helps.

Agreed. The question that remains unanswered in my mind is how best to allocate students' limited time to so many useful fields of study. If we teach second languages, surely some other curriculum is going to suffer.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I think learning a second or multiple languages is great, but i dont think it should be mandatory. In my home you are likely to hear english-hebrew-arabic spoken at any given time. Before we haul off to make learning a second language a top priority, we should make sure the students have a proper command of the english language. It still amazes me that we have people which are born and raised in this country and they still cannot speak standard english.

[TheNiche]

I think learning a second or multiple languages is great, but i dont think it should be mandatory. In my home you are likely to hear english-hebrew-arabic spoken at any given time. Before we haul off to make learning a second language a top priority, we should make sure the students have a proper command of the english language. It still amazes me that we have people which are born and raised in this country and they still cannot speak standard english.

Psst...capitalization errors.

[Parrothead]

Most of the great civilizations throughout history collapsed, some scholars say, as a result of too many languages.

I vote "nope".

[west20th]

Most of the great civilizations throughout history collapsed, some scholars say, as a result of too many languages.

I vote "nope".

Examples?

[DJ V Lawrence]

Psst...capitalization errors.

>

[webdude]

Studies have shown that learning different languages can have a bunch of postive effects on the brain(read somewhere, don't ask me to dig), but can also can end up causing students to being less proficient in both languages (also read somewhere).

I think it is necessary for practical reasons, to survive in the new world economy, which someone has already pointed out.

But a more interesting question is, if you were forced to learn a new language today, which one would you choose and why?

Edited December 20, 2006 by webdude

[TheNiche]

But a more interesting question is, if you were forced to learn a new language today, which one would you choose and why?

If it got to the point that they forced me, then depending upon the consequences, I'd either shrug, not study, and fail, study Spanish half-assedly, pass the exam, and then forget everything, or (if they were really asses about it) start a revolutionary militia.

I don't take well to being forced.

[pineda]

very good article in Time magazine on December 18, 2006

If you're truly interested in this thread's topic of discussion, get this article. It's a good one!

[ricco67]

While I believe that to become successful learning more than one language is extremely important, and the ability to at least learn the basics about another language is useful; I would have to agree that learning how to USE and SPEAK english properly should be taught as early as 5th grade, but no later than 7th, by then speaking habits have already taken root.

That being said, the english language is constantly changing, adding, and dropping words, meanings and pronounciations.

While one must not be overly strict in the usage of the english language, the way to properly apply it should take a higher priority.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Funny. People believing that learning a second language in America is important speaks volumes. Before, the world had to learn our language because of our military, economic and educational prowess, which was achieved by those that gave a damn about our way of life and protecting it. Now the relaxed and uncaring attitude towards our own American english will send this nation into a tail spin. Catering to other languages and people of other nationalities that do not speak english without requiring them to learn english is a big mistake.

Psst...capitalization errors.

! T'kharev betak

Find any errors there?

[webdude]

Funny. People believing that learning a second language in America is important speaks volumes. Before, the world had to learn our language because of our military, economic and educational prowess, which was achieved by those that gave a damn about our way of life and protecting it. Now the relaxed and uncaring attitude towards our own American english will send this nation into a tail spin. Catering to other languages and people of other nationalities that do not speak english without requiring them to learn english is a big mistake.

! T'kharev betak

Find any errors there?

This is not the result of 'uncaring' attitude, it is the result of other countries moving up in the global economy. You speak with the implication that we are learning other languages for the sake of being pc (catering), when it is really about preparing our younger generation for the future. Let's face it, other countries have caught up and suppress us in many areas, we can't afford to be smug any more. Language protectionism will do us more harm than good.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

This is not the result of 'uncaring' attitude, it is the result of other countries moving up in the global economy. You speak with the implication that we are learning other languages for the sake of being pc (catering), when it is really about preparing our younger generation for the future. Let's face it, other countries have caught up and suppress us in many areas, we can't afford to be smug any more. Language protectionism will do us more harm than good.

You are correct in saying we cannot afford to be smug anymore. My generation is ageing and the generation before me has for the most part, retired. These possessed drive and determination on a global scale that is lacking by large part today. I dont see the same sort of determination which has allowed us to be able to be smug in todays society as it was in previous.

Language protectionism will not harm us. Thats silly!

[TheNiche]

Let's face it, other countries have caught up and suppress us in many areas, we can't afford to be smug any more.

You mean "surpassed," right?

No other nation has surpassed us. That is BS. We will be surpassed in the future; fortunately, they will only have done so by trading intensively with us and by having trained their populations in English and other western languages. I don't think that this is something that we need to worry too much about. The market for translators is self-correcting.

[Subdude]

Back to languages, I don't think there's any real downside to kids studying other languages. Isn't there a huge demand for Americans who can speak the non-European languages, especially Arabic and Chinese? The daughter of a co-worker is majoring in business and Chinese, on the theory that it will open a lot of doors for her after she graduates. Makes sense to me.

[TheNiche]

Back to languages, I don't think there's any real downside to kids studying other languages. Isn't there a huge demand for Americans who can speak the non-European languages, especially Arabic and Chinese? The daughter of a co-worker is majoring in business and Chinese, on the theory that it will open a lot of doors for her after she graduates. Makes sense to me.

A former girlfriend of mine went to China for a year to study the language. It turned out to be a secondary skill set. It did help her get her foot in the door at the firm where she works, but the pay is about the same as most people within her occupation with her level of experience.

[webdude]

You are correct in saying we cannot afford to be smug anymore. My generation is ageing and the generation before me has for the most part, retired. These possessed drive and determination on a global scale that is lacking by large part today. I dont see the same sort of determination which has allowed us to be able to be smug in todays society as it was in previous.

Language protectionism will not harm us. Thats silly!

It will harm us, the world is shrinking, we do want the next generation to communicate with others to conduct business, do we not? Lauguage protectionism will make us lose global competitiveness.

You mean "surpassed," right?

No other nation has surpassed us. That is BS. We will be surpassed in the future; fortunately, they will only have done so by trading intensively with us and by having trained their populations in English and other western languages. I don't think that this is something that we need to worry too much about. The market for translators is self-correcting.

I believe I said 'in many areas'. You don't think we are number one in everything, do you? It will be really BS if we think we are still number one in everything.

Edited December 21, 2006 by webdude

[TheNiche]

I believe I said 'in many areas'. You don't think we are number one in everything, do you? It will be really BS if we think we are still number one in everything.

You just have to take a broader look at it. Take manufacturing, for instance. We're really very good at it. But our labor has a higher and better use in other sectors, so places like China gain the competitive advantage...but ONLY because we have so many other things that we're so good at and a finite amount of labor to go around.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

It will harm us, the world is shrinking, we do want the next generation to communicate with others to conduct business, do we not? Lauguage protectionism will make us lose global competitiveness.

I dont believe in this anymore than i believe in kosher hogs or heavenly devils, its just not a truism!

Language protectionism will continue to force others to learn english. My line of work takes me outside of the USA, many times to non english speaking countries. EVERY single one of my counterparts from the non english speaking countries are fluent in english. They learn english because it is advantageous to do so in the business world.

BTW--The China is rising hype is way overated.

[feufoma]

. EVERY single one of my counterparts from the non english speaking countries are fluent in english. They learn english because it is advantageous to do so in the business world.

Although it's true that English is the language of business it seems typically "American" (and British) to take the attitude that everyone else should just learn English. If you're not bilingual you're ignorant. Period.