Article On The Trinity River Bridge

[UNLV]

http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?newsid...12588&rfi=8

Workers first will build a new two-lane expanse with wide shoulders north of the existing 75-foot tall bridge, Shepherd said. When the new 50-foot tall bridge is complete, all four lanes of traffic will move to it, with the shoulders temporarily serving as travel lanes.

Workers then will dismantle the existing four lanes and build a second 50-foot tall bridge to carry eastbound traffic, Shepherd said.

[TheNiche]

http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?newsid...12588&rfi=8

Workers first will build a new two-lane expanse with wide shoulders north of the existing 75-foot tall bridge, Shepherd said. When the new 50-foot tall bridge is complete, all four lanes of traffic will move to it, with the shoulders temporarily serving as travel lanes.

Workers then will dismantle the existing four lanes and build a second 50-foot tall bridge to carry eastbound traffic, Shepherd said.

Anybody get the sense that Chambers County officials might be a bit optimistic about the impacts of this no-capacity-added bridge replacement project serving an uncongested freeway?

[CDeb]

Anybody get the sense that Chambers County officials might be a bit optimistic about the impacts of this no-capacity-added bridge replacement project serving an uncongested freeway?

I think they're a bit optimistic about the development impact.

However, just because they're not adding lanes doesn't mean they're not adding capacity. I travel this way fairly often (I could probably drive from north Houston to Lafayette blindfolded) and this spot is a common bottleneck with drivers doing a scaredy-cat slowdown due to non-existent shoulders and truckers slowing down on the steep grades. It'll definitely be an operational improvement over what currently exists.

Additionally, the extra-wide shoulders leave room for an additional future lane, similarly to the Old & Lost Rivers and Sabine River bridges.

[TheNiche]

However, just because they're not adding lanes doesn't mean they're not adding capacity. I travel this way fairly often (I could probably drive from north Houston to Lafayette blindfolded) and this spot is a common bottleneck with drivers doing a scaredy-cat slowdown due to non-existent shoulders and truckers slowing down on the steep grades. It'll definitely be an operational improvement over what currently exists.

Additionally, the extra-wide shoulders leave room for an additional future lane, similarly to the Old & Lost Rivers and Sabine River bridges.

True 'nuff.

[Justin]

Actually, they are building it to three lanes. The paper ran a correction in Friday's issue saying that it was three lanes.

A connection of mine at the paper told me that the reporter's source (I'd assume TxDOT Beaumont District spokesman Marc Shepherd) told the reporter that it was a two-lane bridge by mistake. They'd contacted him after someone let them know about the goof and he admitted he'd told 'em the wrong thing.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Justin

[UNLV]

When complete, it will be 3 lanes on each side plus a wide shoulder. Work to rebuild I-10 to 6 lanes and shoulder between Winnie and Beaumont is almost finish the enviromental studies. In Beaumont I-10 will be 8 lanes between interchange and UP over pass. 10 lanes between UP over pass and 69 Interchange.

[Justin]

In Beaumont I-10 will be 8 lanes between interchange and UP over pass. 10 lanes between UP over pass and 69 Interchange.

I'm assuming you're talking about the south interchange, and then the north one....

[UNLV]

I'm assuming you're talking about the south interchange, and then the north one....

Yes. 8 Lanes from south interchange to UP tracks. 10 Lanes from UP tracks to north interchange.

[C2H]

DANG how long is the trinity river? I knew it went through DFW but didn't know it was in Houston.

[CDeb]

DANG how long is the trinity river?

It has to get to the gulf somehow, doesn't it?

It crosses I-10 to the east of Houston, about 20 miles west of Winnie.

[C2H]

It has to get to the gulf somehow, doesn't it?

It crosses I-10 to the east of Houston, about 20 miles west of Winnie.

if that was supposed to be one of those common sense answers, i'll have you know that we have major rivers up here in Colorado that aren't connected to a coast. But thanks for the answer

[Houston19514]

if that was supposed to be one of those common sense answers, i'll have you know that we have major rivers up here in Colorado that aren't connected to a coast. But thanks for the answer

Just curious... where does the water from such major rivers go?

[RedScare]

if that was supposed to be one of those common sense answers, i'll have you know that we have major rivers up here in Colorado that aren't connected to a coast. But thanks for the answer

Actually, all of Colorado's major rivers eventually terminate at a coast. The Colorado terminates in Baja, Mexico. The Rio Grande terminates at Brownsville, Texas. The North Platte, South Platte, and Republican Rivers merge into the Missouri, which in turn is a tributary of the Mississippi. The Arkansas River is likwise a tributary of the Mississippi.

[C2H]

Actually, all of Colorado's major rivers eventually terminate at a coast. The Colorado terminates in Baja, Mexico. The Rio Grande terminates at Brownsville, Texas. The North Platte, South Platte, and Republican Rivers merge into the Missouri, which in turn is a tributary of the Mississippi. The Arkansas River is likwise a tributary of the Mississippi.

One thing that you didn't to point out is that Colorado has quite a few Resevoirs and Lakes. The rivers sometimes terminate at a resevoir and pick back up on the other side of the Resevoir under a different name. While I didn't really intend to into heavy logistics about where rivers originate or termniate, its still interesting to see how rivers often cross fom state to state.

I was just surprised that the trinity river extended into Houston.

Just curious... where does the water from such major rivers go?

Some cool info: The Pueblo Resevoir is a manmade resevoir that sits in south Central Colorado that serves a similar function as a coast. To answer your question, the resevoirs serve as major arteries where alot of rivers meet. If you think about it, these rivers have a similar artificial function to what the Port of Dallas will have. Rivers serve as extentions that feed off other large bodies of water just like the Port of Dallas will feed of POH.

[RedScare]

One thing that you didn't to point out is that Colorado has quite a few Resevoirs and Lakes. The rivers sometimes terminate at a resevoir and pick back up on the other side of the Resevoir under a different name. While I didn't really intend to into heavy logistics about where rivers originate or termniate, its still interesting to see how rivers often cross fom state to state.

I was just surprised that the trinity river extended into Houston.

Some cool info: The Pueblo Resevoir is a manmade resevoir that sits in south Central Colorado that serves a similar function as a coast. To answer your question, the resevoirs serve as major arteries where alot of rivers meet. If you think about it, these rivers have a similar artificial function to what the Port of Dallas will have. Rivers serve as extentions that feed off other large bodies of water just like the Port of Dallas will feed of POH.

That is not entirely accurate. Reservoirs are created by damming a river, thus causing the river to back up behind the dam. The riverbed is submerged, but it does not disappear. The Pueblo Reservoir was created by damming the Arkansas River. The Arkansas River does not terminate at the reservoir, but runs through the middle of the reservoir to the dam, and continues downstream, eventually terminating at the Mississippi River. The Colorado has a couple of pretty famous reservoirs along it's length as well.

I certainly agree with you that how rivers traverse a state, especially one with a mountain range in the middle of it, is extremely interesting. In fact, I wonder how many Texans know that the Rio Grande begins in Colorado.

http://www.secwcd.com/puebres.htm

[DaTrain]

Houston Chronicle's version of the article. I'm late with this cuz this was October 6, the day of article. And unlike the link posted above it talks about the amount of deaths and wrecks related to that old old old bridge.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...ro/4239910.html

[JLWM8609]

I drove to Port Arthur today and saw that traffic had been shifted to the new section of bridge reserved for the future WB lanes of I-10. The old Trinity River Bridge was being dismantled.

I-10 Trinity River Bridge (1955-2009)

Back when it was built, the highway was Texas 73, which was later truncated to Winnie after the I-10 designation was given. Since it was built so early, it wasn't to interstate standards which came out in 1956. You can tell that the center barrier was probably an afterthought and there was likely a curb or double yellow line there before. The National Bridge Database says that the structure was structurally deficient and the railing was supposedly not up to modern standards. I suppose to some it was scary, but when conditions were good and there were no other cars or trucks nearby, I liked taking that steep, narrow bridge at 70+ mph.

Edited November 5, 2009 by JLWM8609

[Montrose1100]

That is not entirely accurate. Reservoirs are created by damming a river, thus causing the river to back up behind the dam. The riverbed is submerged, but it does not disappear. The Pueblo Reservoir was created by damming the Arkansas River. The Arkansas River does not terminate at the reservoir, but runs through the middle of the reservoir to the dam, and continues downstream, eventually terminating at the Mississippi River. The Colorado has a couple of pretty famous reservoirs along it's length as well.

I certainly agree with you that how rivers traverse a state, especially one with a mountain range in the middle of it, is extremely interesting. In fact, I wonder how many Texans know that the Rio Grande begins in Colorado.

http://www.secwcd.com/puebres.htm

I saw the Rio Grande when I was skiing in South Fork/Wolf Creek. It was very tiny! Made me want to get on a raft and make it to Brownsville

[samagon]

In fact, I wonder how many Texans know that the Rio Grande begins in Colorado.

http://www.secwcd.com/puebres.htm

On an even more sad note, you've also got to wonder how many Texans know that the original boundaries for the Republic of Texas followed the Rio Grande river all the way up into Colorado, and that our former republic even stretched so far as to encompass a small part of Wyoming.

[20thStDad]

I drove to Port Arthur today and saw that traffic had been shifted to the new section of bridge reserved for the future WB lanes of I-10. The old Trinity River Bridge was being dismantled.

I-10 Trinity River Bridge (1955-2009)

Back when it was built, the highway was Texas 73, which was later truncated to Winnie after the I-10 designation was given. Since it was built so early, it wasn't to interstate standards which came out in 1956. You can tell that the center barrier was probably an afterthought and there was likely a curb or double yellow line there before. The National Bridge Database says that the structure was structurally deficient and the railing was supposedly not up to modern standards. I suppose to some it was scary, but when conditions were good and there were no other cars or trucks nearby, I liked taking that steep, narrow bridge at 70+ mph.

This bridge has been the bottleneck for me getting 3 lanes all the way from Houston to exit 873 on our frequent trips back to BR, so I'm glad they're finally doing it. This one is definitely old and feels underbuilt, but it's still better than the bridge in Lake Charles. That one consistently fails inspections and I've had people tell me it's best to just go around it on the 210 Lake Charles loop.

[JLWM8609]

This bridge has been the bottleneck for me getting 3 lanes all the way from Houston to exit 873 on our frequent trips back to BR, so I'm glad they're finally doing it.

There's a 4 lane section of I-10 from Winnie to Beaumont. I don't know if there are any plans to widen it as it seems like I-10 loses a little bit of traffic at Winnie to folks taking 73 into Port Arthur.

[plumber2]

I drove to Port Arthur today and saw that traffic had been shifted to the new section of bridge reserved for the future WB lanes of I-10. The old Trinity River Bridge was being dismantled.

I-10 Trinity River Bridge (1955-2009)

Back when it was built, the highway was Texas 73, which was later truncated to Winnie after the I-10 designation was given. Since it was built so early, it wasn't to interstate standards which came out in 1956. You can tell that the center barrier was probably an afterthought and there was likely a curb or double yellow line there before. The National Bridge Database says that the structure was structurally deficient and the railing was supposedly not up to modern standards. I suppose to some it was scary, but when conditions were good and there were no other cars or trucks nearby, I liked taking that steep, narrow bridge at 70+ mph.

This orginal bridge and several others built during this period that cross the Trinity River were built with vertical clearnaces in mind for eventual barge traffic. The Corps of Engineers was actually considering dredging the river all the way to Dallas. This plan was dropped in the late 60's. That is why this replacement bridge only needs to be 50'high. A higher vertical clearance is not needed now.

[20thStDad]

There's a 4 lane section of I-10 from Winnie to Beaumont. I don't know if there are any plans to widen it as it seems like I-10 loses a little bit of traffic at Winnie to folks taking 73 into Port Arthur.

Yeah but that part is easy. The big bridge is the hard part. They've done a ton of construction over the past 9 years, and a lot of areas can handle 3 lanes but are only striped for 2, probably to avoid traffic issues with losing a lane randomly.

[Justin]

There's a 4 lane section of I-10 from Winnie to Beaumont. I don't know if there are any plans to widen it as it seems like I-10 loses a little bit of traffic at Winnie to folks taking 73 into Port Arthur.

It won't happen anytime soon. TxDOT's Beaumont district made a big announcement about that a year or two ago. I'm not even sure if they've done any studies into it yet, their priority, right now, is getting Orange County's stretch widened to six lanes all the way to the Louisiana border. Edited November 8, 2009 by Justin

[UNLV]

Trinity river bridge is going down fast. Most likely all gone by December.

I-10 between Winnie and Beaumont will remain 4 lames for at least another decade.

TX-DOT is using Beaumont money for Houston.

[MaxConcrete]

This orginal bridge and several others built during this period that cross the Trinity River were built with vertical clearnaces in mind for eventual barge traffic. The Corps of Engineers was actually considering dredging the river all the way to Dallas. This plan was dropped in the late 60's. That is why this replacement bridge only needs to be 50'high. A higher vertical clearance is not needed now.

Actually, the Trinity Waterway barge canal to DFW was still very much alive in the late 1960s. The beginning of the end for the barge canal was March 1973 when Dallas County voters rejected a property tax increase to pay for their $150 million share of the estimated $1.6 billion project. Of course, it would have cost far more than $1.6 billion.

The project was on life support but not dead after 1973. In March 1977 the Army Corps of Engineers recommended killing the project. There were still some politicians who tried to keep it alive, but it was basically dead in 1977.

What's interesting is the 75-foot clearance of the original 1955 I-10 bridge. The plan to extend the canal to DFW received a Corps recommendation in 1962. In the DFW area, bridges built prior to 1962 were not built to accommodate the canal. The only high-clearance and long-span bridges over the Trinity (anticipating the barge canal) were built in the early 1970s. Those bridges have a 52-foot vertical clearance.

So I'm wondering what was actually envisioned for that section of the Trinity in the early 1950s when the I-10 bridge was built. Obviously a canal, but I'm wondering how far upstream it went and why it had a 75-foot clearance.

[JLWM8609]

The only high-clearance and long-span bridges over the Trinity (anticipating the barge canal) were built in the early 1970s. Those bridges have a 52-foot vertical clearance.

So that explains those rises on the I-45 and I-20 bridges over the Trinity in Dallas.

Here's a link of interest about an upcoming documentary on the Trinity River.

http://trinityrivertexas.org/

[dfwcre8tive]

You can watch the documentary in its entirety here: http://video.kera.org/video/1340922147/

While focusing heavily on the Trinity's effect on Dallas/Fort Worth, it also talks about the Trinity Canal project all the way to the coast and the series of canals/locks/lakes that were planned.