Grand Parkway Association Sends Out A Mailer

[ENGcons]

Got a certified letter in the mail from the Grand Parkway People. It was a flier talking about the public hearing on July 11th. It had a map on the flier but it looks as if the path for section F-2 has not changed at all. And according to the flier the northern route through montgomery county was not studied due to the lack of need.

Looks like the residents of Spring are going to get screwed. Estimated time for construction to begin on F-2 is 2009.

[mrfootball]

Forgive my lack of knowledge about the ongoing issues with the proposed Grand Pkwy, but which neighborhoods are going to be affected by this? And how are they getting screwed?

[adagio]

Forgive my lack of knowledge about the ongoing issues with the proposed Grand Pkwy, but which neighborhoods are going to be affected by this? And how are they getting screwed?

It's okay Mr. Football, many residents that will be impacted by the F2 preferred alignment still do not realize the full impact of the alignment. The Grand Parkway Segment F2 is not a rural highway as stated in the past DEIS. The roadway will be more like Beltway 8 or Hardy Tollroad (Tx Dot is planning on high volume for this segment - The Grand Parkway Association will be using toll revenue from F2 to build more roadways)

Going from East to West the preferred alignment of F2 will impact the following neighborhoods and schools.

From I 45 the Grand Parkway will run next to the railroad track (which will be relocated in sections to accomodate the highway). The Grand Parkway will pass directly behind Forest Ridge and Forest North subdivisions. It will go through the middle of Mossy Oaks and Fox Hollow subdivisons (not to worry say Grand Parkway officials - they will elevate the roadway in those neighborhoods). It will go through the middle of Hyde's Crossing and cross over Gosling (once again elevated). It will then pass within less than a mile from Northampton Pines and Northampton subdivision. The Grand Parkway will pass within 1000 feet from Klein Oak High School (elevated) - and be located under a mile from Hildebrandt Intermediate and Northampton Elementary School.

The highway will then cross Kuykendahl Road and pass right next to Spring Terrace. It will go through the back end of the Klein ISD property that Krimmel Intermediate school is currently being built upon. (It will also be less than a mile from Benignus Elementary School - which is at the entrance of Windrose subdivision.

The Grand Parkway will be located next to Willow Trace, Pinewood Place, Inverness Estates, Glen Hollow, Sugar Berry Place Cottage Gardens, and Gleannloch Farms. As it passes by Gleannloch Farms, it will be located under a mile from Frank Elementary School which is due to open August 2008. It will then pass next to Northern Point, Willow Falls, Three Lakes, and Pinecrest. As it passes these subdivions, it will be under a mile from Kohrville Elementary School.

Many of the neigborhoods that I have cited above have houses built right up to where the alignment has been marked. While many residents would appreciate having accessibility, I am personally not sure how many want to live right next to a freeway with the noise, light, air pollution, and flooding issues that accompany such a project.

The information I am giving you is on http://www.grandpky.com/home/ in the segment section. You can also access the revised DEIS from this website. I am pretty sure there are other subdivisions that are going to be impacted because I continue to see new development spring up as I drive both FM 2920 and Boudreaux Road - The map for the F2 segment of the Grand Parkway needs to be updated.

I hope this gives you some insight into what is happening in this part of Spring.

[Subdude]

It will go through the middle of Mossy Oaks and Fox Hollow subdivisons (not to worry say Grand Parkway officials - they will elevate the roadway in those neighborhoods). It will go through the middle of Hyde's Crossing and cross over Gosling (once again elevated). It will then pass within less than a mile from Northampton Pines and Northampton subdivision. The Grand Parkway will pass within 1000 feet from Klein Oak High School (elevated) - and be located under a mile from Hildebrandt Intermediate and Northampton Elementary School.

Good grief. If they have to build this thing, can't they at least depress it instead of building elevated sections? Don't we ever learn? Nothing like building giant, noisy walls right through the middle of residential areas.

[ENGcons]

Does the GP come off 249 heading east right ontop of the now existing Boudreax road, or a few yards south of Boudreax road like the original design? The new map on the flier is very misleading as I think is the intent.

And in the Gleannloch Farms edition where you state it passes less than a mile from Frank ES, it is more like it passes about 500 to 1000 yards from it.

[adagio]

Does the GP come off 249 heading east right ontop of the now existing Boudreax road, or a few yards south of Boudreax road like the original design? The new map on the flier is very misleading as I think is the intent.

And in the Gleannloch Farms edition where you state it passes less than a mile from Frank ES, it is more like it passes about 500 to 1000 yards from it.

You are correct on both accounts. The map shown on the website does not have a scale of miles, nor does it show all the development that has gone on in the last six months. I do not think Frank Elementary is even shown on the map.

The map in the flier is completely useless.

[TheNiche]

Tx Dot is planning on high volume for this segment

So there's demand for the roadway, then?

Seems like relatively few residents (in the grand scheme) will be adversely impacted...even as everyone in a very broad area gets to enjoy the use of the facility.

[pineda]

Yes, there's demand for the roadway. Problem is, the demand is coming from the Woodlands area. However, for some reason, even though they want it built, they don't want it "in their backyards".

[bachanon]

i sent a link about this current information to friends who have a home in windrose. their response was positive. they say they will be happy to have easier access to 249/290 and I-45. it isn't just the woodlands that will benefit.

[ENGcons]

i sent a link about this current information to friends who have a home in windrose. their response was positive. they say they will be happy to have easier access to 249/290 and I-45. it isn't just the woodlands that will benefit.

These people are happy because they won't lose their property for the addition of a road that is not intended for the residents, but intended as a bypass around Houston proper. It will be a heavy traffic road for traffic traveling along the future I-69 corridor. This is not intended for the locals to gain access to I-45, or FM 249. The people building this road could care less about the residents, which is beconing more obvious as this project moves forward.

[TJones]

I drove down the recently finished part of 59 towards downtown yesterday, which had been elevated for years, and is now "depressed" I have to agree with Subdude, that it is much better, I think doing the same with 99 around the subs would be beneficial, both where noise and aesthetics are concerned.

[adagio]

These people are happy because they won't lose their property for the addition of a road that is not intended for the residents, but intended as a bypass around Houston proper. It will be a heavy traffic road for traffic traveling along the future I-69 corridor. This is not intended for the locals to gain access to I-45, or FM 249. The people building this road could care less about the residents, which is beconing more obvious as this project moves forward.

In addition, residents of both Windrose and Gleannloch subdivisions should be concerned because both have schools near this highway that will used by traffic traveling along the future I-69 corridor. This will be a concern for parents with children with asthma and breathing problems. In addition, the placement of the preferred alignment will be a concern for property owners because their properties will lose some marketability with potential customers. This is no longer just a problem pertaining to Klein Oak and surrounding schools.

[pineda]

That's funny, Bach, because I know PLENTY of residents in Windrose who are very upset about the plans for the Grand Parkway. I guess it depends who you ask. I based my Woodlands comments on the fact that every little quasi-governmental group/association in the Woodlands has lent their support to this project, while at the same time, emphatically stating that it stay south of the Spring Creek bridge.

[mrfootball]

They ought to run that damned thing right up Woodlands Parkway.

[Trae]

Depressing the freeway will probably double the time of completion. That was said for the Katy Freeway. 59 looks real nice though. The greenary and freeway aethetics look great. And the lights are not high mast lights. They feels for like neighborhood street lights.

[mrfootball]

They did a nice job with 59...Houston's mini version of Dallas N. Central Expressway.

I'd like to see them respect the neighborhoods they will be intruding on and construct these section below ground level, so that the visual blight and noise are somewhat mitigated.

[TheNiche]

Yes, there's demand for the roadway. Problem is, the demand is coming from the Woodlands area. However, for some reason, even though they want it built, they don't want it "in their backyards".

So basically, the road is needed in this general area, but we've just got down to the point where most every neighborhood is trying to shove off their problems on other neighborhoods? Somebody's going to have to take a bullet...it sucks...but is necessary for the greater good.

Depressing the freeway will probably double the time of completion. That was said for the Katy Freeway. 59 looks real nice though. The greenary and freeway aethetics look great. And the lights are not high mast lights. They feels for like neighborhood street lights.

Agreed. But land values inside the Loop abutting the Southwest Freeway are a hell of a lot higher than out in Spring. I could envision a slight depression (like the Katy Frwy. inside the Loop), but recreating US 59 would be prohibitively expensive and wouldn't preserve enough value to justify the expense.

[pineda]

So basically, the road is needed in this general area, but we've just got down to the point where most every neighborhood is trying to shove off their problems on other neighborhoods? Somebody's going to have to take a bullet...it sucks...but is necessary for the greater good.

You've got "need" and "demand" confused. Yes, there's a demand for the road by folks in Montgomery County, but the need has yet to be established, even going into the third round of DEIS Public Hearings.

[ENGcons]

So basically, the road is needed in this general area, but we've just got down to the point where most every neighborhood is trying to shove off their problems on other neighborhoods? Somebody's going to have to take a bullet...it sucks...but is necessary for the greater good.

Agreed. But land values inside the Loop abutting the Southwest Freeway are a hell of a lot higher than out in Spring. I could envision a slight depression (like the Katy Frwy. inside the Loop), but recreating US 59 would be prohibitively expensive and wouldn't preserve enough value to justify the expense.

Niche, what pineda is sayng is the demand for the roadway is furter north in Montgomery County, not in Harris county in Spring. She is saying the road should be further north because that is where it is needed more.

But John Lindsey apparantly doesn't own some land up there that he can sell to TXDOT, and developers for the road. After all he only wants $5,000 a day to be a consultant for land aquisition for the Grand Parkway after he retires from his seat up in Austin. No wonder he is the biggest cheerleader for this project which seems to be driven by personal gain not a need for the residents.

[Subdude]

But land values inside the Loop abutting the Southwest Freeway are a hell of a lot higher than out in Spring. I could envision a slight depression (like the Katy Frwy. inside the Loop), but recreating US 59 would be prohibitively expensive and wouldn't preserve enough value to justify the expense.

But wouldn't lower land values mean that more could be spent on aesthetics? I wasn't saying the whole road should be depressed, but it should be when cutting through residential areas, instead of building elevated sections.

[Parrothead]

Here's what I don't understand: there's a huge, wide strip of land that runs parallel to the power lines, why can't the state use their legal power of eminent domain with the power company and build it there?

[mrfootball]

Why not run it down 2920???

But John Lindsey apparantly doesn't own some land up there that he can sell to TXDOT, and developers for the road. After all he only wants $5,000 a day to be a consultant for land aquisition for the Grand Parkway after he retires from his seat up in Austin. No wonder he is the biggest cheerleader for this project which seems to be driven by personal gain not a need for the residents.

As for this, if true, this needs to see some daylight and be exposed to the public.

[pineda]

As for this, if true, this needs to see some daylight and be exposed to the public.

This information has already been widely reported in both the Houston Press & Houston Chronicle. If you want to check it out, go to either publications Search functions.

Why not run it down 2920???

This was one of the many alternate routes originally considered. The very first route had it going directly on Spring Cypress, but then the landowners who were developing Gleannloch Farms got wind of the idea, and nixed that right away. 'Course now, the folks in G.F. are freaking out about the potential plans to enlarge Hooks Airport to allow bigger planes to land there. Oh well...

[mrfootball]

Seriously, if you were able to turn Hooks into premier private jet facility it would naturally be a major draw for corporations looking to re-locate to the new Vintage Park development, as well as current occupants in The Woodlands Town Center. It's convenient to both areas (unfortunately not so convenient for area residents).

I didn't realize Gleannloch butted up to Hooks.

The most common sense path for the Grand Pkway is down 2920. It utilizes existing rights of way, and already serves as a major route.

[TheNiche]

But wouldn't lower land values mean that more could be spent on aesthetics? I wasn't saying the whole road should be depressed, but it should be when cutting through residential areas, instead of building elevated sections.

Example: $300k to $500k homes line the trenched US 59 section, pretty much continuously. If it'd been at-grade, those homes would likely diminish in value by between $50k and $150k, each.

Homes that are in Spring are more typically priced from $100k to $300k...they don't have as far to fall if a freeway is built next to them. Because the dollar amount of impact per freeway mile is less, there is less of a reason to spend big $$$ on impact mitigation. Noise walls will likely get the biggest bang for the buck.

Niche, what pineda is sayng is the demand for the roadway is furter north in Montgomery County, not in Harris county in Spring. She is saying the road should be further north because that is where it is needed more.

Actually, it just occurred to me that if you built it further north, you'd alienate many commuters from Spring that are trying to travel southbound on I-45 because they'd first have to go north in order to go south...whereas, commuters from The Woodlands would have a natural predisposition to travel further south in order to access a freeway that would connect them with I-45 so that they could go further south. Seems like demand would be strongest if the freeway was able to serve both areas.

[pineda]

Actually, it just occurred to me that if you built it further north, you'd alienate many commuters from Spring that are trying to travel southbound on I-45 because they'd first have to go north in order to go south...whereas, commuters from The Woodlands would have a natural predisposition to travel further south in order to access a freeway that would connect them with I-45 so that they could go further south. Seems like demand would be strongest if the freeway was able to serve both areas.

ROTFLMAO!! I just occurred to me that you're seriously trying to yank my chain!

[TheNiche]

ROTFLMAO!! I just occurred to me that you're seriously trying to yank my chain!

Uh, no...why? What's so funny?

[Subdude]

Example: $300k to $500k homes line the trenched US 59 section, pretty much continuously. If it'd been at-grade, those homes would likely diminish in value by between $50k and $150k, each.

Homes that are in Spring are more typically priced from $100k to $300k...they don't have as far to fall if a freeway is built next to them. Because the dollar amount of impact per freeway mile is less, there is less of a reason to spend big $$$ on impact mitigation. Noise walls will likely get the biggest bang for the buck.

I'd hate to think that freeway design features should be based on the housing value in adjacent neighborhoods, and that it is OK to spend to protect high-dollar houses, but inexpensive neighborhoods can make do with elevated or ugly roads, because after all, their values don't have as far to fall.

Noise walls do provide bang for the buck, but would they use them next to an elevated freeway?

[ENGcons]

Niche, people in this area already have good access to I-45, FM249, and US 290, it's called beltway 8. And the home value argument is retarded. So it is ok to lower the value of homes in Spring because they are not the same value in West U? And guess again on that price range, many of the houses that could be affected cost well over 300K. There is a neighborhood right on Boudreax that will either be right under the freeway, or relocated, but those homes are around $90K at the most so it's ok according to your logic.

And sound walls, those are a joke. If you actually think thse work go ask someone who has one in their backyard. Not to mention the three years of construction it will take to complete a section behind these neighborhoods that are already established.

[TheNiche]

Niche, people in this area already have good access to I-45, FM249, and US 290, it's called beltway 8. And the home value argument is retarded. So it is ok to lower the value of homes in Spring because they are not the same value in West U? And guess again on that price range, many of the houses that could be affected cost well over 300K. There is a neighborhood right on Boudreax that will either be right under the freeway, or relocated, but those homes are around $90K at the most so it's ok according to your logic.

And sound walls, those are a joke. If you actually think thse work go ask someone who has one in their backyard. Not to mention the three years of construction it will take to complete a section behind these neighborhoods that are already established.

Highway access could still be better.

There may be some $300k+ homes that would be adversely affected, but they are few in number.

And yes, I am suggesting that it is better policy to seek transportation alternatives that provide the best bang for the buck...and protecting $200,000 in value in Place A is more important than protecting $50,000 in value in Place B.

Soundwalls are better than nothing and are inexpensive...approximately commensurate with the economic value and subjective quality of most of the housing affected.