I'm protesting HCAD's Value of my home

[MarthaG]

My property taxes, like most of yours - I'm sure, have skyrocketed. In the past 5 years my tax value has increased 61%. This is suppose to be based on market value. I wish my market value was up 61%, but since I had my house on the market 2 years ago, I can assure that it not near what HCAD says it is.

I'm scheduled for a hearing on June 15. I need to get all my ducks in a row. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

When I requested the protest hearing, the reason I gave was that my Kitchen is not updated. My meaning is that I do not have new cabinets or granite countertops or pricey appliances. The last time my kitchen had a remodel job was 1970. This was a big draw back when trying to sell the house. Don't get me wrong, my kitchen is not "ugly" it's just not new like a lot of kitchens around me are.

I also noticed that my appraisal shows I have 4 bedrooms. I only have 3. I'm not sure where they got their information. I wonder if they are counting what use to be a bedroom, that now is the bathroom attached to the master bedroom.

I have a converted attic space which they show as approx 750 sq ft living space. Another argument I want to bring up is that attic space is not 100% living space. The ceilings are very slanted and there is only a hall wide (ok- wide hall wide) size walk way down the middle of the space where you can stand up. There are two very small bedrooms (no more than 10 x 10) a bathroom and this small space in the middle (no bigger than the bedrooms) that we call the game room. Trust me no room to play games. This was another draw back when trying to sell the house is that the upstairs is too small.

I have been doing comparions on other houses in the 3 block radius of my house and I think I am way over valued. What else do I need to be looking at or thinking about?

Thanks, Martha

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

My property taxes, like most of yours - I'm sure, have skyrocketed. In the past 5 years my tax value has increased 61%. This is suppose to be based on market value. I wish my market value was up 61%, but since I had my house on the market 2 years ago, I can assure that it not near what HCAD says it is.

I'm scheduled for a hearing on June 15. I need to get all my ducks in a row. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

When I requested the protest hearing, the reason I gave was that my Kitchen is not updated. My meaning is that I do not have new cabinets or granite countertops or pricey appliances. The last time my kitchen had a remodel job was 1970. This was a big draw back when trying to sell the house. Don't get me wrong, my kitchen is not "ugly" it's just not new like a lot of kitchens around me are.

I also noticed that my appraisal shows I have 4 bedrooms. I only have 3. I'm not sure where they got their information. I wonder if they are counting what use to be a bedroom, that now is the bathroom attached to the master bedroom.

I have a converted attic space which they show as approx 750 sq ft living space. Another argument I want to bring up is that attic space is not 100% living space. The ceilings are very slanted and there is only a hall wide (ok- wide hall wide) size walk way down the middle of the space where you can stand up. There are two very small bedrooms (no more than 10 x 10) a bathroom and this small space in the middle (no bigger than the bedrooms) that we call the game room. Trust me no room to play games. This was another draw back when trying to sell the house is that the upstairs is too small.

I have been doing comparions on other houses in the 3 block radius of my house and I think I am way over valued. What else do I need to be looking at or thinking about?

Thanks, Martha

I hear ya on the HCAD thing.... keep us posted as to how it goes...............

Im very INTERESTED

[musicman]

I understand and feel for you MarthaG.

If you've never done this, you'll be pissed by the time you leave. You end up seeing a single person and then if it isn't satisfactory, you go to a three person board with with another person representing HCAD.

A good friend of mine is a volunteer and she gave me some advice. She said take plenty of pics and mentioned that it doesn't have to be your house. They don't have the time to verify the pics either. One thing i did was get info off of the paid HAR site which showed the sales in my neighborhood. the site actually figures out the price per square ft. Then i took this figure and took my square footage and came up with a number.

I will say that it IS a legal proceeding and you are trying to convince the 3 members of the appraisal board why it is over appraised. then the hcad rep presents their side. I know when i went last yr they used data from a nearby neighborhood, not my neighborhood and I pointed that out repeatedly. You will be raising your voice because the HCAD reps were just like snakes.

the sad part is mine is 20k less than the surrounding homes so EVERY yr they want to raise it 10%.

I lost access to the paid HAR site, if anyone knows how to access it, i'll gladly take you to lunch!

[Parrothead]

Martha--we are in the EXACT same boat. We just received a notice in the mail with the percentage change in the past five years--ours is SIXTY-FIVE percent!!! Um, we had this thing on the market two years ago and....NO WAY is it even close to what they consider market value. We too are protesting. I expect there will not be a whole lot we can do until we sell this thing this summer and then they will really see how much their "market value" is off.

I just don't get it!

[MarthaG]

I got some advise from a friend today on what to take pictures of...

Cracked Drive Way (mine is very badly cracked)

Cyclone fencing (which I have on all sides except 1, where my neighbor just put up a new wood fence.

Any eyesores that may devalue my home. (There are some on the same street, not necessiarly next door or anything. I was thinking I'd take pictures of those dumps on Ella Blvd. You have to pass those to get to my house.)

Any problems with the garage. (My garage door is in very bad shape and there is some sagging on the garage roof.)

I'm going to remeasure my converted attic. I think they may have included the part that is mechanical (for the Heaters and other mechanical things). Wish I could find the blue prints from the remodel in 1999.

I'm going to take pictures of the cabinets in the kitchen and den that show they no longer line up. Think I can convince them there is slab damage?

Don't get me wrong, I do not want to be untruthful. I want to make sure they are aware of everything.

Anything else I might want to have pictures of?

[musicman]

Anything else I might want to have pictures of?

definitely get the slab damage. my dad used that one yr. i don't think the chain link will make ANY difference so i wouldn't waste my time gathering those pics.

also if you've had any termite damage. make sure and mention that.

[eketrioter]

A good presentation on HCAD protests ("PROTESTING PROPERTY TAX 101") prepared by someone in Woodland Heigths can be found at

http://www.woodland-heights.org/ (first link, upper left).

I've protested mine before, and just showing up seems to get you something. If you can demonstrate that their data is bad (which seems to be the case), you'll do well.

Would recommend focussing on HCAD errors and big items like the attic you mentioned....take some pictures (preferably with a 6'5" guy standing up there), demonstrating that it is not "up to code" (I believe 4' walls, 6'6" ceiling is code) and hence shouldn't be considered primary living space.

Good luck.

(P.S. Would be curious to see a picture....I'm thinking of finishing off my attic in a smiliar manner)

[TJones]

I got some advise from a friend today on what to take pictures of...

Cracked Drive Way (mine is very badly cracked)

Cyclone fencing (which I have on all sides except 1, where my neighbor just put up a new wood fence.

Any eyesores that may devalue my home. (There are some on the same street, not necessiarly next door or anything. I was thinking I'd take pictures of those dumps on Ella Blvd. You have to pass those to get to my house.)

Any problems with the garage. (My garage door is in very bad shape and there is some sagging on the garage roof.)

I'm going to remeasure my converted attic. I think they may have included the part that is mechanical (for the Heaters and other mechanical things). Wish I could find the blue prints from the remodel in 1999.

I'm going to take pictures of the cabinets in the kitchen and den that show they no longer line up. Think I can convince them there is slab damage?

Don't get me wrong, I do not want to be untruthful. I want to make sure they are aware of everything.

Anything else I might want to have pictures of?

Take pictures of the toxic chemical dumping grounds in your backyard. If you don't have one, make one. See if you can get a picture of a car up on blocks and try to get an angle where you house is not in the pic, and tell them that this will eventually be a planter in your frontlawn.

Seriously though, go take the pictures of the masterbath that is NOT a bedroom, and the pics of the kitchen, try to bring down the amount of square footage of your house also, by telling them that by converting the bedroom into a master bath, that you actually lost "livable" space. it looks like you are on the right path, and you will probably regain the deduction in value that you are seeking.

[jm1fd]

Take pictures of the toxic chemical dumping grounds in your backyard. If you don't have one, make one. See if you can get a picture of a car up on blocks and try to get an angle where you house is not in the pic, and tell them that this will eventually be a planter in your frontlawn.

Seriously though, go take the pictures of the masterbath that is NOT a bedroom, and the pics of the kitchen, try to bring down the amount of square footage of your house also, by telling them that by converting the bedroom into a master bath, that you actually lost "livable" space. it looks like you are on the right path, and you will probably regain the deduction in value that you are seeking.

Don't forget, if you decrease your HCAD sqare footage, it'll come back to bite you when you get ready to sell...99% of all MLS listings pull square footage from the HCAD numbers, and of course size as well as cost per square foot will be two of the major metrics that buyers are looking at.

[MarthaG]

Thanks to everyone who provided suggestions!

Seriously though, go take the pictures of the masterbath that is NOT a bedroom, and the pics of the kitchen, try to bring down the amount of square footage of your house also, by telling them that by converting the bedroom into a master bath, that you actually lost "livable" space. it looks like you are on the right path, and you will probably regain the deduction in value that you are seeking.

Here is the question I'm facing with the Master Bath. The area (pre-remodel) was a bedroom, bathroom, hallway, and 3 (small) closets. Now it's a bathroom with a walk in closet. Total Sq. Footage is 320. Is that really losing 320 sq ft of livable sq. ft.? Should I take pictures of the huge bathroom with me? But if I do not bring pictures (or blueprints) I have no way of explaining where the other bedroom went. Which is worth more, a bedroom or oversized bathroom?

[MarthaG]

A good presentation on HCAD protests ("PROTESTING PROPERTY TAX 101") prepared by someone in Woodland Heigths can be found at

http://www.woodland-heights.org/ (first link, upper left).

I've protested mine before, and just showing up seems to get you something. If you can demonstrate that their data is bad (which seems to be the case), you'll do well.

Would recommend focussing on HCAD errors and big items like the attic you mentioned....take some pictures (preferably with a 6'5" guy standing up there), demonstrating that it is not "up to code" (I believe 4' walls, 6'6" ceiling is code) and hence shouldn't be considered primary living space.

Good luck.

(P.S. Would be curious to see a picture....I'm thinking of finishing off my attic in a smiliar manner)

Thanks for the presentation... I'm printing it out now.

I measured the upstairs last night and as I figured, they included the non-livable parts. Actual sq. ft. is approx. 550. The wall on one side is not 4 ft. tall. I put a chair next to it and took a picture. I think the ceiling, in the middle anyway, is up to code. I'll send you some pictures when I get them and I'll be happy to answer any questions, or share blueprints. Getting the stairs in the right place was the biggest problem. Once I figured that out, the rest of the design upstairs was easy (and fun).

[jm1fd]

Thanks to everyone who provided suggestions!

Here is the question I'm facing with the Master Bath. The area (pre-remodel) was a bedroom, bathroom, hallway, and 3 (small) closets. Now it's a bathroom with a walk in closet. Total Sq. Footage is 320. Is that really losing 320 sq ft of livable sq. ft.? Should I take pictures of the huge bathroom with me? But if I do not bring pictures (or blueprints) I have no way of explaining where the other bedroom went. Which is worth more, a bedroom or oversized bathroom?

I'd say that taking a house from a 1 bathroom to a 2 bathroom is a much bigger value add than having an extra bedroom.

[lovett19]

My property taxes, like most of yours - I'm sure, have skyrocketed. In the past 5 years my tax value has increased 61%. This is suppose to be based on market value. I wish my market value was up 61%, but since I had my house on the market 2 years ago, I can assure that it not near what HCAD says it is.

I'm scheduled for a hearing on June 15. I need to get all my ducks in a row. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

When I requested the protest hearing, the reason I gave was that my Kitchen is not updated. My meaning is that I do not have new cabinets or granite countertops or pricey appliances. The last time my kitchen had a remodel job was 1970. This was a big draw back when trying to sell the house. Don't get me wrong, my kitchen is not "ugly" it's just not new like a lot of kitchens around me are.

I also noticed that my appraisal shows I have 4 bedrooms. I only have 3. I'm not sure where they got their information. I wonder if they are counting what use to be a bedroom, that now is the bathroom attached to the master bedroom.

I have a converted attic space which they show as approx 750 sq ft living space. Another argument I want to bring up is that attic space is not 100% living space. The ceilings are very slanted and there is only a hall wide (ok- wide hall wide) size walk way down the middle of the space where you can stand up. There are two very small bedrooms (no more than 10 x 10) a bathroom and this small space in the middle (no bigger than the bedrooms) that we call the game room. Trust me no room to play games. This was another draw back when trying to sell the house is that the upstairs is too small.

I have been doing comparions on other houses in the 3 block radius of my house and I think I am way over valued. What else do I need to be looking at or thinking about?

Thanks, Martha

Martha,

I successfully protested my appraisal last year. I would advise you to find a Realtor with FULL access to the MLS database. Ask him/her if they would print out some "comps" for you (homes comparable to yours that have recently sold in your neighborhood). If they have full access to the MLS, they will be able to print out the final selling price of those comps. My presentation to HCAD consisted of 3 comps that proved my appraisal was about $40K overvalued. The HCAD rep agreed with me, and I was in/out of there in 15 minutes. Mine is a best case scenario - and I wish you the same luck on the 15th!!

[MarthaG]

Today was the hearing. It was extremely easy and well worth the time spent. Eventhough I did not prepare as much as I could have, I still shaved $19K (a little more than 10%) off the market value of my home.

Here is how it went.... I arrived at the HCAD building at 1:30 for my 1:45 appointment. My name was called about 2:10. (They were packed but things were moving fast.) I followed the gentleman to his cubical and he asked me what I thought the value of my home was. I told him I thought $187K. He asked what I had to back that up and I presented a very basic comparison spreadsheet showing my house and 2 others that had sold in my neighborhood in the past year that were basically same size. He did some searching on his computer then said he "suggested" $189K. I then said I'd like to show some pictures. I showed him how the Kitchen is 30 yrs old and cabinets do not line up perfectly, and the fact that the wall height in the attic converstion is only 3.5ft (to which he said does not matter - still considered livable space) and the garage is in bad shape and needs to be knocked down and rebuilt. He asked if I had a estimate to have the garable redone. I did not (no time to do this). He said I could go to the next step, but he could reduce to $189K and I could go home. I agreed. I left the driveway at 2:30pm. I hour time saved approx $600 in taxes... Not bad!

Thanks to everyone that gave suggestions and information.

[Mr. Smarts]

Today was the hearing. It was extremely easy and well worth the time spent. Eventhough I did not prepare as much as I could have, I still shaved $19K (a little more than 10%) off the market value of my home.

Here is how it went.... I arrived at the HCAD building at 1:30 for my 1:45 appointment. My name was called about 2:10. (They were packed but things were moving fast.) I followed the gentleman to his cubical and he asked me what I thought the value of my home was. I told him I thought $187K. He asked what I had to back that up and I presented a very basic comparison spreadsheet showing my house and 2 others that had sold in my neighborhood in the past year that were basically same size. He did some searching on his computer then said he "suggested" $189K. I then said I'd like to show some pictures. I showed him how the Kitchen is 30 yrs old and cabinets do not line up perfectly, and the fact that the wall height in the attic converstion is only 3.5ft (to which he said does not matter - still considered livable space) and the garage is in bad shape and needs to be knocked down and rebuilt. He asked if I had a estimate to have the garable redone. I did not (no time to do this). He said I could go to the next step, but he could reduce to $189K and I could go home. I agreed. I left the driveway at 2:30pm. I hour time saved approx $600 in taxes... Not bad!

Thanks to everyone that gave suggestions and information.

thanks for the update. very well worth it.

I thought those hearing where in a place with an "audience." Much less intimidating the way you say it is.

[jm1fd]

Today was the hearing. It was extremely easy and well worth the time spent. Eventhough I did not prepare as much as I could have, I still shaved $19K (a little more than 10%) off the market value of my home.

LOL. If they reduced your market value, and left your appraised value alone, then you didn't save a dime in taxes.

[RedScare]

I had my hearing today. I too, was able to work it out with the informal hearing, as opposed to going before the board. I had photographs of my 1920 bungalow, showing no renovations have been performed, and I showed a pic of my termite infested garage. I then showed some photos of nearby homes roughly the size of mine, that actually looked better, but were appraised less.

In the Heights, you'll probably get nowhere arguing about land value. Every lot is the same value per square foot. So, your best argument is the value of the structure. Interestingly, the appraiser had a hard time finding any Heights homes that had no renovations to compare to mine (I guess I am a cheapass). In the end, he went with the houses I suggested, and agreed to my suggested value, knocking $34K off of my appraised value.

Went quickly, like MarthaG. In and out in 40 minutes.

[MarthaG]

LOL. If they reduced your market value, and left your appraised value alone, then you didn't save a dime in taxes.

Good point...but actualy my market value and appraised value are the same.

Congrats Red...

[Pumapayam]

What else do I need to be looking at or thinking about?

Thanks, Martha

Bring photos of your own home, look for damage, like cracked foundations and termites, those go along way too.

Look for photos of kitchens in your neighbor's home too that are priced in your "zone"

good luck.

They are pretty easy going and will let you have your way, just be realistic with the deduction you want.

[Sleepy Owl]

I successfully protested my appraisal this week.

My house is 4 years old and has severe structural issues...a cracked slab, cracks in sheet rock, doors and windows that don't line up, flooring separating from the trim, etc.

The key is having an overwhelming amount of evidence. I had about 10-15 large color photos. I then showed him a report from a structural engineer, including maps that the engineer drew of all the damage in the slab. The thing that was MOST useful though was the estimate for repairs that I had. I just called a foundation repair company (Atlas) and had them give me an estimate of what it would take to repair.

In the end, all he did was take the amount of all my estimates and subtract it from the appraised value.

If you don't have any damage, my suggestion is to find a neighbor with a similarly sized home that has a lower appraisal. That's what I did for my girlfriend's protest, which we also won.

Best wishes...

[rocketgirl24]

I successfully protested the market value of my Heights-area home down $15K, and thanks to all who posted because reading this helped me prepare (at the last minute, of course...). I brought with me pictures of my home to show where damage existed that certainly no one would pay market value for; that and the quote for the A/C replacement I need moved his initial offer of 10K off the market value up to 15K.

I also brought comparisons of comparable homes on my street, but that didn't help at all because I bought the home last year, so he argued that the market value should stand.

All in all, the proof that the structure was devalued because of the condition of the home made all the difference, and I wish I had worked with a contractor to get an updated quote of costs to repair, which might have gotten me a little more than 15K off.

Thanks again to all the previous people who have posted. You helped me a great deal!

[KatieDidIt]

I protested every year and kept our 60's ranch the lowest on the street...when it actually had the most improvements. On average I got it down 30-40,000. One year I pulled it down 150,000.

Take pictures of ALL the things wrong with the home and pair them with a CONTRACTOR estimate on what it will cost to fix.

That is the key.

All homes need a fix or two, make your problems your argument. Remember to present your argument in a professional and neat folder, perhaps prepared by Kinkos or the like. Add photos of all the BEST homes in your neighborhood...then put your house's picture next to it.

Now how they determine the land value of side by side lots being so ratically different with the same dimensions I'll never know.

[jm1fd]

I also brought comparisons of comparable homes on my street, but that didn't help at all because I bought the home last year, so he argued that the market value should stand.

This kind of crap irks the hell out of me. The law says that your taxes should be based on market value, and with such a recent purchase, you've clearly established market value...its not like the 'hood went on the slide in the year after you bought it, its not like the A/C unit got old and decrepit in a year's time, and its not like the house fell apart in the year that you had the house either. Why would the appraisial district allow discounts when the market value is so very clearly established?

I'm protesting my taxes this year as well, but all I'm going to ask for is to bring them down to what I actually paid for the house.

[rocketgirl24]

This kind of crap irks the hell out of me. The law says that your taxes should be based on market value, and with such a recent purchase, you've clearly established market value...its not like the 'hood went on the slide in the year after you bought it, its not like the A/C unit got old and decrepit in a year's time, and its not like the house fell apart in the year that you had the house either. Why would the appraisial district allow discounts when the market value is so very clearly established?

I'm protesting my taxes this year as well, but all I'm going to ask for is to bring them down to what I actually paid for the house.

funny enough, it did fall apart in about 1 month's time after close. The inspector said the a/c was in great shape, but 3 a/c companies and plenty of >$300 electric bills later (for a 1200 sqft home), I learn that it's a shoddy piece of work that's never been maintained and is better off being replaced. The above-ground pool in the backyard split open just 2 weeks after close, and began a great project of tearing down all the deck and related structures that were built up around the pool. So we went from a beautiful backyard oasis to a cesspool in about 1 month's time, and those pictures were the strongest arguement for the drop in value. backyard pics got me a 10K drop, and the a/c replacement estimate of work got me the other 5K. so selling price do not always reflect market value, as my example shows.

[Pumapayam]

To add, I just got back from mine about 2 weeks ago.

Bring quotes of potential repairs that are signed and dated too.

[karlpopper]

My property taxes, like most of yours - I'm sure, have skyrocketed. In the past 5 years my tax value has increased 61%. This is suppose to be based on market value. I wish my market value was up 61%, but since I had my house on the market 2 years ago, I can assure that it not near what HCAD says it is.

I'm scheduled for a hearing on June 15. I need to get all my ducks in a row. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

When I requested the protest hearing, the reason I gave was that my Kitchen is not updated. My meaning is that I do not have new cabinets or granite countertops or pricey appliances. The last time my kitchen had a remodel job was 1970. This was a big draw back when trying to sell the house. Don't get me wrong, my kitchen is not "ugly" it's just not new like a lot of kitchens around me are.

I also noticed that my appraisal shows I have 4 bedrooms. I only have 3. I'm not sure where they got their information. I wonder if they are counting what use to be a bedroom, that now is the bathroom attached to the master bedroom.

I have a converted attic space which they show as approx 750 sq ft living space. Another argument I want to bring up is that attic space is not 100% living space. The ceilings are very slanted and there is only a hall wide (ok- wide hall wide) size walk way down the middle of the space where you can stand up. There are two very small bedrooms (no more than 10 x 10) a bathroom and this small space in the middle (no bigger than the bedrooms) that we call the game room. Trust me no room to play games. This was another draw back when trying to sell the house is that the upstairs is too small.

I have been doing comparions on other houses in the 3 block radius of my house and I think I am way over valued. What else do I need to be looking at or thinking about?

Thanks, Martha

Go to the website below for some invaluable information and real time valuation data which may assist you in winning your case.

http://www.voxproperty.com/cgi-bin/school_...?default_mode=1

[pineda]

I don't know about that website, Karl.

I just put in my subdivision in Spring and it listed all the closest schools as ones from Cy-Fair!

[jm1fd]

I don't know about that website, Karl.

I just put in my subdivision in Spring and it listed all the closest schools as ones from Cy-Fair!

Yeah. It has some issues. It appears that it is missing Shepherd Forest Section 1.

Its also kinda funny to advertise RE values as real time. The RE market moves pretty slow (compared to say equities trading), information once a day should be more than plenty.

[musicman]

do you still have to bring 5 copies of everything when you protest? i read paperwork and didn't see that. i'm actually going tomorrow morning.

[Pumapayam]

do you still have to bring 5 copies of everything when you protest? i read paperwork and didn't see that. i'm actually going tomorrow morning.

Not at all, they can share, they all sit at a square table in a small conference room.

Bring a jacket, it is usually cold!