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Why Is Iran "Unstable"?


nmm

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Talking to some dudes in the library. Finals next week. We were discussing politics and one mentioned the reason we are prohibiting Iran nuclear technology is because they are "unstable".

Come again?

Unstable? How So?

Whats unstable about Iran?

Dont watch the news or read the papers much eh?

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Whats unstable about Iran?

You know, we all act like we know why Iran is such a threat, but to be honest, if asked on the spot, I could only give vague references. I too would like someone more educated on the subject to share some reasons why.

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You know, we all act like we know why Iran is such a threat, but to be honest, if asked on the spot, I could only give vague references. I too would like someone more educated on the subject to share some reasons why.

The current interest in Iran is due to their program that develops enriched uranium supposedly for fuel purposes (nuclear pwr plant). the level of enrichment determines whether it is fuel grade or weapons grade. I believe that as the result of a past war, Iran promised NOT to have a uranium program. France, England and Germany believe as well that Iran wants to use this for nuclear weapon development. of course, they could easy be reached my a mid range missile of sorts. Because of their involvement, the US is backing them up. With the current mid east situation, it just adds to the anxiety. I think the UN is also concerned and wants sanctions against, Iran whose leader doesn't care. I think china is backing up the Iranians and with their power UN vote will veto sanctions. at this point russia is against sanctions too i believe but wants the UN to make the call of whether they are needed.

If anyone can add to this please do cause i'd like to know more myself.

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I think it's the Iranis who are unstable.

I am sure the Iranians think the Americans are unstable too.

Dont watch the news or read the papers much eh?

Nah, i do. But i never got anything about Iranian instability.

The only reason i think Americans think Iran is "unstable" is because of the Iran-Contra fiasco back in the 80's; and the Irani-Islamic Revolution that ousted the unpopular American backed dictator Reza Shah, in place of a theocratic goverment that the nation favored.

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Run by a theocracy that has vowed to wipe another nation (Israel) off the planet.

When relative moderates get into the president's post they're cowed into taking extreme positions by the religious leaders who actually run the country, or else face a violent and untimely removal from office.

Is well known as a funding source for terrorists. This isn't some CIA-spread rumor. The Iranian government isn't bashful about it.

Has been known to take Americans hostage. Remember the whole Iranian Hostage Crisis 1979-1981? Students don't take an embassy hostage for three years without help from above.

Fought an eight-year war with Iraq that didn't go very well. They were on the receiving end of some of Saddam's WMD's.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if I did a little research, I'd come up with something more compelling.

The CIA capsule reads thusly:

Known as Persia until 1935, Iran became an Islamic republic in 1979 after the ruling monarchy was overthrown and the shah was forced into exile. Conservative clerical forces established a theocratic system of government with ultimate political authority nominally vested in a learned religious scholar. Iranian-US relations have been strained since a group of Iranian students seized the US Embassy in Tehran on 4 November 1979 and held it until 20 January 1981. During 1980-88, Iran fought a bloody, indecisive war with Iraq that eventually expanded into the Persian Gulf and led to clashes between US Navy and Iranian military forces between 1987-1988. Iran has been designated a state sponsor of terrorism for its activities in Lebanon and elsewhere in the world and remains subject to US economic sanctions and export controls because of its continued involvement. Following the elections of a reformist president and Majlis in the late 1990s, attempts to foster political reform in response to popular dissatisfaction floundered as conservative politicians prevented reform measures from being enacted, increased repressive measures, and made electoral gains against reformers. Parliamentary elections in 2004 and the August 2005 inauguration of a conservative stalwart as president, completed the reconsolidation of conservative power in Iran's government.

Also worth noting: 2,000,000 drug addicts in a nation of only 68,000,000 people. And money laundering isn't illegal there.

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The only reason i think Americans think Iran is "unstable" is because of the Iran-Contra fiasco back in the 80's; and the Irani-Islamic Revolution that ousted the unpopular American backed dictator Reza Shah, in place of a theocratic goverment that the nation favored.
I would venture to say that there are a number of additional reasons Americans believe Iranis are unstable
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The current interest in Iran is due to their program that develops enriched uranium supposedly for fuel purposes (nuclear pwr plant). the level of enrichment determines whether it is fuel grade or weapons grade. I believe that as the result of a past war, Iran promised NOT to have a uranium program. France, England and Germany believe as well that Iran wants to use this for nuclear weapon development. of course, they could easy be reached my a mid range missile of sorts. Because of their involvement, the US is backing them up. With the current mid east situation, it just adds to the anxiety. I think the UN is also concerned and wants sanctions against, Iran whose leader doesn't care. I think china is backing up the Iranians and with their power UN vote will veto it. at this point russia is against sanctions too i believe but wants the UN to make the call of whether they are needed.

If anyone can add to this please do cause i'd like to know more myself.

YES there are anti-goverment sentiments, but i would characterize it as the anti-Bush sentiments you have in America today - with polls running at 30% approval/70% dissaproval. Say, if Russia decided to attack the US believeing Russian invasion will be 'welcomed' based on these poll numbers - they would be dead wrong.

You would cause a "rallying effect" around the leader.

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AHA!

Word is (from back home) that Iran, and the Middle East in general, are running out of oil. At current consumption rates plus the rise of China/Russia/India/SE Asia, the Ay-rabs realized they need another source of energy on the double.

Hence the enrichment of uranium for powerplants. Hence the comment by Ahmedininjabi that oil is being priced lower then it should be. Hence the move from oil-based economies to mixed economies in Riyadh, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and Doha.

And no doubt the Arabs/Persians feel threatened by Israel's nuclear warheads and other nuclear capabilities. Its in their national interest to develop nuclear technology, if thats what they hope for in the long run.

I will tell yeah, if the US wanted backing from the Iranian populace on an attack on their own nation, they should have picked a better reason. They should have given another lame pretense to attack Iran, rather the current one.

The Iranian people are:

(a) not dumb

(B) fully able to realize that nuclear technology is in the interest of their nation, and America wants to take that away from them

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Run by a theocracy that has vowed to wipe another nation (Israel) off the planet.

When relative moderates get into the president's post they're cowed into taking extreme positions by the religious leaders who actually run the country, or else face a violent and untimely removal from office.

Is well known as a funding source for terrorists. This isn't some CIA-spread rumor. The Iranian government isn't bashful about it.

Has been known to take Americans hostage. Remember the whole Iranian Hostage Crisis 1979-1981? Students don't take an embassy hostage for three years without help from above.

Fought an eight-year war with Iraq that didn't go very well. They were on the receiving end of some of Saddam's WMD's.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if I did a little research, I'd come up with something more compelling.

Also worth noting: 2,000,000 drug addicts in a nation of only 68,000,000 people. And money laundering isn't illegal there.

The American Hostage thing was something you should look up. Not exactly the fact that they took Americans hostage, rather what caused them to direct their anger at Americans, rather then say Chinese, French, or Somalians.

The statement "They hate us because of our freedom." is complete BS. Dont you swallow that. If you want a beginning timeline of Middle Eastern animosity towards the West, i would start in the late 1700s. If you want to learn more about Irani animosity towards America, i would look around the 1940s-1960s.

How does going to war with Iraq make a country unstable? Did going to war in Vietnam, and losing, mark America as an "unstable" nation for all eternity?

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Honestly, if these are the reasons most Americans think "Iranis" are unstable . . . . .

1. The theocracy is more or less favored by culture and society. Middle East countries traditionally have been ruled by some sort of state religion or another. Whether it was Zoroastrianism, Mazdakism, or Islam. Just because the West has had bad experiences with religion, doesnt mean the rest of the world did too. Looking at this thing from another person's shoes really helps.

It is probably reasonable to assume that the younger population wants a "less extremist" society to live in, but i doubt they wholeheartedly favor living in a secular society, except for patches here and there.

Coincidentally, many Americans want America to be more "conservative" on issues like abortion, family values, entertainment, etc. Doesnt mean America is "unstable".

2. The American Hostage thing was something you should look up. Not exactly the fact that they took Americans hostage, rather what caused them to direct their anger at Americans, rather then say Chinese, French, or Somalians.

The statement "They hate us because of our freedom." is complete BS. Dont you swallow that. If you want a beginning timeline of Middle Eastern animosity towards the West, i would start in the late 1700s. If you want to learn more about Irani animosity towards America, i would look around the 1940s-1960s.

3. How does going to war with Iraq make a country unstable? Did going to war in Vietnam, and losing, mark America as an "unstable" nation for all eternity?

How old are you? Vietnam was spared because "tricky dick" got caught with his hands in the cookie jar. Saudi Arabia stands today because "tricky dick" got caught with his hands in the cookie jar............theres a Saudi-Iran-Russia-Afghanistan-America connection there...........

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Ive got news for you............. If and when Iran achieves the bomb, there will not be an opportunity for guerilla warfare, the entire ball game will change. It will not be like what you are seeing in Iraq or Afghanistan, this you can take to the bank.........

If you think they are running out of oil because of increased usage by China,then perhaps you believe in kosher hogs or heavenly devils. They are not required to sell thier oil to anyone. If we drop the ball on this one, this country and the western world may soon after regret it...........

They are getting the bomb because they are concerned by Israels nuclear weapons? May i ask your age? Do you know how long Israel has had nuclear weapons? Do you know how many times they have been attacked over the years, most of which were years that Israel posessed nukes. They have never used them!

Tell me another one...........

Yes, you may. But i wont tell. :rolleyes:

Iran is selling oil because it has to survive. Its going to continue selling its oil until it runs out. Thats like saying GM doesnt have to sell their automobiles. They do, if they want to survive.

Secondly, they ARE worried about Israel's nuclear capabilities, whether or not the news media reports it here. To that part of the world, Public Enemy number one is Israel, number two: America. You can argue all day why they shouldnt be afraid of Israel, but in the end they are.

I suppose it comes from the same reasoning as the US/Vietnam War. Why would the USA go to war against Vietnam? How would Vietnam ever be a threat to America? In the end, it was about national interests.

I dont know why Iran is afraid of Israel, but i do know for certain that they are indeed afraid. And just the fact that their percieved enemy has WMDs that they dont, is enough to get the ball rolling.

What happens if Israel does use their nukes? Who gets blamed for it in the end? The Irani goverment will face a backlash from their own people if they dont take all measures in securing protection for the populace.

------------

And these constant threats of "the ballgame will change" - theres probably a reason why you went into the army, and not into politics. There is a thing called Cause and Effect. If you change the ballgame, expect the otherside to do so as well.

What are the implications of such an attack on Iran? Do you think the rest of the world will tolerate such an attack? Iran played the game wise by getting China and Russia on its side. Do you want to gain China's animosity? What about the Shiah population of Iraq? The only ones who favor the American invasion, do you want them anti-American? What about OPEC? How would it react to an attack on one of its member nations? Seeing that 10 of the 11 OPEC nations are Muslim dominated, you dont expect riots and boycotts against selling oil to America?

How old are you? Vietnam was spared because "tricky dick" got caught with his hands in the cookie jar. Saudi Arabia stands today because "tricky dick" got caught with his hands in the cookie jar............theres a Saudi-Iran-Russia-Afghanistan-America connection there...........

Vietnam was a losing war. In the end, the North one. This is understood.

I am not well versed with American politics of that time, but i do know the war was unpopular in America. It was a failed war.

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Yes, you may. But i wont tell. :rolleyes:

Iran is selling oil because it has to survive. Its going to continue selling its oil until it runs out. Thats like saying GM doesnt have to sell their automobiles. They do, if they want to survive.

Secondly, they ARE worried about Israel's nuclear capabilities, whether or not the news media reports it here. To that part of the world, Public Enemy number one is Israel, number two: America. You can argue all day why they shouldnt be afraid of Israel, but in the end they are.

I suppose it comes from the same reasoning as the US/Vietnam War. Why would the USA go to war against Vietnam? How would Vietnam ever be a threat to America? In the end, it was about national interests.

I dont know why Iran is afraid of Israel, but i do know for certain that they are indeed afraid. And just the fact that their percieved enemy has WMDs that they dont, is enough to get the ball rolling.

What happens if Israel does use their nukes? Who gets blamed for it in the end? The Irani goverment will face a backlash from their own people if they dont take all measures in securing protection for the populace.

------------

And these constant threats of "the ballgame will change" - theres probably a reason why you went into the army, and not into politics. There is a thing called Cause and Effect. If you change the ballgame, expect the otherside to do so as well.

What are the implications of such an attack on Iran? Do you think the rest of the world will tolerate such an attack? Iran played the game wise by getting China and Russia on its side. Do you want to gain China's animosity? What about the Shiah population of Iraq? The only ones who favor the American invasion, do you want them anti-American? What about OPEC? How would it react to an attack on one of its member nations? Seeing that 10 of the 11 OPEC nations are Muslim dominated, you dont expect riots and boycotts against selling oil to America?

Lets go a little further, Iran and every single mid-eastern country should be terrified of Israel. After all we all know that Israel has repeatedly attacked them over the years, through multiple invasions and has attempted to drive them into the sea........The world also knows how Israel has used profits gained from thier vast multi-billion dollar oil sales to fund terrorist groups and pay the families of suicide bombers when they attack all mid-east countries. The world knows how in Israels houses of worship, its being taught to young males mainly between the ages of 14-25 to strap bombs on them selves and go into the streets of mid-east nations and detonate themselves killing themselves as well as many others as possible on the promise of 72 virgins in heaven......... :wacko::wacko::wacko:

As far as OPEC, its up to you but,you may like to read the Nixon papers that have been declassified for sometime now....i recommend it, its very interesting reading...............

Also, i was not in the Army :):):):):):)

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You know, we all act like we know why Iran is such a threat, but to be honest, if asked on the spot, I could only give vague references. I too would like someone more educated on the subject to share some reasons why.

My God man ! Have you never seen the Nostrodamus movie ? Iran will launch Nukes in a heartbeat. :D

I am sure the Iranians think the Americans are unstable too.

Nah, i do. But i never got anything about Iranian instability.

The only reason i think Americans think Iran is "unstable" is because of the Iran-Contra fiasco back in the 80's; and the Irani-Islamic Revolution that ousted the unpopular American backed dictator Reza Shah, in place of a theocratic goverment that the nation favored.

Have you ever heard of Radical Jihadist Muslims ? Ok, imagine a whole country full of them with a leader who is pretty much the equivalent to Charles Manson with a deathwish for Martyrdom. THAT is why Iran is unstable. The new President of Iran is worse than the Ayatollah. This guy doesn't believe that the Holocaust happened during WWII. So, he wants to take a tour of the Auschwitz facilities and wants an expert on it to show him just HOW the Germans were so efficient in executing the Jews and others. He is not doing this to learn some history, he is doing this to learn how to set up his own camps for his own country's genocide. I tell you the truth, the man is a loon. <_<:blink:

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This is the same guy who held a parade in Tehran in February where 30,000 young "martyrs" paraded through the city with explosives strapped to their chests. He said they're ready to strike Western targets at a moment's notice.

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When I hear of an "unstable" nation, I think of a country who's government can't enforce the laws, the leaders are disorganized, and the country's on the brink of a regime-change attempt. I don't see Iran as a country that fits that profile. The country seems on the same page, and the government seems under control.

"Unstable" sounds to me like Venezuela almost two years ago, prior to Chavez's political recovery, or maybe Sudan prior to the peace agreement with the rebels.

What's the true definition of an unstable nation?

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I think what he said that he didn't know if the Holocaust occurred, but if it did, European countries should make ammends by creating a Jewish state in Germany.

The part about where he said "myth" doesn't seem to agree with the other stuff that he said. I think something was translated wrong.

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He's been saying the "myth" thing for quite a while now. That would have to be a heck of a lot of mis-translations.

For those who are curious, when the president of Iran talks the big news American organizations have their own translators do a translation. That translation is then compared to the official Iranian translation provided by the Iranian government to check for discrepancies. I've only ever heard of them not matching once -- that was with CNN about six weeks ago, and CNN fixed the error quickly.

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Have you ever heard of Radical Jihadist Muslims ? Ok, imagine a whole country full of them with a leader who is pretty much the equivalent to Charles Manson with a deathwish for Martyrdom. THAT is why Iran is unstable. The new President of Iran is worse than the Ayatollah. This guy doesn't believe that the Holocaust happened during WWII. So, he wants to take a tour of the Auschwitz facilities and wants an expert on it to show him just HOW the Germans were so efficient in executing the Jews and others. He is not doing this to learn some history, he is doing this to learn how to set up his own camps for his own country's genocide. I tell you the truth, the man is a loon. <_<:blink:

Alot of your statements about Charles Manson, and concentration camps, and all that other crazy ____ your ballyhooing about is unfounded. Simply unfounded. As for asking questions about the Holocaust, my opinion is:

(1) He is trying to incite Israel - whom the rest of the Middle East views as a threat.

(2) He sincerely thinks the Holocaust was a fake. In which case he isnt any better then you in that both of you can make stupid statements without thinking.

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Lets go a little further, Iran and every single mid-eastern country should be terrified of Israel. After all we all know that Israel has repeatedly attacked them over the years, through multiple invasions and has attempted to drive them into the sea........The world also knows how Israel has used profits gained from thier vast multi-billion dollar oil sales to fund terrorist groups and pay the families of suicide bombers when they attack all mid-east countries. The world knows how in Israels houses of worship, its being taught to young males mainly between the ages of 14-25 to strap bombs on them selves and go into the streets of mid-east nations and detonate themselves killing themselves as well as many others as possible on the promise of 72 virgins in heaven......... :wacko::wacko::wacko:

As far as OPEC, its up to you but,you may like to read the Nixon papers that have been declassified for sometime now....i recommend it, its very interesting reading...............

Actually there is much Israel has done to incite its neighbors. First of all, was its birth where they came in and established a nation over other people's lands. Keep in mind that Jews, Christians, and Muslims used to live in relative peace before the creation of this nation state.

You mention that Arab states fund terrorist groups via oil money. Israel funds military operations through Western aid, i believe 25% of America's foreign aid goes to Israel. Weapons to blow up people with, guns, airplanes, the whole bit. Not to mention, Western intelligence aids Israeli operations.

http://www.washington-report.org/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html

As for telling people to blow themselves up. Overall, the riots you see in the Muslim World are an effect of ill-education, desperation, and anger. Theres also a bit of innocence, but when you see your dad being shot to death by Israeli guardsmen and having your mothers and sisters being bulldozed to death like Rachel Corrie.

http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,916299,00.html

So, while i dont appreciate suicide bombings, i do understand the way their human psychology is perverted from the norm. I understand how desperation, poverty, illiteracy can lead people to believe they should blow themselves up for God.

Israel, the UK, and America secretly colloborated against Egypt after Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal. After declaring war on Egypt, the three of them were exposed and faced international condemnation.

There were periods of aggression against Palestinan civilians to make way for Israel. Especially in the beginnings of its statehood. And that it continues to encroach land away from Palestinians.

Moreoever Israel defies multiple UN resolutions and continues to do so. But when Muslim countries do the same, the world expects them to bend over backwards to comply with the resolutions? The Hypocrisy breeds the hate.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2...1068469,00.html

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2...tent_350420.htm

http://www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/pa....dailyiowan.com

http://www.counterpunch.org/cook01252003.html

http://iticwebarchives.ssrc.org/Z%20Mag/ww...=22&ItemID=3049

Lastly, its funny how we tolerate Israeli aggression on Americans and/or American Military, and say nothing of it. But when a speedboat off the coast of Yemen carrying smalltime explosives blows a whole in an American Battleship, we raise hell.

http://www.ussliberty.org/

http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...ry/liberty.html

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ussliberty.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

In the end, i dont give a damn about Palestine in particular. To me, its a piece of dirt a few hundred miles West of where my parents came from; and the otherside of the globe from where i was born and raised (chicago/newark). Nevertheless, its always good to see both sides of the same thing. Ive been having to see everything from four perspectives all my life. Its natural for me.

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This is the same guy who held a parade in Tehran in February where 30,000 young "martyrs" paraded through the city with explosives strapped to their chests. He said they're ready to strike Western targets at a moment's notice.

Yeah, but they cant. These are just stupid threats made by Iran into scaring the general American population.

Lets not forget Bush + Co. said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction which they never did. Then Saddam supported Osama which is a funny joke that belongs in the comics section of the Houston Chronicle. Lastly they faked the Downing Street Memo to justify aggresion on Iraq. I believe these lies are at par with Ahmedninjabis statements about the Holocaust.

Why? Because they were both lies.

And no, the international community doesnt care how many soldiers died. No one cares about American soldiers, no one cares about Iraqi soldiers, or Spanish soldiers, or Korean soldiers, or the Islamic Rebel Extremists fringe groups or the Kurdish National Army, or the Taliban.

What they do care about is this:

vic121205.jpg

So if making false statements are a measure of a nations instability, then America is as much to blame as Iran.

At the least, when Iran says stupid ____, no one dies as a result.

But when the Bush Administration creates false reasons for war (going so far as creating fake reports and knowingly lying to their otherwise sheep-like populace) so that its own population can feed oil into their obnoxioulsy sized autovehicles (which usually contains one passanger on weekdays) at $0.75 less then they are supposed to, we conveniently look over it because its in our national interest.

nice.

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You and the rest of Islam dont give a damn about Palestine. Only reason its an issue is because of the hatred for Israel and the jewish people. Do not attempt to teach false history here, do a little reading. Can anyone in the Islamic nations even find Israel on a map? As far as i know, its banned from being printed on maps in the peace loving freedom protecting Islamic nations.

Israel taking other peoples land................

the next thing you will tell us is that hogs are kosher

or this one that i have been hearing lately...Jesus was a Palestinian

or this one, the Palestinians are not arabs

or this one, Iran is a peace loving country that loves America.........

I have not forgotten the images on television of people in some of those countries cheering and dancing in the streets handing out candy to children on Sept. 11...celebrating the day the "great satan, United States" was attacked.

freindly peace loving Iran........

When I hear of an "unstable" nation, I think of a country who's government can't enforce the laws, the leaders are disorganized, and the country's on the brink of a regime-change attempt. I don't see Iran as a country that fits that profile. The country seems on the same page, and the government seems under control.

"Unstable" sounds to me like Venezuela almost two years ago, prior to Chavez's political recovery, or maybe Sudan prior to the peace agreement with the rebels.

What's the true definition of an unstable nation?

Im starting to wonder about you...................

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But id like to add, you as an individual arent as different as your counterparts on the other side of the world that you claim to hate. The both of you: simple minded, nationalistic, acting through emotions rather then reason, jingoistic.

hmmmm. . . . . :wub:

You are funny...........

Thank you for being up front, its most appreciated :):)

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Im starting to wonder about you...................

What's there to wonder? I asked a simple question: What is the definition by other HAIF members of what an "unstable" nation is? And I asked that because I think there's more than one interpretation on this forum of the word "unstable", so that definition would have to be clarified prior to judging if Iran or any other nation is "unstable" or not.

I'm a dude that asks questions, takes the facts as I find'em, and am not shy about saying that I, djvlawrence, am ignorant. I'm not god. I don't know everything about the world 100%, and if I want to know more, I'm not afraid of an open question.

Also, what were the world reactions on September 11th that night? Who was celebrating the attacks, and was there any world mourning shown on the news? Only thing I recall from friends was that a lot of world leaders were condemning the attacks. I didn't see any of it.

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It is probably reasonable to assume that the younger population wants a "less extremist" society to live in, but i doubt they wholeheartedly favor living in a secular society, except for patches here and there.

i read, some time ago, an article which stated that the majority of the population in iran is under 40 and has no love lost on the extremist regime they live under. i'm sure that this is a key factor in the "instability" of iran.

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