Getting a new arena

[DJ V Lawrence]

some of those stadiums that were listed are 80 years old. they have something called history, and charm, and mystique, and all that crap. that is why they haven't replaced them. It's just too hard to walk away from Fenway Park. It's hard to walk away from Wrigley Field, and Yankee stadium.

30-40 years is the ideal time. A lot changes then.

Look at the cookie cutter stadiums of the 60s and 70s. I'm talking about Busch Stadium, Three Rivers Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, Veterens Stadium, Jack Murphy Stadium, Fulton County Stadium, The Kingdome. They were all the rage. They could be used for football, and baseball.

You fast forward to the mid-90s and these stadiums suck ass compared to Camden Yards, or Jacobs Field.

the owners will figure some way to draw more money from a stadium in 40 years.

Yo, TheNiche, cool down bro

To da KAM, "history" is the excuse those cities have for telling people to keep going to their stadiums, but the fact remains that they all want to move or refurbish their stadiums partially with taxpayer dollars. Yankee Stadium is about to get replaced. Fenway Park is still working on their plans for a new stadium. Wrigley Field is literally falling apart, so it's gotta get constantly renovated for safety reasons. But if history really was a factor, Tiger Stadium and the Astrodome would still be played in today. I really enjoyed watching games in the Dome, but I think I was one in a minority there

Though I don't agree with Plastic's 15-25 year time table, I do think it's smart of Plastic to mention money for future stadiums. In 30 years, I will be 53. At that time, I'd like to see more taxpayer money go to my children's schools. And there's no question the sports owners of tomorrow will ask for new facilities for stadiums. It's inevitable. Might as well make money available for the future for it, and make the future's money go toward whatever the city needs to improve way of life. And we KNOW it will happen, too. It's not like Houston's residents in the 1960's ever thought the Astrodome would not have a sports team 40 years later.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Plastic, the first thing I am gonna do when I get home is punch yo' mama right in the mouth !

Best post on this otherwise pointless thread.

[houstonfella]

Other than a new soccer stadium, I'd say around 2030 before a new one of any significance will be built. These things just take enormous amounts of money, public and otherwise. I think Houston is probably one of the top cities with its new facilities. Perhaps we should keep the Houston Sports Association around (if they still are) for long-term future planning. Very long-term. But don't feel bad, Plastic, an interesting subject nevertheless.

[h-townrep]

...these are not Dallas teams. I know a lot of people think the Cowboys and Rangers are Dallas teams-they are not. I always wondered if maybe the city of Dallas just flat-out refused to use public funds to build sports stadiums for bazillionair team owners-if so, it is clearly a lesson Houston could learn from.

Then I guess the Giants and the Jets aren't New York teams since they aren't in New York. Honestly the Rangers ae not a Dallas team, and never was. It's been an Arlington team.

One *small* problem I see is that we're using 30-year bonds to pay for these stadiums that you want every 15 years.

You know we're still paying for Bud Adams' late-80's/early 90's Astrodome expansion...the one that he promised would bring us the Superbowl, and keep him from moving the team. As long as I live I'll curse that man for forcing Harris County to scrap the greatest scoreboard that mankind has ever seen!

It's amazing that the two times we hosted the SuperBowl, they were not at the AstroDome. Rice and reliant

[h-townrep]

some of those stadiums that were listed are 80 years old. they have something called history, and charm, and mystique, and all that crap. that is why they haven't replaced them. It's just too hard to walk away from Fenway Park. It's hard to walk away from Wrigley Field, and Yankee stadium.

30-40 years is the ideal time. A lot changes then.

Look at the cookie cutter stadiums of the 60s and 70s. I'm talking about Busch Stadium, Three Rivers Stadium, Riverfront Stadium, Veterens Stadium, Jack Murphy Stadium, Fulton County Stadium, The Kingdome. They were all the rage. They could be used for football, and baseball.

You fast forward to the mid-90s and these stadiums suck ass compared to Camden Yards, or Jacobs Field.

the owners will figure some way to draw more money from a stadium in 40 years.

Well Tiger Stadium had charm, definitly had History and mystique (Tha natural) and it's now just part of the parking lot for there new stadium. They just kept it until it really started to fall apart.

I say 15 for a fast city and 25 for a slow cityy like Houston. WHile the new arena or stadium opens the old one's still operational. It may even get rennovated. Then we'll have 2 arenas and 2 football stadiums.Then in 15-25 years when the next stadium or arena get's built the original is used less or torn down.

Man, what is a fast city. there is no such thing as a fast city New Orleans was considered the other City that never sleeps and they had no plans in replacing the Super Dome. New York was doing it to lure both a Super Bowl and an Olympics. Man leave tha stuff alone..

[Gary]

Plastic, the first thing I am gonna do when I get home is punch yo' mama right in the mouth !

Your dating yourself TJ. Great Gleason impersonation anyway.

[texas911]

The city should build a new stadium for UH/Dynamos on campus. One of about 35K-40K.

[west20th]

The city should build a new stadium for UH/Dynamos on campus. One of about 35K-40K.

Why? Let the Dynamos build their own.

[TJones]

Your dating yourself TJ. Great Gleason impersonation anyway.

<-------- takes a bow. Thank You...... I'll be here all week, try the veal.

I say 15 for a fast city and 25 for a slow cityy like Houston. WHile the new arena or stadium opens the old one's still operational. It may even get rennovated. Then we'll have 2 arenas and 2 football stadiums.Then in 15-25 years when the next stadium or arena get's built the original is used less or torn down.

Plastic, honestly, how many games have you been to in our NEW stadiums, in the past 5 years ?

[texas911]

Why not build a stadium for the Dynamos? We build one for the Texans, Rockets and Astros. Even though I don't go to any of their games, I'm still funding these arenas.

[west20th]

Why not build a stadium for the Dynamos? We build one for the Texans, Rockets and Astros. Even though I don't go to any of their games, I'm still funding these arenas.

So the Texans, Astros and Rockets screwed us w/o so much as a peck on the cheek we should allow this to continue with the Dynamo's? Someone once said (wish I could remember who) the definition of crazy was doing the same thing over and over, doing it wrong and expecting a different result. As far as I'm concerned the MLS got to the tax-payer funded pig trough too late. The kitchen is CLOSED!

[texas911]

Yea, but it won't just be for the Dynamos, UH would use it too. It would be cost efficient because UH would use it in the fall and the Dynamos would use it in the spring. BTW, did you know Houston paid for Rice Stadium?

[Subdude]

Actually if I'm not mistaken, the kitchen is still open, since the Harris County Sports Authority still exists. There was some talk about winding it down, but nothing came of it. In all fairness, the teams didn't screw us over. Voters did it to themselves. I idea of trying to plan ahead for stadiums makes sense, but it tends to fall by the wayside to political or popular pressure. A good example is the renovation of the Astrodome to keep the Oilers, who then left anyway. The bonds used to pay for the refurbishment are still being paid down, as are the bonds associated with Reliant stadium construction. It doesn't make any financial sense, but the city was anxious to get an NFL team, and that won the day.

[west20th]

Yea, but it won't just be for the Dynamos, UH would use it too. It would be cost efficient because UH would use it in the fall and the Dynamos would use it in the spring. BTW, did you know Houston paid for Rice Stadium?

Who says U of H needs a new stadium? So what if the city paid for Rice stadium? What is your source? I doubt that they did. If the Dynamos need a stadium they can add a ticket surcharge to finance it.

Actually if I'm not mistaken, the kitchen is still open, since the Harris County Sports Authority still exists. There was some talk about winding it down, but nothing came of it. In all fairness, the teams didn't screw us over. Voters did it to themselves. I idea of trying to plan ahead for stadiums makes sense, but it tends to fall by the wayside to political or popular pressure. A good example is the renovation of the Astrodome to keep the Oilers, who then left anyway. The bonds used to pay for the refurbishment are still being paid down, as are the bonds associated with Reliant stadium construction. It doesn't make any financial sense, but the city was anxious to get an NFL team, and that won the day.

I believe the HCSA only had a mandate for the MMP and a football stadium, should the need arise. The Rockets had to go back to the voters to get their venue approved. And like the sheople we are, we approved it. At least it took two times and we improved the deal somewhat. I think the Sports Authority's only job now is to see that the bonds get paid.

Edited April 3, 2006 by west20th

[DJ V Lawrence]

Why? Let the Dynamos build their own.

With what money?

[west20th]

With what money?

Don't know. Not my problem and it shouldn't be the Houston's or an ISD's problem either. A ticket sur-charge maybe. Really I don't care. Just please stop raping the taxpayer (I don't mean you I mean sports franchises in general) to fund private enterprise.

Edited April 3, 2006 by west20th

[Subdude]

Don't know. Not my problem and it shouldn't be the Houston's or an ISD's problem either. A ticket sur-charge maybe. Really I don't care. Just please stop raping the taxpayer to fund private enterprise.

Here is a blog you might like:

FieldofSchemes.com

Is all about team owners and politicians colluding to get public funding for stadiums. It manages to be depressing and funny at the same time.

I'm of two minds about public funding for private enterprises. In theory I don't like the idea, but here on planet earth it happens all the time. Look at the tax incentives San Antonio used to lure Toyota, or Chicago Boeing. The question is if stadiums are really the best economic investment for cities, and there really doesn't seem to be any evidence in that direction. On the other hand, they are almost always popular with the voting public, so it may just be a case of giving the people what they want. In a way, I almost admire the ingenuity of team owners in managing to change the expectation of public funding from an exception to the rule.

[west20th]

Here is a blog you might like:

FieldofSchemes.com

Is all about team owners and politicians colluding to get public funding for stadiums. It manages to be depressing and funny at the same time.

I'm of two minds about public funding for private enterprises. In theory I don't like the idea, but here on planet earth it happens all the time. Look at the tax incentives San Antonio used to lure Toyota, or Chicago Boeing. The question is if stadiums are really the best economic investment for cities, and there really doesn't seem to be any evidence in that direction. On the other hand, they are almost always popular with the voting public, so it may just be a case of giving the people what they want. In a way, I almost admire the ingenuity of team owners in managing to change the expectation of public funding from an exception to the rule.

As far as tax-breaks for private business. That is fine. Leave some tax revenue on the table that normally won't be generated anyway if a company or plant doesn't set up shop in your town. But I don't believe Toyota or Boeing ever asked any one to build their facilities for them.

Edited April 3, 2006 by west20th

[DJ V Lawrence]

As far as tax-breaks for private business. That is fine. Leave some tax revenue on the table that normally won't be generated anyway if a company or plant doesn't set up shop in your town. But I don't believe Toyota or Boeing ever asked any one to build their facilities for them.

Playing devil's advocate, Toyota or Boeing doesn't advertise Houston (like Houston Toyota or Houston Boeing). They would claim it gives the city recognition and advertisements for other big revenue-making events to come to the city.

If the city decided it didn't like a sports team, simply don't fund money for the stadium, and the team will move to another city. No biggie. The Oilers did that. We didn't want to support Bud Adams, and didn't like his deal. But you can't expect a franchise to stay in a city that wouldn't help fund their facility if another city is willing to. And a lot of cities are willing to do that for that kind of recognition.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Playing devil's advocate, Toyota or Boeing doesn't advertise Houston (like Houston Toyota or Houston Boeing). They would claim it gives the city recognition and advertisements for other big revenue-making events to come to the city.

If the city decided it didn't like a sports team, simply don't fund money for the stadium, and the team will move to another city. No biggie. The Oilers did that. We didn't want to support Bud Adams, and didn't like his deal. But you can't expect a franchise to stay in a city that wouldn't help fund their facility if another city is willing to. And a lot of cities are willing to do that for that kind of recognition.

Exibit A:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3768934.html

[texas911]

I'm in it for selfish reasons. I would love for UH to have a new stadium. Everyone beats up on UH but the city of Houston should really try and embrace UH for what it is, a world class research institution which brings in a lot of money and smart people to Houston. When I went to school there, lots of people were from out of town or out of the country and a lot of them stayed to work in Houston. What other industry does that for the city? Plus how great is it that we have a Univeristy like UH in our city?

[Guest Plastic]

First of all Football,Basketball,and Baseball are not that great pf sports.

Soccer,Race Cars,and Hockey will be huge are the big games.

We need a stadium for the soccer team, a race track, and an NHL team.

[west20th]

First of all Football,Basketball,and Baseball are not that great pf sports.

Soccer,Race Cars,and Hockey will be huge are the big games.

We need a stadium for the soccer team, a race track, and an NHL team.

Translation please.

[YakuzaIce]

Translation please.

I think he means something to the effect that Football, Basketball, and Baseball are not big [professional; personal foul??] sports. Not sure why he says that.

First of all soccer, it is not nearly as big in the US as it is in other countries. Thus most of the US stadiums are usually substantially smaller. Second, what type of racing are you talking about? I am not all that familiar with this area, so bear with me. I believe there are about 100 or so Nascar races per year. Of course the majority of these would not be held in Houston. This is a little bit similar to football where only 8 games (I think) are held at home, but they do usually have higher capacities/attendance than some other sports. As for hockey, it is already held at Toyota Center.

Also if we were to go by number of games:

Baseball: 162

Basketball: 82

Hockey: 82

Soccer: 28

Football: 16

So if you were to go by number of games (which shouldn't be the only thing to look at). Baseball and Basketball are at the top (which aren't the big games apparently, though I guess it is true attendance is lower than some, but the number of games makes up for it to a degree). Then there is hockey which is supposedly a big game, but if held in a basketball arena it usually has less capacity. Next is soccer which has a relatively low number of games, and most of the soccer specific stadiums are in the 20k range for capacity (in the US). Last is football, which though it has the lowest number of games, it usually has the highest capacity of these five.

I think I probably wasted my time writing this, and Plastic will probably just say he meant something else. I guess the best answer would be for Plastic to be slightly more coherent in his posts.

[brijonmang]

the bottom line is football, baseball, and basketball are AMERICAS top sports...NASCAR draws huge crowds but the major races are only held at individual race tracks a couple times a year...the big sports economically justify big stadiums cuz they make the best profits...

[DJ V Lawrence]

the bottom line is football, baseball, and basketball are AMERICAS top sports...NASCAR draws huge crowds but the major races are only held at individual race tracks a couple times a year...the big sports economically justify big stadiums cuz they make the best profits...

Soccer's the biggest sport in the world. And the world's bigger than America.

[brijonmang]

i know that trust me but i said here in AMERICA...its a second tier sport here...hopefully more americans will watch the world cup this year because i think soccer is a great sport to watch and play