Opinions on property taxes?

[forereal]

I

[TheNiche]

I

[RedScare]

Homestead exemptions also discount a portion of your homes tax value. Only a house that you do not live in will qualify for the top tax rate. The best way to figure out the tax is to look up the property on the appraisal district website www.hcad.org for Harris County, and click on the tax link. This will show all taxes except school tax. HISD also has a website to check school taxes, but an easy way to calculate is to just double the hcad tax figure. You'll be close.

As an example, my property taxes are almost 25% less than the non-homestead rates.

[editor]

From where are you moving?

[forereal]

From where are you moving?

California. And I do know a 600K house in California would be the same property taxes as a Texas 200k house but California is known as expensive.

[forereal]

Homestead exemptions also discount a portion of your homes tax value. Only a house that you do not live in will qualify for the top tax rate. The best way to figure out the tax is to look up the property on the appraisal district website www.hcad.org for Harris County, and click on the tax link. This will show all taxes except school tax. HISD also has a website to check school taxes, but an easy way to calculate is to just double the hcad tax figure. You'll be close.

As an example, my property taxes are almost 25% less than the non-homestead rates.

Thanks for the link. I took a look and was able to look up a few properties to get an idea of how much taxes will be.. But i'm not sure if I understand it totally. Here are two examples

Taxing Jurisdiction Exemption Taxable Value Tax Rate Taxes

Harris County 0 374,500 0.39986 $1,497.48

Harris County Flood Control Dist 0 374,500 0.03322 $124.41

Port of Houston Authority 0 374,500 0.01474 $55.20

Harris County Hospital District 0 374,500 0.19216 $719.64

Harris County Dept. of Education 0 374,500 0.00629 $23.56

Houston Community College System 0 374,500 0.095769 $358.65

City of Houston 0 374,500 0.6475 $2,424.89

Total 2005 Taxes Due by January 31, 2006

$5,203.83

Payments applied to 2005 taxes

$5,203.83

Total Current Taxes Due

$0.00

Prior year(s) taxes due (if any) $0.00

TOTAL AMOUNT DUE

http://www.hctax.net/propertytax/current/2...t=0331930000019

So was it only 5203.83 for a house appraised value at 374,500?

here is another one.

Taxing Jurisdiction Exemption Taxable Value Tax Rate Taxes

Harris County 51,240 204,960 0.39986 $819.55

Harris County Flood Control Dist 51,240 204,960 0.03322 $68.09

Port of Houston Authority 51,240 204,960 0.01474 $30.21

Harris County Hospital District 51,240 204,960 0.19216 $393.85

Harris County Dept. of Education 51,240 204,960 0.00629 $12.89

Houston Community College System 25,620 230,580 0.095769 $220.82

City of Houston 51,240 204,960 0.6475 $1,327.12

Total 2005 Taxes Due by January 31, 2006

$2,872.53

Payments applied to 2005 taxes

$2,872.53

Total Current Taxes Due

$0.00

Prior year(s) taxes due (if any) $0.00

TOTAL AMOUNT DUE $0.00

http://www.hctax.net/propertytax/current/2...t=1178670010008

It seems like it is only 2872.53 for a house appraised at 204,960

Am I reading this right? Because that is not close to 3%

Both are for Harris county

Edited March 28, 2006 by forereal

[RedScare]

You must look to see what the exemption is. A homestead exemption applies if you live in the home. In your 2 examples, it appears there is no exemption. If you add in school taxes of roughly $5,200, your total tax on this house would be about $10,500. However, if YOU buy it and live in it, the taxes will be closer to $7,500 or so, because you get the homestead exemption.

Now, the 2nd example appears to be a $256,000 house WITH a homestead exemption. The exemption in the first column is subtracted from the home's tax appraisal to get the taxable value for that government district. Note, not all exemptions are the same. Your taxes, plus school taxes will be roughly $5800 on a $256,000 house.

Not great, but still less than 3%.

[forereal]

You must look to see what the exemption is. A homestead exemption applies if you live in the home. In your 2 examples, it appears there is no exemption. If you add in school taxes of roughly $5,200, your total tax on this house would be about $10,500. However, if YOU buy it and live in it, the taxes will be closer to $7,500 or so, because you get the homestead exemption.

Now, the 2nd example appears to be a $256,000 house WITH a homestead exemption. The exemption in the first column is subtracted from the home's tax appraisal to get the taxable value for that government district. Note, not all exemptions are the same. Your taxes, plus school taxes will be roughly $5800 on a $256,000 house.

Not great, but still less than 3%.

Thanks. I got it now. Does it say anywhere where the school taxes are? How do you get $5800?

[Orikal]

Thanks. I got it now. Does it say anywhere where the school taxes are? How do you get $5800?

If it's in HISD: https://actweb.acttax.com/act_webdev/hisd/taxsearch.jsp

[forereal]

If it's in HISD: https://actweb.acttax.com/act_webdev/hisd/taxsearch.jsp

I couldn't seem to find it. I am still only seeing what I posted above but I do not see anything about school taxes.

[RedScare]

I couldn't seem to find it. I am still only seeing what I posted above but I do not see anything about school taxes.

If you are typing an address in the website that Orikal listed, you are looking at the school taxes. Add that to the figure from www.hcad.org to arrive at your total tax bill. Don't forget to look to see if the homestead exemption is included in the figure. On the HISD tax site, "HOM" stands for homestead exemption.

[HoustonMidtown]

I actually sold my townhome because the property taxes became outrageous.....each year my appraisal went up and up went my taxes. I fought them every year at the Appraisal District (and actually won one year), but they usually denied me....the appraisals are ridiculous - my townhome was appraised at 389,000 when my neighbors identical, attached townhome appraised for 199,000 (I wonder if they knew someone at the appraisal district!!)...they seem to pull numbers out of a hat...

[wendyps]

My sister (Oregon) and I ran some numbers...it is actually cheaper overall for me because she has such a high state income tax. You gotta pay the tax man sometime

[jm1fd]

My sister (Oregon) and I ran some numbers...it is actually cheaper overall for me because she has such a high state income tax. You gotta pay the tax man sometime

I thought Oregon had zero sales tax....did you factor TX sales tax in?

[TheNiche]

I actually sold my townhome because the property taxes became outrageous.....each year my appraisal went up and up went my taxes. I fought them every year at the Appraisal District (and actually won one year), but they usually denied me....the appraisals are ridiculous - my townhome was appraised at 389,000 when my neighbors identical, attached townhome appraised for 199,000 (I wonder if they knew someone at the appraisal district!!)...they seem to pull numbers out of a hat...

I take it that you did not realize that you can protest your property taxes and get them lowered way below what its really worth, right? Or for that matter, there are firms that specialize in fighting the appraisals for you, and they'd just take a cut of whatever they'd saved you. Its a simple process, though. Sure as hell isn't worth selling anything over.

[west20th]

Heeeelp!!!! Need your advice.

Some questions I have:

1. I live in a new development in the the Heights of 12 houses. All of the houses should be comparably valued but in HCAD's wisdom there is a 200K range in appraisals, my appraisal is at the high end. Of course I will protest. Any advice?

2. I have had a firm suggested to me to do my appraisal protest on my behalf. Basically, their fee is 1/2 of what they save you. Anyone had experience w/firms that offer this service? Does 1/2 of the tax savings sound like a reasonable fee?

This whole thing is really stressful. Any advice you may all have will truly be welcome.

[HoustonMidtown]

I take it that you did not realize that you can protest your property taxes and get them lowered way below what its really worth, right? Or for that matter, there are firms that specialize in fighting the appraisals for you, and they'd just take a cut of whatever they'd saved you. Its a simple process, though. Sure as hell isn't worth selling anything over.

Um....as I said in my post - I fought it every year - only won once....it isn't that easy....

[HeightsGuy]

Heeeelp!!!! Need your advice.

Some questions I have:

1. I live in a new development in the the Heights of 12 houses. All of the houses should be comparably valued but in HCAD's wisdom there is a 200K range in appraisals, my appraisal is at the high end. Of course I will protest. Any advice?

2. I have had a firm suggested to me to do my appraisal protest on my behalf. Basically, their fee is 1/2 of what they save you. Anyone had experience w/firms that offer this service? Does 1/2 of the tax savings sound like a reasonable fee?

This whole thing is really stressful. Any advice you may all have will truly be welcome.

West20th, is your value set at the price you paid for it, or, if it's your second year, is it 10% higher than that? If your in the first year, you should be able to protest (and win) that the price you paid for it should be the appraised value. If it's the second year and it went up 10%, good luck. I think everyone in the Heights has been hit with 10% increases the past few years. You might be able to get it down a bit, but they are smart, they know the Heights has exploded in the past few years, and if your market value is 10s of thousands over your appraised (as mine has been since I live in an older house and the land has risen dramatically vs the structure), you might not get anything back.

In my case a few years ago, I bought from the original owners (circa 1950), and in the first year the appraised value jumped 100,000. But the jump was 20k over what I paid for it. I successfully argued that the appraised value in my first year should be the price I paid for it. I won and got the appraised value back to the sale price. Since then they have hit me with 10% increases, and I lost last year.

[west20th]

West20th, is your value set at the price you paid for it, or, if it's your second year, is it 10% higher than that?

Nope. The appraisals have no basis in reality whatsoever. HCAD just has no clue. On the tax records (I checked all records for all the new houses in my complex that were built and sold at various times in '04) they have incorrect square foot ages, lot sizes and number of rooms. Some even have incorrect zip codes. Here is the worst example. The first house in the complex is identical to the 10th house in every way. Same floor plan, lot size, builder and year built. The first house is appraised at $172,000 less than the 10th house. A house identical to mine down the street is appraised $80,000 less than mine. My appraisal is $70,000 more than the sales price.

When I protest are HCAD appraised values acceptable arguments? Or does HCAD only accept sales prices for protest arguments.

[wendyps]

I thought Oregon had zero sales tax....did you factor TX sales tax in?

hmmmmm, nope, must admit, that did not come near our equation

[HeightsGuy]

Nope. The appraisals have no basis in reality whatsoever. HCAD just has no clue. On the tax records (I checked all records for all the new houses in my complex that were built and sold at various times in '04) they have incorrect square foot ages, lot sizes and number of rooms. Some even have incorrect zip codes. Here is the worst example. The first house in the complex is identical to the 10th house in every way. Same floor plan, lot size, builder and year built. The first house is appraised at $172,000 less than the 10th house. A house identical to mine down the street is appraised $80,000 less than mine. My appraisal is $70,000 more than the sales price.

When I protest are HCAD appraised values acceptable arguments? Or does HCAD only accept sales prices for protest arguments.

Well, it sounds like HCAD got one over on some of you guys. HCAD may not get it right, but if you have a legitimate protest that they are "able" to fix, they will. Sounds like a lot of the people in the complex should have protested their original valuation in '05. It's a little late to be crying the next year. You can, however, use that in your defense on this year's evaluation.

HCAD not the enemy. When you sit down for the protest meeting they are helpful and very easy to work with. You can speak to them using English (by which I mean you don't need to know lawyer talk) and they will respond in kind. If I were you, I would take your deed with you to show what you paid for it and protest that that should have been last year's value. Then, add 10% to that value and say that's what this years value would have been if everything happened the way it should have last year. You might have a shot at getting your appreciation set at 0% this year. And next year, do the exact same thing. In a couple of years you make up that $70,000 difference.

Of course, I am not a laywer nor do I represent myself to be, I am only giving you what I did and an idea of what you could do.

By the way, HCAD gets those numbers from the builder. HCAD doesn't have the resources to verify every item given to them.

Edited March 30, 2006 by HeightsGuy

[west20th]

Well, it sounds like HCAD got one over on some of you guys. HCAD may not get it right, but if you have a legitimate protest that they are "able" to fix, they will. Sounds like a lot of the people in the complex should have protested their original valuation in '05. It's a little late to be crying the next year. You can, however, use that in your defense on this year's evaluation.

HCAD not the enemy. When you sit down for the protest meeting they are helpful and very easy to work with. You can speak to them using English (by which I mean you don't need to know lawyer talk) and they will respond in kind. If I were you, I would take your deed with you to show what you paid for it and protest that that should have been last year's value. Then, add 10% to that value and say that's what this years value would have been if everything happened the way it should have last year. You might have a shot at getting your appreciation set at 0% this year. And next year, do the exact same thing. In a couple of years you make up that $70,000 difference.

Of course, I am not a laywer nor do I represent myself to be, I am only giving you what I did and an idea of what you could do.

By the way, HCAD gets those numbers from the builder. HCAD doesn't have the resources to verify every item given to them.

We can still protest '05 evaluation because taxes for '05 have not been billed yet and the appraisal from HCAD for '05 just came in. We have until 05/06 to protest the '05 evaluation. Why they are just now getting around to the '05 evaluation? Who knows?

And as far as HCAD getting numbers from the builder. Not in this case. They wouldn't be so far off and inconsistent. Frankly it looks like they got no info, had no one to get the info and are just pulling #'s out of their butts. How else can one explain the roller coaster of evaluations amongst houses that are basically all worth the same?

Edited March 30, 2006 by west20th

[HeightsGuy]

We can still protest '05 evaluation because taxes for '05 have not been billed yet and the appraisal from HCAD for '05 just came in. We have until 05/06 to protest the '05 evaluation. Why they are just now getting around to the '05 evaluation? Who knows?

And as far as HCAD getting numbers from the builder. Not in this case. They wouldn't be so far off and inconsistent. Frankly it looks like they got no info, had no one to get the info and are just pulling #'s out of their butts. How else can one explain the roller coaster of evaluations amongst houses that are basically all worth the same?

??

Guide to Understanding the Property Tax Process

January 1 marks the beginning of property appraisal. What a property is used for on January 1, market conditions at that time, and who owns the property on that date determine whether the property is taxed, its value, qualifications for exemptions, and who is responsible for paying the tax.

Between January 1 and April 30, the appraisal district processes applications for tax exemptions, agricultural and timber appraisals, and other tax relief. Around May 15, the appraisal review board begins hearing protests from property owners who believe their property values are incorrect, or who feel they were improperly denied an exemption or agricultural/timber appraisal. The ARB is an independent panel of citizens responsible for handling protests about the appraisal district's work. When the ARB finishes its work, the chief appraiser gives each taxing unit a list of taxable property known as the appraisal roll.

Usually in September or October, the elected officials of each taxing unit adopt tax rates for their operations and debt payments. Typically, each property is taxed by several taxing units. For example, every property in Harris County is taxed by both the county and a school district. Taxes may also be payable to a city or special district, including such entities as municipal utility districts, rural fire protection districts, junior college districts, and others.

Tax collection starts in October and November as tax bills go out. Taxpayers have until January 31 of the following year to pay their taxes. On February 1, penalty and interest charges begin accumulating on most unpaid tax bills. Taxing units may start legal action to collect unpaid property taxes once they become delinquent.

Edited March 30, 2006 by HeightsGuy

[west20th]

??

Guide to Understanding the Property Tax Process

January 1 marks the beginning of property appraisal. What a property is used for on January 1, market conditions at that time, and who owns the property on that date determine whether the property is taxed, its value, qualifications for exemptions, and who is responsible for paying the tax.

Between January 1 and April 30, the appraisal district processes applications for tax exemptions, agricultural and timber appraisals, and other tax relief. Around May 15, the appraisal review board begins hearing protests from property owners who believe their property values are incorrect, or who feel they were improperly denied an exemption or agricultural/timber appraisal. The ARB is an independent panel of citizens responsible for handling protests about the appraisal district's work. When the ARB finishes its work, the chief appraiser gives each taxing unit a list of taxable property known as the appraisal roll.

Usually in September or October, the elected officials of each taxing unit adopt tax rates for their operations and debt payments. Typically, each property is taxed by several taxing units. For example, every property in Harris County is taxed by both the county and a school district. Taxes may also be payable to a city or special district, including such entities as municipal utility districts, rural fire protection districts, junior college districts, and others.

Tax collection starts in October and November as tax bills go out. Taxpayers have until January 31 of the following year to pay their taxes. On February 1, penalty and interest charges begin accumulating on most unpaid tax bills. Taxing units may start legal action to collect unpaid property taxes once they become delinquent.

Thanks for the info but obviously HCAD see the above scheduling as optional, on their part anyway.

1. Taxation must be equal and uniform. All property must be valued and taxed in an equal and uniform manner. This provision, which is an equity standard, helps ensure that no single property or type of property pays more than its fair share of taxes.

I went to the link you provied (thank you) and found the above constitutional right. Am I making the correct assumption that the house down the street which is comparable to mine (less about 100SF) and is valued by HCAD at about 70K under market value can be used as a basis to argue my valuation? Sort of the argument, "you say the almost identical house is worth n dollars how can you say my house is worth n + many thousands? These houses are comparable and I want my valuation the same as theirs". Valid argument, no?

Edited March 30, 2006 by west20th

[HeightsGuy]

Thanks for the info but obviously HCAD see the above scheduling as optional, on their part anyway.

1. Taxation must be equal and uniform. All property must be valued and taxed in an equal and uniform manner. This provision, which is an equity standard, helps ensure that no single property or type of property pays more than its fair share of taxes.

I went to the link you provied (thank you) and found the above constitutional right. Am I making the correct assumption that the house down the street which is comparable to mine (less about 100SF) and is valued by HCAD at about 70K under market value can be used as a basis to argue my valuation? Sort of the argument, "you say the almost identical house is worth n dollars how can you say my house is worth n + many thousands? These houses are comparable and I want my valuation the same as theirs". Valid argument, no?

Completely valid arguments as long as you're comparing apples to apples, ie. built around the same time, etc. But, and this is a big but, there are a few bylaws in the code that trump the "equal and uniform" thing. The first trump card is that whenever a house is sold, if the sale price is above the current appraised value, the new appraised value becomes the sale price. So, if you bought the house used for $70,000 more than the other person down the street paid for their house 2 years ago, you're no longer comparing apples to apples. The second trump card is the 10% thing, meaning no property can be appraised at more than 10% higher than the previous year. That is why the shacks remain around the mansions. People ask how can they stay since they must be taxed out of the market. The truth is they aren't getting taxed out of the market. My house was built in 1950, since I bought it the appraisal is now over $200,000 in Shady Acres. My next door neighbors have lived there since 1970. Their house is almost the exact same as mine but appraised at $85,000. Since Shady Acres exploded just a few years ago, the appraisals haven't caught up yet for long time residents and won't for a number of years.

Put both those trump cards into practice and you see how things can be so wildly different in a hot real-estate market like the inner-loop and Heights.

Edited March 30, 2006 by HeightsGuy

[west20th]

Completely valid arguments as long as you're comparing apples to apples, ie. built around the same time, etc. But, and this is a big but, there are a few bylaws in the code that trump the "equal and uniform" thing. The first trump card is that whenever a house is sold, if the sale price is above the current appraised value, the new appraised value becomes the sale price. So, if you bought the house used for $70,000 more than the other person down the street paid for their house 2 years ago, you're no longer comparing apples to apples. The second trump card is the 10% thing, meaning no property can be appraised at more than 10% higher than the previous year. That is why the shacks remain around the mansions. People ask how can they stay since they must be taxed out of the market. The truth is they aren't getting taxed out of the market. My house was built in 1950, since I bought it the appraisal is now over $200,000 in Shady Acres. My next door neighbors have lived there since 1970. Their house is almost the exact same as mine but appraised at $85,000. Since Shady Acres exploded just a few years ago, the appraisals haven't caught up yet for long time residents and won't for a number of years.

Put both those trump cards into practice and you see how things can be so wildly different in a hot real-estate market like the inner-loop and Heights.

Oh well, that pretty much sets the price. I have the warranty deed which states the selling price and I expect they could add 10% if they wish since the house was bought in '04 and we are talking '05 valuation. I don't understand why HCAD is making this so difficult. They have a copy of my warranty deed (given when I applied for my homestead ex.) so they know what the house sold for in '04. They seem to be making an art out of what should be an easy, cut and dry valuation.

Thanks for your help.....

[west20th]

Oh well, that pretty much sets the price. I have the warranty deed which states the selling price and I expect they could add 10% if they wish since the house was bought in '04 and we are talking '05 valuation. I don't understand why HCAD is making this so difficult. They have a copy of my warranty deed (given when I applied for my homestead ex.) so they know what the house sold for in '04. They seem to be making an art out of what should be an easy, cut and dry valuation.

Thanks for your help.....

One thing though. The house that was undervalued (sold for about 215K, HCAD valued 146K) sold about the same time as mine. So in that case it's not a matter of a home catching up with the valuation.

[jm1fd]

When I protest are HCAD appraised values acceptable arguments? Or does HCAD only accept sales prices for protest arguments.

Appraised values are OK, but real sales data is the best. Find a realtor and see if you can get sales data for the comps. That should be an unassailable way of establishing value.

The second trump card is the 10% thing, meaning no property can be appraised at more than 10% higher than the previous year.

The above is true only if you have a homestead exemption. If not, then the sky's the limit.

[HeightsGuy]

Appraised values are OK, but real sales data is the best. Find a realtor and see if you can get sales data for the comps. That should be an unassailable way of establishing value.

I would say that's true except in a hot market like the Heights. Houses there routinely have a much higher realtor appraised value than the county's which can be hampered by the 10% thing. You don't want to go showing that kind of data at your protest. At the same time I won my protest and got the value brought back to the sale price, similar homes in my area were selling 50k over that.

Case in point:

2001 W 14th HCAD 2005 Appraised Value $138,569

2001 W 14th for sale price $295,000

Edited March 31, 2006 by HeightsGuy

[jm1fd]

I would say that's true except in a hot market like the Heights. Houses there routinely have a much higher realtor appraised value than the county's which can be hampered by the 10% thing. You don't want to go showing that kind of data at your protest. At the same time I won my protest and got the value brought back to the sale price, similar homes in my area were selling 50k over that.

Case in point:

2001 W 14th HCAD 2005 Appraised Value $138,569

2001 W 14th for sale price $295,000

Well of course you don't show something if it doesn't bolster your case, but if what he's saying is true, that his appraised value is just SOOOOOOOO out of touch with reality, then reality (actual sales data) is the best tool.

Looks to me that you cited a listing, not the data from the actual sale above. Don't know what it is worth until it is actually sold. You can ask for $1 meeelion dollars, but it isn't worth that unless somebody will buy it at that price.